Maybe relegation will be the making of us

[worcesterhibby]

The end of last season couldn't have been more depressing. Seeing a poor but safe team turned into a confidence less gaggle of serial losers was like watching a slow motion train wreck. It's a long time since we had a Hibs side with a winning mentality, a real belief that we can and should win every game we play in. For far too long we have looked like a team happy to give it a go andy see if we can pick up points along the way with no real aims or ambitions.

Perhaps relegation has given the team the chance to really feel what it's like to expect to win. Rangers are nothing like the team they were, Hearts are rebuilding and fragile, Falkirk are well drilled but they weren't good enough to get promoted last year. With all due respect the rest offer less in terms of quality and the team we are building (yes I know we need a goalie and at least a couple of others) should be going in to matches against these sides expecting to win, not hoping to nick a result. That is a seismic shift in mentality for the club, we will be expected to dominate the likes of Cowdenbeath, Alloa and QOS. IF we can do that, IF we can stamp our authority on this league and string a good series of wins together where we control the football and dictate the pace it will give the playing staff a whole new outlook. Even the better players in the squad…Stanton, Allan, Farid and Craig have never been in that situation. The Championship offers us the opportunity to change our club mentality to that of winners. We just have to take it. We can win this league, we really can. We're not favourites, we desperately need a good start and we will need some luck along the way, but we CAN win this league. We then need to retain Stubbs, ditch the worst 5 players in the squad, replace them with five that are as good or better than the best five players in the squad and then go again in the Premiership retaining that expectation of winning every game.

We have a huge opportunity to put the joy back into the club and I am encouraged to believe that we have the Manager and CEO to make it happen.

By the last day of last season the club was well and truly broken. Now likes the words of the song, Depster, Stubbs and the playing staff have the opportunity to see the opportunity, Claim the opportunity and change the mentality completely.

Who knows maybe by the end of the season singing Sunshine on Leith to Alan Stubbs with be a cathartic experience.

My club was broken, my club was broken
Sorrow Sorrow Sorrow Sorrow
My club was broken, my club was broken

You saw it, You claimed it
You touched it, You saved it

While I'm worth my room on this earth
I will be with you
While the Chief, puts sunshine on Leith
I'll thank Him for His work
And your birth and my birth.

GGTTH

[jacomo]

I understand your point.

Personally, I still think relegation was an avoidable disaster, and will hurt us. We've missed a huge opportunity to cement our place at the top of Scottish football and will now be involved in a bun fight with Rangers and Hearts just to go up.

On the other hand, if we hadn't been relegated we'd still have Butcher in charge, and I'm glad that man and the decision-making that led to his appointment have now gone.

[Spike Mandela]

It is a fresh start but a fresh start we would be better doing from the scottish Premiership imo. We could offer more on salaries and probably attract better players or at least more of the type we have attracted so far.

We might not win as many games as we will in the Championship but I would rather start the rebuild of Hibs from 11th place in the Top league than from the league below. Yes we would have had Butcher as manager but we would still have had the clearout of the losers we had at the club last season and probably some more of the ones we are still lumbered with.

However, we are where we are and deservedly so but before declaring relegation is some sort of bitter medicine we needed I would rather see how we are coping 10 or so games in to the season.

[Stevie Reid]

Let's hope it is.

As things stand, we face a season where three of the biggest clubs in Scotland are battling to get out of the Championship, and one where every single game will matter - dropped points for any of the big three, or other teams who might fancy themselves for an outside chance, will be viewed as a massive blow. The games between us, Hearts and Rangers will be massive, and any other team facing any of the three of us will be right up for it.

It couldn't be more contrasting than recent seasons, and I am now looking forward to the new season immensely - this coming season, more than any other, will see our chances of success defined by our results against Hearts; if there is ever a time where we start to redress the balance with them, it surely has to be now.

Going to ER for the last few years has largely been boring and depressing - this year it certainly won't be boring, and here's hoping we begin an exciting new chapter on 9 August.

****ing bring it on.

[Zazu62]

If we stayed up terry butcher would still be the manager

[Sir David Gray]

Relegation was, and still is, a disaster for us as a club. Not to mention a total embarrassment.

No matter what happens this season or further into the future, nothing will change my mind on that.

[tamig]

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Let's hope it is.

As things stand, we face a season where three of the biggest clubs in Scotland are battling to get out of the Championship, and one where every single game will matter - dropped points for any of the big three, or other teams who might fancy themselves for an outside chance, will be viewed as a massive blow. The games between us, Hearts and Rangers will be massive, and any other team facing any of the three of us will be right up for it.

It couldn't be more contrasting than recent seasons, and I am now looking forward to the new season immensely - this coming season, more than any other, will see our chances of success defined by our results against Hearts; if there is ever a time where we start to redress the balance with them, it surely has to be now.

Going to ER for the last few years has largely been boring and depressing - this year it certainly won't be boring, and here's hoping we begin an exciting new chapter on 9 August.

****ing bring it on.

Well said.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

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Relegation was, and still is, a disaster for us as a club. Not to mention a total embarrassment.

No matter what happens this season or further into the future, nothing will change my mind on that.

Very much this, being in this division is a disaster.

[col02]

Hibernian as a club and by that I mean everyone associated with the club need to get back into the habit of winning. The past few seasons there has been almost a general acceptance in being beaten as long as the team competed well. I want to start seeing a Hibs team not only compete but dominate sides and win. If they get the balance correct and gain promotion it breeds belief amongst the whole club. Relegation hurt but maybe despite all the implications it may bring with it we can see a resurgent club.

[Turkish Green]

So many bad things. I still shudder to think that at the end of March it was a planned relegation party at the PBS which went pear shaped and then free fall there after.

The good thing to come out of relegation is that we do not have to spend another season watching Butcher's charges hoofing the ball for more losses than wins. Stubbs could turn out to be a diamond in the rough but there is no getting away from it being a very difficult campaign to get promoted first time.

Financially it will take the club years to recover, if it ever fully does.

[Waxy]

I'll never forgive that lot for what they put us through last season. I fully support the new Hibees.

[Ringothedog]

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Very much this, being in this division is a disaster.

Certainly an avoidable disaster BUT if we win the championship I will celebrate as if it was a major title/trophy.

[emerald green]

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Relegation was, and still is, a disaster for us as a club. Not to mention a total embarrassment.

No matter what happens this season or further into the future, nothing will change my mind on that.

Agree with this, although I get where the OP is coming from.

The good thing though is that Butcher & Malpas are away. I do wonder if LD would still have recommended their dismissal if the club had not been relegated?

[Sir David Gray]

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Agree with this, although I get where the OP is coming from.

The good thing though is that Butcher & Malpas are away. I do wonder if LD would still have recommended their dismissal if the club had not been relegated?

Even if they had been retained if we had stayed up, if things were as bad as they appear to have been between the previous management team and the players then they would have been away after a couple of months into this season anyway.

Then we could have brought in the new management team with around six or seven months left of the season and we would still have been a Premiership club.

Now we're a Championship club in a league that's highly competitive and by no means guaranteed to be back up at the first attempt.

There is absolutely nothing positive that can be taken out of our relegation last season.

[emerald green]

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Even if they had been retained if we had stayed up, if things were as bad as they appear to have been between the previous management team and the players then they would have been away after a couple of months into this season anyway.

Then we could have brought in the new management team with around six or seven months left of the season and we would still have been a Premiership club.

Now we're a Championship club in a league that's highly competitive and by no means guaranteed to be back up at the first attempt.

There is absolutely nothing positive that can be taken out of our relegation last season.

Spot on Trig. Agree 100%.

[ahibby]

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Spot on Trig. Agree 100%.

[worcesterhibby]

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There is absolutely nothing positive that can be taken out of our relegation last season.

You are right, there was nothing positive about our relegation last season. However last season was last season.

This season is this season. Different team, different manager, hopefully a new club. True courage, strength and glory are very often forged from adversity. Getting relegated was in NO WAY a positive thing, however the team has the opportunity to use it as springboard to success.

We have all vented our spleens and tried to apportion blame for the state that Hibs found themselves in on the final day of the season. It was to be expected and was deserved. But now we want the team to change mentality and to forge ahead with confidence, flair and determination. If we really want to assist them, we need to do the same as fans.

At the end of the day sport is as much about determination and belief as it is about ability.

[NAE NOOKIE]

It has certainly pushed forward change at the club faster than it would have come, for example it is open to debate whether Butcher would have been sacked if we had stayed up.

The biggest change we need is to be prepared to react quickly when it becomes obvious we need to address a situation .... our failure to take the necessary action to properly address our goal scoring problems in January saved us a few bob at the time and cost us a fortune a few months later. We also need a manager with the brains to change a system which is seen to be failing game after game.

This is the worry I have for the new CEO and manager:

Say we are still in contention for the title in January but our leading scorer breaks his leg. AS tells LD that he must be replaced and he has it on good authority that Jermain Defoe is looking for a club to play for during the MLS close season, he doesn't care where and is willing to turn out for pocket money of £2,000 per week.

Do we repeat the mistake of last season, or will our owner be prepared to look at the big picture and sanction a minor budget busting move based on the manager and CEO telling him that failure to do so will severely dent our promotion chances. Long term planning and changes to the structure at East Mains are definitely good ideas ....... but there will always be tough short term decisions to be made which will affect the clubs long term future. Failure to take the right decisions at those times can badly damage any long term goals, no matter how well planned they are.

Relegation is never a good thing ...... but failure to learn from not just the long term mistakes, but also the short term mistakes which got you there is unforgivable.

We shall see.

[worcesterhibby]

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It has certainly pushed forward change at the club faster than it would have come, for example it is open to debate whether Butcher would have been sacked if we had stayed up.

The biggest change we need is to be prepared to react quickly when it becomes obvious we need to address a situation .... our failure to take the necessary action to properly address our goal scoring problems in January saved us a few bob at the time and cost us a fortune a few months later. We also need a manager with the brains to change a system which is seen to be failing game after game.

This is the worry I have for the new CEO and manager:

Say we are still in contention for the title in January but our leading scorer breaks his leg. AS tells LD that he must be replaced and he has it on good authority that Jermain Defoe is looking for a club to play for during the MLS close season, he doesn't care where and is willing to turn out for pocket money of £2,000 per week.

Do we repeat the mistake of last season, or will our owner be prepared to look at the big picture and sanction a minor budget busting move based on the manager and CEO telling him that failure to do so will severely dent our promotion chances. Long term planning and changes to the structure at East Mains are definitely good ideas ....... but there will always be tough short term decisions to be made which will affect the clubs long term future. Failure to take the right decisions at those times can badly damage any long term goals, no matter how well planned they are.

Relegation is never a good thing ...... but failure to learn from not just the long term mistakes, but also the short term mistakes which got you there is unforgivable.

We shall see.

Would agree with a good deal of that, although we have more chance of seeing Daniel Defoe playing up front than Jermaine Defoe

[Dashing Bob S]

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I understand your point.

Personally, I still think relegation was an avoidable disaster, and will hurt us. We've missed a huge opportunity to cement our place at the top of Scottish football and will now be involved in a bun fight with Rangers and Hearts just to go up.

On the other hand, if we hadn't been relegated we'd still have Butcher in charge, and I'm glad that man and the decision-making that led to his appointment have now gone.

Yes, we missed a great chance to stay up, consolidate and dominate a potentially yo-yo-ing Hearts, who still face an uncertain future/financing etc. But we messed it badly and pushed ourselves back on the level playing field with them, through sheer incompetence.

However, it was probably the wake-up call that the club (ie: Petrie) needed, that we were going nowhere under the current regime (ie: Petrie) and that change was needed (ie: Petrie no longer running the club) with Leaann Dempster coming in.

It's never easy to say that 'relegation did us a power of good' because it was and is a disaster for a club like Hibs, but in the long run, we've been so entrenched in this culture of failure we probably needed a shock to the system to get it together.

[--------]

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Even if they had been retained if we had stayed up, if things were as bad as they appear to have been between the previous management team and the players then they would have been away after a couple of months into this season anyway.

Then we could have brought in the new management team with around six or seven months left of the season and we would still have been a Premiership club.

Now we're a Championship club in a league that's highly competitive and by no means guaranteed to be back up at the first attempt.

There is absolutely nothing positive that can be taken out of our relegation last season.

I have a feeling that B&M would have been told to mend their ways or leave, Trig.

Obscene verbal abuse of the paying customers (just to take an example at random) could arguably be considered a sacking offence - especially if a written warning had already been issued. LD doesn't appear to me to be the sort of CEO who would appreciate or tolerate some of the stuff that was going on last season.

I just wish some other idiot would give that pair a job so that we could get them off our books.

[over the line]

Well we can't change the past can we, so disaster or not relegation is well an trully behind us. I don't see it as a disaster anyway, just a challenge. It will be good to get a good string of wins and some positive momentum and we should be capable of that in this division. The players, manager, club and fans need to seize this fresh start opportunity and make sure we rebuild properly, with one eye on promotion and an eye on long term success. I like our signings so far and I think AS has a clear vision of what our playing style and future strategy for success is. Let's turn a negative into a positive, after all a negative ( - ) is just half a positive ( + ) anyway! (cheesey!). :D

[Phil D. Rolls]

I think it's a real worry if we don't compete throughout. Walk up money might dry up, and we have sold so few season tickets. People won't tolerate mid table form like they would in the top division. So relegation could also be the breaking of us.

[worcesterhibby]

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I think it's a real worry if we don't compete throughout. Walk up money might dry up, and we have sold so few season tickets. People won't tolerate mid table form like they would in the top division. So relegation could also be the breaking of us.

Are you vying for Doom and Gloomer of the month ?

[stewpot]

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Are you vying for Doom and Gloomer of the month ?

maybe he is but look at Leeds United a good few years ago, they were in free fall and look where they are now.

We have not shown in recent form that we will be anywhere near the top of this league. Obviously I hope we win or get through via the play off. If we end up mid table, how many years will we be there....

There is no point in saying that's no gonna happen, just look at last season.

[Phil D. Rolls]

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Are you vying for Doom and Gloomer of the month ?

Just trying to prepare myself for the worst.

[JHFC]

It's gave us an opportunity to rebuild our whole club from scratch. I said since day one that in the long term it could be the best thing that has happened to our club in a long time. Our club was rotten from top to bottom and nothing was going to change unless we got a really check. By getting relegated we have had that reality check and things are looking on the up for this club. Let's get behind the team this whole season! Winning the league should be our target. So I do agree with the OP 100%.

[tamig]

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maybe he is but look at Leeds United a good few years ago, they were in free fall and look where they are now.

We have not shown in recent form that we will be anywhere near the top of this league. Obviously I hope we win or get through via the play off. If we end up mid table, how many years will we be there....

There is no point in saying that's no gonna happen, just look at last season.

What recent form - this pre-season's or last season's? There has been huge change this summer so I don't think anyone can use last season's performances as as an indicator of how things will go this time.

[Steve20]

It's far too early to say. We've not played a competitive game since going down, so we can't say we've turned a corner cos we've beat Vale of Leithen and Stirling Albion. The signs coming out of Hibs are good but until they back it up with promotion, relegation will always be a negative.

[Scouse Hibee]

Every cloud has a silver lining...............................relegation isn't even a bronze lining, it's a disaster for Hibernian and one that may well take us several seasons to recover from if we ever do. It's a new dawn and I am behind the new manager 100% but I can't find any good in relegation what so ever.