The Leith rail disaster May 1915

[brog]

Commemoration events are apparently planned for Gretna on 22 May & for Leith on 23 May. One well known name amongst those to perish was Lt Christian Salvesen.

[Pretty Boy]

I live about 5 minutes walk from Rosebank Cemetry and I'm almsot embarrassed to say I've never visited the Gretna memorial. Think I'll try and rectify that this weekend.

It's a really intetrsting story and one I'm going to try and read more about.

[Pinkie]

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I have dropped an email to one of the government officials at the end of Pinkie's email. I asked what the form of the commemoration was taking.

I will update when an answer is received.

Thanks - didn't occur to me to do that. I'll look out for your updates.

[BSEJVT]

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Quite simply, wow. Lest we forget.

Agree 100%

My father was a great British Legion man and I was brought up in that type of environment but even I don't think I have heard a story quite like Worcester's

It's absolutely mind boggling, we owe our service people past and present a debt we can never repay and IMO don't do nearly enough to try to.

God bless them all

[Pinkie]

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Thanks for this

Edit: Found this which pretty much includes the names - sorry, misread re the dates

I know there's also a memorial outside the church at the foot of Easter Road, just down from the Persevere, but I think that's a memorial to Boys Brigade members who died only.

[--------]

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In Alan Lugton's 3rd book in his Hibs trilogy he states that " 8 of the soldiers killed at Gretna had at one time or another been on Hibs books". He also provides an interesting piece of information in that Hibs made ER available for military training early in the war & Hibs players, members of the Edinburgh-Irish Brigade & Hearts players all drilled at ER. As mentioned in other posts 101 soldiers were buried in a mass grave at Rosebank cemetery on Pilrig Street & many others were buried in Eastern cemetery behind ER. I have no doubt that the great majority of the dead would have been Hibs fans but it is 100% certain they were all from Leith & as a Leith club we must play an active role in any commemoration. Thanks to the OP for starting this important thread, hopefully we can keep the thread active until May.

Actually, they weren't ALL from Leith - the Battalion was the 7th (Leith and Lothians) Battalion, T.A. and drew its men from that whole area. The vast majority however were from Leith itself, and a number of others from the eastern and northern parts of Edinburgh (remember that Leith wasn't part of the city of Edinburgh until 1929). There were a few men from West Lothian - Armadale and Bathgate IIRC. I suspect that those men probably had had a Leith connection, though - originating in the town, then moving away but continuing to be part of the local T.A.

Training took place at the Drill Hall in Dalmeny Street just off Leith Walk. The Battalion was very much a community battalion and the disaster was a huge blow to the community as a whole. Everyone was affected by it - either by the loss of a family member or by the loss of a neighbour or friend.

My great uncle, Pte. Andrew Baillie, was 20 when he was killed. His niece told me that the families were initially denied the usual pensions for widows and for injuries suffered in the crash. the line the War Office took was that since they hadn't actually embarked on the troopship at Liverpool, they hadn't actually been properly mustered into the Army. There was such an outcry, however, that they backtracked and paid up in the end.

Link for the relevant page from the regimental website:

http://www.theroyalscots.co.uk/page/...sh-22-may-1915

List of the dead:

http://www.scotsman.me.uk/Newsletter...shill_Roll.pdf

The name that always gives me a wee shiver is in the third column - Kerr, Napoleon B. The lad's middle name was Bonaparte - he must have had quite some leg-pulling about that, poor soul.

[worcesterhibby]

thanks for all the kind words about my Great Uncle.

Here is a newspaper cutting from the time which gives an account of his war and the fate of his brothers. I have a owe debt of gratitude to a friend of my families Richie Walker who helped a great deal in the research. He spent a lot of time tracing the history of all the men who are listed on the WW! roll of honour for Leith Methodist Church.

[NAE NOOKIE]

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thanks for all the kind words about my Great Uncle.

Here is a newspaper cutting from the time which gives an account of his war and the fate of his brothers. I have a owe debt of gratitude to a friend of my families Richie Walker who helped a great deal in the research. He spent a lot of time tracing the history of all the men who are listed on the WW! roll of honour for Leith Methodist Church.

Two children killed one wounded and one on active service ...... its when you read stuff like that that anger takes the place of pride. What the hell had poor Mrs Cheyne ever done to be put through that. She may be long gone but my heart bleeds for her. politicians !!!

[gorgie greens]

Great stories guys and hats off to those brave guys, really hope Hibs can do something about the date,if you listened to the Yams they won the wars all by them selves.

[--------]

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thanks for all the kind words about my Great Uncle.

Here is a newspaper cutting from the time which gives an account of his war and the fate of his brothers. I have a owe debt of gratitude to a friend of my families Richie Walker who helped a great deal in the research. He spent a lot of time tracing the history of all the men who are listed on the WW! roll of honour for Leith Methodist Church.

Some story.

[Green Man]

I only found out about the Gretna disaster a few years back. I had been at Easter Road getting tickets and was walking back to work as I passed the cemetery at Pilrig. I noticed the Commonwealth war graves and went in, there I saw the memorial to the disaster. What an awful tragedy, and very appropriate that it should be commemorated.

[Just Alf]

There's a list of everyone involved here, it includes the guys addresses which really shows the impact across Leith at it's environs..... really, really sad.

[brog]

[QUOTE=Doddie;4301215]Actually, they weren't ALL from Leith - the Battalion was the 7th (Leith and Lothians) Battalion, T.A. and drew its men from that whole area. The vast majority however were from Leith itself, and a number of others from the eastern and northern parts of Edinburgh (remember that Leith wasn't part of the city of Edinburgh until 1929). There were a few men from West Lothian - Armadale and Bathgate IIRC. I suspect that those men probably had had a Leith connection, though - originating in the town, then moving away but continuing to be part of the local T.A.

You're correct of course Doddie in that not all were from Leith though the 7th Battalion was ( per the Royal Scots' website ) known only as Leith. The piece below ( same source ) explains how the Battalion was expanded for war purposes. The main thing however as we're all agreed on is it was an awful tragedy, which somehow IMO sums up the absolute futility of war, ie being killed in an accident on your way to a battle where huge casualties were incurred. I grew up in Leith Walk, about 50 yards from Dalmeny Street & went to many events in the TA hall there but its only in recent years I became aware of the Gretna disaster.

The 7th Battalion, with their Drill Hall in Dalmeny Street, just within the then Burgh of Leith, drew nearly all its recruits from that Burgh, Portobello and, a sizeable number, concentrated in A Company, from neighbouring Musselburgh. This very local recruiting had not altered much by 1915 although the Battalion had been reinforced to War establishment for deployment overseas by a Company from 8th Battalion The Highland Light Infantry, drawn mostly from the Lanark area, two of whom were killed. Within the Battalion roll of those involved in the crash are listed a few men from the Lothians and from Fife and one, Pte John Fyfe, who was killed, from Lima, New York, USA.

[--------]

[QUOTE=brog;4301421]

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Actually, they weren't ALL from Leith - the Battalion was the 7th (Leith and Lothians) Battalion, T.A. and drew its men from that whole area. The vast majority however were from Leith itself, and a number of others from the eastern and northern parts of Edinburgh (remember that Leith wasn't part of the city of Edinburgh until 1929). There were a few men from West Lothian - Armadale and Bathgate IIRC. I suspect that those men probably had had a Leith connection, though - originating in the town, then moving away but continuing to be part of the local T.A.

You're correct of course Doddie in that not all were from Leith though the 7th Battalion was ( per the Royal Scots' website ) known only as Leith. The piece below ( same source ) explains how the Battalion was expanded for war purposes. The main thing however as we're all agreed on is it was an awful tragedy, which somehow IMO sums up the absolute futility of war, ie being killed in an accident on your way to a battle where huge casualties were incurred. I grew up in Leith Walk, about 50 yards from Dalmeny Street & went to many events in the TA hall there but its only in recent years I became aware of the Gretna disaster.

The 7th Battalion, with their Drill Hall in Dalmeny Street, just within the then Burgh of Leith, drew nearly all its recruits from that Burgh, Portobello and, a sizeable number, concentrated in A Company, from neighbouring Musselburgh. This very local recruiting had not altered much by 1915 although the Battalion had been reinforced to War establishment for deployment overseas by a Company from 8th Battalion The Highland Light Infantry, drawn mostly from the Lanark area, two of whom were killed. Within the Battalion roll of those involved in the crash are listed a few men from the Lothians and from Fife and one, Pte John Fyfe, who was killed, from Lima, New York, USA.

Sorry - I took the 'Leith and Lothians' tag from Lyn MacDonald's book excellent book '1915'. Obviously the regiment website give the right title.

Your other point about the utter stupidity and futility of the whole business just sums the whole thing up - more than 200 men killed in a train crash on their way to the troopship to be taken out to a campaign which even for the First World War was exceptionally pointless and futile, and all down to incompetence and greed on the part of the railway company and the government ....

Aye, well.

[itslegaltender]

I have a relative who died, William McEwan. His daughter (my great Auntie) died at the age of 99 on Boxing day. She never spoke of it, she never knew him because she was so young at the time of his death. She lived on Dalgety Street for 60 years, remember many times hearing the roar of the crowd from Easter Road when we visited her.

The crazy thing for me is that my Grandfather, her brother was born just over a year after this.... Potentially, I wouldn't be here today if William McEwan had survived. It does make you wonder what its all about when an event like this changes the course of future generations.

[surreyhibbie]

sad number of people from Musselburgh, my home town. Including al least one who was probably related to me.

Must dig deeper. I was aware of the disaster but hadn't seen the list of names before.

Very moving.

[ACLeith]

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http://www.oldleither.com/GretnaIcon.html
i imagine South Leith parish church will have some kind of commemoration for the rail disaster

A brief update .... on Saturday 23rd May there is a parade and commemoration service in Edinburgh, centred on Dalmeny Street Drill Hall and Rosebank Cemetery.
On Sunday 24th, alongside other services, as part of their regular Sunday service, South Leith Parish Church is laying wreaths at their main war memorial (some survivors may have subsequently been killed and would be listed on that memorial) and on the memorial to the 7th Battalion Royal Scots.

[lord bunberry]

There's a Facebook page for anyone who's interested. It's called remembering the leith battalion gretna 1915-2015

[Fife-Hibee]

Brings a tear reading the list. Must have been a very sad time for the city ( poor souls ) :(

[jdships]

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I remember reading that the memorial at Rosebank Cemetery lists the names, whether that's all the names or just those buried there I don't know.

Sad thing is this quote from a reputable publication about the disaster.

" A number of bodies were never recovered having been wholly consumed by the fire and the bodies that were recovered were buried together in a mass grave in Edinburgh's Rosebank Cemetery. Four bodies, believed to be of children were never identified or claimed and are buried in the Western Necropolis, Glasgow. "

A statement at the time on behalf of the Provost and Ministers of every Church in Leith stated

" There isn't a household in Leith which does not contain someone or was known by someone who was involved in this disaster , albeit direct relative friend, neighbour , work mate whatever "

My aunt's told me my family had five involved injured .

[JimBHibees]

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Sad thing is this quote from a reputable publication about the disaster.

" A number of bodies were never recovered having been wholly consumed by the fire and the bodies that were recovered were buried together in a mass grave in Edinburgh's Rosebank Cemetery. Four bodies, believed to be of children were never identified or claimed and are buried in the Western Necropolis, Glasgow. "

A statement at the time on behalf of the Provost and Ministers of every Church in Leith stated

" There isn't a household in Leith which does not contain someone or was known by someone who was involved in this disaster , albeit direct relative friend, neighbour , work mate whatever "

My aunt's told me my family had five involved injured .

Dont really understand that one though suppose given the numbers involved and the fact there were a number of trains colliding it could happen. How can four children not be known to have died?

[cabbageandribs1875]

never forgotten

RIP :(

[offshorehibby]

Ok, this is not relay Leith or Edinburgh related but only heard about this disaster on the Forth today. Known as the battle of May island.

The “Battle” of May Island is the name given to the series of accidents that occurred during Operation EC1 in 1918. Named after the Isle of May, an island in the Firth of Forth, close by, it was a disastrous series of accidents amongst Royal Navy ships on their way from Rosyth in Scotland to fleet exercises in the North Sea. On the misty night of 31 January to 1 February 1918, five collisions occurred between eight vessels. Two submarines were lost and three other submarines and a light cruiser were damaged. 104 men died, all of them Royal Navy. Although it took place during the War it was an entirely accidental tragedy and no enemy forces were present. It was therefore not a Battle and was only referred to as such with black humour. The subsequent investigation and court martial were kept quiet, with much of the information not released until the 1990s.

http://www.scotlandswar.co.uk/may_island.html

[Largshibby]

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Dont really understand that one though suppose given the numbers involved and the fact there were a number of trains colliding it could happen. How can four children not be known to have died?

Some of the victims were so badly burned as a result of fire following the collisions that the remains resembled those of children. As no one subsequently came forward looking for missing children it was decided that the remains were actually those of adults, probably soldiers from the troop train many of whom could not be formally identified.

[JimBHibees]

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Some of the victims were so badly burned as a result of fire following the collisions that the remains resembled those of children. As no one subsequently came forward looking for missing children it was decided that the remains were actually those of adults, probably soldiers from the troop train many of whom could not be formally identified.

Ok I understand that.

[Clarence]

My great Grandad from Balfour Street was involved and survived. He unfortunately died whilst my grandad was still an infant in the thirties, so we only have a word of mouth recollection of him passed down from my great grandmother. Even though my grandad never met him, he’s had a big influence on the family and I make sure that my kids know their heritage and the sacrifice their great great grandfather Rab made by ensuring that disaster and being shipped off to Gallipoli after.