Fan Buy Out Launched/BuyHibs/Q&A Answers

[Andy74]

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And its also a point many folk have pointed out over the years, Petrie is untouchable and the only way to get rid of him was to target the owner.

I'd like Petrie gone but I'm not going to pay another 80% on top of my season ticket money to allow a group to buy Hibs just to get rid of a non exec Chairman. Certainly not this group judging by their plans and approach so far.

[blackpoolhibs]

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I'd like Petrie gone but I'm not going to pay another 80% on top of my season ticket money to allow a group to buy Hibs just to get rid of a non exec Chairman. Certainly not this group judging by their plans and approach so far.

You don't need to, its not compulsory.

[emerald green]

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I'd like Petrie gone but I'm not going to pay another 80% on top of my season ticket money to allow a group to buy Hibs just to get rid of a non exec Chairman. Certainly not this group judging by their plans and approach so far.

Andy, I've not read through all 36 pages of this thread. I've only read some of it, off and on, but can I ask you how you see the ongoing future of Hibs if this fan buy out doesn't succeed (and that's how it's looking to me at the moment, but what do I know?).

I've genuinely got an open mind as to whether or not a fan buy out is the best way to safeguard and ensure the future wellbeing and security of our club, including the fantastic stadium and training centre. I do however have doubts about the proposal from BuyHibs.

If it's not the best way, what then for Hibs? Particularly when the day comes when Sir Tom Farmer is no longer with us?

[The Falcon]

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It doesn't really matter what I would have done or not.

The perception exists that several of RP's appointments were made on the back of opinion on Hibs message boards. If he did make decisions on the back of that then it's merely indicative of his lack of skills. On the other trying to make excuses for his decisions by saying "it's what the fans wanted" is a weak argument on his behalf, as it highlights his lack of leadership all the same.

For what it's worth I never wanted Williamson, Mixu, Collins or Butcher. Fenlon, Mowbray and Calderwood arrived without any hype on here so don't really count towards that argument.

Is that everybody bar Yogi?

[Andy74]

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Andy, I've not read through all 36 pages of this thread. I've only read some of it, off and on, but can I ask you how you see the ongoing future of Hibs if this fan buy out doesn't succeed (and that's how it's looking to me at the moment, but what do I know?).

I've genuinely got an open mind as to whether or not a fan buy out is the best way to safeguard and ensure the future wellbeing and security of our club, including the fantastic stadium and training centre. I do however have doubts about the proposal from BuyHibs.

If it's not the best way, what then for Hibs? Particularly when the day comes when Sir Tom Farmer is no longer with us?

Sir Tom could be here for the next 25 years.

I trust his intentions for Hibs so I'm pretty relaxed about our ownership now and in the future. Like all his assets there will be a plan if he was to go. I doubt he'd allow that to be detrimental to us.

That's the long and the short of it for me. I've no interest in agitating for a change on the basis that something bad might happen when Sir Tom goes. I don't believe for a second that would be allowed to happen.

[emerald green]

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Sir Tom could be here for the next 25 years.

I trust his intentions for Hibs so I'm pretty relaxed about our ownership now and in the future. Like all his assets there will be a plan if he was to go. I doubt he'd allow that to be detrimental to us.

That's the long and the short of it for me. I've no interest in agitating for a change on the basis that something bad might happen when Sir Tom goes. I don't believe for a second that would be allowed to happen.

OK, thanks for that.

[Keith_M]

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Sir Tom could be here for the next 25 years.

That would make him 99. Bit iffy to put your trust in someone living decades beyond the national average, surely?

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I trust his intentions for Hibs so I'm pretty relaxed about our ownership now and in the future. Like all his assets there will be a plan if he was to go. I doubt he'd allow that to be detrimental to us.

So where's the harm in telling the Hibs support what it is? If he took over the Club for the sake of the Community, surely he can keep that community informed of his intentions.

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That's the long and the short of it for me. I've no interest in agitating for a change on the basis that something bad might happen when Sir Tom goes. I don't believe for a second that would be allowed to happen.

I'm sorry, but that's called 'blind faith'. Not all of us have it.

[Ozyhibby]

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Sir Tom could be here for the next 25 years.

I trust his intentions for Hibs so I'm pretty relaxed about our ownership now and in the future. Like all his assets there will be a plan if he was to go. I doubt he'd allow that to be detrimental to us.

That's the long and the short of it for me. I've no interest in agitating for a change on the basis that something bad might happen when Sir Tom goes. I don't believe for a second that would be allowed to happen.

Something bad already has happened. We're the laughing stock of Scottish football.

[Andy74]

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That would make him 99. Bit iffy to put your trust in someone living decades beyond the national average, surely?



So where's the harm in telling the Hibs support what it is? If he took over the Club for the sake of the Community, surely he can keep that community informed of his intentions.



I'm sorry, but that's called 'blind faith'. Not all of us have it.

Why are you calling it blind faith? Its based on my knowledge of Sir Tom and his trustworthiness.

[blackpoolhibs]

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Something bad already has happened. We're the laughing stock of Scottish football.

I actually think some folk have completely forgotten about this, and its the 2nd time its happened under his ownership. God forbid anything really bad happens eh?

[Kato]

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Is that everybody bar Yogi?

Most certainly didn't want him either.

[Kato]

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Like all his assets there will be a plan if he was to go.

What if there isn't?

[Andy74]

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What if there isn't?

I don't care any more. You worry about for me.

[Kato]

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I don't care any more. You worry about for me.

Cop. Out.

[Mibbes Aye]

You posted this, which might be a fair point

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Jumping in with little snipes and jokes doesn't add anything to this discussion but I'm not expecting those who are doing so to stop as it seems that is all they have to add.

Unfortunately you posted it after you had posted this

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OK. You win. Great point you have their (look there's a typo you can get all pedantic about.)

I take it all back, Ton Farmer and Rod Petrie have never made any mistakes in their lives and we never, ever have to worry about what will happen to Hibs in the future as both of them will live forever and ever (like in a fairy tale) and will carry on taking to Hibs to further glory as they have done during the whole tenure.

If you're going to criticise others for being snipey or sarcy it doesn't really hold up if you're going and doing the same, does it? Just makes you look a bit foolish, IMO.

[Eyrie]

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What if there isn't?

He's a multi-millionaire with a family and diverse interests. People like that pay serious money to lawyers and accountants to make sure that their estate is passed on both in accordance with their wishes and with the smallest possible tax bill.

[Jack]

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Andy, I've not read through all 36 pages of this thread. I've only read some of it, off and on, but can I ask you how you see the ongoing future of Hibs if this fan buy out doesn't succeed (and that's how it's looking to me at the moment, but what do I know?).

I've genuinely got an open mind as to whether or not a fan buy out is the best way to safeguard and ensure the future wellbeing and security of our club, including the fantastic stadium and training centre. I do however have doubts about the proposal from BuyHibs.

If it's not the best way, what then for Hibs? Particularly when the day comes when Sir Tom Farmer is no longer with us?

I think we should all chill and wait for the club propsal.

I believe, no, I'm certain all these pre-emptive strikes, however good they believe their intentions are, will fail if only for the reason the club have said they'd listen and react to what we've said.

How would the support react if the club, following their survey and consultations, said to BuyHibs, OK there you go it's all yours?

We all know what our club is like, its just not going to happen.

I also think folk should ditch the age stuff around STF being on his last legs. Sir Tom is [1/1] 73, Sir Pat is 7-0. At that time of life I suspect you couldn't split the difference: 70 is the new 21 ;-)

[Mikey]

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Following on from the conversation on the PM board, here's another question for Buy Hibs.........

Does Buy Hibs still exist in the format released last week or has the militant arm split off to do their own thing?

Or does it still exist at all

[emerald green]

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I think we should all chill and wait for the club propsal.

I believe, no, I'm certain all these pre-emptive strikes, however good they believe their intentions are, will fail if only for the reason the club have said they'd listen and react to what we've said.

How would the support react if the club, following their survey and consultations, said to BuyHibs, OK there you go it's all yours?

We all know what our club is like, its just not going to happen.

I also think folk should ditch the age stuff around STF being on his last legs. Sir Tom is [1/1] 73, Sir Pat is 7-0. At that time of life I suspect you couldn't split the difference: 70 is the new 21 ;-)

I completely agree with the bit in bold. I can assure you I wasn't meaning anything disrespectful to STF at all in that regard. That wasn't the point I was trying to make.

All I am trying to do is cut through some of the fog surrounding this proposal, and trying to formulate some sort of an understanding of where this all might be leading. What the pros and cons might be.

Like all Hibs supporters, I want what's in the best interests and future security and well being of our club. I just don't know what format that is right now and need clarity.

[RIP]

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I think we should all chill and wait for the club propsal.

I believe, no, I'm certain all these pre-emptive strikes, however good they believe their intentions are, will fail if only for the reason the club have said they'd listen and react to what we've said.

How would the support react if the club, following their survey and consultations, said to BuyHibs, OK there you go it's all yours?

We all know what our club is like, its just not going to happen.

I also think folk should ditch the age stuff around STF being on his last legs. Sir Tom is [1/1] 73, Sir Pat is 7-0. At that time of life I suspect you couldn't split the difference: 70 is the new 21 ;-)

Good points Jack. As always.

However 'the club' by which I assume you mean the board are the same board that have repeatedly failed the club over the past seven years.

Blind faith in a business-led proposition from a failed board is no more credible than a naive supporter-led proposition.

[Kato]

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You posted this, which might be a fair point



Unfortunately you posted it after you had posted this



If you're going to criticise others for being snipey or sarcy it doesn't really hold up if you're going and doing the same, does it? Just makes you look a bit foolish, IMO.

Does it? Tell you what. I don't care for your opinion on whatever it is I feel like saying, so I guess I can live with that. No offence to you personally. It's only a message board and contrariness abounds. I've noticed there's attempts to make anyone who suggests anything outwith a conservative outlook look foolish so I'm in good company.

What I think is foolish is attempting to tar buyhibs' name when the idea is very embryonic. That's what I've said all along on here. I'm not telling everyone that what they have to say is perfect but I'm also not looking to blow holes through what they are doing as it may develop into exactly what Hibs need, imho. Develop being the key word there.

Whether that is owning part of the club or controlling all of it that would also develop and become clearer over time. I would hope for the latter and that some deal could be struck with backers with a fans group as backup. Instead on here after a few short days there were posters firmly pushing a line that "this can't work". I don't understand that closed mindedness to be honest. If Pat Stanton is involved you have to at least respect they are in earnest and any discussions should at least be positive with positive suggestions.

Another foolish stance to me is to make out nothing needs done in regards the way Hibs are owned at the moment, when were at the back end of the worst few seasons the club has suffered ever in it's history (that's ever). Especially when there has been zero accountability shown by said owners. I'm told people have faith in STF's succession planning, I don't. It could well be he plans to leave the lot to RP as he's kept him in place despite the huge mistakes made in the past. I don't have that faith so am open-minded to alternatives and won't joining in with the complacency.

[The Green Goblin]

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What I think is foolish is attempting to tar buyhibs' name when the idea is very embryonic. That's what I've said all along on here. I'm not telling everyone that what they have to say is perfect but I'm also not looking to blow holes through what they are doing as it may develop into exactly what Hibs need, imho. Develop being the key word there.

I think that`s many people`s problem with the whole thing, Kato. The proposal shouldn`t have been launched if there were still many "i"s to dot and "t"s to cross. Why didn`t they take their time and get the whole thing watertight before launching it? If the plan appears flawed or unfinished, people are going to have a hard time backing it.

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Whether that is owning part of the club or controlling all of it that would also develop and become clearer over time. I would hope for the latter and that some deal could be struck with backers with a fans group as backup. Instead on here after a few short days there were posters firmly pushing a line that "this can't work". I don't understand that closed mindedness to be honest. If Pat Stanton is involved you have to at least respect they are in earnest and any discussions should at least be positive with positive suggestions.

Isn`t that a bit ironic, considering BuyHibs have refused the board`s invitation to meet to discuss a way forward?

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Another foolish stance to me is to make out nothing needs done in regards the way Hibs are owned at the moment, when were at the back end of the worst few seasons the club has suffered ever in it's history (that's ever). Especially when there has been zero accountability shown by said owners. I'm told people have faith in STF's succession planning, I don't. It could well be he plans to leave the lot to RP as he's kept him in place despite the huge mistakes made in the past. I don't have that faith so am open-minded to alternatives and won't joining in with the complacency.

Personally, I will feel a lot better when whatever he has planned is out in the open, so that everyone at least knows where they stand.

[Beefster]

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Good points Jack. As always.

However 'the club' by which I assume you mean the board are the same board that have repeatedly failed the club over the past seven years.

Blind faith in a business-led proposition from a failed board is no more credible than a naive supporter-led proposition.

Why are BuyHibs being described as 'naive' now? A group that includes lawyers, Sales Directors, leading lights from the World Economic Forum and Comms experts shouldn't have their mistakes described away as naivety. If I tried saying "Oops, sorry, I was naive" at my work when i ****ed up, I'd get laughed out of the building. If they are naive, they're not the right people to lead it.

[FranckSuzy]

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Good points Jack. As always.

However 'the club' by which I assume you mean the board are the same board that have repeatedly failed the club over the past seven years.

Blind faith in a business-led proposition from a failed board is no more credible than a naive supporter-led proposition.

Not that long ago, you told us that they were good Hibby's (Hibbies?) and that they only had the club's best interests at heart Do I detect 'trouble at mill' in the Hibs/Gogs relationship?

[rcarter1]

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I think that`s many people`s problem with the whole thing, Kato. The proposal shouldn`t have been launched if there were still many "i"s to dot and "t"s to cross. Why didn`t they take their time and get the whole thing watertight before launching it? If the plan appears flawed or unfinished, people are going to have a hard time backing it.

Isn`t that a bit ironic, considering BuyHibs have refused the board`s invitation to meet to discuss a way forward?

Ive been of the mind that BuyHibs needs time to develop its ideas with those who would support them, and that at the start of a fan ownership process was something to be welcomed. The bit in bold is however concerning me. I pledged straight away as I believed that a movement like this needed a boost to get moving. I will need to reconsider this if they don't seem able to work with the club and other groups.

[Jack]

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Good points Jack. As always.

However 'the club' by which I assume you mean the board are the same board that have repeatedly failed the club over the past seven years.

Blind faith in a business-led proposition from a failed board is no more credible than a naive supporter-led proposition.

I think the club have almost continuously been failing since the early 1960s!

Our demise over the last 7 is just the culmination of Rod Petrie's 17 years in charge. It's poor leadership I'd say rather than a poor, ever changing, board.

You've said often enough since LD came in to give her a chance. You've said often enough that she had been brought in to steer the club to a new model of ownership. I would have thought you of all people would be interested to see what that was.

I'm not saying it will be the ideal, I haven't seen the 'vision', so I don't know.

We do know it's coming soon and having waited all this time another couple of weeks or so isn't going to damage us any more than we are, as a club, rather than the 1st team which already seems to have turned the corner.

I'm not dissing BuyHibs, or Forever Hibernian before them, just waiting to see what the club comes out with before making a decision on which I'd prefer.

[Baldy Foghorn]

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I think the club have almost continuously been failing since the early 1960s!

Our demise over the last 7 is just the culmination of Rod Petrie's 17 years in charge. It's poor leadership I'd say rather than a poor, ever changing, board.

You've said often enough since LD came in to give her a chance. You've said often enough that she had been brought in to steer the club to a new model of ownership. I would have thought you of all people would be interested to see what that was.

I'm not saying it will be the ideal, I haven't seen the 'vision', so I don't know.

We do know it's coming soon and having waited all this time another couple of weeks or so isn't going to damage us any more than we are, as a club, rather than the 1st team which already seems to have turned the corner.

I'm not dissing BuyHibs, or Forever Hibernian before them, just waiting to see what the club comes out with before making a decision on which I'd prefer.

Fair balanced post......

[Eric]

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Good points Jack. As always.

However 'the club' by which I assume you mean the board are the same board that have repeatedly failed the club over the past seven years.
Blind faith in a business-led proposition from a failed board is no more credible than a naive supporter-led proposition.

Out of the present 9 Hibs board members less than half were on the board on this date in 2007. Hardly the "same board"

And I do agree with Jack that we should wait to hear the board's plans for the future!

[ancient hibee]

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Does it? Tell you what. I don't care for your opinion on whatever it is I feel like saying, so I guess I can live with that. No offence to you personally. It's only a message board and contrariness abounds. I've noticed there's attempts to make anyone who suggests anything outwith a conservative outlook look foolish so I'm in good company.

What I think is foolish is attempting to tar buyhibs' name when the idea is very embryonic. That's what I've said all along on here. I'm not telling everyone that what they have to say is perfect but I'm also not looking to blow holes through what they are doing as it may develop into exactly what Hibs need, imho. Develop being the key word there.

Whether that is owning part of the club or controlling all of it that would also develop and become clearer over time. I would hope for the latter and that some deal could be struck with backers with a fans group as backup. Instead on here after a few short days there were posters firmly pushing a line that "this can't work". I don't understand that closed mindedness to be honest. If Pat Stanton is involved you have to at least respect they are in earnest and any discussions should at least be positive with positive suggestions.

Another foolish stance to me is to make out nothing needs done in regards the way Hibs are owned at the moment, when were at the back end of the worst few seasons the club has suffered ever in it's history (that's ever). Especially when there has been zero accountability shown by said owners. I'm told people have faith in STF's succession planning, I don't. It could well be he plans to leave the lot to RP as he's kept him in place despite the huge mistakes made in the past. I don't have that faith so am open-minded to alternatives and won't joining in with the complacency.

Should people with only embryonic ideas really be asking others to pledge money?

[Kato]

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Should people with only embryonic ideas really be asking others to pledge money?

Why not? Take pledges before any cash is taken/provided. Those that have pledged can then discuss with those organising the thing to take the embryonic ideas and grow or change them. Pledges can be revoked at any time. I don't think what they are putting forward is set in stone. The flanges' over the road didn't have all their plans in place with FoH and those who set it up aren't in charge now it's in place. Things change over time. It potentially helps Hibs whatever scale it achieves so I think it's worth listening to.