No Punishment for Rangers

[O'Rourke3]

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It really is a disgraceful decision to have a Chief Executive openly dismiss a report before he's actually read it. The m,essage it sends out is appalling i.e. in Scotland in 2015 you can verbally abuse someone on the basis of their colour, religion and ethnicity and as far as the Scottish Footballing Authorities are concerned its nothing to do with them.
The Rangers support are laugfhing at Scottish football, now saying there was no racial chanting! Christ almighty a mate and me heard it with our own ears and could scarcely believe it.
Its obvious that nothing will change under the Ancien Regime operating out of Hampden.
Frankly I despair!

No he's saying under the rules there's not much he can do about it. There's a big difference. I agree the message is appalling. His statement more or less backed that. The way to fix this is to get the fans of those clubs who do not support this type of behaviour to get to their clubs and insist that their club actually does something about it......

[Paisley Hibby]

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Hunbelievable

Naw, just Hunsurprising

[Eyrie]

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Naw, just Hunsurprising

It's another example of Hunacceptable behaviour.

[Moulin Yarns]

Compare and contrast.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/31602715

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/31619707

£12,600 fine for one, nothing for the other.

[Glorious St Pat]

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Compare and contrast.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/31602715

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/31619707

£12,600 fine for one, nothing for the other.

Because strict liability rules comply with Euro competitions not domestic games as our clubs refused to endorse it.

[Smartie]

Ok, so it looks like all of the clubs are complicit in this through not backing the introduction of strict liability rules.

Are the fans of the clubs onside with this though? I can't believe that the fans of any club in Scotland (outwith the OF) will be anything other than disgusted with this chain of events.

Do we as fans need to put pressure on our club - and encourage those at other clubs - to change this ruling?

Is this maybe something for our "fans representatives" to take up with the club?

As far as I'm concerned if you're not part of the solution you're part of the problem. Given the history of our club and the fact that sectarianism was feature in our ground as recently as the 70s only to be eradicated completely I'd like to see us take the lead on this.

I don't think the simple, quiet, lethargic "it's always been this way and always will" approach is acceptable here.

[Biggie]

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Because strict liability rules comply with Euro competitions not domestic games as our clubs refused to endorse it.

shame on them all....in 21st century Scotland as well......we're a wee country....with small ambitions..
It would be interesting to hear how hibs voted......

[Kojock]

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The only people who would really know that question is the orange order and the masonic lodge, so why ask him?
Or did he hit a nerve?

Because so many empty vessels on here type whatever they want without any facts or figures to back it up. I used to know hundreds of serving officers and never knew of any who were members of the orange order with less than 1% of officers being members of the masonic lodge.

[Gingertosser]

It will need people to put pressure on all the clubs, and also the Scottish government.

Money is the only thing that the clubs are interested in, so if supporters refused to attend matches against certain teams, clubs like Hibs would have to do something.

Similarly, pressure should be put on the Scottish government to stop any funds being allocated directly or indirectly thro' governmentt funded initiatives to the SFA/SPFL, this would get the people at the top of our game bricking it.

[Golden Bear]

I must admit that I have a certain sympathy with the Clubs and can understand the stance that they take.

Provided that they comply with all the Health & Safety requirements, employ the necessary number of Stewards and arrange for an adequate Police presence within the stadium then why should they be held accountable for the actions of fans? There's only so much that they can do and surely it's the responsibility of the Police and the justice system to ensure that law and order is maintained.

Numpties will always be numpties whether they are singing sectarian songs, letting off smoke bombs or hurling missiles on to the pitch from row ZZ of the stand.

I don't know what the answer is but neither the Clubs nor innocent fans should be made to suffer because of the actions of a few (or not so few as the case may be)

[7062]

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I must admit that I have a certain sympathy with the Clubs and can understand the stance that they take.

Provided that they comply with all the Health & Safety requirements, employ the necessary number of Stewards and arrange for an adequate Police presence within the stadium then why should they be held accountable for the actions of fans? There's only so much that they can do and surely it's the responsibility of the Police and the justice system to ensure that law and order is maintained.

Numpties will always be numpties whether they are singing sectarian songs, letting off smoke bombs or hurling missiles on to the pitch from row ZZ of the stand.

I don't know what the answer is but neither the Clubs nor innocent fans should be made to suffer because of the actions of a few (or not so few as the case may be)

I agree with most things in your post, however I wonder if the sectarian chants, smoke bombs etc would stop if the clubs were punished for their fans behaviour. I don't think anyone, no matter how much of an idiot they were, would want to be responsible for the club they support being docked points/fined.

[Lucius Apuleius]

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Because so many empty vessels on here type whatever they want without any facts or figures to back it up. I used to know hundreds of serving officers and never knew of any who were members of the orange order with less than 1% of officers being members of the masonic lodge.

Correct. Local masonic lodge has 620 plus members. None are serving policemen.

[Golden Bear]

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I agree with most things in your post, however I wonder if the sectarian chants, smoke bombs etc would stop if the clubs were punished for their fans behaviour. I don't think anyone, no matter how much of an idiot they were, would want to be responsible for the club they support being docked points/fined.

I beg to differ - the possible consequences for the Club they supposedly support will not come in to their "thinking."

[--------]

There's no reason at all why the law of the land shouldn't be applied within football grounds the same as in other public places.

However, the football authorities need to act to revise their rule book to bring their guidelines into line with UEFA's.

"There's a nearly 200-page rule book for Scottish football and nowhere in it do you find any kind of guidelines on how you deal with offensive behaviour, it's all very vague in that regard. Strict liability is Uefa's standard and what it sets out to do is very clear guidelines as to what happens if you behave in a sectarian, racist or offensive way at a match. The sanctions can include fining the club, closing the section of the stand where the singing emanated from, it can include docking points, it can include in very extreme cases, as we had in Russia, games being played behind closed doors. It's actually giving football governing bodies the teeth to do something about it, because at the moment what we've got is everybody seeking to excuse themselves from duty - clubs pointing to the SPFL, the SPFL pointing to the police."

Dave Scott of 'Nil By Mouth'.

The football authorities blame the police. The police say they don't have the powers to arrest all the culprits. The government make noises about passing new legislation, but actually do nothing. So the SFA say the polis should act; the polis say they need new legislation so the government should act, and the government make noises about how football should put its own house in order.

It's nothing to do with the Masons - it's about money and the fact that too many of the smaller clubs in Scotland are run by people with strong Rangers/Celtic sympathies (mostly Ranger IMO) and that ALL the smaller clubs in Scotland are scared stiff to offend the Gruesome Twosome because they know well that sooner or later they may need a favour from one of them.


Maybe what we need to happen is for UEFA to decide that since the SFA and SPFL are unwilling to change their rulebooks and therefore unable to do anything about the sort of singing we hear regularly from the stands at Ibrox and elsewhere, the time has come to suspend both these bodies from participation in any international competition at any level.

That just MIGHT get the attention of the paper-pushers at Hampden Park and the wasters who run our football clubs.

BTW - one thing I wouldn't accuse Rod Petrie of being is soft on sectarianism. Were Hibs not one of the two clubs who voted in favour of change?

[Tynie01011973]

Chris McLaughlin ‏@BBCchrismclaug 3m3 minutes ago
SPFL say they're to discuss current regulations re sectarian chanting at next board meeting in March.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B-sz9kDWkAA3rv5.jpg

Shamed into actually doing something about it ? Or just trying to look as if they are ?

[Aldo]

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The only people who would really know that question is the orange order and the masonic lodge, so why ask him? Or did he hit a nerve?

I f I'm reading you correctly I think what you are saying is making a stereotypical statement or generalisation that every police office has been or is in the Orange Order or Masonic Lodge. This made me laugh out loud btw!! I know loads of Cops and not one is or has been a member of either of the above.

[superfurryhibby]

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Don't be so naive. Well known of their lodge connections. I know of six police officers and they are all members.

Funnily enough the two cops I've known were both Masons. The only other Mason I know, that admits it, is a taxi driver. That takes me to the only miscarriage of justice I've been party to. Involved a motorcycle, taxi and two cops who weren't part of the incident but aha, ha, witnessed it.

Who knows about the extent of freemasonry? Personally, I'm more concerned about the number of cabinet members who went to Eton and were part of the Bullingdon Club. Far more sinister.

People need to stop associating Rangers and Celtic when it comes to this and treat each issue on it's own merits. They are not the same, it lends strength to the bigots and makes it too easy to dismiss that the problems are something that cannot be changed. They are not a package and the sooner we divide them , then we can conquer them.

[PeeKay]

Good article from Tom English on the BBC site in which he compares the response from Chelsea to the racism of fans in Paris, and from West Ham in response to the anti-Semitism at the Spurs game, to the total inaction from the huns and the football authorities in Scotland to the sectarianism on display last Friday.

[Keith_M]

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In response to Leith Mo and others - constitutionally there is nothing to prevent a PM being Catholic but there are restrictions in place under the following:

The 1829 Roman Catholic Relief Act does prohibit such a prime minister from advising the queen on church appointments. But, given that the Lord Chancellor (Tenure of Office and Discharge of Ecclesiastical Functions) Act 1974 provided that, if a Roman Catholic should be appointed Lord Chancellor, arrangements may be made by the Queen in Council for any or all of his
ecclesiastical functions to be performed by the Prime Minister or any other Minister
of the Crown. I suspect similar arrangements would be made for a catholic PM.

You must admit, it would seem a bit strange for someone other than a member of the CofE to be taking part in appointments to that Church. I expect the only reason that members of the RC Faith are mentioned in such laws is that they date back to a time when other religions were an irrelevance, so not worth mentioning.

Although, to someone like myself that's totally against any link between Church and State, the whole thing seems to stink anyway.

[Smartie]

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Good article from Tom English on the BBC site in which he compares the response from Chelsea to the racism of fans in Paris, and from West Ham in response to the anti-Semitism at the Spurs game, to the total inaction from the huns and the football authorities in Scotland to the sectarianism on display last Friday.

That did occur to me and I wondered if someone would bring that up.

It's not so long ago that people wouldn't cheer "black" goals in England and Mark Walters was pelted with bananas on making his debut in Scotland. Times have changed (so, so much for the better) and whilst you will still get the odd idiot behaving in an unacceptable manner the vast majority of people behave much better. I'd argue that football has been a superb medium for bringing people together through taking a "zero-tolerance" approach to racism.

Given their past "links" to idiot groups it was brilliant to see the approach Chelsea took. By the letter of the law could you say that Chelsea took all steps possible to prevent this happening on the train? Yep, you probably could. But they led by example, demonstrated an unwillingness to tolerate it and you won't see anything like that happen again for a while. As much as anything it sends out a message to the "decent" fans that they need to self-police too or they'll develop a reputation. Not good for their global brand to have this stuff beamed all over the world.

Now we all know that sectarianism is the The Rangers and Celtic brand. It's what links them all together and without it they'd be just another 2 average Scottish clubs.

I actually know a few decent followers of both clubs who don't like sectarianism and will bring their kids up supporting other teams. It's a shame that they are being forced out and the tolerance of this nonsense continues to prop these hideous clubs up.

Our authorities' response was really shown up by that of Chelsea.

[Glorious St Pat]

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shame on them all....in 21st century Scotland as well......we're a wee country....with small ambitions..
It would be interesting to hear how hibs voted......

Well there are 42 clubs and only 5% voted yes - so two clubs?

Would clubs vote for possible points deductions and fines for their supporters poor behaviour? Would be like turkey's voting for Christmas...still a lack of ambition shown by the clubs and FA still.

[Turkish Green]

So UEFA can fine Celtic for crowd disturbances and impose playing behind closed doors on Steaua but the Scottish authorities cannot do anything about the sectarian singing of the majority of the Sevco away support.

Neil Doncaster - NOT FIT FOR PURPOSE

[Onion]

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Good article from Tom English on the BBC site in which he compares the response from Chelsea to the racism of fans in Paris, and from West Ham in response to the anti-Semitism at the Spurs game, to the total inaction from the huns and the football authorities in Scotland to the sectarianism on display last Friday.

Compare and contrast the way Chelsea and West Ham reacted to supporters shaming their club with their untrammelled racism and the way Rangers behaved in the wake of sectarian chanting at Raith Rovers on Friday.
Chelsea issued a statement quickly after the footage was made public of their Neanderthal element refusing to allow a black man on the Paris metro while simultaneously singing of their pride in being racist.
The statement spoke of the club's "disgust" at what they saw on the film. They were "appalled" and they apologised unreservedly to the poor man who was subjected to this filth while committing themselves to their own investigation on top of the one that was being carried by the Metropolitan Police.
They suspended three fans. Later, Jose Mourinho, the Chelsea manager, said he was "ashamed". Through the club's press officer, Roman Abramovich, the owner, said he wanted to make it clear how disgusted and appalled he was. The chairman, Bruce Buck, met with the anti-racism group Kick It Out a few days after the incident.
Rangers fans against Raith Rovers
Rangers fans have found themselves in the spotlight for their singing at Stark's Park on Friday night
West Ham had their own problems over another video that appeared to show some fans racially taunting Spurs supporters en route to the London derby on Sunday. This time it was anti-Semitic abuse.
Like Chelsea before them, West Ham asked their own supporters to pass on any information they had about the guilty. West Ham emailed every one of their fans who had bought a ticket for the game to remind them they were all ambassadors for the club. They came across as a club that was serious about tackling this issue.
Ahead of the match, David Gold, the club's Jewish co-owner, tweeted a link to a powerful interview he did with The Guardian in which he spoke of how anti-Semitism was like a "dagger in the heart". Both of these clubs faced their crisis head-on.
And Rangers?
Not a peep from anybody inside Ibrox on Friday night, or Saturday, or Sunday, or Monday.

[CropleyWasGod]

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So UEFA can fine Celtic for crowd disturbances and impose playing behind closed doors on Steaua but the Scottish authorities cannot do anything about the sectarian singing of the majority of the Sevco away support.

Neil Doncaster - NOT FIT FOR PURPOSE

Again, ND can only do what the clubs tell him to do.

It is significant, though, that there is to be a meeting of the SPFL next month to discuss the issue. There has probably been a backlash from some member clubs against recent events, and that's no bad thing.

[EdinMike]

I can already guess what will be the outcome of this meeting next month.

Diddly Squat.

Until they start acting on the vile, bile that these "fans" spew every week. Then nothing will be done. If they know they can get away with it without punishment they'll keep doing it.

Rinse and repeat.

[emerald green]

The thing about the Rangers supporters songs / chants is that they are BOTH sectarian and racist.

If anyone is familiar with the words of "The Famine Song" it is racist in every sense of the word. An absolute sickening and offensive song to anyone who is Irish, or has Irish ancestry.

[steakbake]

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So UEFA can fine Celtic for crowd disturbances and impose playing behind closed doors on Steaua but the Scottish authorities cannot do anything about the sectarian singing of the majority of the Sevco away support.

Neil Doncaster - NOT FIT FOR PURPOSE

The pathetic refrain of "we've been punished enough" is probably an SFA catch phrase.

[Smartie]

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I can already guess what will be the outcome of this meeting next month.

Diddly Squat.

Until they start acting on the vile, bile that these "fans" spew every week. Then nothing will be done. If they know they can get away with it without punishment they'll keep doing it.

Rinse and repeat.

It is important then that the fans of all the other clubs (and to be fair the decent fans of The Rangers and Celtic) raise their voices and make sure that "doing nothing" at this meeting is totally unacceptable.

We are the ones that are not taking our kids to games involving the OF because we don't want to subject them to this stuff. Anyone who has anything to do with Scottish football is guilty by association if we continue to allow this to be tolerated.

It is wrong to admit defeat on this one before a ball has been kicked.

[The Harp Awakes]

Statement from the Union of Fans in advance of the game with Falkirk:

"The Union of Fans would like to urge supporters to remember that their behaviour at the game on Friday night will once again be under intense scrutiny," the group said in a statement.
"The Rangers fans have been consistently excellent over the past few years and have attracted much deserved praise. It remains the case however that any slip will be highlighted whilst behaviour by fans of other clubs is largely ignored.
"Acts of defiance do not work. They do not shine the spotlight on the actions of others but merely turn it back on our fans. We are in a position of weakness and our club is an easy target. That will not always be the case.
"A tiny section of fans have let the club down recently by reverting to damaging behaviour which is not only illegal but tarnishes the club.
"Help us to challenge attempts to smear the club by giving those who seek to damage us no ammunition."



Oh ma sides

[Smartie]

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Statement from the Union of Fans in advance of the game with Falkirk:

"The Union of Fans would like to urge supporters to remember that their behaviour at the game on Friday night will once again be under intense scrutiny," the group said in a statement.
"The Rangers fans have been consistently excellent over the past few years and have attracted much deserved praise. It remains the case however that any slip will be highlighted whilst behaviour by fans of other clubs is largely ignored.
"Acts of defiance do not work. They do not shine the spotlight on the actions of others but merely turn it back on our fans. We are in a position of weakness and our club is an easy target. That will not always be the case.
"A tiny section of fans have let the club down recently by reverting to damaging behaviour which is not only illegal but tarnishes the club.
"Help us to challenge attempts to smear the club by giving those who seek to damage us no ammunition."



Oh ma sides

There is a lot in there that is frankly laughable nonsense, but it is a language that might actually resonate with the huns and it may even get the desired result.

I don't really care how or why they stop singing their nonsense. The most important thing is that they stop singing it.

And whilst it is dripping with the usual hinted "whataboutery" it does acknowledge that they are not alone and that action should be taken on those that indulge in similar elsewhere i.e. Parkhead and Tynecastle. It is impossible to argue that this is indeed true.

It does demonstrate a quite hilariously deluded lack of self-awareness though.