Dortmund

[southern hibby]

Now I'm not claiming what I say next would happen however ( and yes I'm probably opening a can of worms BUT ) we need to offer sky / BT Sports something that England doesn't.

If we had Summer football I believe that Sky / BTSports would be falling over themselves to show our games. This would allow the TV companies to have football shown all year round, which would bring I'n a vast more superior amount I'n TV revenues for our leagues.

I believe we would also see a vast superior attendance at games because there are more chance of people going to games I'n warm weather than I'n the middle of winter. Kids have all their computer games etc and a large number don't want to go out I'n the cold etc when they can play them indoors.

Also this would give our teams ( hopefully ) a better chance I'n Europe as we could have X amount of games under our belt and not just several pre-season before starting on our European Tour. If you use Sweden as an example they seem to get into qualifying stages easier than Scottish teams.

I really don't know if it would be advantageous or not. However I feel that if enough research went into it by the SFA then may be worth a shout if the numbers add up.

GGTTH

[Alex Trager]

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Now I'm not claiming what I say next would happen however ( and yes I'm probably opening a can of worms BUT ) we need to offer sky / BT Sports something that England doesn't.

If we had Summer football I believe that Sky / BTSports would be falling over themselves to show our games. This would allow the TV companies to have football shown all year round, which would bring I'n a vast more superior amount I'n TV revenues for our leagues.

I believe we would also see a vast superior attendance at games because there are more chance of people going to games I'n warm weather than I'n the middle of winter. Kids have all their computer games etc and a large number don't want to go out I'n the cold etc when they can play them indoors.

Also this would give our teams ( hopefully ) a better chance I'n Europe as we could have X amount of games under our belt and not just several pre-season before starting on our European Tour. If you use Sweden as an example they seem to get into qualifying stages easier than Scottish teams.

I really don't know if it would be advantageous or not. However I feel that if enough research went into it by the SFA then may be worth a shout if the numbers add up.

GGTTH

All good points I must admit

[Time For Heroes]

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Now I'm not claiming what I say next would happen however ( and yes I'm probably opening a can of worms BUT ) we need to offer sky / BT Sports something that England doesn't.

If we had Summer football I believe that Sky / BTSports would be falling over themselves to show our games. This would allow the TV companies to have football shown all year round, which would bring I'n a vast more superior amount I'n TV revenues for our leagues.

I believe we would also see a vast superior attendance at games because there are more chance of people going to games I'n warm weather than I'n the middle of winter. Kids have all their computer games etc and a large number don't want to go out I'n the cold etc when they can play them indoors.

Also this would give our teams ( hopefully ) a better chance I'n Europe as we could have X amount of games under our belt and not just several pre-season before starting on our European Tour. If you use Sweden as an example they seem to get into qualifying stages easier than Scottish teams.

I really don't know if it would be advantageous or not. However I feel that if enough research went into it by the SFA then may be worth a shout if the numbers add up.

GGTTH

Excellent Post IMO

[Haymaker]

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If we had Summer football I believe that Sky / BTSports would be falling over themselves to show our games. This would allow the TV companies to have football shown all year round, which would bring I'n a vast more superior amount I'n TV revenues for our leagues.

I believe we would also see a vast superior attendance at games because there are more chance of people going to games I'n warm weather than I'n the middle of winter. Kids have all their computer games etc and a large number don't want to go out I'n the cold etc when they can play them indoors.

Also this would give our teams ( hopefully ) a better chance I'n Europe as we could have X amount of games under our belt and not just several pre-season before starting on our European Tour. If you use Sweden as an example they seem to get into qualifying stages easier than Scottish teams.

I really don't know if it would be advantageous or not. However I feel that if enough research went into it by the SFA then may be worth a shout if the numbers add up.

GGTTH

If we had summer football we would have, roughly, 3 months where there was no English football - interrupted every other year by Englands involvement in a World or European championship (and possibly Scotlands involvement if we qualify). Our league would have to start somewhere around February and end somewhere in November, so only the gap between English football being Mid-May to Mid- August.

We would still have to go to games in the cold and wet, just at the beginning and end of the season rather than in the middle. Who would want to win the SC in the pissing cold wind and rain in late November? Attendances might increase slightly in the summer months however if we are still playing ***** football they wont. Attendances climb with success on the park, not weather IMO.

As someone who has grown up in England and also works in English football, the level of ignorance to the Scottish game is huge. Most people I meet have no knowledge about it and generally refer to English football as "mickey mouse" or "****". I firmly disagree that SKY or BT Sports would fall over themselves for a few games every year. It may increase revenues slightly however I don't believe it would be drastic or vast improvement on what we receive now.

If SKY or BT thought there was a significant demand for summer football they would be stuffing the Scandinavian leagues down or throats or South American leagues - there simply isn't a demand for it IMO. The majority of English football fans switch off and either watch cricket or another summer type sport. Again, from personal experience, the English have no time for Scottish football, most watch Spanish or German highlights but not a live Scottish game. I generally refer to myself as a West Ham supporter as I have gotten bored of explaining that Hibernian FC are actually a football club and the Scottish league isn't just The Rangers and Celtc (also, my opinion on football is received better).

The idea we would do better in Europe is true, we might struggle if we continue in Europe round until February where we would be starting the season again but swings and roundabouts!

I fully agree that Scottish football needs a massive change and overhaul but summer football is not, imo, the answer to our problems.

[NAE NOOKIE]

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Now I'm not claiming what I say next would happen however ( and yes I'm probably opening a can of worms BUT ) we need to offer sky / BT Sports something that England doesn't.

If we had Summer football I believe that Sky / BTSports would be falling over themselves to show our games. This would allow the TV companies to have football shown all year round, which would bring I'n a vast more superior amount I'n TV revenues for our leagues.

I believe we would also see a vast superior attendance at games because there are more chance of people going to games I'n warm weather than I'n the middle of winter. Kids have all their computer games etc and a large number don't want to go out I'n the cold etc when they can play them indoors.

Also this would give our teams ( hopefully ) a better chance I'n Europe as we could have X amount of games under our belt and not just several pre-season before starting on our European Tour. If you use Sweden as an example they seem to get into qualifying stages easier than Scottish teams.

I really don't know if it would be advantageous or not. However I feel that if enough research went into it by the SFA then may be worth a shout if the numbers add up.# GGTTH

There's been many a discussion on here about this SH ..... I am firmly in the camp that supports trying summer football for the reasons you have given here ( especially the TV one ) and a number of others, including:

You don't need to pay to use undersoil heating
You don't need floodlights as much
Folk can wear that expensive Hibs top without 2 layers underneath and a coat on top
You can sit outside to drink your pint
The pitches will be 100% better
Travel to games is easier
Hibs ... based in a huge tourist destination ... can finally tap into that market, which for some reason they have ignored

[NAE NOOKIE]

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If we had summer football we would have, roughly, 3 months where there was no English football - interrupted every other year by Englands involvement in a World or European championship (and possibly Scotlands involvement if we qualify). Our league would have to start somewhere around February and end somewhere in November, so only the gap between English football being Mid-May to Mid- August.

We would still have to go to games in the cold and wet, just at the beginning and end of the season rather than in the middle. Who would want to win the SC in the pissing cold wind and rain in late November? Attendances might increase slightly in the summer months however if we are still playing ***** football they wont. Attendances climb with success on the park, not weather IMO.

As someone who has grown up in England and also works in English football, the level of ignorance to the Scottish game is huge. Most people I meet have no knowledge about it and generally refer to English football as "mickey mouse" or "****". I firmly disagree that SKY or BT Sports would fall over themselves for a few games every year. It may increase revenues slightly however I don't believe it would be drastic or vast improvement on what we receive now.

If SKY or BT thought there was a significant demand for summer football they would be stuffing the Scandinavian leagues down or throats or South American leagues - there simply isn't a demand for it IMO. The majority of English football fans switch off and either watch cricket or another summer type sport. Again, from personal experience, the English have no time for Scottish football, most watch Spanish or German highlights but not a live Scottish game. I generally refer to myself as a West Ham supporter as I have gotten bored of explaining that Hibernian FC are actually a football club and the Scottish league isn't just The Rangers and Celtc (also, my opinion on football is received better).

The idea we would do better in Europe is true, we might struggle if we continue in Europe round until February where we would be starting the season again but swings and roundabouts!

I fully agree that Scottish football needs a massive change and overhaul but summer football is not, imo, the answer to our problems.

You make some good points Haymaker. But the highlighted bit, especially the bit in brackets .......... as a Hibby you must be aware of the motto of Leith.

[Haymaker]

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There's been many a discussion on here about this SH ..... I am firmly in the camp that supports trying summer football for the reasons you have given here ( especially the TV one ) and a number of others, including:

You don't need to pay to use undersoil heating
You don't need floodlights as much
Folk can wear that expensive Hibs top without 2 layers underneath and a coat on top
You can sit outside to drink your pint
The pitches will be 100% better
Travel to games is easier
Hibs ... based in a huge tourist destination ... can finally tap into that market, which for some reason they have ignored

I agree with all but the one in bold NN - If it is a bitter, wet winter when we start in mid-February, we could rip the pitch to shreds before the grass growing season/nicer weather.

Although with money saved on floodlights and US heating (which would only be needed for the first and last few home games) you could reinvest it into a better standard of pitch/more groundstaff I suppose.

[Haymaker]

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You make some good points Haymaker. But the highlighted bit, especially the bit in brackets .......... as a Hibby you must be aware of the motto of Leith.

Depends on the person I am talking to. The usual donut in the pub I cant be bothered to explain it!

[green&left]

The only reason there is the gulf between English & Scottish football these days is 100% down to Sky Sports and other broadcasting companies. Now people want to re-structure our entire setup to allow Sky & BT better broadcasting revenue. Couldn't make it up.

Personally i'd rather we got the TV cameras to **** as opposed to shifting our league round to suit them.

[southern hibby]

S,

Unfortunately we need cash to buy / pay players, pay overheads and I'n general compete against lower English teams when it comes to getting signatures.

I'm not saying my way is correct but I do believe it would bring money ( that is desperately needed ) to our game.

If you have ideas on how to bring this money into our ge then please enlighten us.

One thing I do know is our game is stagnant and has been for numerous years now. We have an international team not qualified for anything since 98 ( however they are playing well at present ) we have an SFA that are only interested on the Ugly Sisters and something needs done.

GGTTH

[DC_Hibs]

Thankfully we don't encourage this type of ph@nny to our games like the cheque book clubs down south
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/foo...lose-CSKA.html

Surprised he put his camera phone down for long enough to make his pieces!

Deary me.

[green&left]

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S,

Unfortunately we need cash to buy / pay players, pay overheads and I'n general compete against lower English teams when it comes to getting signatures.

I'm not saying my way is correct but I do believe it would bring money ( that is desperately needed ) to our game.

If you have ideas on how to bring this money into our ge then please enlighten us.

One thing I do know is our game is stagnant and has been for numerous years now. We have an international team not qualified for anything since 98 ( however they are playing well at present ) we have an SFA that are only interested on the Ugly Sisters and something needs done.

GGTTH

I'm not convinced it would bring in any more money, especially seeing as there is absolute no competition from other broadcasters, they won't significantly improve the deal because they simply don't need to. Pus St Mirren v Aberdeen for an English punter would be like us watching Colchester v Swindon, and how many of us would tune in for that?

In 2011/12 we (SPL) had the 9th largest attendances in Europe and had the largest percentage of population going to matches (1.65%).

Regards to the last point the game has stagnated nationally however I don't see what changing the league timings would do to fix that. And the very last point about SFA only being interested in der hun and sellick - there was proposals put forward and meetings had after the huns died about changing the 11-1 voting structure which Aberdeen blocked and further meetings after that about league reconstruction which St Mirren and Ross County blocked.

[green&left]

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Thankfully we don't encourage this type of ph@nny to our games like the cheque book clubs down south
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/foo...lose-CSKA.html

Surprised he put his camera phone down for long enough to make his pieces!

Deary me.

Not surprised in the slightest.

One of the guys I work with is an ex-City season ticket holder and now compares going to the games like going to Alton Towers. Coach trips of dafties out for a day out who havn't been to a game in their puff walking about in half city half man utd scarfs etc.

They also had to do buy one get one free on tickets for the CSKA game (Priced at only £25 aswell!!!)

[southern hibby]

S,

We will probably never find out if summer football would bring I'n money or not, because as much as I would like it to happen I can't see it ever being voted I'n.

One thing I do know is something radical needs to be done because our game is stagnating and has been as I've already stated for years.

GGTTH

[tamig]

Good article by Graham Hunter on Dortmund's fortunes this season so far;

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/foo...-doldrums.html

[NAE NOOKIE]

Just to inject a wee bit of sunshine into the subject.

Lets not dismiss the fact that last season Aberdeen, Dundee Utd and St Johnstone took what was for them huge followings to the League and Scottish cup finals ..... Utd's was a club record.

I know that finals bring out the armchair fans, but the positive thing is that these people had enough interest to turn out for their clubs on the day. Enough folk were bothered about Hibs for 18,000 to turn out for the Hamilton game.

Folk out there still like Scottish football and identify with their clubs. There is still a market to be tapped into, if we can find a way to do it.

[PeeJay]

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Just to inject a wee bit of sunshine into the subject.

Lets not dismiss the fact that last season Aberdeen, Dundee Utd and St Johnstone took what was for them huge followings to the League and Scottish cup finals ..... Utd's was a club record.

I know that finals bring out the armchair fans, but the positive thing is that these people had enough interest to turn out for their clubs on the day. Enough folk were bothered about Hibs for 18,000 to turn out for the Hamilton game.

Folk out there still like Scottish football and identify with their clubs. There is still a market to be tapped into, if we can find a way to do it.

Says it all really - improve the football, make it more competitive, and cater more to the fans, i.e. stop the ridiculous KO times and dates and let them drink a beer inside the stadium - it's not and never has been anything to do with the weather. Personally, I'd get rid of the tv as well, but that's almost as likely as us winning the SC, I guess.

[DC_Hibs]

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Good article by Graham Hunter on Dortmund's fortunes this season so far;

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/foo...-doldrums.html

Hard to take seriously when some slaver adds the following caption to a photo in the article.
"Dortmund’s Westfalenstadion has arguably the most boisterous atmosphere of any ground in Europe"

Authorities on world football from the comfort of their own armchair.

[tamig]

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Hard to take seriously when some slaver adds the following caption to a photo in the article.
"Dortmund’s Westfalenstadion has arguably the most boisterous atmosphere of any ground in Europe"

Authorities on world football from the comfort of their own armchair.

To be fair, I think that's an observation made by many fans and commentators who've taken in a game in that magnificent arena.
Not sure how the caption deflects from Graham Hunter's article though.

[DC_Hibs]

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To be fair, I think that's an observation made by many fans and commentators who've taken in a game in that magnificent arena.
Not sure how the caption deflects from Graham Hunter's article though.

And what are they comparing it to then. Spl/epl or europes top games?

Agreed before its a great stadium but praising their fans would be laughed at in germany

[PeeJay]

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And what are they comparing it to then. Spl/epl or europes top games?

Agreed before its a great stadium but praising their fans would be laughed at in germany

No it wouldn't (although maybe the fans "Auf Schalke"!) - otherwise we (in Germany) know what a great atmosphere there is in the Westfalenstadion, it's a great place to play and enjoy football, can't think why you would think it is anything else? What are you judging your opinion on then? It may not be "the best" but it is certainly up there ... IMO

[hibsbollah]

All this talk about how money rules football completely ignores whats happening in Ligue 1 this season. Olympique Marseille is 4 points clear of the moneybags at PSG despite spending about a tenth of what the gulf money fueled Parisians have spent on players. (Allez OM tomorrow in le classique!) Also who would have thought Celtic would be languishing in midtable behind Hamilton ICT etc in November? (Cmon the sheep the morn).

There is hope.

[Onceinawhile]

Bottom of the league at the moment. If only we were more like them.

[tamig]

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And what are they comparing it to then. Spl/epl or europes top games?

Agreed before its a great stadium but praising their fans would be laughed at in germany

Not really sure what point you're trying to make. That ground is generally acknowledged to be one of the most atmospheric in world football - compared to anywhere. And the Dortmund fans are a huge part of that. What do you know about how the Dortmund fans are perceived in Germany? Would be interested to know.

http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11946/8668725/fans-stadium-success-why-are-borussia-dortmund-not-seen-as-european-giants

[DC_Hibs]

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Not really sure what point you're trying to make. That ground is generally acknowledged to be one of the most atmospheric in world football - compared to anywhere. And the Dortmund fans are a huge part of that. What do you know about how the Dortmund fans are perceived in Germany? Would be interested to know.

http://www1.skysports.com/football/n...uropean-giants

Lived in Frankfurt for five and a half years and followed them home and away and still go back over plenty.....with loads of others from Edinburgh making the trip also. Have also been to Fenerbache/Galatasaray, Krakow derby, Belgrade derby and Zagreb/Split (and Boca/River outwith Europe) so I know enough about decent atmospheres. There's plenty other fans far better than them in Germany.....and without a large percentage of gloryhunters....and British daytrippers.

I'm fed up reading about how good their fans are when those making comparisons are basing it on champions league TV normally.

Common song from away fans there - "Wo ist denn die Gelbe Wand ihr wichser"

Translates as where's the yellow wall you *******.

Regards

[DC_Hibs]

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No it wouldn't (although maybe the fans "Auf Schalke"!) - otherwise we (in Germany) know what a great atmosphere there is in the Westfalenstadion, it's a great place to play and enjoy football, can't think why you would think it is anything else? What are you judging your opinion on then? It may not be "the best" but it is certainly up there ... IMO

See previous reply and it's also the opinion of Frankfurt friends mainly with no grudge to bear against Dortmund when I tell them about OTT press coverage in the UK about Dortmund fans.

I've been to away games with a fraction of the 80k crowds in Dortmund and far better atmosphere.
Based on being in 95% of stadiums in the top two leagues and many others in addition.

[NAE NOOKIE]

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Lived in Frankfurt for five and a half years and followed them home and away and still go back over plenty.....with loads of others from Edinburgh making the trip also. Have also been to Fenerbache/Galatasaray, Krakow derby, Belgrade derby and Zagreb/Split (and Boca/River outwith Europe) so I know enough about decent atmospheres. There's plenty other fans far better than them in Germany.....and without a large percentage of gloryhunters....and British daytrippers.

I'm fed up reading about how good their fans are when those making comparisons are basing it on champions league TV normally.

Common song from away fans there - "Wo ist denn die Gelbe Wand ihr wichser"

Translates as where's the yellow wall you *******.

Regards

If we finally manage to get a singing / standing section in the FF will it be the Green Dyke