(rumour) Butcher will be sacked

[California-Hibs]

I think we'll be making a huge mistake letting Butcher go. As mentioned, look at how Inverness played football the last 2-3 years, it was far from how described on here!

We can't afford to sack Butcher, by doing so we'll be taking away a massive chunk of our cash to use on players. We need stability and to give a manager a few years instead of comstantly changing!

Also, by sacking him it would severely hurt our perpetration for the new season, depending on how long it would then take to find a replacement.

Really hoping this isn't true and he stays. I don't care if I'm in the minority with my opinion.

[RIP Bestie]

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It doesn't matter that he can influence players to work hard, siege mentality, building a team for promotion.

His 'Style' of football is the reason Scotland haven't qualified for a major tournament since 98
Its the reason guys like Jim Goodwin and Ross Tokely get signed for clubs
Its the reason big lads are signed by Hutchy Vale at 13 instead of the more talented wee fella
Its the reason centre mids need neck surgery at the end of a season due to watching the ball bypass them.

Him and his dinosaur football can grab its drum and F*****g beat it. Its not the way football should be played now and this club won't get another penny from me if its continued to play like that. But its not about me, 18k of us shouldn't be put through it.

I wouldn't even mind us finishing 4th/5th next season if it meant we had any semblance of long term plan with youth development, and style of play beginning with the 5 year olds. It is totally wrong that the under 18s and under 21's can be asked to play fluid, passing football then when they reach the first team Butcher says "right lads, get stuck right in". Its the most depressing thing in football for me.

I understand when there are financial constraints.
Celtic physically can't beat a Barcelona playing flowing football cause they don't have the same standard of player. So they tweak their strengths and battle for a win. Same with Scotland against a team like France.

However there is no excuse for not even attempting flowing football when you are playing absolutely diddies in a pennyless league. Managers that come out with "its only results that matter" e.g. Allardyce are just interesting in saving their own skin and showing blatant disrespect to fans.

Butcher and managers of his ilk, OUT.

Ahh and breath...

I agree wholeheartedly with most of this.
firstly I would say that it is vitally important for us as a club to finish in the top three next season to at least give us a chance of promotion to the premiership.
i think the problem with Scottish Football is very deep rooted.
Everyone seems to have gone into Hedgehog mode and we seem to have accepted that we are third rate and have adopted a very defensive and gutless stance.
You are 100% correct in your assessment of some of the players who are making careers out of the game when in essence if truth be told they couldn't kick snow of a dyke. But that is nothing new as the likes of Tom Forsyth, Peter Grant and Doug Rougvie made very good careers out of their respective clubs and enjoyed a fair degree of success. Some Hibs supporters would rather see a McPake than a Thomson and that for me says a lot of what our expectation of the beautiful game has come down to in Scotland.
This is why we are seeing the likes of Inverness coming to the fore in Scottish Football. They have adapted to this better than we have. Their whole foundation was built on the big guys, we have never been able to handle that. Our record against them has been appalling. Since then they have adapted their style slightly but I have never thought that they were all that great to watch. I know a lot on here will disagree with that but that's maybe down to how low our expectations have become.
Look at Celtic, they are taking the piss. They are going out and buying all these unknown players on the back of promising them exposure at Champions League level with the sole intention of selling them on to the highest bidder. It's a great business model for them but it's not doing much for the game as a whole here. When was the last time Celtic paid a fee to a Scottish club for a player? In fact outwith celtic and Wanyama, when was the last big transfer from a Scottish club?
We as a nation have always had to play the underdog and fight our corner, but we have always managed to produce a gem or two. There is nobody in Scottish Football who is a native that I have been excited about for a number of years, the ones I have been have probably pished their own careers away.x
You look at the boy Mackay-Stevens, who wasn't impressed with him when he broke into the Dundee United team? How exciting would it have been to watch a team that could get the ball out to him so that he could produce some magic and create chances or score goals? That doesn't happen here we don't adapt to good players, good players have to adapt to the football we play here. He should have been a stand out player in our League, now he's just another statistic.
there are times when it is more important to get the result in football, unfortunately it is more the norm here and if truth be told I would reluctantly accept 36 one nil victories next season.

[Cameron1875]

Inverness CT were a little like Hibs Fenlon 2012-13 team. You might laugh but hear me out!

They had a strong bunch of pro's with a few young pacy lads then a superstar leading the line. Meekings and Warren were better than Hanlon and Mcpake.
Doran was better than Harris and Shinnie was better than Wotherspoon.

Mckay was their Griffiths and put away the goals. The lads they had in midfield like Draper, Tudor Jones, Foran are much of a muchness with Thomson, inform Deegan and Claros imo.

[RIP Bestie]

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Inverness CT were a little like Hibs Fenlon 2012-13 team. You might laugh but hear me out!

They had a strong bunch of pro's with a few young pacy lads then a superstar leading the line. Meekings and Warren were better than Hanlon and Mcpake.
Doran was better than Harris and Shinnie was better than Wotherspoon.

Mckay was their Griffiths and put away the goals. The lads they had in midfield like Draper, Tudor Jones, Foran are much of a muchness with Thomson, inform Deegan and Claros imo.

The players you mention for the probably all knew their jobs. And were probably played to their strengths, can we seriously say that the Hibs players you have mentioned could feel the same way?

[Cameron1875]

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The players you mention for the probably all knew their jobs. And were probably played to their strengths, can we seriously say that the Hibs players you have mentioned could feel the same way?

Honestly just think the players mentioned were better players than ours mate. And fairplay to Marsella for finding these lads but Hibs are in a much worse state than Caley were when they went down.

Plus imagine the media pressure on our team if we lost 3 of our first 5 next season. The Shinnies just won't get 4 seasons to develop like they did up there!

[RIP Bestie]

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Honestly just think the players mentioned were better players than ours mate. And fairplay to Marsella for finding these lads but Hibs are in a much worse state than Caley were when they went down.

Plus imagine the media pressure on our team if we lost 3 of our first 5 next season. The Shinnies just won't get 4 seasons to develop like they did up there!

I agree, that's why there is no comparison with the ICT job and the Hibs job. Butcher may be able to do well up there where the expectation is a lot less, with us he is out of his league

[Cameron1875]

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[/B]I agree, that's why there is no comparison with the ICT job and the Hibs job. Butcher may be able to do well up there where the expectation is a lot less, with us he is out of his league

Literally.

[Beefster]

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Brave man because when Friday comes and it's not happened - you're out of here.

If it does I will apologise.

If you binned everyone who posts rumours and gets them wrong, it would be scoops and Brooster left.

[NOLA]

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I think we'll be making a huge mistake letting Butcher go. As mentioned, look at how Inverness played football the last 2-3 years, it was far from how described on here!

We can't afford to sack Butcher, by doing so we'll be taking away a massive chunk of our cash to use on players. We need stability and to give a manager a few years instead of comstantly changing!

Also, by sacking him it would severely hurt our perpetration for the new season, depending on how long it would then take to find a replacement.

Really hoping this isn't true and he stays. I don't care if I'm in the minority with my opinion.

have to agree with all that

[Speedway]

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If you binned everyone who posts rumours and gets them wrong, it would be scoops and Brooster left.

And Big-Mo

[Lester B]

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What specifically did TB do to take away their ability to control and pass a ball?

Specifically? No idea. But as I keep saying here, there and everywhere, he made a mediocre team into a truly appalling one. That is objectively observable. I cannot see how anyone can keep defending that man.

[Lester B]

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I just think there is so much wrong with the club that it's not all down to him,,, he was an inspiration on the pitch for England and his clubs,,therefore I believe that he should be able to communicate this as a manager.

We have all seen under performing managers and often go in to better things,, if the club was in good shape I'm sure he would be able to improve the team.

Certainly he should be able to motivate and inspire. He clearly can't.

My old man had a fascinating theory that managers were often very different beasts in that role than they were as players. Tony M was a meat and potatoes centre half but his teams played purist, passing football. Butcher was an inspirational figure as a player. From the touchline he huffs, puffs and shouts but as far as I can make out he couldn't motivate a bulimic to have a sandwich

[Nailrod]

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Specifically? No idea. But as I keep saying here, there and everywhere, he made a mediocre team into a truly appalling one. That is objectively observable. I cannot see how anyone can keep defending that man.

The worrying thought is that clearly Butcher had no idea what he was doing either. Otherwise he would have stopped doing it, and done something different.

[The_Horde]

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[/B]I agree, that's why there is no comparison with the ICT job and the Hibs job. Butcher may be able to do well up there where the expectation is a lot less, with us he is out of his league

Which is exactly what's wrong with hibs.

What gives us the divine right to be better than Inverness, St Johnstone, Motherwell etc?

Binning managers willy nilly has got us in this mess. Players think "ah wait I don't like this manager, think I'll just down tools and get him sacked". The manager has to be much bigger than the players but at the moment the players rule the roost. The only way to change this is to stick by our manager.

[Lester B]

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Which is exactly what's wrong with hibs.

What gives us the divine right to be better than Inverness, St Johnstone, Motherwell etc?

Binning managers willy nilly has got us in this mess. Players think "ah wait I don't like this manager, think I'll just down tools and get him sacked". The manager has to be much bigger than the players but at the moment the players rule the roost. The only way to change this is to stick by our manager.

No. The players rule the roost? Really? Maybe that was an issue under JC but that was 7 years ago.

Some of Butcher's treatment of the players has been abysmal.

[weonlywon6-2]

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Honestly just think the players mentioned were better players than ours mate. And fairplay to Marsella for finding these lads but Hibs are in a much worse state than Caley were when they went down.

Plus imagine the media pressure on our team if we lost 3 of our first 5 next season. The Shinnies just won't get 4 seasons to develop like they did up there!

The one big difference between hibs and inverness is the size of the support and the expectations.butcher was not facing thousands of fans clambering for his head when he took caley down,they probably dont expect to much there ,at hibs very different story.
The pressure now on but her to turn things around is huge ,far more than anything he experienced at caley

[The_Horde]

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No. The players rule the roost? Really? Maybe that was an issue under JC but that was 7 years ago.

Some of Butcher's treatment of the players has been abysmal.

You can't tell me they don't?

They stopped listening to Pat so he resigned. Then big bad Butcher told one or two they weren't in his plans and yet again they downed tools. Almost going through 2 managers in one season.

[MrRobot]

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No. The players rule the roost? Really? Maybe that was an issue under JC but that was 7 years ago.

Some of Butcher's treatment of the players has been abysmal.

What is it he's done likes? Other than telling them they were leaving.

[Lester B]

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You can't tell me they don't?

They stopped listening to Pat so he resigned. Then big bad Butcher told one or two they weren't in his plans and yet again they downed tools. Almost going through 2 managers in one season.

I can tell you that they don't. I am telling you that they don't. I need evidence that they do. Do you have it? They stopped listening to Pat so he resigned? That simple was it?

[lord bunberry]

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Which is exactly what's wrong with hibs.

What gives us the divine right to be better than Inverness, St Johnstone, Motherwell etc?

Binning managers willy nilly has got us in this mess. Players think "ah wait I don't like this manager, think I'll just down tools and get him sacked". The manager has to be much bigger than the players but at the moment the players rule the roost. The only way to change this is to stick by our manager.

People said we've got to give the manager more time when calderwood was the manager, they were wrong and imo giving butcher more time is also wrong. We can't keep flogging a dead horse, the man has failed and should pay the price for his failure.

[ehf]

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People said we've got to give the manager more time when calderwood was the manager, they were wrong and imo giving butcher more time is also wrong. We can't keep flogging a dead horse, the man has failed and should pay the price for his failure.

Any other club, he and his nutjob sidekick would have been huckled off the premises within minutes of Cummings missing his penalty.

The yams and St Mirren have just sacked better managers, FFS.

[The_Horde]

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I can tell you that they don't. I am telling you that they don't. I need evidence that they do. Do you have it? They stopped listening to Pat so he resigned? That simple was it?

Pat said it himself.

[Lester B]

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Pat said it himself.

Whiich makes it totally true then? Right.

[The_Horde]

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People said we've got to give the manager more time when calderwood was the manager, they were wrong and imo giving butcher more time is also wrong. We can't keep flogging a dead horse, the man has failed and should pay the price for his failure.

And that's fair enough. Calderwood, Fenlon, Yogi etc all had long enough to build their squads and they were failing (you could argue that RP could've allowed them more room to work but that's for another thread)

Butcher has been working with a bunch of no hopers for more than half a season. A team that didn't even look like scoring when he came in. We played hearts twice with Pat and they could've played for 990 minutes and not scored.

We were toiling.

Butcher came in and got us a few wins but then the players resorted back to type.

Butcher needs time to get things his way.

[The_Horde]

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Whiich makes it totally true then? Right.

What's the truth then?

I expect a factual answer with a good source referenced to back it up.

[Winston Ingram]

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Sorry i've added a wee extra bit in after an edit. It looks like we are gonna have to agree to disagree bud.

But I do think Liam Craig will prove people wrong at another Scottish Premiership club. And you can quote me on that

Quote me on that as well. As soon as he returns to the position he played when we decided to sign him and add a manager that doesn't tell him he's *****e on a regular basis and he'll quickly return to his best.

[Speedway]

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And that's fair enough. Calderwood, Fenlon, Yogi etc all had long enough to build their squads and they were failing (you could argue that RP could've allowed them more room to work but that's for another thread)

Butcher has been working with a bunch of no hopers for more than half a season. A team that didn't even look like scoring when he came in. We played hearts twice with Pat and they could've played for 990 minutes and not scored.

We were toiling.

Butcher came in and got us a few wins but then the players resorted back to type.

Butcher needs time to get things his way.

Butcher needs a six year contract.

Carol Thatcher needs to be the new Chairman

We need to re-name the ground the 'Mercer Stadium' as it was him that got Hibbys off their ***** in the 90s and got STF in. We owe him all of our hearts for that.

Then we bring in Billy Brown because we've been strugglin' and no-one understands that more than him.

Skacel should be our new attacking coach, he'd give us the advantage in the championship by a nose.

THEN we're ready for the new season.

[Peevemor]

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And that's fair enough. Calderwood, Fenlon, Yogi etc all had long enough to build their squads and they were failing (you could argue that RP could've allowed them more room to work but that's for another thread)

Butcher has been working with a bunch of no hopers for more than half a season. A team that didn't even look like scoring when he came in. We played hearts twice with Pat and they could've played for 990 minutes and not scored.

We were toiling.

Butcher came in and got us a few wins but then the players resorted back to type.

Butcher needs time to get things his way.

I agree with the bit in bold but part of me also wants to bin him.

I'm totally scunnered!

[chrisski33]

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No. The players rule the roost? Really? Maybe that was an issue under JC but that was 7 years ago.

Some of Butcher's treatment of the players has been abysmal.

How about looking at how the players have treated this club and us fans! Ffs poor little players who were told they werent in hibs plans. Sick of this lets feel sorry for how the players have been treated chat. The players are part of how we got relegated!

[lord bunberry]

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And that's fair enough. Calderwood, Fenlon, Yogi etc all had long enough to build their squads and they were failing (you could argue that RP could've allowed them more room to work but that's for another thread)

Butcher has been working with a bunch of no hopers for more than half a season. A team that didn't even look like scoring when he came in. We played hearts twice with Pat and they could've played for 990 minutes and not scored.

We were toiling.

Butcher came in and got us a few wins but then the players resorted back to type.

Butcher needs time to get things his way.

We were rubbish to watch when Butcher arrived but we were still doing enoug to pick up wins here and there. After initially looking like he was turning things round he made us rubbish to watch again, without being able to pick up results. 1 win after the new year derby is a shocking record, to lose over 2 legs to Hamilton is even worse.
I suspect he is going to be given the chance to make up for the mess he's created and obviously I hope he does get us promoted, but I will always be of the opinion that getting us relegated is a sackable offence.