Nevin: give Fenlon more time

[Liberal Hibby]

And everyone's choice of DoF says Fenlon needs more time to let his new signings gel.

Thoughts?

[Billychaotic182]

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And everyone's choice of DoF says Fenlon needs more time to let his new signings gel.

Thoughts?

It's not his signings that's the problem it's his tactics and his inability to
Motivate players. Every Big game we have played under him we have look scared and unprepared

[JJP]

I agreed with every word he said.

[Hibercelona]

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And everyone's choice of DoF says Fenlon needs more time to let his new signings gel.

Thoughts?

Why are we the only club in Scottish football that requires gel in time for players?

Other clubs in the league have no problem signing players and getting them to have an instant impact. They play players in the correct positions and have them playing to their strengths. They don't require time to get all cozy and settled.

[J-C]

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Why are we the only club in Scottish football that requires gel in time for players?

Other clubs in the league have no problem signing players and getting them to have an instant impact. They play players in the correct positions and have them playing to their strengths. They don't require time to get all cozy and settled.

Very true, let Craig play central AM not left wing etc and they don't need gelling.
Apart from OTJ, he's played in his natural position and he's still pants.

[heid the baw]

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Why are we the only club in Scottish football that requires gel in time for players?

Other clubs in the league have no problem signing players and getting them to have an instant impact. They play players in the correct positions and have them playing to their strengths. They don't require time to get all cozy and settled.

Spot on 100%, this talk of gelling is just another feeble excuse. Vine and Craig played together at St Johnstone. Their replacements seemed to gel well enough to punch above their weight on Europe, as did Wotherspoon....

[HFC 0-7]

Said this a lot of times, football teams in Scotland nowadays consists of a couple of long serving players with loans and short term deals. There is no time for teams to gel, you have to hit the ground running. Other teams can do it, we can't. As others have said fenlons tactics are the problem. He has the fear of losing on his mind when putting the team together instead of having a fear of not winning.

[IberianHibernian]

Haven`t Heard Nevin`s interview but agree that demanding managerial change after signing so many players so recently is not right way to run club . More than half our team have just arrived and some are writing them off as duds already . I said here a few weeks ago that if Fenlon was to go he should have gone in summer at season`s end or at latest after Malmo results . We played very badly at Tynecastle and lost against a terrible Hearts team but if we`d lost at Paisley or Kilmarnock would reaction be the same ? We were top of the league in November with a worse squad and now players and manager have a great motivation to do the same again thjis season .

[Liberal Hibby]

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Said this a lot of times, football teams in Scotland nowadays consists of a couple of long serving players with loans and short term deals. There is no time for teams to gel, you have to hit the ground running. Other teams can do it, we can't. As others have said fenlons tactics are the problem. He has the fear of losing on his mind when putting the team together instead of having a fear of not winning.

I think there's a lot in that. I think if Fenlon goes (and it is surely a matter of time now) that his replacement should only be appointed once the transfer window is shut. That gives him three months to coach the current squad (who on paper should easily be top six) rather than tear it apart and sign another team over the next couple of windows.

If we can't have managerial continuity then we shold at least try and get the best out of the existing team.

I'd like to see the board invest in a previously successful manager, but not give him a budget to buy new players. But I don't know any successful manager who might accept those terms...

[hibeedonald]

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Very true, let Craig play central AM not left wing etc and they don't need gelling.
Apart from OTJ, he's played in his natural position and he's still pants.

Except we know OTJ isn't pants, look what Terry Butcher got out of him. Players don't just get bad over 3 months. Something is wrong.

[onfire]

I agree with Pat n, I was as papped off as everyone else today, but I still think once the pressure is off, pat f can turn it round - in saying that he doesn't have that many games left to do this.

There's a fear of losing rather than wanting to win in the team selction. The ploy of the long ball wasn't working 1st half but when Ryan m came on I thought we played much better- could have / should have got a goal.

I'm not in the 'know ' but I don't think he's lost the dressing room.

I'd like to see Caldwell up with Collins with vine or handling or Craig playing just behind them against utd.

[Archie70]

Its changed days.
Players sign short term or loan deals, there is no time given to gel.
We seem to have spent at least the last decade saying "give him time" whoever the manager is. You no longer have time.
PF has been given time, its his team, his tactics, his fitness levels and they are rank rotten. Come Christmas there will be other comings and goings, same again next summer, we can't keep just saying it's a new team give him time.
He should have built the nucleus and everyone that came in in the summer should have slotted in to his style of play and improved what we had.
Sadly we look as far away from a team as we did when he arrived. This is despite the Boards backing and him signing players that "should" walk into most other sides in the league.
He has the ability to turn good players into average ones. His negativity is killing us. His ability to preside over the worst 2, possibly even 3, results for a long long time should and hopefully will signal the end.

[NORTHERNHIBBY]

Even if Fenlon's style of football starts to win games, he surely isn't a long term option? I am all for giving managers time but the options from PF have been awful football and win and awful football and lose.

[Pete]

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Haven`t Heard Nevin`s interview but agree that demanding managerial change after signing so many players so recently is not right way to run club . More than half our team have just arrived and some are writing them off as duds already . I said here a few weeks ago that if Fenlon was to go he should have gone in summer at season`s end or at latest after Malmo results . We played very badly at Tynecastle and lost against a terrible Hearts team but if we`d lost at Paisley or Kilmarnock would reaction be the same ? We were top of the league in November with a worse squad and now players and manager have a great motivation to do the same again thjis season .

On reflection I agree.

Derbies always bring out emotional reactions and while we didn't deserve to win today, they didn't either.

A spirited performance and good result against united is a must. I'm hoping that this spiral of negativity can end and we can get a break that enables us to build some confidence. It's the players that count and maybe they will relax, open up and shine like they can.

I look at the club, the personnel on and off the pitch and am baffled because we should be doing so much more.

One thing I do know is that if our confidence level has risen by even 10% going into the next derby, never mind who is in charge of us, we will slaughter them.

They have nowhere to go while we can correct our situation. Their time will come.

[londonhibby]

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Its changed days.
Players sign short term or loan deals, there is no time given to gel.
We seem to have spent at least the last decade saying "give him time" whoever the manager is. You no longer have time.
PF has been given time, its his team, his tactics, his fitness levels and they are rank rotten. Come Christmas there will be other comings and goings, same again next summer, we can't keep just saying it's a new team give him time.
He should have built the nucleus and everyone that came in in the summer should have slotted in to his style of play and improved what we had.
Sadly we look as far away from a team as we did when he arrived. This is despite the Boards backing and him signing players that "should" walk into most other sides in the league.
He has the ability to turn good players into average ones. His negativity is killing us. His ability to preside over the worst 2, possibly even 3, results for a long long time should and hopefully will signal the end.

I posted these on the protest thread, I guess they have some relevance here too:

Originally Posted by IberianHibernian
6 new players in starting XI today plus KT and Robertson who joined in 2013 too leaving goalie ( 2012 ) and veterans Hanlon and Stevenson . Bad result today but agree with you totally that reaction is over the top .



Except that they (seasoned and experienced professional footballers used to changing teams and hitting the ground running) were up against a team of youngsters and a couple of not-so-seasoned professionals who also have not played that much together.

There really are no excuses for Fenlon anymore. He is tactically inept and unable to get the team to play for the shirt – which is what Locke did manage today.

I can't offer a solution to that other than to change things, and I can't offer any suggestions on how that could be done or who we could bring in. What I do know is that in 40 years of supporting Hibs, Fenlon is down there with CC, Jim Duffy and Bertie Auld.

Originally Posted by IberianHibernian
Not all our new players have a lot of experience ( Mullan still in teens , Collins in early 20s for example ) . We played very badly but didn`t deserve to lose and probably did enough to win ( same players will win whoever is manager in rest of season ) . Not playing for shirt ? Too soon to say and if Fenlon leaves soon I`ll remember him as a manager who did get players to play in green with passion ( debates after losing to Hearts even against a very por Hearts team like present one are not always best time to assess our team ) . If Fenlon continues he`s got a great chance to prove detractors wrong ( players too ) .



I'll give you Mullen, but he (a young, inexperienced, former Hearts player) should never have been on the park, another example of Fenlon's tactical cluelessness – but not Collins, he's had a few teams and been out on loan a few times, and anyway, he was not once fed the kind of ball he needs. As he said in his interview, he's not a target man so Fenlon's hoofball was always going to leave him high and dry.

As to the rest of your post, overall, you sound like a gambling addict "just one more chance to make it right, just one more ..." until of course the house is lost and the wife's away with the milkman.

And in particular: "We played very badly but didn`t deserve to lose and probably did enough to win ( same players will win whoever is manager in rest of season )."

Errr, no. We played really, really bad, turgid, tactically stupid hoofball and always looked likely to leak a goal because we can't defend and were not sent out to win, with players that may well win IF we get a manager who knows how to set out a team and what changes to make, if things are not working (Tom Taiwo, anyone?).


And: "Not playing for shirt ? Too soon to say and if Fenlon leaves soon I`ll remember him as a manager who did get players to play in green with passion."

OK, when in any of the games Fenlon's been in charge, apart from the second half against Falkirk, have we played with passion. There have been games last season where we won, sometimes well, but that wasn't down to Fenlon's managerial nous or ability to fire up his players. It was, in fact, mostly down to the talents of a certain Leigh Griffiths and very, very occasionally, the passion of James McPake.

I've seen this all before, it is Groundhog Day again, with the managerial situaton and with some of the support's blind faith. He's out of his depth, as were CC, Jim Duffy and Auld, (I'd include Sauzee, but he did too much good for us on the park to stain his name with such footballing non-entities) and to a lesser extent Mixu, who took the reins too early in his career and is now enjoying some success.

Yes, there is also something rotten at the heart of Hibees, but given the state of Scottish Football finance and the fact RP owns 10 per cent of the club while also being STF's evil lovechild (or something), that's not going to change anytime soon.

So, our manager's p**h and has had two years to prove that fact to us. He is the weakest link that can be changed, which leaves only one path to take ...

[The Green Goblin]

I'm honestly not sure how people can still believe that Fenlon will turn it around. Fair enough if that is their opinion, but what is it exactly that gives cause for that optimism? What evidence is there that he will achieve this? Because it's certainly not his tactical know-how or his record to date.

The defence of Fenlon in the face of everything (and again, people are entitled to argue that etc) makes me think of that story Paul Newman tells in Butch Cassidy about the guy who falls off a tall building, and as he falls past their windows people hear him saying "alright so far...alright so far..."

[GlenrothesHibee]

Pat is not up to the job. Ive supported him but no sorry he has to go now. He's now given us the 3 most embarrassing results in our history as far as im concerned. Whats next? Relegation?

[Thecat23]

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I agreed with every word he said.

Then like him your wrong.

[Onion]

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On reflection I agree.

Derbies always bring out emotional reactions and while we didn't deserve to win today, they didn't either.

A spirited performance and good result against united is a must. I'm hoping that this spiral of negativity can end and we can get a break that enables us to build some confidence. It's the players that count and maybe they will relax, open up and shine like they can.

I look at the club, the personnel on and off the pitch and am baffled because we should be doing so much more.

One thing I do know is that if our confidence level has risen by even 10% going into the next derby, never mind who is in charge of us, we will slaughter them.

They have nowhere to go while we can correct our situation. Their time will come.

But this was like no other Derby in history. Hearts are being run by a group of Administrators, holding bake sales to stay alive, have lost all their decent players, have Gary Locks as manager, and playing half their youth team. They even lost Stephenson to injury in the first half. In many ways, this was worse than the Malmo result. Every other SPL team would have beaten Hearts yesterday, and beaten Hibs too.

Fenlon simply has no excuse. It should not have been close.

[Iain G]

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But this was like no other Derby in history. Hearts are being run by a group of Administrators, holding bake sales to stay alive, have lost all their decent players, have Gary Locks as manager, and playing half their youth team. They even lost Stephenson to injury in the first half. In many ways, this was worse than the Malmo result. Every other SPL team would have beaten Hearts yesterday, and beaten Hibs too.

Fenlon simply has no excuse. It should not have been close.

Maybe we should have just played our youth team too? Couldn't have been any worse and some of them might have been able to even pass a ball!

[Viva_Palmeiras]

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Then like him your wrong.

Didn't hear the comments but Nevin is a man many said should be in there and get the non-footballing accountants out. Well it would appear his words don't chime with the consensus of opinion here which illustrates the challenge we have. I think we need figure out how to get out of this spiral of destruction. If someone who is "independent" from the regime and a sympathiser then in the cold light of day we need to look at this. The problem is though as others have more eloquently stated we've have to be told to give it time too many times of late.


For the record I've now had enough as I just see no real lasting proof Pat can change games and to not have a go at Hearts yesterday was criminal. So for me a manager that can work with what is here and have us realising our potential in this season where competition is diluted further - it really is astonishing we are not in a position to cash in!

[LancsHibs]

Have a lot of time for Pat Nevin and usually agree with what he says but not on this occasion I can not see what is to be gained by Fenlon staying a day longer.

[francobaresi]

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It's not his signings that's the problem it's his tactics and his inability to
Motivate players. Every Big game we have played under him we have look scared and unprepared

Totally agree, he doesn't seem to know how to motivate the team, congratulating the team after that performance yesterday is not the way and tactics, come on Pat, what were your tactics yesterday to beat Hearts? Long high ball, hit and hope, oh dear....

[patch1875]

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And everyone's choice of DoF says Fenlon needs more time to let his new signings gel.

Thoughts?

is nearly 2 years long enough?

[Phil D. Rolls]

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Pat is not up to the job. Ive supported him but no sorry he has to go now. He's now given us the 3 most embarrassing results in our history as far as im concerned. Whats next? Relegation?

Who knows: liquidation, administration, bake sales?

[scuttle]

Did Butcher not sign seven new players this summer for Inverness and they have made an impact straight away. Time is not the issue ,knowing what you are doing seems to be the problem

[Expecting Rain]

He has had plenty of time, we are playing in the SPL, Motherwell have lost some of their best players as have Hearts, we have signed two of St Johnstone`s best players and continue to play one of them out of position, we are playing a game of non football at the moment which is sore on the eyes and the heart, we`ve signed a centre forward and given him no support from a midfield who are all one paced and flood the midfield, where is the balance? where is the passion? where is the hard work he keeps talking about? which only he saw yesterday. I`m glad Pat Nevin is not the manager although i like him and thought he was a player i would certainly go to watch.


I can`t even comprehend the way he uses Lewis Stevenson.

[blackpoolhibs]

And some folk want Nevin as some sort of DOF, ffs he'd be no better than Petrie if thats the case.

[Gustavo Fring]

after the malmo game , fenlon and the players should have been busting a gut to win our 1st home game and the derby to restore some of our battered pride . not playing for a draw - losing both then trying to declare a 1-0 defeat as some sort of half victory

the guy is kidding himself on if he thinks he can turn this around now , its gone too far and his 1 shot at redemption was to go to tynecastle yesterday and hammer the jambos

he has failed miserably and deserves not even 1 second longer as manager of hibernianFC

[IWasThere2016]

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Said this a lot of times, football teams in Scotland nowadays consists of a couple of long serving players with loans and short term deals. There is no time for teams to gel, you have to hit the ground running. Other teams can do it, we can't. As others have said fenlons tactics are the problem. He has the fear of losing on his mind when putting the team together instead of having a fear of not winning.

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Except we know OTJ isn't pants, look what Terry Butcher got out of him. Players don't just get bad over 3 months. Something is wrong.

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Have a lot of time for Pat Nevin and usually agree with what he says but not on this occasion I can not see what is to be gained by Fenlon staying a day longer.