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  1. #601
    Testimonial Due CB_NO3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caversham Green View Post
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    The holding company will retain all the shares it currently owns, but the total number of shares will increase by whatever number of new shares are actually bought.

    For example, if the total number of shares in existence was 100 and the holding company owned 90% it would hold 90 shares in total. If 100 new shares were issued and bought by HSL the holding company would still own 90 shares, but it would be 90 out of 200, which is 45%.
    Thanks for describing that


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  3. #602
    @hibs.net private member Jack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hibbybob View Post
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    There was a Shareholders Association years ago - set up after the initial floatation. I don't think its been active since the early 90s.
    Indeed. Working Together (and indeed Let's Work Together before that) has tried to find out what happened to the Shareholders Association; who, if anyone, is still involved and what they were upto these days.

    No trace of a present day Hibernian Shareholders Association was ever found.

    Since these 'searches' it seems no one has been in touch with any shareholders to reestablish it.

    One can only assume it's defunct and anyone claiming to act, or speak, on their behalf is on pretty dodgy ground.

    IMO.
    Space to let

  4. #603
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bostonhibby View Post
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    I'm sure the Hootsmon will have tracked down the members and verified the accuracy of their information before going into print thus avoiding damaging the credibility of their article,..............oh wait a minute.
    Apologies if already posted. Just catching up with my reading

    http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.co...bies-1-3671794

    Glenn Ross has called for the Hibs Shareholders Association, of which he is a member, to be revived. He said: “It’s been lying dormant for years because the ordinary shareholders have no say in how the club is run. It is down to two men, Sir Tom Farmer and Rod Petrie.

    “This new scheme should carry a serious health warning. Hibs have brought in millions in transfers and property deals over the years yet we find ourselves being asked now to pay off the debt to the majority shareholder. Hibs fans don’t trust them to run the club properly. They are not football people and never have been. They should do the right thing and hand the club over with no dodgy deals and leave us to bring in new investors. There are a lot of people in the Hibs community willing to help.”

  5. #604
    @hibs.net private member Arch Stanton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by underscore View Post
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    and thats what the clowns at HoH dont get. He;s giving away half the club for NOTHING... that 2.5m goes back to the CEO to invest in the football team. How on earth does that turn into STF trying to screw over the fans?
    Exactly.

    It is a fantastic plan by RP and STF - the fans could not wish for better.

    The autopilot decrying of the board needs to get switched off and people need to accept that a wind of change is really happening.

  6. #605
    Day Tripper matty_f's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by w pilton hibby View Post
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    Apologies if already posted. Just catching up with my reading

    http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.co...bies-1-3671794

    Glenn Ross has called for the Hibs Shareholders Association, of which he is a member, to be revived. He said: “It’s been lying dormant for years because the ordinary shareholders have no say in how the club is run. It is down to two men, Sir Tom Farmer and Rod Petrie.

    “This new scheme should carry a serious health warning. Hibs have brought in millions in transfers and property deals over the years yet we find ourselves being asked now to pay off the debt to the majority shareholder. Hibs fans don’t trust them to run the club properly. They are not football people and never have been. They should do the right thing and hand the club over with no dodgy deals and leave us to bring in new investors. There are a lot of people in the Hibs community willing to help.”
    That last quote is ridiculous, it really is.

    Where do they think that money went? Really?

    Property deals??

    We've re-built an entire stadium and built a training centre while STF has been here, what other club has achieved that in Scottish football in that time?

    Do they think that there's no costs involved in those things?

    We've spent the transfer fees that came in on the football club, either by clearing debt (where the money had already been spent, and therefore needed repaying), or by running the club, or in re-investment in players.

    There's nobody at the club that's pocketed the cash or made money out of it.

    Absurd statement.
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  7. #606
    @hibs.net private member jacomo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caversham Green View Post
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    Are you being serious here?

    My post was a response to what appears to be a profound misunderstanding of what is going on. The suggestion was that STF had created and now owns shares and was selling them off to a company set up (and by implication controlled) by him. That's wrong on all counts.
    I perhaps didn't express myself very clearly, but I found this paragraph of yours deeply confusing:

    Farmer has not created any shares, he is not giving any shares away (he doesn't actually own any shares in the club) and is unlikely ever to own the new shares that will be 'created' as and when people buy them. He has absolutely no interest in or control over HSL, nor has he given Dempster permission to do anything with his shares (which he doesn't own anyway).
    Are you drawing a distinction between Farmer and the Holding Co that does own shares in Hibs? Technically true, but it's like saying Ashley doesn't own 9% of Rangers. Technically true, but baffling.

    You are right to say that he doesn't have a stake in HSL, but clearly it was created with his approval.

  8. #607
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    Quote Originally Posted by w pilton hibby View Post
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    Glenn Ross has called for the Hibs Shareholders Association, of which he is a member, to be revived. He said: “It’s been lying dormant for years because the ordinary shareholders have no say in how the club is run. It is down to two men, Sir Tom Farmer and Rod Petrie.

    “This new scheme should carry a serious health warning. Hibs have brought in millions in transfers and property deals over the years yet we find ourselves being asked now to pay off the debt to the majority shareholder. Hibs fans don’t trust them to run the club properly. They are not football people and never have been. They should do the right thing and hand the club over with no dodgy deals and leave us to bring in new investors. There are a lot of people in the Hibs community willing to help.”
    Interesting thing for me is that David Hardie (the reporter) can find and then get a negative quote from an (ex) member of a defunct organisation.


  9. #608
    Coaching Staff emerald green's Avatar
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    I'm just getting the feeling that there are people posting stuff on this forum and elsewhere, making statements and so on to the media, concerning HSL who simply do not want to understand what is being proposed.

    Why this should be so, I really do not know. I could speculate that it could be for a number of reasons. For example, sheer stupidity, moaning for moanings sake, paranoia, personal vendettas or agendas, financial illiteracy perhaps?

    Whatever it is, it sure isn't doing anything to help the club they claim to support.

  10. #609
    Quote Originally Posted by jacomoseven View Post
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    I perhaps didn't express myself very clearly, but I found this paragraph of yours deeply confusing:



    Are you drawing a distinction between Farmer and the Holding Co that does own shares in Hibs? Technically true, but it's like saying Ashley doesn't own 9% of Rangers. Technically true, but baffling.

    You are right to say that he doesn't have a stake in HSL, but clearly it was created with his approval.
    I'm not drawing a distinction between Farmer and the holding company, I'm making the point that as things stand no shares have been created by anyone and if no-one subscribes to the share offer none will be. That means that the only people ever to own those shares will be the people that buy them plus anyone they subsequently sell them on to. Substitute 'Hibs' or 'the holding company' for 'Farmer' and the meaning would be the same.

    No doubt STF did approve of the creation of HSL, but that's not particularly relevant to anything - he's neither a member nor a director and the only director out of seven that he's likely to have any influence over is Leeann Dempster - I think Charlie Reid and Jackie MacNamara are likely to be a decent counterweight to that.

  11. #610
    Coaching Staff NAE NOOKIE's Avatar
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    I have not been slow to criticise STF but only on the basis of his refusal to make any comment on the clubs plight and more to the point to say what he intended to do about it. As things stand his comments at the AGM and the new fan ownership initiative have addressed these issues.

    As for RP ...... I still think it would be the final piece in the jigsaw if he was gone.

    Now then Hibs ............ where's my letter ?

  12. #611
    @hibs.net private member Golden Bear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by w pilton hibby View Post
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    Interesting thing for me is that David Hardie (the reporter) can find and then get a negative quote from an (ex) member of a defunct organisation.

    I've been a shareholder ever since the bad old days of the Mercer takeover and I'd never heard of the Shareholders Association up until a few weeks ago. It seems to as though as yet another individual has been pumping their jaws with the intent of stirring up trouble.

    It baffles me, it really does. Now is the time for a united front if ever there was.

  13. #612
    Quote Originally Posted by Golden Bear View Post
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    I've been a shareholder ever since the bad old days of the Mercer takeover and I'd never heard of the Shareholders Association up until a few weeks ago. It seems to as though as yet another individual has been pumping their jaws with the intent of stirring up trouble.

    It baffles me, it really does. Now is the time for a united front if ever there was.
    United Front? I hope that's not another splinter group.

  14. #613
    @hibs.net private member greenginger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Golden Bear View Post
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    I've been a shareholder ever since the bad old days of the Mercer takeover and I'd never heard of the Shareholders Association up until a few weeks ago. It seems to as though as yet another individual has been pumping their jaws with the intent of stirring up trouble.

    It baffles me, it really does. Now is the time for a united front if ever there was.

    I was a member of the shareholders association back in the Duff and Gray era. Except the shares were not in Hibernian Football Club.

    The shares that were sold to the public were in the holding company Highmaze Ltd which changed its name Hibernian Holdings Ltd or something.

    That is the company that went bust and was liquidated and Glen Ross wants to revive the the association of liquidated share owners.

    The man is Imbecile with a capital I.

    Simon Pia obviously , and Glen Ross have personal grudges against STF , and are happy to damage Hibernian Football Club to get at him.

    Now that is unhealthy for the football club.

  15. #614
    @hibs.net private member Golden Bear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by greenginger View Post
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    I was a member of the shareholders association back in the Duff and Gray era. Except the shares were not in Hibernian Football Club.

    The shares that were sold to the public were in the holding company Highmaze Ltd which changed its name Hibernian Holdings Ltd or something.

    That is the company that went bust and was liquidated and Glen Ross wants to revive the the association of liquidated share owners.

    The man is Imbecile with a capital I.

    Simon Pia obviously , and Glen Ross have personal grudges against STF , and are happy to damage Hibernian Football Club to get at him.

    Now that is unhealthy for the football club.
    Ah yes - am I correct in saying that STF ensured that new share certificates were issued based on the 50p per share valuation?

  16. #615
    @hibs.net private member greenginger's Avatar
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    Found some of the stuff, deep down in the garage archives.

    Highmaze Ltd bought out Kenny Waugh and all the other shareholders at the time ( 500,000 shares at £ 1.75 / share )

    The company was renamed Edinburgh Hiberian PLC and floated on the 3rd tier of the Stock Exchange and raised £ 6.5 million used almost entirely to buy worthless leasehold pubs called Avon Inns, all owned by Rolland. Those were the shares the fans bought and STF provided new shares to all the " fan " owners. Bet he wishes he had scratched a few names off the list.

    The losses sustained by these businesses brought the whole place down.

    I wonder if the clown Glen Ross realises that his Hibs shares were given to him for free by STF and the shares he had bought are confetti .

  17. #616
    Old Codger Hibstorian Jonnyboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Milne View Post
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    That can't be true as Mike and his committee have no mandate from the branches to support anyone. My view is that Mike has expressed a personal opinion which has been seized upon by the media to imply Association support overall.
    Bill, possibly because he said "that's my personal view as chairman" It can't or shouldn't be both, surely?
    This is how it feels

  18. #617
    Coaching Staff KWJ's Avatar
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    Can someone point me in the direction of the report or a summary of 20+ pages please!?

  19. #618
    @hibs.net private member Mikey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Wright Jnr View Post
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    Can someone point me in the direction of the report or a summary of 20+ pages please!?
    Here you go.......

    http://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?2...an-2015-Report

  20. #619
    @hibs.net private member Bostonhibby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by w pilton hibby View Post
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    Apologies if already posted. Just catching up with my reading

    http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.co...bies-1-3671794

    Glenn Ross has called for the Hibs Shareholders Association, of which he is a member, to be revived. He said: “It’s been lying dormant for years because the ordinary shareholders have no say in how the club is run. It is down to two men, Sir Tom Farmer and Rod Petrie.

    “This new scheme should carry a serious health warning. Hibs have brought in millions in transfers and property deals over the years yet we find ourselves being asked now to pay off the debt to the majority shareholder. Hibs fans don’t trust them to run the club properly. They are not football people and never have been. They should do the right thing and hand the club over with no dodgy deals and leave us to bring in new investors. There are a lot of people in the Hibs community willing to help.”
    Cheers for posting that. Never knew it was around. I suppose the proper way for anyone to represent the views of the shareholders that aren't STF and petrie is to get hold of the list from the club then contact them to see what their views actually are before speaking for them?

    The 5 shareholders I am in touch with all intend to buy shares directly through the clubs current plan. None of us have heard from or required the association for at least 15 years we reckon but did feel most shareholders managed to show how they felt at the AGM.

    "I did not need any persuasion to play for such a great club, the Hibs result is still one of the first I look for"

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  21. #620
    @hibs.net private member greenginger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bostonhibby View Post
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    Cheers for posting that. Never knew it was around. I suppose the proper way for anyone to represent the views of the shareholders that aren't STF and petrie is to get hold of the list from the club then contact them to see what their views actually are before speaking for them?

    The 5 shareholders I am in touch with all intend to buy shares directly through the clubs current plan. None of us have heard from or required the association for at least 15 years we reckon but did feel most shareholders managed to show how they felt at the AGM.

    The share holders association Glenn Ross was referring to related to the now liquidated holding company Duff and Gray set up to buy Hibernian F C in 1987. That's the company we all bought shares in.

    If Ross wants to hold a meeting for a dead company's shareholders , its a free country, but I'll give it a miss.

  22. #621
    Coaching Staff Ronniekirk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by greenginger View Post
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    The share holders association Glenn Ross was referring to related to the now liquidated holding company Duff and Gray set up to buy Hibernian F C in 1987. That's the company we all bought shares in.

    If Ross wants to hold a meeting for a dead company's shareholders , its a free country, but I'll give it a miss.
    No one disputes that The club has been mismanaged over a number of years which culminated in Relegation and drops in revenue and crowds Petrie presided over that and I would rather he wasn't at the club if truth be told .

    But there is no doubt that since Leeann has arrived , We are mow a club on the up,,but a club still scarred by the events of the past number of years .However to try and say that if we invest in shares now we are paying off debt, when the club have made it clear that money will go towards funding Sporting Ambition is twisting things .it will be easy with the two fans reps now on board to have greater insight into how business is done and accounts are there for all to see .

    I will be investing and despite my view which I still hold re Petrie it is time to move on and back what the club are trying to achieve and get some feel good factor and momentum going instead of looking back and spreading mistrust and trying to sabotage things especially when no credible alternatives were put forward by the rambiing incoherent Mr Pia at the AGM.

    I did note at the end of the Scotsman Article that Pat Stanton said he had friends in both camps and he wasn't going to tell anyone which side to take or words to that effect ,and asking fans to consider carefully before deciding .Is he not allowed to come out and back the new proposal or is he just sitting on the fence being diplomatic I will be investing anyway but would of liked someone of Pats Stature to be fully endorsing it

  23. #622
    @hibs.net private member Bostonhibby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by greenginger View Post
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    The share holders association Glenn Ross was referring to related to the now liquidated holding company Duff and Gray set up to buy Hibernian F C in 1987. That's the company we all bought shares in.

    If Ross wants to hold a meeting for a dead company's shareholders , its a free country, but I'll give it a miss.
    Keep me the chair next to you

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  24. #623
    @hibs.net private member jacomo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by w pilton hibby View Post
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    Interesting thing for me is that David Hardie (the reporter) can find and then get a negative quote from an (ex) member of a defunct organisation.

    And David Hardie is one of the better ones at that media outlet.

  25. #624
    Quote Originally Posted by Ronniekirk View Post
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    I did note at the end of the Scotsman Article that Pat Stanton said he had friends in both camps and he wasn't going to tell anyone which side to take or words to that effect ,and asking fans to consider carefully before deciding .Is he not allowed to come out and back the new proposal or is he just sitting on the fence being diplomatic I will be investing anyway but would of liked someone of Pats Stature to be fully endorsing it
    FWIW im pleased that Pat is sitting on the fence or being diplomatic.

    I feel that he was slightly in danger of tarnishing his reputation by allowing himself to be aligned with various different groups from "Petrie out" onwards. When certain of those groups have come under scrutiny its maybe made Pat think twice about committing now to any particular group. Im quite happy for Pat to be above the mundane concerns of mere mortals.
    Last edited by Brizo; 31-01-2015 at 11:30 AM.

  26. #625
    @hibs.net private member jacomo's Avatar
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    Stuart Bathgate pens another hatchet job...

    http://www.scotsman.com/sport/footba...-agm-1-3673360

    The contrast between they way this has been reported and the fawning coverage given to Foundation of Hearts last year is telling.

    We have to accept that we live in a hostile media environment. I don't want any Hibs fans to be distracted by this bull.

  27. #626
    Quote Originally Posted by jacomoseven View Post
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    Stuart Bathgate pens another hatchet job...

    http://www.scotsman.com/sport/footba...-agm-1-3673360

    The contrast between they way this has been reported and the fawning coverage given to Foundation of Hearts last year is telling.

    We have to accept that we live in a hostile media environment. I don't want any Hibs fans to be distracted by this bull.
    I wonder who is feeding Bathgate this pish.......
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  28. #627
    @hibs.net private member Bostonhibby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jacomoseven View Post
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    Stuart Bathgate pens another hatchet job...

    http://www.scotsman.com/sport/footba...-agm-1-3673360

    The contrast between they way this has been reported and the fawning coverage given to Foundation of Hearts last year is telling.

    We have to accept that we live in a hostile media environment. I don't want any Hibs fans to be distracted by this bull.
    Scotsman and EEN boycott? I have.

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  29. #628
    Still solvent banchoryhibs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by matty_f View Post
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    That last quote is ridiculous, it really is.

    Where do they think that money went? Really?

    Property deals??

    We've re-built an entire stadium and built a training centre while STF has been here, what other club has achieved that in Scottish football in that time?

    Do they think that there's no costs involved in those things?

    We've spent the transfer fees that came in on the football club, either by clearing debt (where the money had already been spent, and therefore needed repaying), or by running the club, or in re-investment in players.

    There's nobody at the club that's pocketed the cash or made money out of it.

    Absurd statement.
    100% agree
    perhaps it's time for the "silent majority" to be much more vocal in supporting the club, including those (Petrie) who have made mistakes and error of judgement along the way. We all do this from time to time

  30. #629
    Day Tripper matty_f's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jacomoseven View Post
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    Stuart Bathgate pens another hatchet job...

    http://www.scotsman.com/sport/footba...-agm-1-3673360

    The contrast between they way this has been reported and the fawning coverage given to Foundation of Hearts last year is telling.

    We have to accept that we live in a hostile media environment. I don't want any Hibs fans to be distracted by this bull.
    He's a disgrace, what a load of nonsense.

    In many ways the opposition to the share scheme reminds me of the Yes campaign last year. The amount of noise being generated by one side is disproportionate to the feelings of the majority (as far as I can see from the, admittedly limited, response to the share scheme at the AGM and on the poll on here).

    HoH mustered 30-odd folk to protest, why should Hibs hold everything up for such a small section of the support when over 20 times that number have expressed an interest in participating as is? Especially so when the questions have been addressed publically - just because HoH etc don't like the answers doesn't mean that there are no answers.

    How long do the club need to cover the same ground, or cover that ground only to find the goalposts moved and an objection raised on some other spurious grounds?

    HoH, as with everyone, are entitled to their opinion, and like the rest of us they have a choice in whether to dip their hands in their pockets and participate in the issue, or not to - nobody's going to criticise them for not buying into it, it's their right to do as they please.

    Similarly, the rest of us have a right to go ahead if we want to - from what I can see more people want to go ahead than don't,and so the club should be pressing on as planned, IMHO.

    Bathgate paints a picture that's somewhat out of synch with reality, IMHO, and he lends far more credibility to the opposition to the plan than that opposition merits based on it's size.
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  31. #630
    Interesting quote from an otherwise predictable Bathgate piece:

    Experience from other clubs – most relevantly, Hibs’ Edinburgh neighbours Hearts – teaches us that only in the event of a life-threatening crisis do fans really dig deep. In the winter of 2012, when Vladimir Romanov warned that Hearts were at risk of closure, supporters raised around £1m. No matter that HSL have already received expressions of interest from 700 fans, it seems unlikely that they will raise anything close to that six-figure sum, never mind the hypothetical maximum of £2.5m.

    This is a key issue and we shall see.

    But I don't think that any amount of scheme cheerleading or condemnation from fans groups will have much more influence on individual decisions at this point.

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