Hands On Hibs - No Substance. Unhelpful Voice

[bigwheel]

I notice (via twitter) HOH have come out against the HSL initiative today. No real surprise, as to endorse it, complete disempowers them. What is troubling me more if the deeply negative and nasty nature of the tone of their communications.

They are basically implying now that this scheme is a scam. To me, this group, set up to be a group of activists to seek truth and justice for Hibs (my take on their original intent)...have embarrassed themselves through a whole suite of wild claims.. None of these have turned out to be true. In fact, the HSL proposal makes specific commitments on the future ownership of the ground and academy..

I am tired by their agenda now. It feels much more about their ego, than what is right for our football club. They need to think deeply about what they wanted to achieve, and assess it against what HSL is setting about to do...just because it's not their way, doesn't mean it won't create the right outcome...if they continue on this path of divisive communication, it will do nothing to create unity across Hibs fans...Stick to doing community good, such as the food bank collection (amazing achievement!), as your attempts to get involved in the ownership affairs of our clubs are far from helpful or constructive.

If any HOH activities wants to discuss this one to one feel free to PM me...as currently, I have no sense you are doing anything helpful for our club.

[BroxburnHibee]

Their whole approach was farcical from the beginning.

[easty]

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Their whole approach was farcical from the beginning.

That's my take on it too. I thought they were full of ***** before, and I still think they're full of *****, I don't see that changing.

[Brightside]

They are calling him Farmer Tom...its a disgrace to be honest.

[bighairyfaeleith]

bunch of fannies

[Capt Mainwaring]

Baseless allegations from a group with personal agendas getting in the way of whats best for Hibernian FC. Disappointing

[Pretty Boy]

Their key reason for existing has proven to be a lie without foundation.

They are desperately scrambling about trying to make themselves relevant. Better to bow out now with whatever grace they have imo.

[Bronson]

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They are calling him Farmer Tom...its a disgrace to be honest.

Incredibly disrespectful. Do they think ridiculing the man who saved us from extinction is any way to win fans around?

They're a hindrance to the club moving forward IMO, very cynical about hibs' proposals yet never seemed to be able to show any substance to their own ideas.

All the key figures they had backing them originally (Pat Stanton, Jackie Mac) have backed this new hibs share issue, that pretty much renders HOH irrelevant now.

[PatHead]

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Incredibly disrespectful. Do they think ridiculing the man who saved us from extinction is any way to win fans around?

They're a hindrance to the club moving forward IMO, very cynical about hibs' proposals yet never seemed to be able to show any substance to their own ideas.

All the key figures they had backing them originally (Pat Stanton, Jackie Mac) have backed this new hibs share issue, that pretty much renders HOH irrelevant now.

Is that not BuyHibs?

[grunt]

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Better to bow out now with whatever grace they have imo.

Think this is impossible.

[Hibby_Paul]

Who are some of the names behind this group now? Any well known faces?

Agree they are not helping anything at moment!

[Glorious St Pat]

I think their contention was that money raised from the initiative would partly go to repaying the 5m debt rather than "sporting ambition". They claim this from meetings with Dempster. What are peoples thought on this?

[Bronson]

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Is that not BuyHibs?

Hmm, you could be right actually. Although I'm sure Jackie Mac supported HOH.

[grunt]

For those of you who don't do Facebook. The emphasis in bold is my own.

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PLEASE SHARE

THIS IS NOT COMMUNITY OWNERSHIP. IT'S A SHAKE DOWN.

Hands On Hibs have today written to Hibernian owner Tom Farmer confirming our decision to reject the Farmer/Petrie proposals published last week. HOH made this decision after considering independent financial advice and consulting our activists and supporters. ...

NO TRANSPARENCY

Last Friday, as part of our consultation process, Hands On Hibs met with the board of Hibernian Supporters Limited. HSL is a body created by the football club Board to promote the Farmer/Petrie proposals. During the course of this meeting it was confirmed that no details of the £5million debt to the holding company (Farmer/Petrie) would be made available to the supporters. HOH reiterate our position that without total transparency no fans should donate to this scheme.

NOT AN INVESTMENT, JUST ANOTHER DONATION.

The board of HSL agreed with Hands On Hibs that the Farmer/Petrie proposals do not represent a sound investment. In reality fans are being asked to donate money toward the club's running costs. While the club claims none of the money donated by fans will go to existing shareholders the club's Chief Executive confirmed to HOH at Friday's meeting that some of this money will be used to repay the debt to the holding company (Farmer/Petrie).

The argument that Hibs fans should donate money to this scheme just because we are Hibs fans is spurious. Manipulating the emotional ties supporters have with Hibernian Football Club is wrong. When at least some of that money is being used to pay a debt (the details of which are secret) to a multi millionaire it is immoral.

HIBS DESERVE BETTER

Presenting the Farmer/Petrie proposals as a take it or leave it proposition is a serious error on the part of the owner and the board. Hands On Hibs remain convinced the only way to achieve unity between the supporters and the club is for Tom Farmer to personally intervene in this change process. Without his engagement in this process it will fail.

The Farmer/Petrie proposals do not represent community ownership or a realistic beginning in that journey. Hibernian Football Club is at a critical juncture. We reject the arguments of HSL that this might not be a good deal but it is the only deal available. Hands On Hibs will not accept a bad deal for Hibs supporters and this is a bad deal.

Hands On Hibs commend the Hibernian supporters already taking action against these proposals (see image below). HOH remain committed to working with other Hibs supporters to achieve the very best deal possible for Hibernian Football Club in the long term, the supporters and broader community.

And this rather classic reply to some criticism:

Just a reminder HOH are happy to engage with Hibs fans however people making insulting and provocative posts are wasting their time. People will notice we do not go on other Hibs fans groups pages abusing them. That is because we respect their right to support the Board and Tom Farmer. All we ask is that they respect our right to campaign for change. Thank you.

[Mikey]

Do we know who gave HOH their independent financial advice? It would be good if they could come on here and explain their thinking.

[Winston Ingram]

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I notice (via twitter) HOH have come out against the HSL initiative today. No real surprise, as to endorse it, complete disempowers them. What is troubling me more if the deeply negative and nasty nature of the tone of their communications.

They are basically implying now that this scheme is a scam. To me, this group, set up to be a group of activists to seek truth and justice for Hibs (my take on their original intent)...have embarrassed themselves through a whole suite of wild claims.. None of these have turned out to be true. In fact, the HSL proposal makes specific commitments on the future ownership of the ground and academy..

I am tired by their agenda now. It feels much more about their ego, than what is right for our football club. They need to think deeply about what they wanted to achieve, and assess it against what HSL is setting about to do...just because it's not their way, doesn't mean it won't create the right outcome...if they continue on this path of divisive communication, it will do nothing to create unity across Hibs fans...Stick to doing community good, such as the food bank collection (amazing achievement!), as your attempts to get involved in the ownership affairs of our clubs are far from helpful or constructive.

If any HOH activities wants to discuss this one to one feel free to PM me...as currently, I have no sense you are doing anything helpful for our club.

Totally agree with this. They give me the impression that they are a total bunch of mouthy amateurs who speak before putting their brain in gear.

After the accounts were published last week they came out with a huge Twitter rant about how terrible all this was and then finished by saying they planned to get financial advice about what it all meant. Anyone with half a brain cell would have got the advice first, then if needed, make a statement.

I wouldn't trust that lot to run a bath.

[Wilson]

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I wouldn't trust that lot to run a bath.

They wouldn't run a bath. They'd let someone else run it and then claim that person was creaming the suds from the top of it.

[marinello59]

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I think their contention was that money raised from the initiative would partly go to repaying the 5m debt rather than "sporting ambition". They claim this from meetings with Dempster. What are peoples thought on this?

Why don't you ask the 'leading light in HoH' that you spoke to the other day, the one that convinced you the whole thing was a con. Do you really want peoples thoughts or are you just taking a break from your trolling on your Anniversary thread?

[Danderhall Hibs]

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Do we know who gave HOH their independent financial advice? It would be good if they could come on here and explain their thinking.

Maybe he can do us a deal on advice to buy shares.

[jacomo]

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I think their contention was that money raised from the initiative would partly go to repaying the 5m debt rather than "sporting ambition". They claim this from meetings with Dempster. What are peoples thought on this?

The club have said that the property it owns is worth £25m and is owned by the company. There is also a debt of £5m which is owed by the company.

Most rational people understand that a debt has to be repaid at some point. Now, it turns out that this debt is owed to another company owned by Farmer, not a bank, but the principle remains the same. In this case, I think we can assume that the terms of this debt are more favourable than they would be from a bank.

Now the owner has offered supporters a chance to own up to 51% of the club for a total amount of £2.5m. Supporters can choose whether or not they wish to get involved, but - as the club themselves have said - they should understand that this is unlikely to be an investment that will make you any money.

The process to buy these shares is a little complicated, but the idea seems straightforward.

What do HoH want? What is their problem with this? A month ago it was all rumours about asset stripping, but that has been shown to be nonsense.

Either they are fools or they are deliberately muck-raking.

EDIT: The sporting ambition bit. Presumably Hibs has a business plan which shows how it can operate a football club AND meet its debt obligations. But it's true that we will struggle to make ends meet while we are out of the top tier... this is my main reservation for doing this fan ownership thing now. Still, it seems fairly clear that shares bought by fans = cash for club! NOT cash for Farmer.

[grunt]

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Either they are fools or they are deliberately muck-raking.

Or both?

[bigwheel]

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Do we know who gave HOH their independent financial advice? It would be good if they could come on here and explain their thinking.

That's just it though...it's all accusation and dirt slinging without any back up or substance ...

[Iain G]

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They wouldn't run a bath. They'd let someone else run it and then claim that person was creaming the suds from the top of it.

Maybe they should put in an offer to buy The Rangers, sounds about the same level as Dave King and the Bear Faced Three...

[NadeAteMyLunch!]

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I think their contention was that money raised from the initiative would partly go to repaying the 5m debt rather than "sporting ambition". They claim this from meetings with Dempster. What are peoples thought on this?

They also "claimed" that STF was stifling money from us and going to move us to Straiton. They are full of unsubstantiated bull****

[Ronniekirk]

They are just alienating themselves further from the majority of the support ,you would think by now the penny would have dropped .

[Dashing Bob S]

I don't think some of their utterances or confrontational style has been helpful. However, I think they are right to highlight that if the 51% threshold of fan in shares is not reached, then all investors are simply (at least in the short term) contributing to the running costs of the club. Fine, if those are players transfers/contracts, many will invest gladly and should be encouraged to do so. If though, the running costs are bank loans etc, then it becomes a different issue. Many fans will baulk at paying this, and rightly so. More clarification and guarantees needed.

[CallumLaidlaw]

[matty_f]

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That's a disgrace, it really is.

[SunshineOnLeith]

Hands on Hibs is about 4 or 5 morons with nothing better to do than shout and bawl like toddlers until someone pays them attention. Anyone who takes them seriously is every bit as stupid as they are.

[Gerard]

IMO the HSL is a good one for our club and the fans. I will be supporting this plan as I believe in it and the people who are part of HSL. HOH IMO is not putting a credible option and as such I can noy support it.