Youth Development Policies - Who's Are Succeeding ?

[Sergey]

For as long as I've followed Hibs we've always had a youth development policy that was the pride of the land and put other clubs to shame. While I'm not decrying the current young lads that have broken into our current squad, it seems to me that other (lesser) clubs are surpassing what we're doing.

Hamilton Accies are one that springs to mind.

Anyone else?

[Pretty Boy]

Dundee United are the most obvious example in recent years imo. They have brought through, or brought in, some cracking young players

[oconnors_strip]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

For as long as I've followed Hibs we've always had a youth development policy that was the pride of the land and put other clubs to shame. While I'm not decrying the current young lads that have broken into our current squad, it seems to me that other (lesser) clubs are surpassing what we're doing.

Hamilton Accies are one that springs to mind.

Anyone else?

Motherwell's average age of their bench yesterday was 19.5 years old and 5 came through the elite academy

[truehibernian]

Lots of factors involved Sergey but for me it has been the revolving managerial door that has stalled youth development - when a new manager comes in, rarely do they look/evaluate the youth sides when thinking about how to change things, instead successive Hibs managers have turned to the loan market which has been both terrible (other than Leigh) and has suffocated the youth players development.

Was Pa Kujabi better than Callum Booth ? Was Roy O'Donovan better than Ross Caldwell ? Was Tom Soares better than Spoony ? Was Matt Thornhill better than Sean Welsh ?

Young players have fragile mentalities in football - which gets further damaged when there are limited opportunities and then managers who don't see youth as the way forward - it becomes disheartening and needs a strong resolve and behind the scenes coaching to get them through that - Donald Park I am certain was a huge crutch for young players like Derek, Garry and others when they were in and out the side......that batch of players were brought in by Williamson, so you have to credit him a little, but were brought on by positive coaching and management style from Mowbray and Venus.

Stubbs is very very similar to Mowbray in many ways - he is sticking by players, choosing youth when required, making allowances for them in defeat......but I am sure makes demands off them.

This means players like Gardiner, Mulhall, Lewis Allan, Scott Martin, etc can look forward with a bit of positivity that one day Stubbs might say 'you're in this week'.

It's players like Booth that I worry for - he was a terrific talent, lost his way through no real fault of his own, but I think he is now no longer hungry - just my opinion, may be wrong.

But I think under Stubbs we will see young players getting chances and getting good coaching.

[Del Boy]

I think Hamilton with McCarthy and mccarthur plus a number of current players and united with goodwillie, Allan, Russell, Gauld and Armstrong have been most successful in last few years.

[Iggy Pope]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I think Hamilton with McCarthy and mccarthur plus a number of current players and united with goodwillie, Allan, Russell, Gauld and Armstrong have been most successful in last few years.

Not all of those came through their Youth policy.

[Iggy Pope]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Motherwell's average age of their bench yesterday was 19.5 years old and 5 came through the elite academy

They do appear to be struggling though. Have they really benefitted from youth any time recently?

[Del Boy]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Not all of those came through their Youth policy.

Armstrong was signed from ICT before he'd played a first team game but the rest did. Plus Souttar and Dow who play regularly in first team.

[Smartie]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Lots of factors involved Sergey but for me it has been the revolving managerial door that has stalled youth development - when a new manager comes in, rarely do they look/evaluate the youth sides when thinking about how to change things, instead successive Hibs managers have turned to the loan market which has been both terrible (other than Leigh) and has suffocated the youth players development.

Was Pa Kujabi better than Callum Booth ? Was Roy O'Donovan better than Ross Caldwell ? Was Tom Soares better than Spoony ? Was Matt Thornhill better than Sean Welsh ?

Young players have fragile mentalities in football - which gets further damaged when there are limited opportunities and then managers who don't see youth as the way forward - it becomes disheartening and needs a strong resolve and behind the scenes coaching to get them through that - Donald Park I am certain was a huge crutch for young players like Derek, Garry and others when they were in and out the side......that batch of players were brought in by Williamson, so you have to credit him a little, but were brought on by positive coaching and management style from Mowbray and Venus.

Stubbs is very very similar to Mowbray in many ways - he is sticking by players, choosing youth when required, making allowances for them in defeat......but I am sure makes demands off them.

This means players like Gardiner, Mulhall, Lewis Allan, Scott Martin, etc can look forward with a bit of positivity that one day Stubbs might say 'you're in this week'.

It's players like Booth that I worry for - he was a terrific talent, lost his way through no real fault of his own, but I think he is now no longer hungry - just my opinion, may be wrong.

But I think under Stubbs we will see young players getting chances and getting good coaching.

Booth's biggest problem is that he plays the same position as Lewis Stevenson. Lewis has been arguably our best player this season, is very consistent and in spite of being wholehearted and never ducking out of challenges never seems to get injured. This has led to limited opportunities for Booth.

When Booth has come into the team he has performed well and hasn't shown to me any of the frailties you mention. I can't see him hanging around to play second-fiddle for long though and I could see him being a success elsewhere.

I agree with your points re Stubbs and young players though and it's great to see. I think that Stubbs probably feels a bit more secure in his position (due to a good relationship with his immediate superior) in order to allow him to work with our young players in a more constructive way than his predecessors did. They always seemed to be in crisis mode and all too often went for short-term fixes which were detrimental to our young players.

[Iggy Pope]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Armstrong was signed from ICT before he'd played a first team game but the rest did. Plus Souttar and Dow who play regularly in first team.

Hats off to their scouts as well then.

[Iggy Pope]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Booth's biggest problem is that he plays the same position as Lewis Stevenson. Lewis has been arguably our best player this season, is very consistent and in spite of being wholehearted and never ducking out of challenges never seems to get injured. This has led to limited opportunities for Booth.

When Booth has come into the team he has performed well and hasn't shown to me any of the frailties you mention. I can't see him hanging around to play second-fiddle for long though and I could see him being a success elsewhere.

I agree with your points re Stubbs and young players though and it's great to see. I think that Stubbs probably feels a bit more secure in his position (due to a good relationship with his immediate superior) in order to allow him to work with our young players in a more constructive way than his predecessors did. They always seemed to be in crisis mode and all too often went for short-term fixes which were detrimental to our young players.

Booth doesn't seem to be favoured for U20 games either though. I think his time has gone.

[Green Cabbage 7]

Was talking to
A rep who comes into my work, he mentioned a 28 year old scottish coach who is doing wonders at Valencia apparently, also credited him with the crop of players that had been coming through at Dundee utd, the coaches name is Ian Cathro

[Smartie]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Booth doesn't seem to be favoured for U20 games either though. I think his time has gone.

Really?

I didn't know that.

That's disappointing and it doesn't look good for him then. Shame, as I've always liked him and heard good things about how he did at Raith last year too. I thought that all he was needing was a run of games but I may be wrong.

[Mibbes Aye]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Was talking to
A rep who comes into my work, he mentioned a 28 year old scottish coach who is doing wonders at Valencia apparently, also credited him with the crop of players that had been coming through at Dundee utd, the coaches name is Ian Cathro

Cathro worked with the Utd crop for a spell when they were younger and his background is working with younger age groups.

My understanding is he was very committed to wanting his guys to play the 'right' way at that age, regardless of the result, which may have caused conflict with some parents. The emphasis seemed to be on getting technique, positioning etc right, even if it meant taking a few cuffings to get there. He also has strong ideas about what kind of drills should be used in training. From what I have heard him say I think he's on the money and I can see why he might have felt going abroad would give him a more receptive audience.

He seems to have steadily progressed since he went to the Iberian peninsula and I think he's quite clear that he's working towards having a team in his own right. Sure it won't be long.

[Future17]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Was talking to
A rep who comes into my work, he mentioned a 28 year old scottish coach who is doing wonders at Valencia apparently, also credited him with the crop of players that had been coming through at Dundee utd, the coaches name is Ian Cathro

This article was on BBC about him recently:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/29463560

P.S. - PEDANT ALERT: Sergey, can you change the thread title to either "Whose Are Succeeding?" or "Who's Succeeding?" please?

[Sioux]

I seem to recall the Hertz (or maybe the KB fuds) trumpeting about Cathro being installed into their latest 'we are the biggest, bestest revolution'. If true, it seems to have gone the same way as that one aboot world cup stars.

[JimBHibees]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I agree with your points re Stubbs and young players though and it's great to see. I think that Stubbs probably feels a bit more secure in his position (due to a good relationship with his immediate superior) in order to allow him to work with our young players in a more constructive way than his predecessors did. They always seemed to be in crisis mode and all too often went for short-term fixes which were detrimental to our young players.

Also Stubbs background is very much in developing youth so that is where his expertise is in and quite right too. I would much rather bring in a young player as has been clearly shown the loan market or journeyman are 9 times out of 10 no better than what is already there. Young players bring a better connection with the fans and also should be hungrier to succeed. They also have to be good enough of course.

[JimBHibees]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I seem to recall the Hertz (or maybe the KB fuds) trumpeting about Cathro being installed into their latest 'we are the biggest, bestest revolution'. If true, it seems to have gone the same way as that one aboot world cup stars.

Wouldnt rule it out given his relationship with Levein though you would assume bigger clubs would be aware of what he is doing abroad also.

[Baader]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Wouldnt rule it out given his relationship with Levein though you would assume bigger clubs would be aware of what he is doing abroad also.

Cathro is assistant manager at Valencia. Wouldn't think he'll be giving up much time for goings on in Gorgie...

[JimBHibees]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Cathro is assistant manager at Valencia. Wouldn't think he'll be giving up much time for goings on in Gorgie...

Agree however say an interview with him a few months back where he was very keen to be a manager in his own right and may suit somewhere he already knows people like Levein.

[McKenzie]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I seem to recall the Hertz (or maybe the KB fuds) trumpeting about Cathro being installed into their latest 'we are the biggest, bestest revolution'. If true, it seems to have gone the same way as that one aboot world cup stars.

Cathro plans on being a manager at the start of next season. Sure he'll have higher standards than scottish prem

[JimBHibees]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Cathro plans on being a manager at the start of next season. Sure he'll have higher standards than scottish prem

Or Championship

[Sioux]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Wouldnt rule it out given his relationship with Levein though you would assume bigger clubs would be aware of what he is doing abroad also.

On reflection its probably this relationship that had the mutants licking their lips. 2 + 2 = anything they balloons want it to be.

[JIm]

Fair play to Cathro for what he has achieved at an early age in the game.

For anyone who actually knows the guy though its quite surprising. He has the communication skills of my last ***** and slightly less personality. He seemed to strike up a good bond with the current manager on his A licence and they've been working together ever since.

Finally he was only in the Utd academy for a couple of years so i don't think he deserves all the credit. There's guys up at Utd such at Stevie Campbell who have just as much input into developing these young lads.

From what i see there is a lot of good work going on at many different clubs. My biggest worries are in the non professional side of the game where many coaches are purely focused on winning and behaviour at the side of the pitch is at times nothing short of shocking. THat said there are many others who aren't.

Still we're not going to fix Scottish Football via this thread

[dangermouse]

I don't think there is any surprise in youth being given a chance at the moment. The last time this happened, Williamson/Mowbray, we were in a similar situation, nae money!