Hands On Hibs - No Substance. Unhelpful Voice

[DarlingtonHibee]

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How about all the details? Thinking things through is great as is transparency. Especially when you're asking supporters to stump up an extra £200 a year on top of Premier League season ticket prices for watching Hibs play Alloa and Cowdenbeath.

Supporting Hibs is optional, you either do or you don't.

There are posters on here who were involved in saving Hibs all those years ago.

STF worked with great Hibs men like Kenny Mclean snr, and quiety went about securing the long term future of our club.

This HOH, Buy Hibs, I'm afraid to say is just the opposite, not helped by an individual briefing the press.

No doubt there will be a stage show at the AGM, but Kano, 99 per cent of Hibs fans think it's all a bit tragic, and can I say the Jambos are loving it on Sickback.

So if you feel you are being duped as a Hibs fan, then stop attending Easter Road, you are not welcome by the vast majority of Hibs fans.

However, as things continue to improve on and off the pitch, you will be back.

[Brightside]

Kano - whats your name?

[green day]

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The point I am making is, what details would make a difference here?

The evidence is that our debt was around £9.5 million - you can see and check that.

Our debt is now £5 million and payable to the holding compnay. No one has security over our assets anymore.

£4.5 million is effectively being written off and the current owners are making available new shares that would half the value of their shareholdings and half the influence they have.

So, what would be in the detail of the £5m that would trouble you - do you reckon the interest rate might be 100 % and payable next year?

You lot keep looking for the next little thing that might be a con even though there is a pile of evidence that you are wrong. There is no leeway or angle left here for anyone not to be doing something that isn't in the best interest of the club and its fans.

All of this is how I read it too.

What concerns me is the HOH mob dividing supporters, making threatening noises etc - when we have the oportunity to own over half the club.

That, and the slightly difficult nature of buying shares (except through HSL) might scupper the whole thing.

But I guess thats what Brad and Kano want all along?

Takes the bigger man to admit you are wrong and throw in the towel - but I cant see this lot doing it.

[kano]

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The point I am making is, what details would make a difference here?

The evidence is that our debt was around £9.5 million - you can see and check that.

Our debt is now £5 million and payable to the holding compnay. No one has security over our assets anymore.

£4.5 million is effectively being written off and the current owners are making available new shares that would half the value of their shareholdings and half the influence they have.

So, what would be in the detail of the £5m that would trouble you - do you reckon the interest rate might be 100 % and payable next year?

You lot keep looking for the next little thing that might be a con even though there is a pile of evidence that you are wrong. There is no leeway or angle left here for anyone not to be doing something that isn't in the best interest of the club and its fans.

It would make all the difference if they come out and show us. Who knows, HOH would maybe back it if it was transparent.

[Lurkio]

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Thast's fine, but the likelihood is that you are not right in your suggestion - nothing at all from any of the statements points to it. Using other clubs doesn't help, the situations and arrangements are not the same.

The holding company ended up with a real debt of £9.5 million or so, the bank received all or most of its money.

If they paid a loeer sum to the bank there would have been no need to show the higher figure and then swap it for equity.

From a Sky Sports News report on 9th December

"The Edinburgh entrepreneur is believed to be nearing an agreement with Hibs’ bankers that see him pay out a seven-figure settlement amount and clear the way for a possible takover.
Sky Sports reporter Luke Shanley said: "I understand that Hibernian have done a deal with the bank to wipe out their debt. The deal has been signed with the bank but it could take up to a month for it to be fully ratified.


"Tom Farmer will contribute about a quarter of the debt with the rest being written off with clauses in the deal with the bank. The club are yet to release their financial figures or hold an AGM.


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The above is consistent with what I have said about the Bank accepting a significantly reduced sum and the claimed write offs of real money being the Bank's and not the holding company.

[Andy74]

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Did you not read the full thread? HOH statement makes it clear.

It doesn't, I'm sure you can clarify though.

[DarlingtonHibee]

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It would make all the difference if they come out and show us. Who knows, HOH would maybe back it if it was transparent.

Dont think so Kano, they are enjoying their little publicity stunt.

[Andy74]

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From a Sky Sports News report on 9th December

"The Edinburgh entrepreneur is believed to be nearing an agreement with Hibs’ bankers that see him pay out a seven-figure settlement amount and clear the way for a possible takover.
Sky Sports reporter Luke Shanley said: "I understand that Hibernian have done a deal with the bank to wipe out their debt. The deal has been signed with the bank but it could take up to a month for it to be fully ratified.


"Tom Farmer will contribute about a quarter of the debt with the rest being written off with clauses in the deal with the bank. The club are yet to release their financial figures or hold an AGM.


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The above is consistent with what I have said about the Bank accepting a significantly reduced sum and the claimed write offs of real money being the Bank's and not the holding company.

Speculation. The above is consistent with what some people got in their head might happen. It was not likely then and the detail that has since been provided by the club on the holding company debt for equity swap bears out that this speculation was not correct.

[green day]

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From a Sky Sports News report on 9th December

"The Edinburgh entrepreneur is believed to be nearing an agreement with Hibs’ bankers that see him pay out a seven-figure settlement amount and clear the way for a possible takover.
Sky Sports reporter Luke Shanley said: "I understand that Hibernian have done a deal with the bank to wipe out their debt. The deal has been signed with the bank but it could take up to a month for it to be fully ratified.


"Tom Farmer will contribute about a quarter of the debt with the rest being written off with clauses in the deal with the bank. The club are yet to release their financial figures or hold an AGM.


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The above is consistent with what I have said about the Bank accepting a significantly reduced sum and the claimed write offs of real money being the Bank's and not the holding company.

So what?

So STF didnt write it all off himself, but put in place a method of gettign it written off.

Do you think the deals Dundee Utd and Aberdeen did were all that different? The banks want out the football business and write off debt - are you being deliberately obtuse or are you just thick?

[CropleyWasGod]

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It would make all the difference if they come out and show us. Who knows, HOH would maybe back it if it was transparent.

Show us what?

Can you be precise?

Maybe somebody will ask the questions on your behalf at the AGM.

[Andy74]

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It would make all the difference if they come out and show us. Who knows, HOH would maybe back it if it was transparent.

Show you what? Specifically what is troubling you?

[kano]

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Supporting Hibs is optional, you either do or you don't.

There are posters on here who were involved in saving Hibs all those years ago.

STF worked with great Hibs men like Kenny Mclean snr, and quiety went about securing the long term future of our club.

This HOH, Buy Hibs, I'm afraid to say is just the opposite, not helped by an individual briefing the press.

No doubt there will be a stage show at the AGM, but Kano, 99 per cent of Hibs fans think it's all a bit tragic, and can I say the Jambos are loving it on Sickback.

So if you feel you are being duped as a Hibs fan, then stop attending Easter Road, you are not welcome by the vast majority of Hibs fans.

However, as things continue to improve on and off the pitch, you will be back.

So you've spoken to 99 per cent of Hibs fans? Just getting silly now! Im not interested in Hearts or what their daft fans are saying. One of the problems of Hibs fans in recent years is worrying about what was going on in Gorgie. Half this forum had them liquidated never to return, while our club went from one disaster to another, Im only interested in Hibs. Ill be at Palmerston on Saturday fell free to come across and tell me im not welcome.

[kano]

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Kano - whats your name?

You wanting an autograph? You show me yours ill show you mine?

[kano]

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Show us what?

Can you be precise?

Maybe somebody will ask the questions on your behalf at the AGM.

Right last time.... show us the lot thats all the details of the deal between the bank and the new debt to the holding company. Maybe ill ask a question at the AGM!

[Mikey]

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Did you manage to find out who HOH got their independent financial advice from?

Bumped. Just in case you missed it.

[CropleyWasGod]

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Right last time.... show us the lot thats all the details of the deal between the bank and the new debt to the holding company. Maybe ill ask a question at the AGM!

If it's important to you, you should.

Would you accept the answer, though?

[Mikey]

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Right last time.... show us the lot thats all the details of the deal between the bank and the new debt to the holding company. Maybe ill ask a question at the AGM!

Posts 6 and 7 here kinda explain why we won't get that......

http://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?2...nd-Share-Offer

[CB_NO3]

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I support RP and STF ,so that blows one of your quotes out the water......in fact,every hibs fan I've talked to,including Saturday's game supports it !!

Do you really trust Petrie? They got us in 17 million pound debt, pre car park sale. They got us in 9 million debt pre bank deal, all this with being a complete failure on the park. Am sitting on the fence here. I like the idea of fan ownership but I dont trust Petrie to run a football club.

Just say we rack up 10 millions pounds worth of debt over the next 10 years (history suggests it will happen) then how do we get out of it?

My perfect scenario would be to pay Petrie off using the 2.5 million working capital. Surely 500k would see it ok? That way I trust Dempster has the right resources to get on with the job and we can bring in a neutral chairman.

[Andy74]

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Right last time.... show us the lot thats all the details of the deal between the bank and the new debt to the holding company. Maybe ill ask a question at the AGM!

The payment to the bank will remain confidential - it is commercially sensitive to the bank. The outcome though is no bank debt and no security over our assets. That's £6.3 million or so worth.

Specifically, what could be an issue for you in this?

The holding company debt, which was £3 million is now £5 million but this includes whatever was paid to the bank to cover the £6.3 million which is now not due. Their toal debt was £9.5 million and they have swapped £4.5 million for new equity.

The terms of the £5 million loan we don't know.

Specifically, what could be in there that would trouble you against writing off £4.5 million?

I don't think you know what detail you want or what difference it would make - can you give us an idea of what you think might be hidden? It would need to be cracking to outweigh the write off and the share dilution, but crack on, I'm all ears.

[kano]

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Bumped. Just in case you missed it.

Yip.

[Bad Martini]

Too much energy expelled in this thread debating the undebatable.

The bottom line;
============
LESS debt is good.............unless you live in the strange parallel universe where Yamathematics is alive and well, where they believe debt you owe yourself isnt really debt and truckloads of Brazillian World Cup stars are just around the corner on the bus through Gorgski.

It would appear we owe less money today than we did last year. I dont care a **** how this was cleverly achieved. Once we settle our debts or at least control them fully, we will have more money....

MORE money is good....always.

ENDOF

[Mikey]

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Yip.

Is the bit about obtaining independent financial advice untrue then? You're certainly doing all you can to dodge it.

[The Falcon]

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HOH do not want to buy the club, wear blazers or a seat on the board. Please keep up.

But they would if they wanted to, they just dot want to?

I am trying to keep up but I am pretty thick unfortunately. I need bright guys like you to explain things.

[Peevemor]

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Do you really trust Petrie? They got us in 17 million pound debt, pre car park sale. They got us in 9 million debt pre bank deal, all this with being a complete failure on the park. Am sitting on the fence here. I like the idea of fan ownership but I dont trust Petrie to run a football club.

Just say we rack up 10 millions pounds worth of debt over the next 10 years (history suggests it will happen) then how do we get out of it?

My perfect scenario would be to pay Petrie off using the 2.5 million working capital. Surely 500k would see it ok? That way I trust Dempster has the right resources to get on with the job and we can bring in a neutral chairman.

I suppose it depends how many new stands and training centres we build.

[kano]

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Is the bit about obtaining independent financial advice untrue then? You're certainly doing all you can to dodge it.

It's certainly true. Anyway I'm off, any longer on here and I'll need to buy a few cats.

[Bleeds green]

I Cringe every time I see a HOH spokesperson in the paper or on the TV with there scowling faces and trouble making attitudes


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[BSEJVT]

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Sound mate, ill give you a shout when we swap the hoodies for blazers and you can let us know if we're a supporters group.

Tells me everything I need to know about you

I doubt very much whether many of your fellow supporters from the Hibs Supporters Association would like to be described as Blazers

Why don't you round up the rest of your group and go and play down the swing parks again?

You will probably need to get back to school now as the lunch bell will have rung

[CB_NO3]

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I suppose it depends how many new stands and training centres we build.

Dont mention the shambles that is the training centre. We struggle to run it. Our under 20s rent Ainslie Park to play games. If the weather is really bad we train at ER making a mess of the pitch. It was a great idea but we never done it properly.

[Mikey]

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It's certainly true. Anyway I'm off, any longer on here and I'll need to buy a few cats.

Jings, what a coincidence. You did a runner the last time the (still unanswered) questions got too much for you.

[Mikey]

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Dont mention the shambles that is the training centre. We struggle to run it. Our under 20s rent Ainslie Park to play games. If the weather is really bad we train at ER making a mess of the pitch. It was a great idea but we never done it properly.

We hope to do another visit down to the training centre around Easter. Get your name down for it and you'll see that this is far from the truth.

A few hundred people have done the visit now (from several supporter's groups, not just hibs.net) and not one of them has reported back with those problems.