Speculate to Accumulate (NOW BEFORE IT'S Too LATE).

[Wellbankhibby]

Once again we are on the wrong end of a result against that mob. In my opinion we have to buy players now. Far too often we are bullied and assaulted by these gangsters. They cheated there way to beating us in cup finals buy buying players they could never afford and they have ALWAYS fielded assasins against us. There priority is to manhandle us and kick us off the park.
The sad thing is that this is nothing new and we have watched this for years. That is there style of play they make themselves hard to beat and unfortunately our players are intimidated by them. We are normally beaten before we start the game. This has to be a psychological thing. We must get new players in Now. We have loads of time to win this league but it will only happen if the board and management act now. Rangers and hearts are there for the taking. It is up to the powers that be to get New players in now. As a team we are a soft touch and have been for many years, we are normally a much better football team than them but what good is that when we are not allowed to play. As for the officials yesterday another disgusting performance as they stood and watched the thugs carry out there business as usual. Baubin, Sow and Ozturk should all have been dismissed before half time. A Message to the Board Please sign players now, this is our chance to win this league and get back to our rightful place. I have not seen anything to worry us. The time for Action is NOW.

[eastterrace]

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Once again we are on the wrong end of a result against that mob. In my opinion we have to buy players now. Far too often we are bullied and assaulted by these gangsters. They cheated there way to beating us in cup finals buy buying players they could never afford and they have ALWAYS fielded assasins against us. There priority is to manhandle us and kick us off the park.
The sad thing is that this is nothing new and we have watched this for years. That is there style of play they make themselves hard to beat and unfortunately our players are intimidated by them. We are normally beaten before we start the game. This has to be a psychological thing. We must get new players in Now. We have loads of time to win this league but it will only happen if the board and management act now. Rangers and hearts are there for the taking. It is up to the powers that be to get New players in now. As a team we are a soft touch and have been for many years, we are normally a much better football team than them but what good is that when we are not allowed to play. As for the officials yesterday another disgusting performance as they stood and watched the thugs carry out there business as usual. Baubin, Sow and Ozturk should all have been dismissed before half time. A Message to the Board Please sign players now, this is our chance to win this league and get back to our rightful place. I have not seen anything to worry us. The time for Action is NOW.

wasting your breath mate , we aint spending much. we are down here for two seasons thats my take on it. we just have to weather the next few seasons.

[smurf]

No chance under this owner and board. I'm not so sure they'd even go the extra mile if Griffiths was available...

[AL-Qaholik]

8 players in yesterday's starting 11 contributed (some VERY centrally) to our relagation.
That is a damning indictment of where we are and where we will continue to be until MAJOR changes are made at the very top of the club. We MIGHT scrape 4th but, unless there is a total change in direction, mentality and board/ownership, we are down for two seasons at the very least...

[lord bunberry]

The boat should be pushed out and griffiths signed on a permanent contract

[Franck Stanton]

lets face it, unless we sign at least another 3 quality players we are not going to be an SPFL team next year. Will we win the league ? No. Will we make the play - off in 2nd,3rd or 4th ? Yes. however, in doing that we will have to play hertz over two games and, on the evidence of the past , what 20years or so, do you really expect us to beat them in games that REALLY matter ?

[Northernhibee]

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The boat should be pushed out and griffiths signed on a permanent contract

I couldn't see Celtic selling him for less than £1m and there's no way on earth we have that kind of money at all.

You can't spend what you don't have.

[greenpaper55]

The board had the chance last new year time and look what we got, every one was useless and Rod and TF could not care less if it takes years to get out of the championship as long as it does not cost them a penny.

[lucky]

You can only speculate if you have the money to do so. Only Celtic have bought any players this summer so it not going happen.

[Wellbankhibby]

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You can only speculate if you have the money to do so. Only Celtic have bought any players this summer so it not going happen.

I think Hibs have the money, they could have had Griffiths last season for a knockdown price.
Look what happens when you wont spend a little he is now with celtic at one million. Take it from me if they dont spend money they will loose a lot more in the long run by staying in the lower leagues.

[scuttle]

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I couldn't see Celtic selling him for less than £1m and there's no way on earth we have that kind of money at all.

You can't spend what you don't have.

Tell that to Sevco and the Yams

[Biggie]

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I couldn't see Celtic selling him for less than £1m and there's no way on earth we have that kind of money at all.

You can't spend what you don't have, unless your hearts.

Fixed that for you NH.....

[Wellbankhibby]

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Tell that to Sevco and the Yams

Exactly, both of these so called clubs have cheated there way to winning league titles and cups and what was their punishment NOTHING. Administration so what. Scottish Football is corrupt play by the rules and get nothing, cheat and win silverware and titles. Its a Joke. Every team who has gone into administration recently has come back far stronger, no debts. Motherwell and the yams and gers. Its disgraceful. Why dont we all cheat. We would be better off.

[jdships]

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I think Hibs have the money, they could have had Griffiths last season for a knockdown price.
Look what happens when you wont spend a little he is now with celtic at one million. Take it from me if they dont spend money they will loose a lot more in the long run by staying in the lower leagues.

That I have been and still am being told is a "Fairy tale"

[Jim44]

Speculate to Accumulate ........... dirty words in the eyes of the present board and have been so for years on end. We are so weak and likely to remain so for the foreseeable future that the only way out is to buy our way out of trouble. Shouldn't happen and won't happen according to most on here who appreciate the 'prudence' of Petrie and Co. and the relatively stable financial footing they have achieved over the past few years. But what has this 'never mind the quality, feel the financial security' mind-set given us for years? .................... zilch!!! I would support a calculated 'gamble' for a season or so, which, if the right players are brought in to the club, would greatly improve the quality and success on the pitch and consequently pay for itself in increased financial input by the supporters. If it didn't work and a return to a couple of year's of 'austerity' was needed to 'pay for the gamble', I don't think many would complain, as at least, we would have 'failed' making a conscious effort to become a challenging club in the process. The alternative is to carry on regardless in a never-ending mediocrity which is getting us nowhere and could keep us in the lower divisions for years on end. .............. but, we know, it ain't gonna happen.

[silverhibee]

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I couldn't see Celtic selling him for less than £1m and there's no way on earth we have that kind of money at all.

You can't spend what you don't have.

Who says we don't have it.

[erskine-hibby]

Too busy bulking up the backroom staff (not that this was not needed also) while the playing side suffers...yet again!
Slow to make a decision on sacking/recruiting a new manager, slow in getting players in and absolutely dead to the idea that actually investing, really investing, in the squad could actually pay dividends in the likes of season tickets sales, gate receipts and merchandise sales.
I'm afraid, though, that we have seen this all too often, it seems that, with Petrie at the helm, we will never learn.

[Iain G]

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Speculate to Accumulate ........... dirty words in the eyes of the present board and have been so for years on end. We are so weak and likely to remain so for the foreseeable future that the only way out is to buy our way out of trouble. Shouldn't happen and won't happen according to most on here who appreciate the 'prudence' of Petrie and Co. and the relatively stable financial footing they have achieved over the past few years. But what has this 'never mind the quality, feel the financial security' mind-set given us for years? .................... zilch!!! I would support a calculated 'gamble' for a season or so, which, if the right players are brought in to the club, would greatly improve the quality and success on the pitch and consequently pay for itself in increased financial input by the supporters. If it didn't work and a return to a couple of year's of 'austerity' was needed to 'pay for the gamble', I don't think many would complain, as at least, we would have 'failed' making a conscious effort to become a challenging club in the process. The alternative is to carry on regardless in a never-ending mediocrity which is getting us nowhere and could keep us in the lower divisions for years on end. .............. but, we know, it ain't gonna happen.

What is a calculated gamble?! And how much money would it take to get us from where we are right now to where you think we could get to? And if it isn't sustainable and we drop back down to mediocrity, with heavier debt, would that not be a worse outcome for the supporters and the club?

The new management team have to be given time to turn the whole nature and structure and mindset of the whole club around.

[cocopops1875]

I enjoyed the OP slagging hearts and calling them gangsters for spending out with their means, while suggesting we spend out with our means. This place honestly makes me cry inside

[lucky]

Don't get this back room staff have been recruited in place of players. We all accept Hibs have been run poorly over the years but don't appear to want to fund the changes.

[lord bunberry]

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I couldn't see Celtic selling him for less than £1m and there's no way on earth we have that kind of money at all.

You can't spend what you don't have.

I doubt he would cost as much as that, iirc he cost them £1m. If they're looking to cut their losses after 6 months then the asking price would be lower.

[Ronniekirk]

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Don't get this back room staff have been recruited in place of players. We all accept Hibs have been run poorly over the years but don't appear to want to fund the changes.

Think changes were coming in Back room but Leeann has driven them further to put solid foundations in to move us forward However she was expecting to be doing that with us in higher division so think it goes without saying that player budget isn't what it would have been had we stayed up .Thats why folk are speculating that she may well behind the scenes be making it clear it's a two year plan to come back up taking some of the pressure off Stubbs but trying her hardest to now fund a few extra players to give us a fighting chance of doing it via playoffs this year . I know she will publicly say we are looking to win it but the fact we have documented on other threads how behind we are with preparations ,signings etc means we are playing catch up from the off in ever sense

[dangermouse]

Speculate to accumulate. To do that, you need money to do the speculation. Unfortunately, too many people have either not renewed or are only just doing so for there to be money in the pot.

I doubt we'll see any new permanent faces now unless Stubbs stumbles over a gem from under the radar.

[eastcoasthibby]

I have said this for the past couple of years, that to progress we need to speculate to accumulate LG was the prime example regardless of whether the deal could have been done at 150k or double that, he earned the club with his goals a couple of million at least !!! the other good example of not speculating was Adam Rooney in January, Petrie wouldn't give him a permanent contract just a loan deal and he went and got a 2 year deal at Aberdeen ..a couple of goals from him would have prevented us being where we are now !!! enough said as it is evident that this Board, Petrie and Farmer are water tight and rigid in their stance. I cannot believe that they cannot see that successful speculation increases the value of the club ..which is their money !! businessmen ?? so the question sits- what is the motivation not to speculate ?

I am might well be wrong but speculation could work/look like this :-
bring in 3 quality players on 4k per week (paying for their quality) = 624 K per year (approx)
bring in 2 quality players on 3k per week = 468 K per year (approx)
= total 1.1 million(approx).

To pay for this -
I feel that we still have at least 1500 ST's from last season not renewed and also another bundle (unknown) who have been sitting waiting to see who we sign that will mark our intent and commitment to getting things right on the park probably 1000 minimum dependent on who we bring in.
So on that basis 2500 x 350 per ST, taking an average of who buys ST's = 875k. a gap of 200K.

This gap and the amount of seasons is the speculation, but just how great is the actual risk, perhaps realistically the worst case is that we would pick up only 1500 new ST's, leaving a 550 k gap.

There is no account taken of any walk-up numbers increasing, an extra 1000 walk ups per game for 10 home games gives us the 200K or merchandising sales, which could easily help bridge the financial gap and of course we may sell the extra 2500 number of ST's.(although i do accept that time is probably running out for ST sales a given all the nonsense about ST value against walk up !!

Whilst I am no doubt sure this will be seen as an overly simplistic view point, but hopefully it will initiate some thinking about what is possible and the rough numbers involved, what is better or worse is that it shows how little in relative terms it could take to give us a real fighting chance of taking this league and getting back up, where the money speculated will come in again much more easily.

What is not mentioned is that IMO and has been mentioned by others, that another year in this league will diminish the support, if no commitment from the Board is seen this season, that shall impact heavily on trying to sell ST's next and so the downward spiral shall continue, hence the belief that this is the time to speculate, where the financial gap is least and we have a manager who looks like really good value even in these early days. Give him the tools to work with.

Is the club and it's immediate future not worth between 500 - 700k at this time.

[NORTHERNHIBBY]

I would guess that Alan Stubbs, as manager, has been given a budget, and then asked if he can use that budget, to get us a top four finish.
We should give him time to get on with that.

[yankyhibby]

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Is the club and it's immediate future not worth between 500 - 700k at this time.

Well done for putting a bit of thought behind the figures. Leeanne Dempster, I'm sure, has done something similar and likely tried every permutation. Time will tell whether the necessary financial investment is executed. The next 2 weeks to the transfer deadline day will reveal the clubs intent. Here's hoping.

[Smartie]

If you want a club who "speculate to accumulate" you better find another one.

We are "ever decreasing circles" and self-fulfilling prophecy of failure" FC.

[NAE NOOKIE]

The current regime will never speculate to accumulate. They did that to build the team that got us back up last time, but that was a league minus the Yams and Zombies .... they wont take the same chance this time.

To make the play offs you need to finish at least 4th and we can surely do that with what we have. If the Zomies win the league and Yams finish second that of course leaves us with the following.

Probable home and away tie with Falkirk, QotS or Raith.

Home and away tie with the Yams

Home and away tie with probably Ross County, St Mirren, Killie, Hamilton or Dundee.

I wouldn't have put money on much much better Hibs teams than this one to make it through that.

Barring a miracle we are down here for at least two seasons. Mind you ........... sometimes miracles happen

All together now to the tune of 'sing when you're winning'

League reconstruction
Its time for league reconstruction
League reconstruuuuuuuuuuuuuction
Its time for league reconstruction.

[Keith_M]

Is there some way I can use my winnings from the German Lottery last weekend to help out?

[Nutmegged]

Speculate to accumulate, those words send shivers down any owners in Scotland, look at Celtic, when THEY don't even speculate to accumulate you must realise its not a gamble worth taking at this time, if this League didn't have Hearts/Rangers in it then I think we would speculate to accumulate as it would be pretry much gauranteed we would go up, but even if we did speculate, with those two teams in the Division it still might not happen so if we're putting all our eggs in the basket of instant promotion and we ultimtaely fail then we could put ourselves in big trouble.


Griffiths is a no-goer, you're talking £1m+ for him and at least £400k per year over a 4 year contract thats an outlay of around £3m - we aren't in a position to be putting that kind of money on a player and definitely not when we arw outwith the top tier of Scottish Football.