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Thread: BBC bias again?

  1. #91
    @hibs.net private member ronaldo7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthsideHarp_Bhoy View Post
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    I dont think youd trust them either, but thats because you dont like them and are looking for reasons to justify that stance.

    I would bet a good amount of money that the BBC run more stories from scottish govt news releases than any other political party. It wouldnt even surprise me if theuy ran more from the SG than all other parties combined.
    I don't trust them because they're not impartial. Simples.

    If you could supply some stats to back up your case on which and how many stories they've run for the SG I'd be interested, otherwise I wouldn't bother betting on it.


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  3. #92
    @hibs.net private member ronaldo7's Avatar
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    Carrie Gracie on BBC pay..." I no longer trust my bosses to give an accurate answer".

    https://t.co/h6g7fOi9WM


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    Quote Originally Posted by ronaldo7 View Post
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    I don't trust them because they're not impartial. Simples.

    If you could supply some stats to back up your case on which and how many stories they've run for the SG I'd be interested, otherwise I wouldn't bother betting on it.

    In your, incredibly biased opinion, im sure they arent.

    No. Im not making a case here, you are. The BBC may well be biased, but the stuff you have linked to doesnt come close to proving it im afraid.

    And both the tories, and labour accuse the BBC of being biased too, as do both remainers and brexiters.They cant all be right.

    Maybe people just confuse stories they dont like because they challenge their world view or attack their side, with being biased and thats what drives perception?

    The same way that fitba fans always think refs / media have it in for their team (see the weekly BBC bias thread on main board about their anti-hibs bias).

  5. #94
    @hibs.net private member Golden Fleece's Avatar
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    The Ambulance srevice response to the FOI

    http://www.scottishambulance.com/The...rs.aspx?ID=987

    According to the BBC 10,000 such ambulances had been despatched between 2013/14 and 2016/17. In every single broadcast the same phrase was used: "Paramedics were sent on their own to 2,204 emergency call-outs in 2016/17, according to figures obtained by the Scottish Conservatives."





    • BBC Scotland withheld the fact that the figures were the result of a FOI request.
    • BBC Scotland ran a four month old FOI request at a time of maximum benefit to the Conservative party and presented the figures as though only recently obtained.
    • Every BBC Scotland headline/intro presented the figures as though a failing, despite the most recent figures being the second best on record and an improvement of over one third on the previous year.
    • BBC Scotland omitted the following highly relevant part of the Scottish Ambulance Service response from all of its news bulletins. “A single crew will be sent to an incident if they are the closest resource to provide a patient with immediate care, but they will always be backed up by a double crew.”






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  6. #95
    Private Members Prediction League Winner Hibrandenburg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Golden Fleece View Post
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    The Ambulance srevice response to the FOI

    http://www.scottishambulance.com/The...rs.aspx?ID=987

    According to the BBC 10,000 such ambulances had been despatched between 2013/14 and 2016/17. In every single broadcast the same phrase was used: "Paramedics were sent on their own to 2,204 emergency call-outs in 2016/17, according to figures obtained by the Scottish Conservatives."





    • BBC Scotland withheld the fact that the figures were the result of a FOI request.
    • BBC Scotland ran a four month old FOI request at a time of maximum benefit to the Conservative party and presented the figures as though only recently obtained.
    • Every BBC Scotland headline/intro presented the figures as though a failing, despite the most recent figures being the second best on record and an improvement of over one third on the previous year.
    • BBC Scotland omitted the following highly relevant part of the Scottish Ambulance Service response from all of its news bulletins. ďA single crew will be sent to an incident if they are the closest resource to provide a patient with immediate care, but they will always be backed up by a double crew.Ē






    BREAKING NEWS: TOBY YOUNG RESIGNS



    When I read the whole story it was clear that it was a non story. There's many countries that use the "First Responder" system that sends single paramedics to calls as a first response to an emergency call, mainly on motorbikes with the aim to assist as quickly as possible and free up ambulances if possible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg View Post
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    When I read the whole story it was clear that it was a non story. There's many countries that use the "First Responder" system that sends single paramedics to calls as a first response to an emergency call, mainly on motorbikes with the aim to assist as quickly as possible and free up ambulances if possible.
    I have to admit i thought that was fairly normal too. But there is no doubt ambulance service is under pressure, i know of someone who had to wait 4 hours for an ambulance over the christmas period.

    But anyway, it may well be a crap story, in which case the BBC could be accused of running a crap story, but they habe space to fill and it was probably a very slow news day.

    It also seems from Golden Fleece's comments that they clearly identified the story came from the tory party, so i dont see that its done anything wrong, apart from running a pretty weak story.

  8. #97
    @hibs.net private member ronaldo7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthsideHarp_Bhoy View Post
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    In your, incredibly biased opinion, im sure they arent.

    No. Im not making a case here, you are. The BBC may well be biased, but the stuff you have linked to doesnt come close to proving it im afraid.

    And both the tories, and labour accuse the BBC of being biased too, as do both remainers and brexiters.They cant all be right.

    Maybe people just confuse stories they dont like because they challenge their world view or attack their side, with being biased and thats what drives perception?

    The same way that fitba fans always think refs / media have it in for their team (see the weekly BBC bias thread on main board about their anti-hibs bias).
    You only have to go through the thread to see the evidence provided by many posters.

    Some cracking posts.


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  9. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by SouthsideHarp_Bhoy View Post
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    I have to admit i thought that was fairly normal too. But there is no doubt ambulance service is under pressure, i know of someone who had to wait 4 hours for an ambulance over the christmas period.

    But anyway, it may well be a crap story, in which case the BBC could be accused of running a crap story, but they habe space to fill and it was probably a very slow news day.

    It also seems from Golden Fleece's comments that they clearly identified the story came from the tory party, so i dont see that its done anything wrong, apart from running a pretty weak story.
    Its the culmulative affect of having run so many weak stories, that fuels the growing perception of unbalance in their output.

  10. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by SouthsideHarp_Bhoy View Post
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    In your, incredibly biased opinion, im sure they arent.

    No. Im not making a case here, you are. The BBC may well be biased, but the stuff you have linked to doesnt come close to proving it im afraid.

    And both the tories, and labour accuse the BBC of being biased too, as do both remainers and brexiters.They cant all be right.

    Maybe people just confuse stories they dont like because they challenge their world view or attack their side, with being biased and thats what drives perception?

    The same way that fitba fans always think refs / media have it in for their team (see the weekly BBC bias thread on main board about their anti-hibs bias).
    I don't think that's true. The UK BBC has always had a pretty clear "liberal" (in the American sense) bias and more recently an obvious pro-Remain bias. Both of these are fine by me but they are no less obvious. Similarly, the North British BBC has an unmissable pro-Union bias. I'm not so keen on that one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kavinho View Post
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    Its the culmulative affect of having run so many weak stories, that fuels the growing perception of unbalance in their output.
    Perhaps, but this thread is only hearing from one side, who all have a similar viee and then all congratulate one another when they post something that they see as confirming that shared view.

    How many weak stories are picked up from the scottish government?

    Also, the SNP / SG will rightly be criticised more, because that is what happens to governments. Opposition attack them, and media run it because the media love negativity and negative stories. Thats the system working as it is supposed to.

    Its like complaining that FMQs are biased because the government doesnt get to ask any questions.

    And as i said above, all sides accuse the BBC of bias against them - by definition, most of them must be wrong.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens View Post
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    I don't think that's true. The UK BBC has always had a pretty clear "liberal" (in the American sense) bias and more recently an obvious pro-Remain bias. Both of these are fine by me but they are no less obvious. Similarly, the North British BBC has an unmissable pro-Union bias. I'm not so keen on that one.
    So its biased against conservatives then? But that bias only exists up until the border, where it switches to being biased for the tories and labour? I wonder who BBC Wales are biasdd in favour of?

    Tories in england will regularly complain of the woolly BBC, yet labour supporters habe run a campaign against some of their key political journos for being bias to the tories. Seems incongruous to me.

    Maybe the BBC is biased, maybe it isnt, i certainly couldnt say for sure. Individuals within it will ceetainly have a particular view of course. Like (former?) leader of the Yes campaign Blair Jenkins, who was previously a senior news guy at the BBCS (possibly its editor?)

    But does it not seem a bit unwholesome , not to mention churlish, to use that accusation to try and discredit any news story that doesnt suit a particular agenda that you happen to support. In fact, its straight out of the Brexit / Trump book of shooting the messenger.

    At least Alastair Campbell's tactics were to rebut the story, not the publisher.
    Last edited by SouthsideHarp_Bhoy; 09-01-2018 at 11:08 AM.

  13. #102
    @hibs.net private member johnbc70's Avatar
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    We should all know the rules by now.

    If you perceive the organisation in question agrees with your stance or viewpoint = not biased.

    If you perceive the organisation in question does not agree with your stance or viewpoint = biased beyond belief, how come everyone else cannot see it.

  14. #103
    Quote Originally Posted by johnbc70 View Post
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    We should all know the rules by now.

    If you perceive the organisation in question agrees with your stance or viewpoint = not biased.

    If you perceive the organisation in question does not agree with your stance or viewpoint = biased beyond belief, how come everyone else cannot see it.
    As I said above, I mostly agree with the UK BBC stances but I can still see they're biased.

    Fwiw, I think the issue is the lack of diversity in the pool they draw their journalists from rather than anything more sinister.

  15. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnbc70 View Post
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    We should all know the rules by now.

    If you perceive the organisation in question agrees with your stance or viewpoint = not biased.

    If you perceive the organisation in question does not agree with your stance or viewpoint = biased beyond belief, how come everyone else cannot see it.
    If you applied that rationale to every piece of information you hear or see, you'd believe absolutely everything you were fed, especially if it's something you disagreed with!
    Propaganda isn't some abstract conspiracy theory,its part of every society.

  16. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by SouthsideHarp_Bhoy View Post
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    So its biased against conservatives then? But that bias only exists up until the border, where it switches to being biased for the tories and labour? I wonder who BBC Wales are biasdd in favour of?

    Tories in england will regularly complain of the woolly BBC, yet labour supporters habe run a campaign against some of their key political journos for being bias to the tories. Seems incongruous to me.
    BBC journalists tend to be Oxbridge educated metropolitan liberals, the sort of demographic that is heavily pro-remain and centre to softish left, definitely pro-establishment and gets the heeby jeebies from the Corbynites.

    To pick something obvious - would anyone for a moment dispute that BBC output is pro the royal family?

  17. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens View Post
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    BBC journalists tend to be Oxbridge educated metropolitan liberals, the sort of demographic that is heavily pro-remain and centre to softish left, definitely pro-establishment and gets the heeby jeebies from the Corbynites.

    To pick something obvious - would anyone for a moment dispute that BBC output is pro the royal family?
    To be fair, so is the majority of Britain...unfortunately.

  18. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by Future17 View Post
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    To be fair, so is the majority of Britain...unfortunately.
    Absolutely. I'm just trying to make the point that the BBC (and any other media outlet) has biases. Some are just a bit more in your face than others.

  19. #108
    @hibs.net private member McD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronaldo7 View Post
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    I don't trust them because they're not impartial. Simples.

    If you could supply some stats to back up your case on which and how many stories they've run for the SG I'd be interested, otherwise I wouldn't bother betting on it.

    Fair enough - out of curiosity, is Wings Over Scotland unbiased, or do you not trust them?



    Just joshing, you are very honest about where your political views lie 😊

  20. #109
    @hibs.net private member JimBHibees's Avatar
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    There was a research study done by ne of the universities in Scotland which clearly outlined an anti snp bias during the Indy ref was there not.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens View Post
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    BBC journalists tend to be Oxbridge educated metropolitan liberals, the sort of demographic that is heavily pro-remain and centre to softish left, definitely pro-establishment and gets the heeby jeebies from the Corbynites.

    To pick something obvious - would anyone for a moment dispute that BBC output is pro the royal family?
    You make a fair point, although more pertinent to england than BBCS i would guess.

    Good point on the royals, but id say its less pro them, and more reverential towards them - that may or may not be the same thing, i dunno. Certinly prince Charlie was no fan of the BBC's royal correspondent!

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    Quote Originally Posted by JimBHibees View Post
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    There was a research study done by ne of the universities in Scotland which clearly outlined an anti snp bias during the Indy ref was there not.
    That rings a bell, but was it not looking at print media aswell?

  23. #112
    @hibs.net private member JimBHibees's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthsideHarp_Bhoy View Post
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    That rings a bell, but was it not looking at print media aswell?
    No think it was the BBC and itv coverage

    http://www.thedrum.com/opinion/2014/...-blackout-must
    Last edited by JimBHibees; 09-01-2018 at 07:50 PM.

  24. #113
    Quote Originally Posted by JimBHibees View Post
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    No think it was the BBC and itv coverage

    http://www.thedrum.com/opinion/2014/...-blackout-must
    Here's the report.

    https://www.opendemocracy.net/ourkin...dum-new-report

    I think there was also a study on Radio Scotland that made similar findings.
    Last edited by Mr Grieves; 09-01-2018 at 08:52 PM.

  25. #114
    @hibs.net private member ronaldo7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimBHibees View Post
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    No think it was the BBC and itv coverage

    http://www.thedrum.com/opinion/2014/...-blackout-must
    "One email I hadn’t been expecting came directly from BBC Scotland’s head of policy and corporate affairs on 21 January 2014. He expressed serious concerns about the methodology, accuracy and language used in the report, and felt so strongly that he by-passed my head of school and dean of faculty and went straight to the university principal".

    Old school tie at work, fortunately for Mr Robertston, his principal backed him to the hilt.

    Mr Robertson still does a blog, and unearths some beauties.

    This was a good one back in 2014. Is it still happening today?

    http://johnhilley.blogspot.co.uk/201...s-framing.html
    Last edited by ronaldo7; 09-01-2018 at 08:56 PM.


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  26. #115
    @hibs.net private member johnbc70's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimBHibees View Post
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    No think it was the BBC and itv coverage

    http://www.thedrum.com/opinion/2014/...-blackout-must
    Not really overwhelming proof though is it, it's one man's opinion based on a study he did himself. His second study was then funded by a pro indy organisation.

  27. #116
    @hibs.net private member ronaldo7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by McD View Post
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    Fair enough - out of curiosity, is Wings Over Scotland unbiased, or do you not trust them?



    Just joshing, you are very honest about where your political views lie 😊


    He's up front about his affiliations, and imo does a fantastic job of dissecting MSM pish. It's a pity some cannot or won't acknowledge the bias which is evident at the BBC.


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  28. #117
    Quote Originally Posted by SouthsideHarp_Bhoy View Post
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    Perhaps, but this thread is only hearing from one side, who all have a similar viee and then all congratulate one another when they post something that they see as confirming that shared view.

    How many weak stories are picked up from the scottish government?

    Also, the SNP / SG will rightly be criticised more, because that is what happens to governments. Opposition attack them, and media run it because the media love negativity and negative stories. Thats the system working as it is supposed to.

    Its like complaining that FMQs are biased because the government doesnt get to ask any questions.

    And as i said above, all sides accuse the BBC of bias against them - by definition, most of them must be wrong.

    So you contingently agree with the couple of minor contributions I've made, but then go on to ask a rhetorical, and Id wager unanswerable question.
    No wonder this is a circular argument.

    But if you want to add some weght to your argument feel to come back with anything remotely assembling stats to back up your couple of claims that its worse in respect to Govt stories



    Or you can help me try and square this circle from Twitter today (Ponsonby)

    Sarah Smith: "Last week over one hundred thousand patients waited more than four hours to be seen."
    --
    There were 25,865 attendances at Emergency Departments across Scotland last week. Source. https://t.co/dcIm4ZsFXn

    https://t.co/MMi27oN72T


    --
    Yet:
    According to her figures, 78% were seen in the target 4 hours. Therefore her "100,000" represents only 22% of total A&E attendances. So total attendance works out at over 454,000, i.e about 8.5% of Scottish population.

    --
    Genuine question.. I'm open to any explanation
    Last edited by Kavinho; 10-01-2018 at 08:16 AM.

  29. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnbc70 View Post
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    Not really overwhelming proof though is it, it's one man's opinion based on a study he did himself. His second study was then funded by a pro indy organisation.
    So youre saying it might be biased... 😊

  30. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronaldo7 View Post
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    "One email I hadnít been expecting came directly from BBC Scotlandís head of policy and corporate affairs on 21 January 2014. He expressed serious concerns about the methodology, accuracy and language used in the report, and felt so strongly that he by-passed my head of school and dean of faculty and went straight to the university principal".

    Old school tie at work, fortunately for Mr Robertston, his principal backed him to the hilt.

    Mr Robertson still does a blog, and unearths some beauties.

    This was a good one back in 2014. Is it still happening today?

    http://johnhilley.blogspot.co.uk/201...s-framing.html
    Do you know that is the case, or is it another od your innuendos?

    What old school network are they both part of?

    If an organisation had come out fundamentally challening my organisation and i felt it was unfounded, i would also seek to raise it at the highest possible levels.

    That doesnt prove anything, other than the author fept he had rattled the BBC

    Rather than take the opinion ofnour friendly, local Hibs net SNP political education officer, lets see what Blair Jenkins thinks about this issue, habing worked at senior levels on both sides -

    "Mr Jenkins said the broadcast media had an important role to play. He added that as a former BBC Scotland news boss, he very rarely saw "deliberate bias" and he did not believe there was "systematic bias" at the BBC.

    He told the committee: "You see mistakes being made and mistakes are being made because resources are being cut, particularly at BBC Scotland.

    "As someone who held a senior role in BBC Scotland I am very aware of the strength of feeling in the journalistic community that they are over stretched.

    "I am more aware of opportunities being missed, programmes not being done and issues not being treated with enough depth."
    Last edited by SouthsideHarp_Bhoy; 10-01-2018 at 09:10 AM.

  31. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kavinho View Post
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    So you contingently agree with the couple of minor contributions I've made, but then go on to ask a rhetorical, and Id wager unanswerable question.
    No wonder this is a circular argument.

    But if you want to add some weght to your argument feel to come back with anything remotely assembling stats to back up your couple of claims that its worse in respect to Govt stories



    Or you can help me try and square this circle from Twitter today (Ponsonby)

    Sarah Smith: "Last week over one hundred thousand patients waited more than four hours to be seen."
    --
    There were 25,865 attendances at Emergency Departments across Scotland last week. Source. https://t.co/dcIm4ZsFXn

    https://t.co/MMi27oN72T


    --
    Yet:
    According to her figures, 78% were seen in the target 4 hours. Therefore her "100,000" represents only 22% of total A&E attendances. So total attendance works out at over 454,000, i.e about 8.5% of Scottish population.

    --
    Genuine question.. I'm open to any explanation
    What is people's obsession on here with stats? It isnt a court of law, its about people's opinions.

    The point i was making about scot govt news releases is exactly that - we dont know (and certainly cant be bothered looking) but how can we then claim bias when we habe only one side's figures? For all we know it could ne biased the other way.

    I dont know about the a&e figures, although interestingly they came from a SG news release i believe.

    But a couple of points... firstly, the ambulance story was a claim of bias in favour of the tories, but surely a pro tory organisation would not hire the daughter of a former Labour leader to front up its political coverage?

    Secondly, its normal for the media to pick up and run more stories that are questioning the government of the day - that isnt about being anti-SNP, its about holding a govt to account. Too many SNP supporters still view their government as a campaign, viewimg everything througj the prism of yes/no. But this is govt business as usual, all govts get questioned more than the opposition. I doubt anyone could claim that the tory govt in london gets favourable coverage from the bbc for the same (and many other, self-inflicted, reasons!)

    Im happy to take the word of Blair Jenkins i posted abovd rather than that of pro-SNP supporters who themselves are biased in their outlook.

    Im sure there have been, and are individuals in the bbc with political bias, but i dont believe the BBC as an org is biased. And given as a country the SNP are our most popular party, i would suggest a high number of those working in the bbc habe snp sympathies.
    Last edited by SouthsideHarp_Bhoy; 10-01-2018 at 09:24 AM.

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