HFC remembers

[Keith_M]

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Don't think the club should be involved with this at all.

Why?

[CB_NO3]

If this money contributed to the innocent civilians of Iraq, Afghanistan and the tens of thousands of others that lost limbs etc to the hands of the British Army over the last 100 years I would consider a donation.

If I lost a body part at work, and was medically retired I doubt I would get thousands of pounds in donations. Learning and training to kill does not make you a hero IMO.

I do have respect for the people of WW1 and WW2. They had no choice and they did sacrifice their lives for the cause without taking a wage.

Ill continue to donate to save the children. They kids in Syria and Africa 'really' need it.

[Hibernia&Alba]

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If this money contributed to the innocent civilians of Iraq, Afghanistan and the tens of thousands of others that lost limbs etc to the hands of the British Army over the last 100 years I would consider a donation.

If I lost a body part at work, and was medically retired I doubt I would get thousands of pounds in donations. Learning and training to kill does not make you a hero IMO.

I do have respect for the people of WW1 and WW2. They had no choice and they did sacrifice their lives for the cause without taking a wage.

Ill continue to donate to save the children. They kids in Syria and Africa 'really' need it.

I understand your pint of view, CB, really I do. It's always the innocent who suffer most in any war: the civilians caught in the middle, the children. Iraq is a classic example. Nobody seems to know exactly how many hundreds of thousands have died since the invasion of 2003. But we must also remember that the armed forces who were sent there were lied to just as much as we were. They were given the same spurious justification for the action, but, for them it was even worse, as they were asked to give their lives for those lies. They didn't go there to kill civilians, nor to create the conditions for the sectarian bloodbath that has since transpired. The whole escapade has been a disaster, but in countless cases the troops sent there were victims as much as anybody, just like in other such crazy ventures of the past e.g. Vietnam.

[FranckSuzy]

Have to say that whilst it's a free country, some of the opinions expressed on here are, IMHO, disrespectful to those who either have or are currently serving their country. Therefore, maybe the thread would be better closed..?

[khib70]

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Have to say that whilst it's a free country, some of the opinions expressed on here are, IMHO, disrespectful to those who either have or are currently serving their country. Therefore, maybe the thread would be better closed..?

As an ex-serviceman I totally agree with you up until the last sentence. Many of those who fell died to protect our right to live in a society where diverse opinions exist. There are several posters here who object to the remembrance event and make an articulate (if IMO misguided) case for their position. There are others who just spout sloganising, disrespectful pish about "Rangers fans", and we need the thread to be able to challenge their simplistic weekend-rebel polemic.

I recommend everyone read McIntosh's posts on this thread for an articulate and compassionate view on how we can support remembrance without glorifying warfare.

[FranckSuzy]

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As an ex-serviceman I totally agree with you up until the last sentence. Many of those who fell died to protect our right to live in a society where diverse opinions exist. There are several posters here who object to the remembrance event and make an articulate (if IMO misguided) case for their position. There are others who just spout sloganising, disrespectful pish about "Rangers fans", and we need the thread to be able to challenge their simplistic weekend-rebel polemic.

I recommend everyone read McIntosh's posts on this thread for an articulate and compassionate view on how we can support remembrance without glorifying warfare.

[Turkish Green]

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What grates is the fact that other charities are clearly losing out to HfH.I've absolutely no qualms popping a couple of quid in a tin to buy a poppy, or standing a round of drinks for a few Chelsea Pensioners or visiting Canadians in Northern Belgium – but other charities are being compromised.

And in case some you missed my link…here it is again.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/ar...ervicemen.html

Remembrance Day is just that a day to remember; to remember all those that were killed in service of our country. The political whys and the wherefores are not something for argument here.

What Hibs and QoS are doing is a good thing.

I give to a handful of charities by direct debit every month, however, I checked beforehand that the money I give goes (in the most part) to the needy and not the management. I agree with Sergey that many charities are run as a profit centre to the benefit of those that manage it rather than for those they are meant to help.

[Wighty76]

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What a load of pash. My brother served in the Scots Guards for 11 years, established an unofficial Hounslow HSC and is now the President of the Australian HSC. There are also serving forces (and ex) personnel who currently post on here.

Suzy I spent a year attached to the Scots Guards when they were based in Munster. Good lads.

No no many hibbies though.

[Hibrandenburg]

People need to stop blaming soldiers for the mistakes of politicians.

[Andy74]

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People need to stop blaming soldiers for the mistakes of politicians.

We should also stop giving them special status in my opinion. These days it's a job they choose to do and for the most part is no more dangerous than many other professions.

[marinello59]

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We should also stop giving them special status in my opinion. These days it's a job they choose to do and for the most part is no more dangerous than many other professions.

If this thread was about giving Nurses or Firemen a bit of deserved recognition for doing a tough job then there would be nothing but praise handed out.
Soldiers? An excuse for some to air their own prejudices, political agendas and even belittle what they do. Sometimes this place can be pretty mean spirited.

[Andy74]

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If this thread was about giving Nurses or Firemen a bit of deserved recognition for doing a tough job then there would be nothing but praise handed out.
Soldiers? An excuse for some to air their own prejudices, political agendas and even belittle what they do. Sometimes this place can be pretty mean spirited.

I feel much about the same as nurses and firemen! All jobs that people choose to do same as most people.

Will no one think of us poor bank workers?

[Bishop Hibee]

I would have preferred it if the club had quietly had a bucket collection outside the ground without any fuss and a minutes SILENCE, not applause. Joining the race to be seen to be supporting the UK armed forces in the most up-front fashion is a bit sad. It's the modern way to show off about ones charitable giving I suppose. The generation I knew who served in WW1 and WW2 would have been embarrassed about the fuss.

[Hibrandenburg]

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I feel much about the same as nurses and firemen! All jobs that people choose to do same as most people.

Will no one think of us poor bank workers?

Ok I'll amend my statement. People need to stop blaming soldiers for the mistakes of politicians and bankers.

[--------]

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Major McCrae's propaganda piece should be nowhere near a Hibs shirt.

A poem written by a Canadian officer in memory of a friend and comrade killed in action in 1915?

I would say that you comment is more politically charged than McCrae's poem.

[H18Y GW]

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Sorry, i just see they Army faces as Rangers fans.

Do you see Sellick fans as IRA terrorists ?? id guess that this would be a higher percentage than Huns as heroes

[H18Y GW]

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A poem written by a Canadian officer in memory of a friend and comrade killed in action in 1915?

I would say that you comment is more politically charged than McCrae's poem.

The ignorance knows no bounds,your bang on

[Lucius Apuleius]

I must admit to being extremely saddened by this thread.

[Argylehibby]

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I would have preferred it if the club had quietly had a bucket collection outside the ground without any fuss and a minutes SILENCE, not applause. Joining the race to be seen to be supporting the UK armed forces in the most up-front fashion is a bit sad. It's the modern way to show off about ones charitable giving I suppose. The generation I knew who served in WW1 and WW2 would have been embarrassed about the fuss.

So if there is a bucket collection and there is a minutes silence then your only objection is publicising the fact that the clubs are going to auction off the shirts for charity? It would be difficult to auction them without publicising it would it not? The shirts I would assume cannot be used again on the basis of the embroidered message (and probable poppy emblem) so is it not better to maximise their use by holding the auction? The choice of charity is another matter. Or is it the just the fact they are handing out free tickets as a small gesture to show their appreciation of the servicemen and woman that you disagree with? I don't believe that this is anything other than a genuine offer by both clubs to say thanks to the people who defend us, the offer is open to veterans too and I'm sure a number of them will be attending the game as guests of both clubs.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

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I must admit to being extremely saddened by this thread.

The inevitability of it is worse in my mind. My heart sank when I first saw the thread, well done to both clubs from me though.

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

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If this thread was about giving Nurses or Firemen a bit of deserved recognition for doing a tough job then there would be nothing but praise handed out.
Soldiers? An excuse for some to air their own prejudices, political agendas and even belittle what they do. Sometimes this place can be pretty mean spirited.

I think the point that this thread is NOT about nurses and fireman is precisely the point.

As a general rule, when it comes to charitable giving I tend to favour the victims of events over which they have no control - health related for example. Modern soldiers choose to be soldiers.

I do also worry about the US style jingoism that is increasingly being trumpeted around our armed forces, and I don't want the Uk to go down that militaristic road.

However I appreciate that for many (too many?) remembrance and jingoism about the armed forces have become inseparable. The Daily Mail is the fastest growing newspaper in Scotland apparently.

Add in the sense of one-upmanship that Hearts have created in this space, where it seems we are all competing to see who remembers most and best, and I dislike it and don't think we should be doing it. A minute's silence for the fallen used to suffice. Dignified and personal. Now we all have to PR it up to prove we 'support our boys'.

I also have a general belief that Hibs, as a broad church whose fans represent all political beliefs, religions etc, should really just focus on doing what we all Hibs fans do pay their hard-earned towards, and that's being a football team, pure and simple. Leave the charity, community work etc to individual fans to make their own choices that best reflect their own personal beliefs.

[marinello59]

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I think the point that this thread is NOT about nurses and fireman is precisely the point.

As a general rule, when it comes to charitable giving I tend to favour the victims of events over which they have no control - health related for example. Modern soldiers choose to be soldiers.

I do also worry about the US style jingoism that is increasingly being trumpeted around our armed forces, and I don't want the Uk to go down that militaristic road.

However I appreciate that for many (too many?) remembrance and jingoism about the armed forces have become inseparable. The Daily Mail is the fastest growing newspaper in Scotland apparently.

Add in the sense of one-upmanship that Hearts have created in this space, where it seems we are all competing to see who remembers most and best, and I dislike it and don't think we should be doing it. A minute's silence for the fallen used to suffice. Dignified and personal. Now we all have to PR it up to prove we 'support our boys'.

I also have a general belief that Hibs, as a broad church whose fans represent all political beliefs, religions etc, should really just focus on doing what we all Hibs fans do pay their hard-earned towards, and that's being a football team, pure and simple. Leave the charity, community work etc to individual fans to make their own choices that best reflect their own personal beliefs.

No, its not.
And the rest of your post just proves my point.

[H18Y GW]

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I think the point that this thread is NOT about nurses and fireman is precisely the point.

As a general rule, when it comes to charitable giving I tend to favour the victims of events over which they have no control - health related for example. Modern soldiers choose to be soldiers.

I do also worry about the US style jingoism that is increasingly being trumpeted around our armed forces, and I don't want the Uk to go down that militaristic road.

However I appreciate that for many (too many?) remembrance and jingoism about the armed forces have become inseparable. The Daily Mail is the fastest growing newspaper in Scotland apparently.

Add in the sense of one-upmanship that Hearts have created in this space, where it seems we are all competing to see who remembers most and best, and I dislike it and don't think we should be doing it. A minute's silence for the fallen used to suffice. Dignified and personal. Now we all have to PR it up to prove we 'support our boys'.

I also have a general belief that Hibs, as a broad church whose fans represent all political beliefs, religions etc, should really just focus on doing what we all Hibs fans do pay their hard-earned towards, and that's being a football team, pure and simple. Leave the charity, community work etc to individual fans to make their own choices that best reflect their own personal beliefs.

Because its been thought out,this is the worst post on this thread,this is a thread to thank whats going on v QotS ,why not start a thread called " off Hibs" and you can all spit bile and happy clap until its over...

Totally disgusted.

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

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Because its been thought out,this is the worst post on this thread,this is a thread to thank whats going on v QotS ,why not start a thread called " off Hibs" and you can all spit bile and happy clap until its over...

Totally disgusted.

Well your post has clearly not been thought out, and yet I would still say that it is the worst contribution to the debate.

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

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No, its not.
And the rest of your post just proves my point.

When there is a thread discussing a similar initiative for nurses and fireman, I suppose we will find out.

But the fact there isn't, which I think is the point the previous poster was trying to make.

[CB_NO3]

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I must admit to being extremely saddened by this thread.

Why?

[jakeshibs]

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If this thread was about giving Nurses or Firemen a bit of deserved recognition for doing a tough job then there would be nothing but praise handed out.
Soldiers? An excuse for some to air their own prejudices, political agendas and even belittle what they do. Sometimes this place can be pretty mean spirited.

I am sorry but you are wrong ! I have served in the Army and during my time I have also served as a fireman when they sacked It, they were on more money than me and only worked a 4 day week and could get another job, I have also stood in as a ambulance driver for them, a prison guard, and a fuel driver for the strikes, this was all to keep you in the life that you have become accustomed.

Soldiers do what you ask them to do, what their country asks them, we don't choose to leave our families for years, to do the jobs that we are asked we just get on with it.

The poppy and the act of remembrance Is not about todays Army but paying respect for the thousands that gave their lives for you! for your freedom, for your right to debate and speak freely. This is not about today but for the past. if is the charities you are concerned about, then am ashamed for you.

God bless the Hibs!

[jakeshibs]

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Well done to both clubs.... Being an ex squaddie, I appreciate gestures like this.

me too well said that MAN, and I am proud if Hibs for doing this!!

[Hibernia&Alba]

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I am sorry but you are wrong ! I have served in the Army and during my time I have also served as a fireman when they sacked It, they were on more money than me and only worked a 4 day week and could get another job, I have also stood in as a ambulance driver for them, a prison guard, and a fuel driver for the strikes, this was all to keep you in the life that you have become accustomed.

Soldiers do what you ask them to do, what their country asks them, we don't choose to leave our families for years, to do the jobs that we are asked we just get on with it.

The poppy and the act of remembrance Is not about todays Army but paying respect for the thousands that gave their lives for you! for your freedom, for your right to debate and speak freely. This is not about today but for the past. if is the charities you are concerned about, then am ashamed for you.

God bless the Hibs!

I think you may have gotten the wrong end of the stick about Marinello's post, Jake.

[jakeshibs]

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I think you may have gotten the wrong end of the stick about Marinello's post, Jake.

if I have I will apologise. I am proud of hibs for doing this really am....