HFC remembers

[Beefster]

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I am sorry but you are wrong ! I have served in the Army and during my time I have also served as a fireman when they sacked It, they were on more money than me and only worked a 4 day week and could get another job, I have also stood in as a ambulance driver for them, a prison guard, and a fuel driver for the strikes, this was all to keep you in the life that you have become accustomed.

Soldiers do what you ask them to do, what their country asks them, we don't choose to leave our families for years, to do the jobs that we are asked we just get on with it.

The poppy and the act of remembrance Is not about todays Army but paying respect for the thousands that gave their lives for you! for your freedom, for your right to debate and speak freely. This is not about today but for the past. if is the charities you are concerned about, then am ashamed for you.

God bless the Hibs!

I think you've either misquoted or misunderstood M59's post.

[TowerHibs]

Just find it amazing that no matter what the thread or no what what the subject....if there is a difference of opinion then all of a sudden the replies of "disgusting", "embarrassing" come out

[Leith Mo]

Personally I choose not to wear a poppy for my own reasons. Others choose to wear one for their own reasons - fair enough to them, it's not my place to criticise those individuals on here.

I do wonder though if all, or any, of our players have been given a choice as to whether they do personally wish to wear a poppy in this match and what the reaction would be to any who chose not to wear a poppy in this match or any other, perhaps for reasons which they as individuals would rather did not have to be aired in public? After all, remembrance began by being, and I believe should remain, a very personal thing and individuals can all remember different things in different ways. Rightly or wrongly depending upon your own individual viewpoint this can include the past and present actions (including "sacrifice") of British (& Empire & Commonwealth) service personnnel?

[ancient hibee]

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I think the point that this thread is NOT about nurses and fireman is precisely the point.

As a general rule, when it comes to charitable giving I tend to favour the victims of events over which they have no control - health related for example. Modern soldiers choose to be soldiers.

I do also worry about the US style jingoism that is increasingly being trumpeted around our armed forces, and I don't want the Uk to go down that militaristic road.

However I appreciate that for many (too many?) remembrance and jingoism about the armed forces have become inseparable. The Daily Mail is the fastest growing newspaper in Scotland apparently.

Add in the sense of one-upmanship that Hearts have created in this space, where it seems we are all competing to see who remembers most and best, and I dislike it and don't think we should be doing it. A minute's silence for the fallen used to suffice. Dignified and personal. Now we all have to PR it up to prove we 'support our boys'.

I also have a general belief that Hibs, as a broad church whose fans represent all political beliefs, religions etc, should really just focus on doing what we all Hibs fans do pay their hard-earned towards, and that's being a football team, pure and simple. Leave the charity, community work etc to individual fans to make their own choices that best reflect their own personal beliefs.

Could you give some examples of the UKs jingoistic approach to the armed services?

[Elephant Stone]

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Could you give some examples of the UKs jingoistic approach to the armed services?

Do you mean the UK government or UK society? Either way I find it hard to believe you can't see any.

[TheReg!]

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We should also stop giving them special status in my opinion. These days it's a job they choose to do and for the most part is no more dangerous than many other professions.

Really??? Having spent he best part of 20 years in the Parachute Regiment, i have personally seen 3 friends killed in the space of a 6 month tour in Afghanistan not to mention half a dozen amputee's, and that is just from one tour never mind the other 9 that i have done. I have also suffered to hearing loss, which has made me disabled for life as i have to wear two hearing aids at the age of 36. Name one other profession that has this scale of injuries and death in a 6 month period???

Soldiers don't pick and choose to go to War/Illegal Wars/Conflicts or what ever you want to call it, we go because its what the elected government of the time deem necessary.

As it happens, most soldiers don't want special status within society, i find it embarrassing tbh, we don't want freedom of city's, marching bands, and Millie awards (WTF), i don't want and expect anything from anybody, i can get that from my friends who have shared good and bad times with in the Army. BUT if people want to get together once a year to REMEMBER the sacrifice of fallen soldiers, be that The Great War, WW2, Korea, Falklands, NI, and the other half dozen conflicts in between then thats a good thing because that is all it is nothing more nothing less.

Andy, it is a job we choose to do!

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

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Could you give some examples of the UKs jingoistic approach to the armed services?

Not really, its more the sense I get of a general discourse and feeling, that is well demonstrated by some of the replies to the dissenters on this thread.

[Jonnyboy]

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Really??? Having spent he best part of 20 years in the Parachute Regiment, i have personally seen 3 friends killed in the space of a 6 month tour in Afghanistan not to mention half a dozen amputee's, and that is just from one tour never mind the other 9 that i have done. I have also suffered to hearing loss, which has made me disabled for life as i have to wear two hearing aids at the age of 36. Name one other profession that has this scale of injuries and death in a 6 month period???

Soldiers don't pick and choose to go to War/Illegal Wars/Conflicts or what ever you want to call it, we go because its what the elected government of the time deem necessary.

As it happens, most soldiers don't want special status within society, i find it embarrassing tbh, we don't want freedom of city's, marching bands, and Millie awards (WTF), i don't want and expect anything from anybody, i can get that from my friends who have shared good and bad times with in the Army. BUT if people want to get together once a year to REMEMBER the sacrifice of fallen soldiers, be that The Great War, WW2, Korea, Falklands, NI, and the other half dozen conflicts in between then thats a good thing because that is all it is nothing more nothing less.

Andy, it is a job we choose to do, however, I have probably more honour, pride, integrity and self sacrifice in my little finger than you have in your whole body!!

This.

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

[QUOTE=TheReg!;4216804]Really??? Having spent he best part of 20 years in the Parachute Regiment, i have personally seen 3 friends killed in the space of a 6 month tour in Afghanistan not to mention half a dozen amputee's, and that is just from one tour never mind the other 9 that i have done. I have also suffered to hearing loss, which has made me disabled for life as i have to wear two hearing aids at the age of 36. Name one other profession that has this scale of injuries and death in a 6 month period???

Soldiers don't pick and choose to go to War/Illegal Wars/Conflicts or what ever you want to call it, we go because its what the elected government of the time deem necessary.

As it happens, most soldiers don't want special status within society, i find it embarrassing tbh, we don't want freedom of city's, marching bands, and Millie awards (WTF), i don't want and expect anything from anybody, i can get that from my friends who have shared good and bad times with in the Army. BUT if people want to get together once a year to REMEMBER the sacrifice of fallen soldiers, be that The Great War, WW2, Korea, Falklands, NI, and the other half dozen conflicts in between then thats a good thing because that is all it is nothing more nothing less.

Andy, it is a job we choose to do, however, I have probably more honour, pride, integrity and self sacrifice in my little finger than you have in your whole body!![/QUOTE]

Jeezo, that's quite statement to make.

On your first point, I imagine fishermen, miners, oil workers (helicopter crashes in the North Sea), many industrial workers (asbestos etc), and when it comes to your deafness, DJs?

[southern hibby]

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We should also stop giving them special status in my opinion. These days it's a job they choose to do and for the most part is no more dangerous than many other professions.

I did as I have already stated 22 years Royal Navy. I'n that time I've done Bosnia and three tours of Iraq. As for it being a job I chose to do you are correct, but if I and the other 170,000 serving and numerous Veterans had not joined then think along these lines we would have National Service and then we would all have served.

I'n this time my last tour of Iraq was 7 months on an oil platform. I never joined up to serve on foreign soil, like soldiers and Marines do I joined to keep Britains trade routes on the high seas free from foreign adversaries. As for it being no more dangerous than other jobs I must disagree.

Also I have seen guys and girls coming back from a 7 or 9 month tour of duty to be told they're sailing again immediately for another tour of duty. As you said we volunteer for said jobs however we are human too and more so is our families and loved ones.

GGTTH

[marinello59]

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I am sorry but you are wrong ! I have served in the Army and during my time I have also served as a fireman when they sacked It, they were on more money than me and only worked a 4 day week and could get another job, I have also stood in as a ambulance driver for them, a prison guard, and a fuel driver for the strikes, this was all to keep you in the life that you have become accustomed.

Soldiers do what you ask them to do, what their country asks them, we don't choose to leave our families for years, to do the jobs that we are asked we just get on with it.

The poppy and the act of remembrance Is not about todays Army but paying respect for the thousands that gave their lives for you! for your freedom, for your right to debate and speak freely. This is not about today but for the past. if is the charities you are concerned about, then am ashamed for you.

God bless the Hibs!

I generally am.
But you seem to have totally misread what I posted.

[Brizo]

[QUOTE=SouthsideHarp_Bhoy;4216824]

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Really??? Having spent he best part of 20 years in the Parachute Regiment, i have personally seen 3 friends killed in the space of a 6 month tour in Afghanistan not to mention half a dozen amputee's, and that is just from one tour never mind the other 9 that i have done. I have also suffered to hearing loss, which has made me disabled for life as i have to wear two hearing aids at the age of 36. Name one other profession that has this scale of injuries and death in a 6 month period???

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Soldiers don't pick and choose to go to War/Illegal Wars/Conflicts or what ever you want to call it, we go because its what the elected government of the time deem necessary.

As it happens, most soldiers don't want special status within society, i find it embarrassing tbh, we don't want freedom of city's, marching bands, and Millie awards (WTF), i don't want and expect anything from anybody, i can get that from my friends who have shared good and bad times with in the Army. BUT if people want to get together once a year to REMEMBER the sacrifice of fallen soldiers, be that The Great War, WW2, Korea, Falklands, NI, and the other half dozen conflicts in between then thats a good thing because that is all it is nothing more nothing less.

Andy, it is a job we choose to do, however, I have probably more honour, pride, integrity and self sacrifice in my little finger than you have in your whole body!![/QUOTE]

Jeezo, that's quite statement to make.

On your first point, I imagine fishermen, miners, oil workers (helicopter crashes in the North Sea), many industrial workers (asbestos etc), and when it comes to your deafness, DJs?

Im a Southside boy myself with a liking for the harp but dearie me , are you for real. To liken hearing loss sustained in a war zone to hearing loss sustained by DJs ! FFS have a word. And do you really think the professions you have named above sustain the same levels of fatalities and injuries as the Armed Forces.

I despair at some of the p@sh on this thread and yours is up there with the worst.

[Andy74]

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Really??? Having spent he best part of 20 years in the Parachute Regiment, i have personally seen 3 friends killed in the space of a 6 month tour in Afghanistan not to mention half a dozen amputee's, and that is just from one tour never mind the other 9 that i have done. I have also suffered to hearing loss, which has made me disabled for life as i have to wear two hearing aids at the age of 36. Name one other profession that has this scale of injuries and death in a 6 month period???

Soldiers don't pick and choose to go to War/Illegal Wars/Conflicts or what ever you want to call it, we go because its what the elected government of the time deem necessary.

As it happens, most soldiers don't want special status within society, i find it embarrassing tbh, we don't want freedom of city's, marching bands, and Millie awards (WTF), i don't want and expect anything from anybody, i can get that from my friends who have shared good and bad times with in the Army. BUT if people want to get together once a year to REMEMBER the sacrifice of fallen soldiers, be that The Great War, WW2, Korea, Falklands, NI, and the other half dozen conflicts in between then thats a good thing because that is all it is nothing more nothing less.

Andy, it is a job we choose to do, however, I have probably more honour, pride, integrity and self sacrifice in my little finger than you have in your whole body!!

Your last paragraph is a disgrace by the way.

[FranckSuzy]

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I did as I have already stated 22 years Royal Navy. I'n that time I've done Bosnia and three tours of Iraq. As for it being a job I chose to do you are correct, but if I and the other 170,000 serving and numerous Veterans had not joined then think along these lines we would have National Service and then we would all have served.

I'n this time my last tour of Iraq was 7 months on an oil platform. I never joined up to serve on foreign soil, like soldiers and Marines do I joined to keep Britains trade routes on the high seas free from foreign adversaries. As for it being no more dangerous than other jobs I must disagree.

Also I have seen guys and girls coming back from a 7 or 9 month tour of duty to be told they're sailing again immediately for another tour of duty. As you said we volunteer for said jobs however we are human too and more so is our families and loved ones.

GGTTH

A very good point, SH.

I despair of some people, I really do. Last year there was a thread complaining that Hibs did not observe a minutes silence at the nearest game to 11/11 then we have this thread...

FWIW, to me, economic conscription is also at play for some of those who signed up and that really is the fault of the government, that the forces seem like a good bet compared to the opportunities (or lack of) available elsewhere.

[Soldiersteve]

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Sorry, i just see they Army faces as Rangers fans.

WTF!

Unlike you, most soldiers I know have class

[Ricky Bobby]

I annually buy a poppy. I wear it to show respect for all those who killed in conflict, soldiers and civilians. I believe there are white poppies which are more of a symbol of peace and the questioning of the need for war. Whatever we wear or don't wear, we should remember that that a few people in positions of power commit to war and the burden falls on people who would prefer to find a peaceful solution.

[Chuck Rhoades]

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Really??? Having spent he best part of 20 years in the Parachute Regiment, i have personally seen 3 friends killed in the space of a 6 month tour in Afghanistan not to mention half a dozen amputee's, and that is just from one tour never mind the other 9 that i have done. I have also suffered to hearing loss, which has made me disabled for life as i have to wear two hearing aids at the age of 36. Name one other profession that has this scale of injuries and death in a 6 month period???

Soldiers don't pick and choose to go to War/Illegal Wars/Conflicts or what ever you want to call it, we go because its what the elected government of the time deem necessary.

As it happens, most soldiers don't want special status within society, i find it embarrassing tbh, we don't want freedom of city's, marching bands, and Millie awards (WTF), i don't want and expect anything from anybody, i can get that from my friends who have shared good and bad times with in the Army. BUT if people want to get together once a year to REMEMBER the sacrifice of fallen soldiers, be that The Great War, WW2, Korea, Falklands, NI, and the other half dozen conflicts in between then thats a good thing because that is all it is nothing more nothing less.

Andy, it is a job we choose to do, however, I have probably more honour, pride, integrity and self sacrifice in my little finger than you have in your whole body!!

Start of the last sentence answers your own point - you chose to sign up to the Army, no one else signed you up.

I have little to no pride in some of the most recent wars given legality of them.

[CropleyWasGod]

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Start of the last sentence answers your own point - you chose to sign up to the Army, no one else signed you up.

I have little to no pride in some of the most recent wars given legality of them.

Think you're confusing pride in the wars with respect for those who are forced, through decisions made by people who will never be on the front line, to fight in them.

[Scouse Hibee]

With regard to recent conflicts, for me it's quite simple I am remembering those who were lost in those conflicts not the reasons or legality of the actual conflicts.

[Glorious St Pat]

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Protest at the governments that decide the course of action then and don't aim your unease at the guys who are just serving their country by doing their job.

Funnily enough, I'm sure the guys who serve couldn't give a toss who you are or what your beliefs are if they are called upon to assist.

Really?

Well Michael Moore managed to write a whole book about it filled with communications from US servicemen who blindly fought in Iraq. Letter after letter blindly highlighted the futility of it all.

We live in an era of war corporatism and we have to question our representatives decisions on conflict. I just feel sorry that our boys have to blindly follow and take part in senseless conflicts. And we have to blindly appreciate their efforts. It shouldn't get to that stage... The poppies should be hurled at Westminster in disgust.

[Gerard]

We are fortunate to live in a society that allows freedom of expression and movement. We are also fortunate that we do not have to serve in the armed forces as there is no conscription. In my opinion we are a very lucky generation not to have been sent to fight for our country.We have a choice to join the armed forces. They do not have a choice where they serve. 100 years ago the young men were sent to fight in a war that we can not imagine the horrors of. There was many Hibs fans and other football fans who would not return to watch their clubs play football. No person on this message board glories in the stupidity of war. We pay our respect the fallen in that war and the many conflicts since then.

[Chuck Rhoades]

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We are fortunate to live in a society that allows freedom of expression and movement. We are also fortunate that we do not have to serve in the armed forces as there is no conscription. In my opinion we are a very lucky generation not to have been sent to fight for our country.We have a choice to join the armed forces. They do not have a choice where they serve. 100 years ago the young men were sent to fight in a war that we can not imagine the horrors of. There was many Hibs fans and other football fans who would not return to watch their clubs play football. No person on this message board glories in the stupidity of war. We pay our respect the fallen in that war and the many conflicts since then.

Great post, and where I was trying to go with my earlier post.

[marinello59]

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Really?

Well Michael Moore managed to write a whole book about it filled with communications from US servicemen who blindly fought in Iraq. Letter after letter blindly highlighted the futility of it all.

We live in an era of war corporatism and we have to question our representatives decisions on conflict. I just feel sorry that our boys have to blindly follow and take part in senseless conflicts. And we have to blindly appreciate their efforts. It shouldn't get to that stage... The poppies should be hurled at Westminster in disgust.

Blindly appreciate their efforts? I'm not so sure that anybody on this thread is doing that. You seem to be suggesting that anybody who disagrees with your particular view point is incapable of coherent thought yet there has been thought provoking stuff from posters from all sides of the debate. Surely you can do better than that.

[LancsHibs]

A great touch from Hibs, well done.
There are some people with very odd ideas who post on here I must say

[TheReg!]

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Your last paragraph is a disgrace by the way.

I agree, i apologise mate, I've have deleted it. Just a wee bit hot headed when i get going.

[Lucius Apuleius]

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Why?

Ifyou have to ask it would be a waste of time answering.

As an aside, for those asking, do nurses and firemen not choose to do their jobs as well?

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

[QUOTE=Brizo;4216854]

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[B]

Im a Southside boy myself with a liking for the harp but dearie me , are you for real. To liken hearing loss sustained in a war zone to hearing loss sustained by DJs ! FFS have a word. And do you really think the professions you have named above sustain the same levels of fatalities and injuries as the Armed Forces.

I despair at some of the p@sh on this thread and yours is up there with the worst.

I was being deliberately flippant with the DJ remark, so I apologise for that.

I honestly don't know about the other professions. I suspect not at the moment.

I was responding to the post where the ex soldier stated he didn't want or expect special treatment (which i agree with) then proceeded to go on a rant illustrating why we should all give him special treatment, then disparaged a guy that I presume he doesn't know, throwing about words like honour, self sacrifice, and integrity as if those qualities are uniquely held by squaddies. Which i think we can all agree is pish.

I'm not trying to offend anyone, but equally I'm not going to bow to this faux hero-worship of guys who volunteer to do a job. I appreciate I have a minority view, that's fine. Some soldiers are I'm sure heroes, some are I'm sure total wa**s. Like in any walk of life.

PS - i'm talking about the modern, professional armed forces, not the huge conscript armies of the world wars, which are a completely different thing in my view.

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

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Ifyou have to ask it would be a waste of time answering.

As an aside, for those asking, do nurses and firemen not choose to do their jobs as well?

Yes they do, and the don't get special treatment either (well, i cant speak for firemen but I do know about nurses)

[McIntosh]

The self righteousness of some is really hard to understand. Some espouse a public viewpoint which read in the cold is completely devoid of humanity I am sure they do not act upon this in person. I am sure they love the mothers, the fathers , their sisters, their brothers and their children, if they are so blessed but this bitterness borne possibly from frustration is sadly misguided.

I cannot but feel compassion for all the victim of war - soldiers and all. War is ultimately futile. Victory on so many different levels is a defeat. The average man or woman at arms has and had no real choice. The soldiers, sailors and airman and women are our people, our duty is to look after our people particularly when they have been asked to sacrifice their lives for a folly.

[Islington Hibs]

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I am sorry but you are wrong ! I have served in the Army and during my time I have also served as a fireman when they sacked It, they were on more money than me and only worked a 4 day week and could get another job, I have also stood in as a ambulance driver for them, a prison guard, and a fuel driver for the strikes, this was all to keep you in the life that you have become accustomed.

Soldiers do what you ask them to do, what their country asks them, we don't choose to leave our families for years, to do the jobs that we are asked we just get on with it.

The poppy and the act of remembrance Is not about todays Army but paying respect for the thousands that gave their lives for you! for your freedom, for your right to debate and speak freely. This is not about today but for the past. if is the charities you are concerned about, then am ashamed for you.

God bless the Hibs!

Great post. I am saddened by some of the responses. Soldiers do what is asked of them by their political masters. They are not well paid and often are literally in the line of fire. While I respect that some people may have problems with political decisions to debate whether Hibernian were right to give a few free tickets to serving forces, as a token of respect for those who sacrificed everything they had, is beyond he pail. I salute our brave boys. Well done Hibenian.