Scotland v England

[Gus]

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Dry my eyes? I was born in England and live there and your acting like a complete idiot!

U on the wind up eh?

[JimBHibees]

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Thought the booing of GTSQ was an absolute embarrassment and made us look narrow minded

Agree embarrassing, when was it ever acceptable to boo national anthems. Pathetic.

As for the game we were flat and bottled it to a large degree. Too many standing back and admiring. England are good but not as good as we made them look. Bottom line is if we were to lose one of the 2 games this was the one.

[Golden Bear]

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Agree embarrassing, when was it ever acceptable to boo national anthems. Pathetic.

As for the game we were flat and bottled it to a large degree. Too many standing back and admiring. England are good but not as good as we made them look. Bottom line is if we were to lose one of the 2 games this was the one.

That's been a sorry trait of the Tartan Army over the years (but thankfully less so recently.)

Regardless of your politics, God Save the Queen is still THE National Anthem and with the availability of various other "Anthems" which are exclusively relevant to England, then THE National Anthem shouldn't be their choice.

[AndyM_1875]

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Was the Betty-Windsor-Lied played as the English anthem or did we have to suffer Land of Hope and Glory as well?

For all the fine talk about the Tartan Army, I've been less and less impressed by the support they give the team over tha last few years.

Time was when no matter what was going on on the park all you could hear in this fixture was the Scottish support - either singing ecstatically when we won or baying for the manager's guts when we lost.

Couldnae imagine that lot disassembling the Wembley goals.

Not really a surprise though Doddie at over £50 a ticket for a friendly and £45+ for Friday. I'm an existing SSC member and I'm not alone in being priced out by the SFA.
All a big difference from the days my old boy followed Scotland and went on trips to Wembley in the 70s.

[NAE NOOKIE]

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Agree embarrassing, when was it ever acceptable to boo national anthems. Pathetic.

As for the game we were flat and bottled it to a large degree. Too many standing back and admiring. England are good but not as good as we made them look. Bottom line is if we were to lose one of the 2 games this was the one.

Never JBH. In the past GSTQ got booed because it was the only anthem played and most of us didn't recognise it as being appropriate for Scotland. Now we have our own tune and England stick with GSTQ .... In view of that its utterly disrespectful and an embarrassment to Scotland to boo it.

On that note ...... what a *** dirge FOS is.

[--------]

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Not really a surprise though Doddie at over £50 a ticket for a friendly and £45+ for Friday. I'm an existing SSC member and I'm not alone in being priced out by the SFA.

All a big difference from the days my old boy followed Scotland and went on trips to Wembley in the 70s.

I know. The civilised bit of me kinda approves of the changes - I mean. it's nice to be able to go to a game without some Weegie neanderthal in an OF scarf pissing down your leg - but there are times when I miss the raucous (extremely non-PC) singing and chanting that could have you in hysterics.

And there really is no excuse for a Scottish crowd being out-sung by the Engerlunders in Glasgow.

I know that the SFA had to act to deal with the hooliganism that was following the team in the 1970's - I don't really want to see a re-run of 1977, though I'd still like to know how they got that cross-bar out of the stadium and onto the bus home - but what started off as a means to prevent match-tickets being touted to the casuals has become a cosy wee arrangement whereby only those and such as those can get access to Scotland games.

And going on the evidence of the last few Scotland games I've watched on TV, our local Ladies' Flower-Arrangers would make more noise and a better atmosphere.

And I'd bet the house they know more about football than that shower last night.

[Carheenlea]

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I know. The civilised bit of me kinda approves of the changes - I mean. it's nice to be able to go to a game without some Weegie neanderthal in an OF scarf pissing down your leg - but there are times when I miss the raucous (extremely non-PC) singing and chanting that could have you in hysterics.

And there really is no excuse for a Scottish crowd being out-sung by the Engerlunders in Glasgow.

I know that the SFA had to act to deal with the hooliganism that was following the team in the 1970's - I don't really want to see a re-run of 1977, though I'd still like to know how they got that cross-bar out of the stadium and onto the bus home - but what started off as a means to prevent match-tickets being touted to the casuals has become a cosy wee arrangement whereby only those and such as those can get access to Scotland games.

And going on the evidence of the last few Scotland games I've watched on TV, our local Ladies' Flower-Arrangers would make more noise and a better atmosphere.

And I'd bet the house they know more about football than that shower last night.

[Keith_M]

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I know. The civilised bit of me kinda approves of the changes - I mean. it's nice to be able to go to a game without some Weegie neanderthal in an OF scarf pissing down your leg - but there are times when I miss the raucous (extremely non-PC) singing and chanting that could have you in hysterics.

And there really is no excuse for a Scottish crowd being out-sung by the Engerlunders in Glasgow.

I know that the SFA had to act to deal with the hooliganism that was following the team in the 1970's - I don't really want to see a re-run of 1977, though I'd still like to know how they got that cross-bar out of the stadium and onto the bus home - but what started off as a means to prevent match-tickets being touted to the casuals has become a cosy wee arrangement whereby only those and such as those can get access to Scotland games.

And going on the evidence of the last few Scotland games I've watched on TV, our local Ladies' Flower-Arrangers would make more noise and a better atmosphere.

And I'd bet the house they know more about football than that shower last night.

Made plenty of noise over in Dortmund, so maybe it's a problem at home games (or even just last night's crowd)

Oh and there were no Casuals in 1977, that was just the typical Scotland Fan of the time.

[AndyM_1875]

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Oh and there were no Casuals in 1977, that was just the typical Scotland Fan of the time.

I think Doddie knows that. After problems in the late 70s/early 80s the Scotland fans had to clean up their act and hence the happy, friendly, self policing band of travelling alcoholics was born. A separate issue was the 1989 abandonment of the Auld Enemy fixture.
IIRC the fixture was pretty much unlamented once it was axed due to hooligans/Casuals (on both sides) running amok at recent fixtures. It had become poisonous as a fixture.

I was at the 1999 Play Off at Wembley (working down south at the time) and making my way through London that was the nastiest most hostile atmosphere I've been in without question. The "happy friendly" Tartan Army were anything but (lots of folk on both sides well up for a scrap) and the England fans were doing their best impression of a BNP convention that night.

I won't be overly unhappy to see Scotland and England drop the fixture for a while.

[VivaHiberña]

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That's been a sorry trait of the Tartan Army over the years (but thankfully less so recently.)

Regardless of your politics, God Save the Queen is still THE National Anthem and with the availability of various other relevant "Anthems" which are exclusively relevant to England, then THE National Anthem shouldn't be their choice.

I have to disagree with you, on two counts.

First, originally all the Home Nations used GSTQ and Scotland and Wales have since decided not to. England, like Northern Ireland, are quite entitled in my view to keep using the anthem they've been using since national anthems have been sung at football matches. Also, who are we to tell them what anthem they can and can't sing? It's their song as much as ours.

That said, I do despair at the site of England supporters with union flags. And to a lesser extent when they sing Rule Britannia. I do however feel some sympathy for them in that while we get an anthem I quite like, they're stuck with a dirgey wee tune about the monarchy. Apparently it's the only national anthem in the world which doesn't even mention it's own country in the lyrics.

[Sylar]

The booing of GSTQ is part of the theatre surrounding the fixture these days, nothing more. The furore as a result of it has been totally disproportionate - there was nowhere near as much outcry when the English fans, to a man, booed Flower of Scotland at Wembley last year! National anthems are far from sacred entities anymore and in all honesty, I wish they'd just ditch them before games, particularly friendlies.

What really irked me last night was the sectarian/political affiliations the English fans tried to portray. The anti-IRA chants, the 'No Surrender' banner and the 'No Surrender' add-ons during their in-match renditions of GSTQ. The loyalist attitudes being articulated by the England fans was pretty disgusting given how prevalent these issues are in Glasgow - was it because the game was at Parkhead or was it a large number of Rangers FC RIP fans infiltrating the away end?

[Keith_M]

I think booing the opposing anthem is on the level of panto behavior. I find it a bit cringeworthy but there are a lot worse things to complain about.

Last night's match brought home how badly the fixture has been scheduled. In fairness, England were the deserved winners. However, the Scotland team looked a shadow of the side we've seen in the Euro qualifiers so far and I wonder if this was just one match too many.

If they do decide to repeat this match, it has to be done near or at the end of the season and not as part of a double header. One possibility would be to hold it on a bi-annual basis, only in the years where there's no Euros or World Cup.

[--------]

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Made plenty of noise over in Dortmund, so maybe it's a problem at home games (or even just last night's crowd)

Oh and there were no Casuals in 1977, that was just the typical Scotland Fan of the time.

No, there were plenty. They were called "Scotland supporters". Or "England supporters".

This fixture should be left as it was - discontinued. Fair enough if the two teams get drawn against one another in the normal course of events, but reviving it seems to me to be just asking for trouble.

BTW - are we sure that it was the England supporters chanting nasty chants about the IRA?

Couldnae have been some Weegie Scotland supporters of the Hunnish variety chanting along, naw?

[Keith_M]

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No, there were plenty. They were called "Scotland supporters". Or "England supporters".

This fixture should be left as it was - discontinued. Fair enough if the two teams get drawn against one another in the normal course of events, but reviving it seems to me to be just asking for trouble.

BTW - are we sure that it was the England supporters chanting nasty chants about the IRA?

Couldnae have been some Weegie Scotland supporters of the Hunnish variety chanting along, naw?

Sorry Doddie, I wasn't intending to start a spat. The word 'Casual' hadn't yet come into vogue in 1977, which is what I was referring to, they were just 'Hooligans' in them days.

However, somebody else pointed out that it may have been the events of the late 80s/90s you were referring to, so fair enough.

[AndyM_1875]

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Couldnae have been some Weegie Scotland supporters of the Hunnish variety chanting along, naw?

Very very unlikely there would have been any Hunnish types in the England end Doddie.
To get a ticket you would need to be a member of the England Supporters Travel Club and I can't see yer common garden bluenosed soapdodger paying £75 just for a one off.
https://englandsupporters.thefa.com/...rs-travel-club

Although this might raise a giggle..



Section 2 - Code of Conduct - ‘England Respects’

These Rules incorporate the ‘England Respects’ code of conduct and as a Member, you agree to adhere to this code:
• Members should act as ambassadors for the England team, and act in such a way that will enhance the image of English supporters and the national side.
• Members must abide by the highest standards of behaviour, and reject: (i) any action involving violence, intimidation, provocation or abuse; (ii) use of language that is offensive, racist, homophobic or discriminatory in any other way; or (iii) behaviour contrary to standards of decency and respect towards the people, cultures, laws and property of host countries.
• English football is valued around the world for its standards of passion and fair play. Members will enhance this reputation by showing respect for the game, t

Read more at https://englandsupporters.thefa.com/...DYK14hd8wYe.99

[ancient hibee]

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Very very unlikely there would have been any Hunnish types in the England end Doddie.
To get a ticket you would need to be a member of the England Supporters Travel Club and I can't see yer common garden bluenosed soapdodger paying £75 just for a one off.
https://englandsupporters.thefa.com/...rs-travel-club

Although this might raise a giggle..



Section 2 - Code of Conduct - ‘England Respects’

These Rules incorporate the ‘England Respects’ code of conduct and as a Member, you agree to adhere to this code:
• Members should act as ambassadors for the England team, and act in such a way that will enhance the image of English supporters and the national side.
• Members must abide by the highest standards of behaviour, and reject: (i) any action involving violence, intimidation, provocation or abuse; (ii) use of language that is offensive, racist, homophobic or discriminatory in any other way; or (iii) behaviour contrary to standards of decency and respect towards the people, cultures, laws and property of host countries.
• English football is valued around the world for its standards of passion and fair play. Members will enhance this reputation by showing respect for the game, t

Read more at https://englandsupporters.thefa.com/...DYK14hd8wYe.99

Does this apply to their players as well?

[--------]

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Sorry Doddie, I wasn't intending to start a spat. The word 'Casual' hadn't yet come into vogue in 1977, which is what I was referring to, they were just 'Hooligans' in them days.

However, somebody else pointed out that it may have been the events of the late 80s/90s you were referring to, so fair enough.

Sorry - I shouldn't have used the word 'casuals' - 'hooligans' is a much more accurate word. Or maybe just 'thugs'?

To be fair to those involved, I've never thought that THAT Wembley pitch invasion was seriously hostile - exuberance run riot more like, IMO.

IIRC the FA had allowed the Horse of the Year Show to take place on the pitch the previous year, and the pitch hadn't recovered. The subject of the pitch came up after Czechoslovakia complained about it after a World Cup match, and some Johnny from the FA said that everything was fine - there were only the Cup Final and the Scotland game to take place before the end of the season, and the pitch was going to be lifted and relaid in the close season. AND that if the pitch was good enough for horses, it was good enough for Scotland!

A good friend of mine was at the game, and he told me that as the final minutes were running down with Scotland winning 2-1 the word went round that 'we' should save the FA the trouble and expense of hiring someone to lift the turf - 'we' could do it for them for free.

Everyone thought this was a grand idea - drink had been taken, I believe - and the rest is history.

But I WOULD like to know how they got that crossbar out of the stadium and onto the bus. And where exactly it is now.