I'm a glass half full guy. A happy clapper supporter as some refer to on here. Thursday was a watershed for me though as I was totally distraught after the match.
Now the emotions have died away a bit, I think it's time to wake up and smell the coffee. We have underachieved as a Club for far too long now. Hibs are suffering from a complete lack of ambition and our current and previous Boards of Directors are wholly to blame. People say the buck stops with the football Manager, but it doesn't. Changing Manager after Manager is a smokescreen and diverts attention from the real problem; a lack of ambition by our leaders.
I like Pat Fenlon. I think he screwed up big time with tactics and team selection on Thursday but to blame him for our problems and call for his head, is just pulling the wool over the eyes.
Rangers and Hearts are on their knees. The quality in the SPFL is as poor as it has ever been. Hibs more then any other Club should be challenging Celtic but we find ourselves a laughing stock.
Time for the Board to announce to supporters how they are going to turn things around and to confirm how they are going to ensure that we never experience an embarrassment like Thursday ever again. If they have no vision for our Club, then they should all resign immediately and allow people with ambition to take us forward.
Glory Glory to the Hibees.
Results 1 to 30 of 47
Thread: Lack of Ambition
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27-07-2013 10:19 PM #1
Lack of Ambition
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28-07-2013 01:59 AM #2
Lack of ambition?
I now realize where Hibs have been going wrong. They should have shown the level of ambition of neighbours Hearts and spent £6 million a year more than income.
The club formerly known as Rangers had a similar idea earlier.
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28-07-2013 02:10 AM #3
Theres a lack of ambition and there is just stupidity.
Hibs need to find the right balance so that we don't end up like hearts and rangers but I do agree that something has to be done especially when "wee teams" like St Johnstone do better than us on lower budgets
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28-07-2013 03:03 AM #4This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
That is bugger all to to with ambition it is signing better players and hiring better managers but living within their budget. No-one goes out deliberately to sign bad players or bad managers.
Scottish football is littered with ghosts of teams who showed 'ambition'. Apart from Hearts and Rangers look at Motherwell and Livingstone of ten or more years ago who ended up in administration (twice for Livvy). Look at Dundee who also had two goes at administration. All the above have ended up relegated apart from Motherwell who were 'saved' by a non-compliant stadium at Falkirk.
Hibs have wasted a lot of money firing and hiring managers (plus their support staff) usually at the insistence of the support. They have also lost some good players because they became targets of the boo boys.
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28-07-2013 03:20 AM #5This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
Fair enough but what do you suggest?
Continue on this current track of losing money, fans and games and becoming a laughing stock of Scottish football or do we fix this?
And how do you expect us to fix this problem with out being ambitious and showing the desire to fix it?
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28-07-2013 03:20 AM #6
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Maybe the frustrations of the fan base could be assuaged if the club indicates honestly that it is satisfied for us to sit mid-league and that really, trophies are for other people and we should just be happy to be there when we do, but not expect to actually win anything? A Hibs family fun day but the result is secondary: we're there to make up the numbers.
The 5-1 result was a low point. But I did find the general feeling of relief and satisfaction of a good day out at Hampden this May was a bit cringe inducing.
I think what we are seeing now is the outcome of several years of frustration and not seeming to actually have any higher aims.
We're a jaded bunch.
On the booing of players: it's a bit disheartening and it's not something I do. However, there have been various examples of players over the years who have just been pitiful regularly, played error strewn games and at worst, have not put in an honest shift at their work.
To me, our ambition going into every season - and I'd suggest for maybe 5-6 teams in the SPFL has to be to attain the treble. Where we should reflect on our position is how we get on in relation to that target. If teams don't aspire to win everything that is on offer then what is the point of taking part? I honestly believe that part of the OF success over the last few years can be put down to teams going into the games having already written off the points or the next round of the cup before a ball has even been kicked.Last edited by steakbake; 28-07-2013 at 03:41 AM.
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28-07-2013 04:20 AM #7
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I think Hibs' unquestioned ambition should always be to challenge for the title. And what I mean by that is, is that as much as that's highly unlikely, if we were challenging for second/third year after year, we would have to improve on that, and the only way we could do that is to one day work to the point where we maybe could challenge yer Celtics, and yer The Rangers for the league. Why's it impossible? If we do everything right, one day it could be done. If that's really our aim, I'm sure Petrie is a good enough businessman to make it so.
Sorry if this seems disjointed nonsense. Done a long shift and just thinking out loud as am shattered hahaGGTH
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28-07-2013 05:20 AM #8This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
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28-07-2013 06:53 AM #9
Folk trot out this line every time we fail, when they say we lack ambition what they really mean is they want us to spend more money.
We spend each season what we bring in and more, hence losing money. And thats after spending more than most teams in the SPL.
Here's a novel idea, instead of saying we lack ambition, why don't we demand the clown thats running our club appoints a manager who actually knows what he's doing for a change.
Then that manager spends the available budget wisely, and sets up a team properly with a purpose and entertaining way of playing football.
If thats not possible, then why does he not just **** off and let one of the other 99 Petries have a go?
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28-07-2013 07:20 AM #10
I don't understand how you can go from being a self-professed 'happy clapper' to questioning the entire structure, vision and ambition of the club after one game. I'm not saying it's wrong to question it, just that I don't understand how it can all change on one game. When I form an opinion on Hibs, it tends to form over time/games.
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28-07-2013 07:29 AM #11
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There is no lack of ambition for me. We simply have had bad managers who have failed to deliver. I believe that both CC and PF have been given or have resource greater than most SPL teams they just lack the papers to use them correctly.
Petrie does apoear to back his managers its just they are not worth backing. I feel people are looking to deeply into things it is simply certainly 2 bad appointments in a row. Fenlon has made his errors but the club has made serious errors before Pat arrived and then for me with Pat himself.
People at board level have come and gone but Petrie had a 0-7 and a 5-1 of his own with CC and he will have surley of had a hand at some level in PF joining. I do not know who but we need better decisions made with such key positions.
There is no point in backing our manager if he cant do the job. We need a manager fit to use the resources and we need people fit to appoint, this has gone on way to long and its disgraceful.Last edited by Captain Trips; 28-07-2013 at 07:52 AM.
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28-07-2013 07:41 AM #12This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
Eventually after yet ANOTHER embarrassing result, you have to ask yourself why? And you have to ask yourself who is the constant in all these disastrous results?
When Petrie appoints a new manager, its obvious you have to back him and give him time. There then becomes a time like Thursday when i have said enough is enough, i can't speak for anyone else but thats it in a nutshell for me.
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28-07-2013 07:43 AM #13
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Hibs in terms of Scottish football are a big club, but unfortunately the OF are massive clubs. The yams cheated for the last 20 year's to achieve 2 Scottish cups. Whilst we have won 2 league cups. Other league form has been patchy but for the 30+ years I've watched Hibs its always been that way. Just because we get bigger crowds than most in the league does not give us the right to success. Look at Arsenal and even more so Newcastle. PF has made mistakes and has given us 2 of worst results in our history but we need to stick by him and let him finish the job he has started
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28-07-2013 08:17 AM #14
Where was this lack of ambition when we had McLeish as manager spending millions, or Mowbray, when with the help of some good youngsters and some very good additions had us playing the best football since the tornadoes?
Getting the right manager with our budget to spend should virtually guarantee much better than we show. Thats not lack of ambition, its constantly employing clueless managers, and we all know who's to blame here.
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28-07-2013 08:39 AM #15
First thing We need is a fan to win the Euro Millions as that just might mean a change or owner and "leadership".
Heehaw is going to change meantime..
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28-07-2013 09:05 AM #16
I see there's quite a few replies saying that lack of ambition isn't a factor and its purely down to picking the right Manager.
If we do have ambition as a Club, then can someone tell me what that ambition is? What do we want to achieve as a Club this season, in the next 5 years, in the next 10 years? I don't have a clue what that ambition is and unless the Hibs board are keeping there aspirations to themselves it sounds like they do not have a clue either.
Finishing in the bottom six as often as the top 6, winning the league cup 3 times in 40+ years, qualifying for European football only occasionally, a shocking derby record, no SC win for over 100 years and 2 of the worst humpings in our history occurring in recents seasons.
If the Hibernian Board do have ambition then it looks to me that they have spectacularly failed over a long period of time. Blaming the Manager for failure time after time won't move us forward.
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28-07-2013 09:19 AM #17
Challenging Celtic? really? They have jut taken in around £40m from CL money and player sales.
We should be challenging for second place and the club has the ambition to do that, signing arguably 2/3 of the best players from teams who finished above us (Tudor-Jones from Inverness and Craig/Vine from Saints) and unlike any other club (outwith Celtic) actually spent money on a player. A club in the SPL paying £200k for a player is almost unheard of nowadays.
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28-07-2013 09:31 AM #18This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
Last edited by Moon unit; 28-07-2013 at 09:37 AM. Reason: Repeated it by mistake!!!
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28-07-2013 09:31 AM #19
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Ambition means a high performance culture, where people (Board, Manager, Players and even the owner) are accountable for delivery of outstanding results and have a driven determination to succeed. Hibs will now have the 2nd or 3rd highest payroll in the SPL. Hibs NATURAL end position should in that case be 2nd or 3rd in the SPL. Ambition is striving to exceed that natural position ! Fenlon, the Hibs players and the Hibs Board's silence is damning. There is no drive, ambition, pride or proper accountability at Hibs.
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28-07-2013 09:35 AM #20
The fans may feel more valued if a credible statement of intent was issued from the club following the latest balls up!...
Last edited by Moon unit; 28-07-2013 at 09:40 AM.
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28-07-2013 09:36 AM #21
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28-07-2013 09:40 AM #22This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
Our realistic and attainable target over a five year period should be a cup win and an average league placing of third. In turn that means starting each season with the aim of finishing second* in the league and winning both cups. That won't happen every year, but we have to aim high in order to achieve anything. We can't compete with Septic's budget* over the course of 38 league games, but we can compete with them for 90 minutes in a league or cup match. Worth remembering that there's not just Hibs who should have such a target - Aberdeen and Yamco 2014 should have similar ambitions every year and there will be other clubs (eg Dundee United, Motherwell) who can aspire to that as well but in their case it will be cyclical and dependant on the right manager and squad being in place. It's just that us, Aberdeen and Yamco 2014 have high (by SPL standards) budgets which should make it easier to compete every year.
*Given Sevco Huns' budget, we won't be able to compete with them over 38 games either once they enter the top flight so my aim would be revised to targeting third and a five year average of fourth. Maybe one cup every six years rather than five.Mature, sensible signature required for responsible position. Good prospects for the right candidate. Apply within.
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28-07-2013 09:43 AM #23This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
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28-07-2013 09:45 AM #24This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
I believe signing two of the key players from the St J team who finished 3rd spot in the league is the market we should be operating in. Proven SPL pedigree players taken from teams who did better than us. In effect cherry picking the SPL players the OF haven't already cherry picked. For too long we have gambled on unproven or failed lower English league players. Added to the signings of Vine and Craig, the outlay on Collins shows the Board showing some ambition.
I believe PR is one of our biggest problems. No one wants a return to the Duff and Gray media circus but the uber conservative nature of Petrie and STF doesn't help. As with all things theres a happy medium which could be achieved.
The CF crowds and Thursdays crowd prove that despite all the stats which THA quite rightly and accurately quoted, the Hibs support is out there just waiting for the slightest glimmer of hope to turn out in numbers. The club can only harness that support by continuing to strengthen the team in areas we all know need strengthened. They have made a good start with the signings made but they cant afford to now sit back. That SPL market I mentioned before needs to be gone back into.
Given our resources and crowd potential there is no reason why we shouldn't do what teams with lesser of both did last season. If we don't the responsibility for that will imo be shared by PF and the Board.
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28-07-2013 09:49 AM #25This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
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28-07-2013 09:57 AM #26This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
Perhaps upping the budget for the manager's salary would entice a more experienced candidate, who would be more likely to get it right.
Although having said that, Hughes had been a manager for a while.....................
Spending more than we have is just storing up trouble.
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28-07-2013 10:08 AM #27
We have a state of the art training complex and a greater player budget than most SPL sides yet we still see the likes of St Johnstone, Motherwell, Dundee Utd, Aberdeen etc. do better than us. It's not about spending more money, it's about spending the money wisely and having a manager that is able to bring out the best in players and make the best of the players he has. Look at last season for example, Ross County, ICT and St Johnstone all finished above us. Their playing budgets will be much lower than ours and they haven't got the state of the art training complex facilities that we have but they manage to get the best out of mediocre players and make the best out of what they have and obviously it pays off, where as perhaps our players might be a bit too pampered and have a believe they are better than they are.
As mentioned above in a previous post, I certainly wouldn't want us to go about our business like the rangers and hearts did, spending millions and millions we don't have on players way out of our budget because although it would bring instant gratification and short term success, the long term implications are far worse and I most defiantly don't want to be in the mess hearts are in a few years down the line, fighting for our very existence.
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28-07-2013 10:08 AM #28
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I dont want to have a go at him personally, he's managed the clubs finances quite well but we have made some very poor choices in picking our managers over the years.
We've backed them well financially, I dont know our exact budget but I suspect all were operating with a budget better than the majority of teams in the SPL and right now it must be close to, if not the 2nd highest. Under Fenlon we've pinched Clancy, OTJ, Vine and Craig from our rivals - I'd imagine the only reasons they would join a club that has finished lower than their present teams is largely due to increased wages.
Looks like were going to spend on Collins and did spend on guys like Stokes and even smaller fees for people like Rankin and Nish if I recall correctly.
The fact is the managers have been backed, I dont think the board as sitting with a secret pile of cash they could give to the manager but just dont bother to.
But put simply, ever since the appointment of Mowbray, how many good managers have we brought in? Of the guys that have resigned/been sacked, how many have gone on to great things? We've hired poor managers and they have signed poor players or signed decent players and not known what to do with them.
That is far and away the boards biggest failing. I think Fenlon's time is up but I am concerned that if he goes, the same folk will be picking the new manager and I'm not confident the right choices will be made this time.
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28-07-2013 10:35 AM #29
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Just to add a bit of historical perspective.
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28-07-2013 10:48 AM #30This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
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