Butcher and His JOB

[thefifer1959]

Come on my fellow Brother and sisters,

This crap about Butcher should go if this or that happens. what the heck is this all about. Have we lost sight of who's team this really Is.

Fenlon!! was the one who brought this BUNCH OF NO-HOPPERS to HIB'S Not Butcher. so come on Give the man a decent run for his money and our sanity. he has always said that come summer new faces will be coming in and that Christmas time was no time for panic buy's.

November to this day is not long enough for us to Judge, we are a big club but that doesn't give us the right to be one of the best over night, for to long now the board have sacked Managers for not getting results, when what we should be doing is giving he manager a fair crack at the Job and allow them to show what they can do.

Two more seasons for Butcher enough time for him to get results and give us back our pride.

LONG GONE ARE THE TURNBULL YEARS.

[Beefster]

Get ready...

[MWHIBBIES]

They weren't rubbish when Fenlon was here though. Craig, Nelson, Harris, Collins and McGivern were all better players under Fenlon.

[madhatter]

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They weren't rubbish when Fenlon was here though. Craig, Nelson, Harris, Collins and McGivern were all better players under Fenlon.

Under your reasoning, would Messi and Ronaldo be relegation candidates under a different manager? Good players are good players regardless of who their manager is. Never does a good player go from an absolute Hero to a Zero because one person changes. Put it this way, why does Craig now regularly try a hooked volley pass (without looking)? Because sadly, they are bottle merchants. I have seen Stanton and KT keep the ball in tight situations and keep the ball and make space and create. Every single other seems to have **** their pants and wants to offload the ball pronto.

McGivern has been useless at crossing and grossly unable to get back (due to fitness and pace) even whilst Fenlon was here. The only difference is Fenlon told him to stay within his own half and never cross. "Get it to Griffiths" was Fenlons motto and rightly so. Harris is just back from a horrendously long injury layoff so I can't imagine what you are basing this on?

Nelson and Collins. Where do I begin? Nelson played better when Hanlon was in the team because I cannot stress how important Hanlon is for us. People slate him but he is actually not an awful defender and can pass! Nelson has regularly kicked the ball out of play all season as far as I can recall. I guess we were playing more side-ways passing under Fenlon though...Collins, has never looked a better player, he has been consistently average. Huge workrate but no peaks or troughs in performances really - indifferent.

What people are also forgetting is that Butcher has had to put up with one of the worst injury records the club has suffered for a few years. Some of our crucial players have been injured at the wrong times.

[FitbaFolkKen]

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Good players are good players regardless of who their manager is.

Good managers get the best out of what is available to them. Your reasoning here is totally flawed as it implies that the players will always perform to their level regardless of who is in charge. Why even have a manager?

He is doing a bad job.

[madhatter]

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Good managers get the best out of what is available to them. Your reasoning here is totally flawed as it implies that the players will always perform to their level regardless of who is in charge. Why even have a manager?

He is doing a bad job.

No, you have grossly misunderstood what I stated. Are you saying that under a different manager Ronaldo would be tripping over his laces and looking like a right idiot? No, he wouldn't. He may play better, he may play worse depending on the style that the manager deploys. One things for sure though is if TB arranged for Ronaldo or Messi to play for us in the playoffs they would not, even under him, look like they should be amateur footballers...

Sadly, like many Hibs fans, you are on a witch hunt (for understandable reasons) but to defend these players and attack the manager is futile and stupid. We sack another manager forking out compensation, we keep these wasters and eventually they'll walk out for free to other clubs and play well for whatever manager is there. Then we'll get a new manager, he'll bring in his own players (wasting money) and we wake up put our foot in the same puddle and realise it is Groundhog day.

Rankin being an example as he has played well for many managers but just not at Hibs. Doyle is doing better down south than he did for us at Hibs etc. Butcher has done a bad job but to suggest a manager is responsible for "professional" footballers being professional is flawed. It is a job. Could you blame your manager if you were useless? No. So why can footballers who earn 1k+ a week minimum? Ridiculous.

As far as I can see, Butcher has told the players to wipe their own ****** but most seem to have enjoyed getting the Andrex supplied for them...I sense a John Collins (esque) type situation here.

[eastterrace]

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Good managers get the best out of what is available to them. Your reasoning here is totally flawed as it implies that the players will always perform to their level regardless of who is in charge. Why even have a manager?

He is doing a bad job.

maybe he is getting the best out of them due to them being pish.

[judas]

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Under your reasoning, would Messi and Ronaldo be relegation candidates under a different manager? Good players are good players regardless of who their manager is. Never does a good player go from an absolute Hero to a Zero because one person changes. Put it this way, why does Craig now regularly try a hooked volley pass (without looking)? Because sadly, they are bottle merchants. I have seen Stanton and KT keep the ball in tight situations and keep the ball and make space and create. Every single other seems to have **** their pants and wants to offload the ball pronto.

McGivern has been useless at crossing and grossly unable to get back (due to fitness and pace) even whilst Fenlon was here. The only difference is Fenlon told him to stay within his own half and never cross. "Get it to Griffiths" was Fenlons motto and rightly so. Harris is just back from a horrendously long injury layoff so I can't imagine what you are basing this on?

Nelson and Collins. Where do I begin? Nelson played better when Hanlon was in the team because I cannot stress how important Hanlon is for us. People slate him but he is actually not an awful defender and can pass! Nelson has regularly kicked the ball out of play all season as far as I can recall. I guess we were playing more side-ways passing under Fenlon though...Collins, has never looked a better player, he has been consistently average. Huge workrate but no peaks or troughs in performances really - indifferent.

What people are also forgetting is that Butcher has had to put up with one of the worst injury records the club has suffered for a few years. Some of our crucial players have been injured at the wrong times.

The truest post of the week.

[rcarter1]

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They weren't rubbish when Fenlon was here though. Craig, Nelson, Harris, Collins and McGivern were all better players under Fenlon.

Craig - lots of detractors while he was playing under Fenlon.
Nelson - people were moaning how poor his distribution was from the get go.
Harris - injured mostly and slowly returning, so can't compare.
Collins - always praised for effort, but was under pressure before Butcher came in
McGivern - this guy has been pretty inept all season.

Before Fenlon left we were a football team going absolutely nowhere. We were in the top 6 but had just been beaten by Hearts, and outplayed by Aberdeen. It was clear to many that this team was not a top6 team. Inverness, Motherwell, Aberdeen, and Dundee Utd were all looking in better shape than us under Fenlon. Butcher managed a brief partial revival, before killing the team spirt with his comments about their quality etc.

Butcher has mismanaged the situation, but under no circumstances were the players good enough under Fenlon.

[21.05.2016]

I agree, far too early IMO to be calling for Butcher to go. He is still working with a bunch of gutless nobodies that Fenlon cobbled together. He didn't do much in the January window, he obviously thought he had enough in the team to see out the season and then the work would start in the summer for the new season (TBF he like everybody else could never have predicted how heavily we would spiral).

He hasn't covered himself in glory with some of his substitutions but I will reserve my judgment on him until after he has had time and the chance to clear out Fenlons utter garbage of a team and build HIS squad.

He has a better chance of turning things around if we give him a bit of support. I understand how frustrated we all are and we have every right to be but I think turning on the manager and wanting him to leave already is a bit ridiculous IMO.

[madhatter]

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Come on my fellow Brother and sisters,

This crap about Butcher should go if this or that happens. what the heck is this all about. Have we lost sight of who's team this really Is.

Fenlon!! was the one who brought this BUNCH OF NO-HOPPERS to HIB'S Not Butcher. so come on Give the man a decent run for his money and our sanity. he has always said that come summer new faces will be coming in and that Christmas time was no time for panic buy's.

November to this day is not long enough for us to Judge, we are a big club but that doesn't give us the right to be one of the best over night, for to long now the board have sacked Managers for not getting results, when what we should be doing is giving he manager a fair crack at the Job and allow them to show what they can do.

Two more seasons for Butcher enough time for him to get results and give us back our pride.

LONG GONE ARE THE TURNBULL YEARS.

Yes, lets give the guy a chance. He has already stated he brought in loans over the X-mas break because he had players lined up for the summer. He has once again stated that we just need to stay up and there are players that will come. I'd rather bring in some quality than make a rush signing - people are saying "Doherty" and "Soares" had an affect at Hibs? Haha yeah, both by being a poor standard of player. Doherty couldn't have given 2 tosses about our thrashing in the SC Final and I recall him making a statement on his Twitter account saying "Another day tomorrow to get the rest of my shopping done!" after the derby (probably got some shopping done in Glasgow whilst through). He clearly viewed his time up at Hibs as a bit of a holiday. Soares flattered to deceive and did pretty much nothing. O'Donovan scored 1 goal in 14 games and is proclaimed to have had a bigger effect than what we have. Eh, Watmore is better than all 3 of these but has, sadly, not been given any protection by the refs. Clearly chopped down in Raith games and against Killie. There is an intent to injure as well.

This "sack the manager" trash has to stop. Terry is looking visibly ill and frustrated. I'd take a manager who appears to care, I'd take an assistant that rants back at the abusive fans any day. Better that than having solemn wasters who couldn't give a toss (aka Calderwood).

This is Fenlon and Calderwoods fault. Calderwood destroyed moral at the club to almost disastrous levels, and was smug and aloof about it. Fenlon tried to recover some respect and did that. However, we must look forward and move forward.

WE NEED TO STOP THINKING ABOUT BYGONE DAYS!

[Centre Hawf]

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Yes, lets give the guy a chance. He has already stated he brought in loans over the X-mas break because he had players lined up for the summer. He has once again stated that we just need to stay up and there are players that will come. I'd rather bring in some quality than make a rush signing - people are saying "Doherty" and "Soares" had an affect at Hibs? Haha yeah, both by being a poor standard of player. Doherty couldn't have given 2 tosses about our thrashing in the SC Final and I recall him making a statement on his Twitter account saying "Another day tomorrow to get the rest of my shopping done!" after the derby (probably got some shopping done in Glasgow whilst through). He clearly viewed his time up at Hibs as a bit of a holiday. Soares flattered to deceive and did pretty much nothing. O'Donovan scored 1 goal in 14 games and is proclaimed to have had a bigger effect than what we have. Eh, Watmore is better than all 3 of these but has, sadly, not been given any protection by the refs. Clearly chopped down in Raith games and against Killie. There is an intent to injure as well.

This "sack the manager" trash has to stop. Terry is looking visibly ill and frustrated. I'd take a manager who appears to care, I'd take an assistant that rants back at the abusive fans any day. Better that than having solemn wasters who couldn't give a toss (aka Calderwood).

This is Fenlon and Calderwoods fault. Calderwood destroyed moral at the club to almost disastrous levels, and was smug and aloof about it. Fenlon tried to recover some respect and did that. However, we must look forward and move forward.

WE NEED TO STOP THINKING ABOUT BYGONE DAYS!

Stop thinking about bygone days but 99 percent of this post is about how keek previous players and managers were? If were forgetting bygone days then you're asking us to judge the situation as it is in its present condition. Which is utter terrible.

For what its worth Fenlons time at Hibs was coming to an end. But none of this is on him. This is Butchers mess and his alone.

[madhatter]

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Stop thinking about bygone days but 99 percent of this post is about how keek previous players and managers were? If were forgetting bygone days then you're asking us to judge the situation as it is in its present condition. Which is utter terrible.

For what its worth Fenlons time at Hibs was coming to an end. But none of this is on him. This is Butchers mess and his alone.

Yes. I'm pointing out that people keep harping on about how good Fenlon was and we were in 5th, blah blah blah. They seem to have forgotten the bad times and/or are suppressing them. Things were equally poor then and we sacked managers. Fenlon got 2 years. People want Butcher out after 7 months without a summer transfer window, it is just ludicrous. His mess alone? I've never heard so much nonsense, really haven't. He has 3 players, out of a large squad, who he actually brought in. None of it is on Fenlon...haha when does he get knighted?

[FitbaFolkKen]

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Yes. I'm pointing out that people keep harping on about how good Fenlon was and we were in 5th, blah blah blah. They seem to have forgotten the bad times and/or are suppressing them. Things were equally poor then and we sacked managers. Fenlon got 2 years. People want Butcher out after 7 months without a summer transfer window, it is just ludicrous. His mess alone? I've never heard so much nonsense, really haven't. He has 3 players, out of a large squad, who he actually brought in. None of it is on Fenlon...haha when does he get knighted?

No-one has forgotten the bad times, but just because we were bad before doesn't make this ok. We have completely capitulated and I don't see why anyone would want to trust him with building our team for next season. He has absolutely demolished a boring, average SPFL team and turned them into the worst team in the league by a distance.

[madhatter]

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No-one has forgotten the bad times, but just because we were bad before doesn't make this ok. We have completely capitulated and I don't see why anyone would want to trust him with building our team for next season. He has absolutely demolished a boring, average SPFL team and turned them into the worst team in the league by a distance.

Like the people who say "you want protest, you want Petrie out, ok then - what is your plan, what is your plan B, eh?". You want to protest, you want Butcher out, ok then - what is your plan, what is your plan B, eh? Who would you trust to build a team? At the moment, your choices are: "a kid that knows how to put lego together", "gary locke", "a blind man", "danny lennon", "a local garage owner", "a local builder", "terry butcher"...
I can't help but think, that from the above, for many, our survey will say "a kid that knows how to put lego together"...

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He has absolutely demolished a boring, average SPFL team and turned them into the worst team in the league by a distance.

Some part of me hopes he absolutely demolishes this team further. They have bored me for £22 a week for 2+ years. They have constantly underachieved for years upon years and yet familiars stay around, festering being the suitable word. I might add that the spectacular failures have come on the big stage as well - embarrassment after embarrassment. Some would also argue that if Hibs are a boring, average SPFL team then what the hell is the point?

[WestStandMoaner]

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Come on my fellow Brother and sisters,

This crap about Butcher should go if this or that happens. what the heck is this all about. Have we lost sight of who's team this really Is.

Fenlon!! was the one who brought this BUNCH OF NO-HOPPERS to HIB'S Not Butcher. so come on Give the man a decent run for his money and our sanity. he has always said that come summer new faces will be coming in and that Christmas time was no time for panic buy's.

November to this day is not long enough for us to Judge, we are a big club but that doesn't give us the right to be one of the best over night, for to long now the board have sacked Managers for not getting results, when what we should be doing is giving he manager a fair crack at the Job and allow them to show what they can do.

Two more seasons for Butcher enough time for him to get results and give us back our pride.

LONG GONE ARE THE TURNBULL YEARS.

Butcher has to go, he has managed to oversee the biggest collapse of Hibs team that I can recall

[Jim44]

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Come on my fellow Brother and sisters,

This crap about Butcher should go if this or that happens. what the heck is this all about. Have we lost sight of who's team this really Is.

Fenlon!! was the one who brought this BUNCH OF NO-HOPPERS to HIB'S Not Butcher. so come on Give the man a decent run for his money and our sanity. he has always said that come summer new faces will be coming in and that Christmas time was no time for panic buy's.

November to this day is not long enough for us to Judge, we are a big club but that doesn't give us the right to be one of the best over night, for to long now the board have sacked Managers for not getting results, when what we should be doing is giving he manager a fair crack at the Job and allow them to show what they can do.

Two more seasons for Butcher enough time for him to get results and give us back our pride.

LONG GONE ARE THE TURNBULL YEARS.

Your choice of language to describe the strong desire to see the back of Butcher is more suited to his performance and the way he has dragged us to the point of hopelessness. Even a blindfolded monkey would have 'lucked' us to a few more results than he has. If he somehow flukes a couple of performances and keeps us up, I will reluctantly agree that he should get some time to show his worth. If we go down, I think his position would be untenable. Personally I hope he goes.

[ionahibby]

This blaming Fenlon for all our problems is becoming pretty boring now.

[madhatter]

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This blaming Fenlon for all our problems is becoming pretty boring now.

Who is blaming Fenlon? - in a positive thread about backing Butcher I've seen nothing but "get him out". I've stated facts about the players Fenlon brought in and sympathised with him for being the guy that came in after Calderwood. How about being bored out our minds about hearing about previous managers and how "we were in 5th", and how the current manager needs sacked. This all originating in largely a thread seeming to want to spread some support for Butcher - so how about all this being "pretty boring now"? In fact, "sack the manager" was "pretty boring" about 10 years ago but it's still trending amongst most fans clearly.

I also have not seen 1 post in this thread saying Fenlon is responsible for "all our problems". Seems to be a large proportion of people struggling to comprehend posts in all honesty. And in doing so try to breed negativity in a thread about supporting the current manager. Once again, no one, I have read on this thread, has said "Fenlon is to blame for all of this". I have seen many upon many threads and posts about "Fenlon had us in 5th and SC Finals and" blah blah blah. I have also seen a post on here that clearly states "This is Butchers mess and his alone.". You fed up of these comments as well, or do managers only get sympathy when they are sacked or walk away?

[persevere1875]

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This blaming Fenlon for all our problems is becoming pretty boring now.

Theirs only one person to blame for the demise of Hibs this season and thats who ever was responsible for not getting Griffiths and worse than that not getting in a competent replacement, IMHO Hibs are by no way the worst team in the SPL, Hibs are suffering because in 38 games we've scored just 31 goals pure and simple, the stats dont lie, if you dont score you can have all the possesion or build up play in the world it matters not a jot if they score the one chance and you squander all yours end of.

[lyonhibs]

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Come on my fellow Brother and sisters,

This crap about Butcher should go if this or that happens. what the heck is this all about. Have we lost sight of who's team this really Is.

Fenlon!! was the one who brought this BUNCH OF NO-HOPPERS to HIB'S Not Butcher. so come on Give the man a decent run for his money and our sanity. he has always said that come summer new faces will be coming in and that Christmas time was no time for panic buy's.

November to this day is not long enough for us to Judge, we are a big club but that doesn't give us the right to be one of the best over night, for to long now the board have sacked Managers for not getting results, when what we should be doing is giving he manager a fair crack at the Job and allow them to show what they can do.

Two more seasons for Butcher enough time for him to get results and give us back our pride.

LONG GONE ARE THE TURNBULL YEARS.

And if he relegates us??

Never mind the Turnbull era, I'm borderline yearning for the Blobby Williamson era!!

[madhatter]

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And if he relegates us??

Never mind the Turnbull era, I'm borderline yearning for the Blobby Williamson era!!

If the players relegate us, you mean. They've been here all season. And just incase people have forgotten. Record up until Fenlon left which if these superstars had won every game they could have accumulated 42 points up until end of November alone (Fenlon leaving). Lets have a look why don't we:

L, L, D, W, D, W, W, L, W, D, L, L, L, D = 16 points in 14 games I make it. Hardly terrific is it?

Managers don't relegate teams. Players do. Sooner people realise that the better.

[Stevie Reid]

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If the players relegate us, you mean. They've been here all season. And just incase people have forgotten. Record up until Fenlon left which if these superstars had won every game they could have accumulated 42 points up until end of November alone (Fenlon leaving). Lets have a look why don't we:

L, L, D, W, D, W, W, L, W, D, L, L, L, D = 16 points in 14 games I make it. Hardly terrific is it?

Managers don't relegate teams. Players do. Sooner people realise that the better.

We had 15 points from 11 games when Fenlon left - a point per game average that would equate to 52 points over 38 games - we ended up with 35 points.

In every post I've made about Fenlon since he left I've said his time was up, but that doesn't change the fact that Butcher has unfortunately been an horrendous appointment.

Fenlon did much better with the players we had. Butcher was brought in to do better with what was there, then take us further. He has done much, much worse, and we have gone backwards at a startling rate - possibly as far backwards as it's possible to go, right into the Championship.

Fenlon is not to blame for where we are now.

[Captain Trips]

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We had 15 points from 11 games when Fenlon left - a point per game average that would equate to 52 points over 38 games - we ended up with 35 points.

In every post I've made about Fenlon since he left I've said his time was up, but that doesn't change the fact that Butcher has unfortunately been an horrendous appointment.

Fenlon did much better with the players we had. Butcher was brought in to do better with what was there, then take us further. He has done much, much worse, and we have gone backwards at a startling rate - possibly as far backwards as it's possible to go, right into the Championship.

Fenlon is not to blame for where we are now.

Good post there Steve.

[Hibbyradge]

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Managers don't relegate teams. Players do. Sooner people realise that the better.

What if the manager is demotivating the players by bullying them?

[madhatter]

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What if the manager is demotivating the players by bullying them?

Have they reported it to the teacher? In all seriousness, what do you think Alex Ferguson did? Was that bullying or motivating? When I played for a local team when I was younger, you could say I got "bullied" because of where I was from and how I spoke. You could say, I also managed to win the ball several times with crunching tackles during any practice matches we had. I also made it my duty to take the **** out of the bullies by nutmegging them and dribbling... I was a young lad and responded in this way. What way do men respond in?

[SMAXXA]

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Have they reported it to the teacher? In all seriousness, what do you think Alex Ferguson did? Was that bullying or motivating? When I played for a local team when I was younger, you could say I got "bullied" because of where I was from and how I spoke. You could say, I also managed to win the ball several times with crunching tackles during any practice matches we had. I also made it my duty to take the **** out of the bullies by nutmegging them and dribbling... I was a young lad and responded in this way. What way do men respond in?

I know of one player who's spoke to the PFA so teacher as such.

[Lester B]

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Have they reported it to the teacher? In all seriousness, what do you think Alex Ferguson did? Was that bullying or motivating? When I played for a local team when I was younger, you could say I got "bullied" because of where I was from and how I spoke. You could say, I also managed to win the ball several times with crunching tackles during any practice matches we had. I also made it my duty to take the **** out of the bullies by nutmegging them and dribbling... I was a young lad and responded in this way. What way do men respond in?

I'm sorry that is total and utter guff. People can be and are bullied in all walks of working life. There is no 'type' of person who is bullied. Bullying and harassment in the workplace is something I deal with in my day job. You want to come to work with me one day and tell a big guy over six foot tall who can't sleep and is crying his eyes out that his manager is motivating him not bullying him and he's not behaving like a man?? Sorry I am side tracking the debate here but this kind of macho nonsense sickens me.

[The_Todd]

I don't think hopping is going to solve anything.

[coldingham hibs]

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Come on my fellow Brother and sisters,

This crap about Butcher should go if this or that happens. what the heck is this all about. Have we lost sight of who's team this really Is.

Fenlon!! was the one who brought this BUNCH OF NO-HOPPERS to HIB'S Not Butcher. so come on Give the man a decent run for his money and our sanity. he has always said that come summer new faces will be coming in and that Christmas time was no time for panic buy's.

November to this day is not long enough for us to Judge, we are a big club but that doesn't give us the right to be one of the best over night, for to long now the board have sacked Managers for not getting results, when what we should be doing is giving he manager a fair crack at the Job and allow them to show what they can do.

Two more seasons for Butcher enough time for him to get results and give us back our pride.

LONG GONE ARE THE TURNBULL YEARS.

Who was it that brought in Boeteng, Watmore & Haynes (sorry if spelt wrong). These players have contributed nothing, can't blame Fenlon for them.