David Farrell's view on the Edinburgh derby

[Dunbar Hibee]

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Chatting to a Hearts youth coach a few weeks ago (good hibby too) and despite the fact that he coaches a young side who don't play in a competitive league, he was told right from his first day that they don't lose to Hibs. Drilling the mindset into the youngsters from day one that they don't lose to Hibs. That's all the way through the club. Gives you a decent insight to how they treat derbies.

Ryan McGowan tweeted the same not so long ago. Wish we had that mentality.

[lyonhibs]

Anyone who thinks are shabby derby record is not at least partly down to a clear difference in mentality between Hibs and Hearts, regardless of the nominal "quality" of the players on show, has been on the happy juice.

[Keith_M]

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Fair enough.We all have different interests. Hardly personal though if you choose to post it on the worldwideweb as you have. However. Do you think David Farrell was that good a player for us that his insight counts for much?
Will we seek the wit and wisdom of Roy Donovan in 20 years or so?

Farrell was a professional footballer with limited ability, which he admits, but played in enough derbies to have an insight into the mindset of both sides. His view tallies with the results over the years and confirms what most of us have long suspected.

How many Edinburgh derbies have you played in?

[matty_f]

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Ryan McGowan tweeted the same not so long ago. Wish we had that mentality.

The ironic thing there is their youth teams regularly lose to our youth sides.

[Thecat23]

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Bollox. He says himself why we never won too many derbies. We carried too much *****. He is one of dozens who are culpable for our record.

Nine attempts he admits to. And nowt. Interesting that he adds Brian Hamilton to the list of quality we had. By virtue of his LC winners medal, Hamilton edges the quality barometer over David Farrell, a name often overlooked in crap Hibs player threads. He might sound like a Hibby. But so am I and I never got past the Maybury leagues.


This is a component part of our early 90s 'engine room' who asked to keep the match ball because he managed to score a goal once. Even Alex Miller had the positivity to tell him to **** off.


When the quality (and graft) of the likes of Wee Jimmy, Paddy, Arthur, big Dode, Russell, Franck or Mixu write a Derby blog I might start to pay attention.

You have completely missed the whole point of his story. It's not whether he was a poor player or not he's telling everyone that instead of Hibs treating this as a massive game like Hearts do, we seem to play it down and treat it like we are playing St. Mirren or Ross County.

Hibs attitude needs to change as this isn't a normal game it's against are rivals who can't stand each other. Not only that our record is horrific so maybe the players need to read this and hype themselves up, and for once batter into them like they do to us.

You win your individual battle along with most of your team mates chances are you win the game.


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[LeithBoozy]

Certainly, it must be the worst kept secret in Edinburgh that wallet Mercer slipped them plenty for a derby win. Still that does not explain our crap record during Vlads reign, when he didn't even pay their wages?

[The Tubs]

He makes the same point that Sauzee talks about in some Hibs video.

Sauzee mentions how Yogi drills it into all the players how they should perform in derbies. We also had the best derby record during my life in that period, though some of the players were no bad too.

Hopefully the players get that message for Sunday.

[emerald green]

The $64,000 dollar question is WHY has there been this seemingly different attitude towards the derby between the two clubs on so many occasions?

It doesn't need a genius to notice the difference in attitude when one club frequently (not always) ends up losing or drawing matches they really should have won. It's been happening for years. It's nothing new. Farrell himself talks about games in the early 90s FFS. Why has that attitude not been drummed into the mentality at ER too? What's the problem? Presumably only the coaches and players can answer that question.

Winning football matches isn't just about ability. Good teams also need toughness - both physical and mental, organisation, and good strong leadership on and off the pitch, and dare I say it, a bit of nastiness when the going gets tough (I'm not talking about deliberately going out to injure opponents BTW).

[TowerHibs]

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The $64,000 dollar question is WHY has there been this seemingly different attitude towards the derby between the two clubs on so many occasions?

It doesn't need a genius to notice the difference in attitude when one club frequently (not always) ends up losing or drawing matches they really should have won. It's been happening for years. It's nothing new. Farrell himself talks about games in the early 90s FFS. Why has that attitude not been drummed into the mentality at ER too? What's the problem? Presumably only the coaches and players can answer that question.

Winning football matches isn't just about ability. Good teams also need toughness - both physical and mental, organisation, and good strong leadership on and off the pitch, and dare I say it, a bit of nastiness when the going gets tough (I'm not talking about deliberately going out to injure opponents BTW).

i think its about a Culture at the clubs are so different. These are driven by owners and the board to lay the whole foundations of the mindset of the club. We have an owner that, yes cares but lacks the desired passion for the club that i would like to see. From there, it takes many years for that mindset to flow all the way down the club to the players and even the fans.

Hearts have a right few basket cases in control there but one constant i feel is how much getting one over Hibs means to them. A derby win immediately makes a feel good factor around the club not matter what **** is going on in the background. Clubs like Hibs, Hearts do not getting many shots of winning anything......but get a good run in the Derby and it can be become a memorable period for the club and thats why it should not be treated like a normal league game

[cam2644]

Sums it up perfectly.

[green day]

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The ironic thing there is their youth teams regularly lose to our youth sides.

Yep, so I put it down to senior team coaches/attitudes. Hopefully our all new backroom staff won't accept that pish attitude

[3pm]

I remember Farrell crunching Hateley in the 93 Cup Final. I thought Hateley was dead.

Better with someone like Farrell than a couple of the boys in the current midfield. At least, you can say he contributed something.

[emerald green]

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i think its about a Culture at the clubs are so different. These are driven by owners and the board to lay the whole foundations of the mindset of the club. We have an owner that, yes cares but lacks the desired passion for the club that i would like to see. From there, it takes many years for that mindset to flow all the way down the club to the players and even the fans.

Good points Tower, particularly the bit in bold. That's what I was getting at too when I referred to strong leadership on and off the pitch in my previous post.

[Smartie]

Brilliant article, nail on head imo.

I liked Farrell as a player and he seems to have a good handle on what he offered. He had his limitations but was hard as nails and gave his all.

And iirc the goal referred to on this thread was an absolute peach.

[bigwheel]

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20 years son!

did the tracksuit fit well .?

[Higgy115]

Well written wee blog. Quite like DF myself, as previous posters say, knew his limitations but gave all. Hope he does well in whatever he does.

[eastterrace]

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The $64,000 dollar question is WHY has there been this seemingly different attitude towards the derby between the two clubs on so many occasions?

It doesn't need a genius to notice the difference in attitude when one club frequently (not always) ends up losing or drawing matches they really should have won. It's been happening for years. It's nothing new. Farrell himself talks about games in the early 90s FFS. Why has that attitude not been drummed into the mentality at ER too? What's the problem? Presumably only the coaches and players can answer that question.

Winning football matches isn't just about ability. Good teams also need toughness - both physical and mental, organisation, and good strong leadership on and off the pitch, and dare I say it, a bit of nastiness when the going gets tough (I'm not talking about deliberately going out to injure opponents BTW).

thing is they deliberately went out to injure our better players, neil berry crocking paul wright for instance and he got away with it.berry was just a big huddie but he knew how to crock a player.

[Iggy Pope]

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You have completely missed the whole point of his story. It's not whether he was a poor player or not he's telling everyone that instead of Hibs treating this as a massive game like Hearts do, we seem to play it down and treat it like we are playing St. Mirren or Ross County.

Hibs attitude needs to change as this isn't a normal game it's against are rivals who can't stand each other. Not only that our record is horrific so maybe the players need to read this and hype themselves up, and for once batter into them like they do to us.

You win your individual battle along with most of your team mates chances are you win the game.


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You've missed my point.
Lack of quality dragged us down then and has done for most of the seasons since. You don't know what goes on in a Hibs Dressing Room anymore than I do.
We only see what's on the pitch. David Farrell wasn't good enough and that's part of the reason we never won a derby he played in.
He can blog all he ****ing wants now. Its 20 years too late.

[HFC 0-7]

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Fair enough.We all have different interests. Hardly personal though if you choose to post it on the worldwideweb as you have. However. Do you think David Farrell was that good a player for us that his insight counts for much?
Will we seek the wit and wisdom of Roy Donovan in 20 years or so?

You dont need to be a great player, or even an average player to provide good insight! He has played in derbies and over 200 games for hibs so can definately provide more insight on Hibs and their preparation than most on here! There are good managers currently that were not good players!

[Iggy Pope]

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did the tracksuit fit well .?

Post # 13 suggests you might not know a player from a tracksuit chum.

[Diclonius]

Good to see more evidence against the "Hearts buy derby wins" myth. The more we externally attribute our reasons for our woeful derby record, the more we'll continue to lose.

[Iggy Pope]

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You dont need to be a great player, or even an average player to provide good insight! He has played in derbies and over 200 games for hibs so can definately provide more insight on Hibs and their preparation than most on here! There are good managers currently that were not good players!

He played 200 games for Hibs you say. He never won in 9 derbies he says.
I say he can blog all he likes about mentality. Wish he had displayed some positive mentality at the time.

Christ, was anyone on here at these games?

Cos he kicked a few people about a bit we are in danger of overlooking the fact that he was ***** and part of the problem

If this was Willie Jamieson or Bobby Flavell or Derek Rodier or Bobby Hutchison or Duncan ****ing Lambie, god help us even James McPake blogging this bollox it would be getting annihilated.

[CRAZYHIBBY]

Farrell done a job for us and gave his all ...he want the greatest but he never hid

[Iggy Pope]

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He makes the same point that Sauzee talks about in some Hibs video.

Sauzee mentions how Yogi drills it into all the players how they should perform in derbies. We also had the best derby record during my life in that period, though some of the players were no bad too.

Hopefully the players get that message for Sunday.

Agreed. Quality being the over riding factor there though Needs a wee bit more than attitude. John O'Neill and Matty Jack or David Farrell and Brian Hamilton anyone?

[lord bunberry]

It's all very well drilling it into the laddies head's that we must beat hearts but how many players from our youth teams will start on Sunday? It's the mentality of our manager coaches and first team that needs to improve. Our record against them at every level below the first team is fine.

[Hiber-nation]

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You've missed my point.
Lack of quality dragged us down then and has done for most of the seasons since. You don't know what goes on in a Hibs Dressing Room anymore than I do.
We only see what's on the pitch. David Farrell wasn't good enough and that's part of the reason we never won a derby he played in.
He can blog all he ****ing wants now. Its 20 years too late.

Yep, I haven't read Farrell's blog but for the most part, we only win Derbies is when we have better players than them, it's nothing to do with attitude. The Tornadoes, the McLeish team, the odd game of the Mowbray/Collins era, a couple of games under Fenlon when hearts were utter gash. On the rare occasions in recent times when we've been above them in the league we usually beat them at Easter Road, with the odd exception. The only time I recall us being the underdogs and winning was the We Are Unbeatable derby. Maybe some statto might try to prove me wrong but I doubt it.

All comes down to quality not midfield scrappers.

[ancient hibee]

Farrell tried hard but wasn't very good and played nowhere near 200 games for the first team.

[Jonnyboy]

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Farrell tried hard but wasn't very good and played nowhere near 200 games for the first team.

http://www.fitbastats.com/hibs/player.php?playerid=6336

[HFC 0-7]

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He played 200 games for Hibs you say. He never won in 9 derbies he says.
I say he can blog all he likes about mentality. Wish he had displayed some positive mentality at the time.

Christ, was anyone on here at these games?

Cos he kicked a few people about a bit we are in danger of overlooking the fact that he was ***** and part of the problem

If this was Willie Jamieson or Bobby Flavell or Derek Rodier or Bobby Hutchison or Duncan ****ing Lambie, god help us even James McPake blogging this bollox it would be getting annihilated.

So do you disagree with what he is saying in that they always seem more up for it or is it just because he is saying it. You seem to have a disliking to him! I have seen many derbies, we have better teams, they have better teams sometimes they are about average, but overall they have always seemed that little bit more up for it. I think he is spot on with what he says regarding the mentality, they treat the derby like it's the only match, we treat it just like every other game.

you still don't seem to accept that him being a pro footballer, playing for hibs, playing in derbies has insight! He will have a hell of a lot more insight than you!

[HFC 0-7]

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Farrell tried hard but wasn't very good and played nowhere near 200 games for the first team.

No one said first team. Point being, he was at hibs for a long time and can provide more insight than most about the preparation of the team going into a derby.