Mind-numblingly stupid tactics

[RIP]

• One striker isolated up front
• No-one behind him mopping up second balls
• Same problem with Heff up there as well
• Strikers smaller and lighter than opposition centre halves
• Aimless crosses from Craig and McGivern. Lazy, floaty crosses to no-one in particular
• Forster and Nelson not playing through midfield, similar aimless crosses in direction of strikers
• Giving ball away every time with hoofball, losing position inviting opposition to attack
• Nobody prepared to go forward when 40 yards out, switch to wings the soft option
• No-one attacking the byline to cut crosses back to strikers
• Wee men Harris, Whatmore getting kicked for fun. Should drive into box to shoot or penalty
• No command of centre circle, often their four to our two
• Only two strikers (max) in box facing up to six defenders
• Shots from too far out, very few if any on target
• Sometimes try different tactics but when we lose the first goal manager changes tactics back to hoofball
• Keep doing the same thing over and over even though all commentators tell you it's a failed strategy
• Force the players to adopt tactics they clearly don't believe in
• Ugliest football in the Premiership - Butcher you reap what you sew

If we dont abandon these tactics we might as well accept relegation now! We have the players to run AT teams - why not be direct and get INTO the box and score from there

Rant over!!

[dmc1875]

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• One striker isolated up front
• No-one behind him mopping up second balls
• Same problem with Heff up there as well
• Strikers smaller and lighter than opposition centre halves
• Aimless crosses from Craig and McGivern. Lazy, floaty crosses to no-one in particular
• Forster and Nelson not playing through midfield, similar aimless crosses in direction of strikers
• Giving ball away every time with hoofball, losing position inviting opposition to attack
• Nobody prepared to go forward when 40 yard out, switch to wings the only option
• No-one attacking the byline to cut crosses back to strikers
• Wee men Harris, Whatmore getting kicked for fun. Should drive into box to shoot or penalty
• No command of centre circle, often their four to our two
• Only two strikers (max) in box facing up to six defenders
• Shots from too far out, very few if any on target
• Sometimes try different tactics but when we lose the first goal manager changes tactics back to hoofball
• Keep doing the same thing over and over even though all commentators tell you it's a failed strategy
• Force the players to adopt tactics they clearly don't believe in
• Ugliest football in the Premiership - Butcher you reap what you sew

If we dont abandon these tactics we might as well accept relegation now! We have the players to run AT teams - why not be direct and get INTO the box and score from there

Rant over!!

We won't abandon the tactics as this is the only way Butcher sets his teams up...

[clerriehibs]

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• One striker isolated up front
• No-one behind him mopping up second balls
• Same problem with Heff up there as well
• Strikers smaller and lighter than opposition centre halves
• Aimless crosses from Craig and McGivern. Lazy, floaty crosses to no-one in particular
• Forster and Nelson not playing through midfield, similar aimless crosses in direction of strikers
• Giving ball away every time with hoofball, losing position inviting opposition to attack
• Nobody prepared to go forward when 40 yards out, switch to wings the soft option
• No-one attacking the byline to cut crosses back to strikers
• Wee men Harris, Whatmore getting kicked for fun. Should drive into box to shoot or penalty
• No command of centre circle, often their four to our two
• Only two strikers (max) in box facing up to six defenders
• Shots from too far out, very few if any on target
• Sometimes try different tactics but when we lose the first goal manager changes tactics back to hoofball
• Keep doing the same thing over and over even though all commentators tell you it's a failed strategy
• Force the players to adopt tactics they clearly don't believe in
• Ugliest football in the Premiership - Butcher you reap what you sew

If we dont abandon these tactics we might as well accept relegation now! We have the players to run AT teams - why not be direct and get INTO the box and score from there

Rant over!!

Pretty much how I see it too.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

A wise Hibee once said...

"I made that mistake when I went to Middlesbrough," he added. "I really should have used the players that were there and used a system for them.

"So I'm going to get a system that suits these players and over the years, through Mark (Wotte) and Billy (Stark), we'll find a style that works."

Time to rethink Terry?

[macd123]

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• One striker isolated up front
• No-one behind him mopping up second balls
• Same problem with Heff up there as well
• Strikers smaller and lighter than opposition centre halves
• Aimless crosses from Craig and McGivern. Lazy, floaty crosses to no-one in particular
• Forster and Nelson not playing through midfield, similar aimless crosses in direction of strikers
• Giving ball away every time with hoofball, losing position inviting opposition to attack
• Nobody prepared to go forward when 40 yards out, switch to wings the soft option
• No-one attacking the byline to cut crosses back to strikers
• Wee men Harris, Whatmore getting kicked for fun. Should drive into box to shoot or penalty
• No command of centre circle, often their four to our two
• Only two strikers (max) in box facing up to six defenders
• Shots from too far out, very few if any on target
• Sometimes try different tactics but when we lose the first goal manager changes tactics back to hoofball
• Keep doing the same thing over and over even though all commentators tell you it's a failed strategy
• Force the players to adopt tactics they clearly don't believe in
• Ugliest football in the Premiership - Butcher you reap what you sew

If we dont abandon these tactics we might as well accept relegation now! We have the players to run AT teams - why not be direct and get INTO the box and score from there

Rant over!!

It's really so blindingly obvious to absolutely everyone. The coaching is from another era. I m worrying it could set hibs back years. He is ruining stanton. We spend a decade teaching him good habits and watching him now competing for headers and knock downs all day, it's criminal.

The effect it's having on guys like craig and mcgivern is plain to see too. There is no place for stanton, zoubir or harris in this game plan. Cairney will go to dundee united and will be suddenly transformed.

Im dreading these guys filling the squad with hoofball merchants over the summer. Please no.

[mikewynne]

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• One striker isolated up front
• No-one behind him mopping up second balls
• Same problem with Heff up there as well
• Strikers smaller and lighter than opposition centre halves
• Aimless crosses from Craig and McGivern. Lazy, floaty crosses to no-one in particular
• Forster and Nelson not playing through midfield, similar aimless crosses in direction of strikers
• Giving ball away every time with hoofball, losing position inviting opposition to attack
• Nobody prepared to go forward when 40 yards out, switch to wings the soft option
• No-one attacking the byline to cut crosses back to strikers
• Wee men Harris, Whatmore getting kicked for fun. Should drive into box to shoot or penalty
• No command of centre circle, often their four to our two
• Only two strikers (max) in box facing up to six defenders
• Shots from too far out, very few if any on target
• Sometimes try different tactics but when we lose the first goal manager changes tactics back to hoofball
• Keep doing the same thing over and over even though all commentators tell you it's a failed strategy
• Force the players to adopt tactics they clearly don't believe in
• Ugliest football in the Premiership - Butcher you reap what you sew

If we dont abandon these tactics we might as well accept relegation now! We have the players to run AT teams - why not be direct and get INTO the box and score from there

Rant over!!

Totally agree. And add to the list the tactic of sending our central defenders forward and pumping the ball long into the box from every single set piece, even when the ball is in our own half. Hit from such a distance that the ball then gets to the box with no pace, is easily defended and then the opposition gets to counter attack with our the entire team out of position and at most 2 defenders back. Do that 15 times a game, we never score and the other team wins after scoring 'against the run of play'. And repeat the next game...

[snooky]

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• One striker isolated up front
• No-one behind him mopping up second balls
• Same problem with Heff up there as well
• Strikers smaller and lighter than opposition centre halves
• Aimless crosses from Craig and McGivern. Lazy, floaty crosses to no-one in particular
• Forster and Nelson not playing through midfield, similar aimless crosses in direction of strikers
• Giving ball away every time with hoofball, losing position inviting opposition to attack
• Nobody prepared to go forward when 40 yards out, switch to wings the soft option
• No-one attacking the byline to cut crosses back to strikers
• Wee men Harris, Whatmore getting kicked for fun. Should drive into box to shoot or penalty
• No command of centre circle, often their four to our two
• Only two strikers (max) in box facing up to six defenders
• Shots from too far out, very few if any on target
• Sometimes try different tactics but when we lose the first goal manager changes tactics back to hoofball
• Keep doing the same thing over and over even though all commentators tell you it's a failed strategy
• Force the players to adopt tactics they clearly don't believe in
• Ugliest football in the Premiership - Butcher you reap what you sew

If we dont abandon these tactics we might as well accept relegation now! We have the players to run AT teams - why not be direct and get INTO the box and score from there

Rant over!!

Rant spot on

[scuttle]

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• One striker isolated up front
• No-one behind him mopping up second balls
• Same problem with Heff up there as well
• Strikers smaller and lighter than opposition centre halves
• Aimless crosses from Craig and McGivern. Lazy, floaty crosses to no-one in particular
• Forster and Nelson not playing through midfield, similar aimless crosses in direction of strikers
• Giving ball away every time with hoofball, losing position inviting opposition to attack
• Nobody prepared to go forward when 40 yards out, switch to wings the soft option
• No-one attacking the byline to cut crosses back to strikers
• Wee men Harris, Whatmore getting kicked for fun. Should drive into box to shoot or penalty
• No command of centre circle, often their four to our two
• Only two strikers (max) in box facing up to six defenders
• Shots from too far out, very few if any on target
• Sometimes try different tactics but when we lose the first goal manager changes tactics back to hoofball
• Keep doing the same thing over and over even though all commentators tell you it's a failed strategy
• Force the players to adopt tactics they clearly don't believe in
• Ugliest football in the Premiership - Butcher you reap what you sew

If we dont abandon these tactics we might as well accept relegation now! We have the players to run AT teams - why not be direct and get INTO the box and score from there

Rant over!!

Fair assessment......and you could add bizarre substitutions to the list

[Whataball]

The substitutions on Saturday was the icing on the cake for me. Oh along with the 4 at the back for whole game when we had to win.

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[Callum_62]

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The substitutions on Saturday was the icing on the cake for me. Oh along with the 4 at the back for whole game when we had to win.

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What was wrong with the subs?

[Craig_in_Prague]

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• One striker isolated up front
• No-one behind him mopping up second balls
• Same problem with Heff up there as well
• Strikers smaller and lighter than opposition centre halves
• Aimless crosses from Craig and McGivern. Lazy, floaty crosses to no-one in particular
• Forster and Nelson not playing through midfield, similar aimless crosses in direction of strikers
• Giving ball away every time with hoofball, losing position inviting opposition to attack
• Nobody prepared to go forward when 40 yards out, switch to wings the soft option
• No-one attacking the byline to cut crosses back to strikers
• Wee men Harris, Whatmore getting kicked for fun. Should drive into box to shoot or penalty
• No command of centre circle, often their four to our two
• Only two strikers (max) in box facing up to six defenders
• Shots from too far out, very few if any on target
• Sometimes try different tactics but when we lose the first goal manager changes tactics back to hoofball
• Keep doing the same thing over and over even though all commentators tell you it's a failed strategy
• Force the players to adopt tactics they clearly don't believe in
• Ugliest football in the Premiership - Butcher you reap what you sew

If we dont abandon these tactics we might as well accept relegation now! We have the players to run AT teams - why not be direct and get INTO the box and score from there

Rant over!!

100% mate !!

the sad thing is, I was at the Ross County game on 15th Feb, our famous last win (depressing).

We played good that day, on the deck (at least for most of the game), got in behind a couple of times in the 1st half, players looked quite comfertable on the ball and wee Stanton was up and down causing them problems and we played reasonably balanced, attractive football.

WTF we have done since then, I really don't know. Chopping and changing the team, but continous hoofball and as you said, woeful inneffective crosses and shots from way out.

Mental - What's in the Tea down at the training centre. Coz I'm bamboozled.

1 frigging win would have done us in the last 3 months and we now will send this wonderful club back for YEARS if we lose (as expected) in these play offs.

Well done Hibs !

[Whataball]

OTJ, defensive mid when we needed to press. Watmore struggled for ages before being replaced. Robertson didn't look injured.

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[erin go bragh]

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The substitutions on Saturday was the icing on the cake for me. Oh along with the 4 at the back for whole game when we had to win.

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Keeping 4 in defence against 1 , when were needing 2 goals says it all really . Then taking off an attacking midfielder ( Stanton ) to bring on Jones was just as baffling . I thought because of Jones height he was going to put him up front , but no he sits in midfield . You ken its bad when your wishing we had the tango man ( Jimmy Calderwood ) as your manager as at least when his teams were behind he threw caution to the wind and went for it .

Ggtth

[Callum_62]

1. OTJ came on for Robertson (who looked totally knackered), not Stanton (altho I can understand why you might not have noticed him on the pitch, as he was totally ineffectual)

He kept us on the ball, and almost scored with that header (good block AGAIN by the killie defence)

He didnt just hoof it - made sense to me at the time, and still does

Depending on the fitness of Thomson, id be tempted to play OTJ next to Robertson

[PeterboroHibee]

The fact we havent really tried anything else over the last few months, beyond changing the players each week, is what really worries me about Butcher. When he came in I was more than happy for him to implement his style on the team if it was effective, but he should have realised quickly that the players couldnt adapt to it, and therefore tried to work something around who was available. I also thought his interview on Saturday after the game which essentially criticized the strikers was a complete cop out. Sure they have been poor and havent delivered, but Id say a lot of that has to do with the system of play. Theres been quite a few games this season where weve only had a couple of (if any) shots on target, which should have got the message through that we needed to try something different to make chances.

[Stevie Reid]

At a time when Aberdeen, Dundee Utd and Motherwell are all playing fast, attacking football, mainly on the deck (many other teams too), we are stuck with tactics (or lack of) that are reminiscent of a guy who takes charge of a Boys Club team, not because of his football knowledge, but because he is available a few times a week, and has no qualms about shouting abuse at kids.

[Thecat23]

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1. OTJ came on for Robertson (who looked totally knackered), not Stanton (altho I can understand why you might not have noticed him on the pitch, as he was totally ineffectual)

He kept us on the ball, and almost scored with that header (good block AGAIN by the killie defence)

He didnt just hoof it - made sense to me at the time, and still does

Depending on the fitness of Thomson, id be tempted to play OTJ next to Robertson

OTJ was the strangest sub in a while. He offered nothing and he's a terrible player. To continue with 4 at the back was criminal and we should have went three there. He replaces Robbo and still keeps playing 4-4-2.

I looked at McPake and Lewis and McPake actually shook his head and Lewis shrugged his shoulders. Says it all.

If you think that was a good sub I can't for the life of me know why? We lost 1-0 which proves his subs did nothing.

[Hiber-nation]

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OTJ was the strangest sub in a while. He offered nothing and he's a terrible player. To continue with 4 at the back was criminal and we should have went three there. He replaces Robbo and still keeps playing 4-4-2.

I looked at McPake and Lewis and McPake actually shook his head and Lewis shrugged his shoulders. Says it all.

If you think that was a good sub I can't for the life of me know why? We lost 1-0 which proves his subs did nothing.

Worst substitution since Calderwood brought on Agogo and Sodje for Griffiths and O'Connor at Dunfermline.

[bookert]

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1. OTJ came on for Robertson (who looked totally knackered), not Stanton (altho I can understand why you might not have noticed him on the pitch, as he was totally ineffectual)

He kept us on the ball, and almost scored with that header (good block AGAIN by the killie defence)

He didnt just hoof it - made sense to me at the time, and still does

Depending on the fitness of Thomson, id be tempted to play OTJ next to Robertson

Opinions eh, I thought stanton was the only player trying to pass through their defense, which was admirable considering how often the passed 10ft over his head.

[The Gorf]

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We won't abandon the tactics as this is the only way Butcher sets his teams up...

Then he can GTF now and take his entourage with him because he is not going to listen to reason at this stage in the season.

[TheFamous1875]

The substitutions on Saturday were shocking! The game-plan in general was shocking. We needed to WIN. I would've started Stevenson over Robertson, as Robertson's not up to scratch yet. Stevenson gets stuck in and never gives up, and would've been great as the holding midfielder enabling Stanton to push forward. He's reliable.

I would've brought Robertson (Stanton or Craig, whoever was threatening least), Harris (Watmore) and Cummings (Nelson) on as subs in the second half to take the game to Killie.

Stevenson and Maybury to provide defensive cover whilst Forster, McGivern, Craig and Robertson supported Harris, Heffernan, Collins and Cummings up front. With this attacking approach, the game would've been in Killie's half, beating down on their (even worse than ours) defence.

They would've crumbled, and we would've had Stevenson and Maybury covering Forster, Craig and McGivern, who I would've played as a sort-of defensive three in KILLIE'S half. It's unorthodox, but I don't see why we shouldn't have went for something like that when we needed no less than three points.


Something like this:

Williams.


Maybury. Stevenson.

Forster. Craig. McGivern.

Robertson.

Cummings. Heffernan. Collins. Harris.




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[ekhibee]

I disagree with almost every post on this thread. We played 4-4-2, something everybody on here has been screaming out for, and I have no idea what the opening post means by one striker isolated. And still we didn't score. The only possible change to the starting line-up, with the players available, would have been to play Cummings from the start instead of Collins. And what's all this hoofball bollocks? Craig was well involved during the game, particularly the first half, and a lot of the passing to the forwards came through him, along with driving through midfield along with Robertson. We should have been well in front by half time. We're crap, everybody knows that, but distorting how we played on Sunday is nonsense.

[macd123]

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I disagree with almost every post on this thread. We played 4-4-2, something everybody on here has been screaming out for, and I have no idea what the opening post means by one striker isolated. And still we didn't score. The only possible change to the starting line-up, with the players available, would have been to play Cummings from the start instead of Collins. And what's all this hoofball bollocks? Craig was well involved during the game, particularly the first half, and a lot of the passing to the forwards came through him, along with driving through midfield along with Robertson. We should have been well in front by half time. We're crap, everybody knows that, but distorting how we played on Sunday is nonsense.

We just lump balls up the pitch, we never get to the byeline or turn defenders and constantly cross from 30 yards back. It's hoofball.

[Boyle89]

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Worst substitution since Calderwood brought on Agogo and Sodje for Griffiths and O'Connor at Dunfermline.

I said this to my dad whilst heading back to the car on saturday. What goes through managers heads at times?!

[Pete]

Mind numbingly stupid threads by those who's football management experience probably extends to an under 12 team or a computer game.

We need to stick together from top to bottom, not discuss this type of mince.

[Bostonhibby]

[QUOTE=Gogs43;4009501]

• One striker isolated up front
• No-one behind him mopping up second balls
• Same problem with Heff up there as well
• Strikers smaller and lighter than opposition centre halves
• Aimless crosses from Craig and McGivern. Lazy, floaty crosses to no-one in particular
• Forster and Nelson not playing through midfield, similar aimless crosses in direction of strikers
• Giving ball away every time with hoofball, losing position inviting opposition to attack
• Nobody prepared to go forward when 40 yards out, switch to wings the soft option
• No-one attacking the byline to cut crosses back to strikers
• Wee men Harris, Whatmore getting kicked for fun. Should drive into box to shoot or penalty
• No command of centre circle, often their four to our two
• Only two strikers (max) in box facing up to six defenders
• Shots from too far out, very few if any on target
• Sometimes try different tactics but when we lose the first goal manager changes tactics back to hoofball
• Keep doing the same thing over and over even though all commentators tell you it's a failed strategy
• Force the players to adopt tactics they clearly don't believe in
• Ugliest football in the Premiership - Butcher you reap what you sew

All of the above doesn't just happen over night Gogs you really have to work hard at it and stick bloody mindedly with it to achieve so many pointless objectives all at the same time. Does feel like Butcher caught the ball from Fenlon and just kept running :-)

[RIP]

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Mind numbingly stupid threads by those who's football management experience probably extends to an under 12 team or a computer game.

Alternatively a man from a large family of football coaches, fifty years of supporting one club and the consensus of over 200 Hibs Supporters I've spoken to personally in the past 6 months

But you jog on.................

[Hibercelona]

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Mind numbingly stupid threads by those who's football management experience probably extends to an under 12 team or a computer game.

We need to stick together from top to bottom, not discuss this type of mince.

Yep, lets not have a discussion on a board created for discussions, seeing as it displeases you.

We wouldn't want to upset you or make your stay here uncomfortable in any way. This place revolves around you and your opinions only. So lets just close the thread.

[emerald green]

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• One striker isolated up front
• No-one behind him mopping up second balls
• Same problem with Heff up there as well
• Strikers smaller and lighter than opposition centre halves
• Aimless crosses from Craig and McGivern. Lazy, floaty crosses to no-one in particular
• Forster and Nelson not playing through midfield, similar aimless crosses in direction of strikers
• Giving ball away every time with hoofball, losing position inviting opposition to attack
• Nobody prepared to go forward when 40 yards out, switch to wings the soft option
• No-one attacking the byline to cut crosses back to strikers
• Wee men Harris, Whatmore getting kicked for fun. Should drive into box to shoot or penalty
• No command of centre circle, often their four to our two
• Only two strikers (max) in box facing up to six defenders
• Shots from too far out, very few if any on target
• Sometimes try different tactics but when we lose the first goal manager changes tactics back to hoofball
• Keep doing the same thing over and over even though all commentators tell you it's a failed strategy
• Force the players to adopt tactics they clearly don't believe in
• Ugliest football in the Premiership - Butcher you reap what you sew

If we dont abandon these tactics we might as well accept relegation now! We have the players to run AT teams - why not be direct and get INTO the box and score from there

Rant over!!

It's far too late I think to change things now. We have to hope for some kind of miracle that HFC can get through the play-off. If we do, then one of the first things Leeann Dempster should do is sack Butcher and Malpas. I was one of many who thought, and hoped, they would be a good appointment. How wrong can you be? Hindsight is a wonderful thing, but we simply cannot go on like this.

[emerald green]

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Yep, lets not have a discussion on a board created for discussions, seeing as it displeases you.

We wouldn't want to upset you or make your stay here uncomfortable in any way. This place revolves around you and your opinions only. So lets just close the thread.

Agreed mate. I wonder what this guy's football management experience is? I've heard of burying your head in the sand, but he takes the biscuit.