Depression and anxiety

[lord bunberry]

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I did your job for four years, and was severely depressed as a result. It's lonely and it cuts down your opportunities to mix with other people. You almost feel like your watching the rest of the world go about its business, but you're never part of it.

Switching to days made a big difference, and not much less money either. The main thing was having a "normal" start time, and also I felt less a creature of the night.

Worth thinking about ways you can change it. Maybe a share that involves one week nights, one week days?

You're absolutely spot on about working nights. I'm looking at doing 4 days on then 4 days off, it'll mean working long hours for 4 days but then I will have 4 days off to spend at home doing normal family things.

[Phil D. Rolls]

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You're absolutely spot on about working nights. I'm looking at doing 4 days on then 4 days off, it'll mean working long hours for 4 days but then I will have 4 days off to spend at home doing normal family things.

Work life balance is so important. Particularly when you're isolated in your working life.

[Stranraer]

I have a question regarding personality disorders. I have been diagnosed with one myself but I read under the mental health act (I think it was) that they are considered "untreatable". Does anyone know if this is true? Does it mean we can't get sectioned?

[Phil D. Rolls]

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I have a question regarding personality disorders. I have been diagnosed with one myself but I read under the mental health act (I think it was) that they are considered "untreatable". Does anyone know if this is true? Does it mean we can't get sectioned?

There was a thread about this last year, but I can't find it.

Anyway, here's the criteria for detention.

Criteria for issuing a short-term detention certificate

Criteria for a short-term detention certificate are:

• the patient is likely to have a mental disorder
• the patient is likely to have significantly impaired decision-making ability with respect to medical treatment for mental disorder, as a result of his or her mental disorder
• it is likely that detention in hospital is necessary to determine what medical treatment is required or to provide that treatment
• it is likely that significant risk exists to the health, safety and welfare of the patient or to the safety of others if the patient is not detained
• it is likely that granting of a short-term detention certificate is necessary, for example because a patient is refusing to accept treatment on a voluntary basis.

PDs are responsible for their actions and it is not a defence in court. It's therefore a contentious matter as to whether the person is mentally ill. Most doctors won't admit you if it is clear that you are aware of what you have been doing and the consequences of those actions.

Likewise if you are voicing suicidal ideation and are deemed to have control over your actions, and are fully aware of the implications of your actions, then you will also be discharged. It's your life and no one has the right to stop you living it and ending it on your terms.

• it is likely that detention in hospital is necessary to determine what medical treatment is required or to provide that treatment

PDs may be detained if they are exhibiting signs of mental illness (many of them are skilled at affecting these traits). However, if after assessment, there is no sign of mental illness they will either be discharged, or invited to stay informally. If there admission to hospital has a forensic connection - ie a criminal act has been perpetrated, then they will be discharged and the police may or may not be informed.

The only real way a PD can "cure" themselves is to learn the lessons of life. They are lucky enough to have control over what they are doing, unlike people with "genuine" mental illness. Unfortunately many of them have had horrendous experiences in the past, and have come to the false conclusion that exhibiting deviant behaviour is the answer to their problems.

If you want to know more, ask the person who diagnosed you. You seem to be having a frustrating search for answers on here as you (or somebody like you) raises this subject from time to time.

[Stranraer]

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There was a thread about this last year, but I can't find it.

Anyway, here's the criteria for detention.

Criteria for issuing a short-term detention certificate

Criteria for a short-term detention certificate are:

• the patient is likely to have a mental disorder
• the patient is likely to have significantly impaired decision-making ability with respect to medical treatment for mental disorder, as a result of his or her mental disorder
• it is likely that detention in hospital is necessary to determine what medical treatment is required or to provide that treatment
• it is likely that significant risk exists to the health, safety and welfare of the patient or to the safety of others if the patient is not detained
• it is likely that granting of a short-term detention certificate is necessary, for example because a patient is refusing to accept treatment on a voluntary basis.

PDs are responsible for their actions and it is not a defence in court. It's therefore a contentious matter as to whether the person is mentally ill. Most doctors won't admit you if it is clear that you are aware of what you have been doing and the consequences of those actions.

Likewise if you are voicing suicidal ideation and are deemed to have control over your actions, and are fully aware of the implications of your actions, then you will also be discharged. It's your life and no one has the right to stop you living it and ending it on your terms.

• it is likely that detention in hospital is necessary to determine what medical treatment is required or to provide that treatment

PDs may be detained if they are exhibiting signs of mental illness (many of them are skilled at affecting these traits). However, if after assessment, there is no sign of mental illness they will either be discharged, or invited to stay informally. If there admission to hospital has a forensic connection - ie a criminal act has been perpetrated, then they will be discharged and the police may or may not be informed.

The only real way a PD can "cure" themselves is to learn the lessons of life. They are lucky enough to have control over what they are doing, unlike people with "genuine" mental illness. Unfortunately many of them have had horrendous experiences in the past, and have come to the false conclusion that exhibiting deviant behaviour is the answer to their problems.

If you want to know more, ask the person who diagnosed you. You seem to be having a frustrating search for answers on here as you (or somebody like you) raises this subject from time to time.

thanks great post, I read that the DSM IV deems BPD as a mental illness but wasn't sure. Thanks for your help :)

[Pete]

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I did your job for four years, and was severely depressed as a result. It's lonely and it cuts down your opportunities to mix with other people. You almost feel like your watching the rest of the world go about its business, but you're never part of it.

Switching to days made a big difference, and not much less money either. The main thing was having a "normal" start time, and also I felt less a creature of the night.

I love the job for the very reasons that you hated it. I'm extremely happy in my own company and prefer a working environment in which I'm completely in control of and if the truth be told I don't think I could answer to anyone again. The family life is actually better working nights than it is days....ok, I'm out of kilter for a while but when I analyse the hours I do then I'm better off than a lot of 6am-6pm guys who hardly see their kids.

I used to laugh at the guys who broke off for and hour and headed to the cannonmills garage or the back of the tron rank for a blether with their comrades. It's not for me but maybe there's something in what they do that keeps them happy with their lot.

[Phil D. Rolls]

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I love the job for the very reasons that you hated it. I'm extremely happy in my own company and prefer a working environment in which I'm completely in control of and if the truth be told I don't think I could answer to anyone again. The family life is actually better working nights than it is days....ok, I'm out of kilter for a while but when I analyse the hours I do then I'm better off than a lot of 6am-6pm guys who hardly see their kids.

I used to laugh at the guys who broke off for and hour and headed to the cannonmills garage or the back of the tron rank for a blether with their comrades. It's not for me but maybe there's something in what they do that keeps them happy with their lot.

I was single at the time, and going home to an empty house. The pub became too much of a refuge, and I was drinking too much. I sailed into a perfect storm for depression. Have to say I was happy in my last year, or so, doing day shift. I used to enjoy talking to other guys on the Jenner's rank on a Saturday - mind you I was starting to feel the benefits of anti depressants by then.

[Phil D. Rolls]

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thanks great post, I read that the DSM IV deems BPD as a mental illness but wasn't sure. Thanks for your help :)

DSMIV invents new mental illness every time it comes out - it's utter crap and is just a manual to permit physicians to prescribe drugs.

The fact is, under the law, you have to be deemed incapable of controlling your actions before you are deemed mentally ill.

[Stranraer]

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DSMIV invents new mental illness every time it comes out - it's utter crap and is just a manual to permit physicians to prescribe drugs.

The fact is, under the law, you have to be deemed incapable of controlling your actions before you are deemed mentally ill.

Ok, really excellent stuff mate learning a lot here thank you!

[Stranraer]

On the subject, my Blog is now a Mental Health one which details some of my experiences with medication, therapy and self harm. Some may find it useful.

[CropleyWasGod]

Talking of blogs, here is the transcript of a talk I gave last week at a seminar:-

Depression.pdf

[MSK]

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Talking of blogs, here is the transcript of a talk I gave last week at a seminar:-

Depression.pdf

Excellent article CWG ..thanks for sharing, many of those things I can relate to ..

[Phil D. Rolls]

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On the subject, my Blog is now a Mental Health one which details some of my experiences with medication, therapy and self harm. Some may find it useful.

I've read your blog, I'd advise others to avoid it. Basically, the only thing I can urge you to do is take responsibility for your own life, and stop laying things like that onto other people. Many who come onto this thread will be vulnerable, and have a right to be protected from your threats.

I wondered why it was that you didn't have the IT skills to Google information about being sectioned, yet you have the skills to write a blog. I don't now.

It's not a judgement but IMO this is not the place for you to be sharing, or hinting at, your thoughts about self deliverance. The majority of people who come on here are not skilled at dealing with people like you, and would very likely become alarmed by it.

I'm not an admin here, but I've shared my concerns about you with them. Hope you appreciate this is for your own good, but more importantly when you start musing on things like that in public then other people need protected to.

You have a choice what you right. They have no choice over whether they read it if they follow your links. There are other forums which, I'm sure, are more appropriate.

[Stranraer]

The blog has been taken down. The above poster has had a problem with me for a while now and I'm not wanting to go into why. Part of the reason I posted about my blog was because I want to see a great change in the way the NHS in Scotland treats people with mental illness.

My blog has many followers from England and America in particular who take some great strength from it but I'll take it down from this site.

It certainly wasn't my intention to upset, or encourage anyone to do something harmful.

[Phil D. Rolls]

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The blog has been taken down. The above poster has had a problem with me for a while now and I'm not wanting to go into why. Part of the reason I posted about my blog was because I want to see a great change in the way the NHS in Scotland treats people with mental illness.

My blog has many followers from England and America in particular who take some great strength from it but I'll take it down from this site.

It certainly wasn't my intention to upset, or encourage anyone to do something harmful.

Well you did cause upset, and IMO it was potentially harmful as well. You can help yourself immensly by accepting that and considering the feelings of others when you link them to external sites.

I don't have a problem with you, and you have never mentioned this before. In fact, about four posts back when I was helping you out with your queries about the Mental Health Act, you said thanks. Yet when I challenge you about something I consider inappropriate like your blog, all of a sudden I am on your back. What does that tell us about Borderline Personality Disorder?

As I said in the PM posting hints about the date you are thinking of killing yourself is going to be upsetting for other people. That's the first thing that people would have seen when arriving at the blog. A whole page focussed on you.

I work in mental health, and i found it disturbing. Goodness knows what somebody with no real knowledge of how to deal with suicide or parasuicide would react. You really need to consider that before sharing your feelings with others.

If you are struggling with your condition as much as you suggest you are, do you really think you are the best person to be offering help to others at the moment?

Anybody who has thoughts of self harm, might find the following sites useful:

http://breathingspace.scot/?gclid=CI...FUGx2wod8SgAjA

http://www.samh.org.uk/

[MSK]

Guys, we really need to try keep this thread on topic, suicidal thoughts are part & parcel of low mood/depression & folk should be encouraged, should they wish, to express their feelings. However, we could really do without it being placed on a public forum or in links to blogs. It doesn't sit well with me & I know others feel the same. I feel as folk have trusted others by sharing their experiences of mental health issues on here we should respect those of whom have had had the courage to share them.

[Phil D. Rolls]

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Guys, we really need to try keep this thread on topic, suicidal thoughts are part & parcel of low mood/depression & folk should be encouraged, should they wish, to express their feelings. However, we could really do without it being placed on a public forum or in links to blogs. It doesn't sit well with me & I know others feel the same. I feel as folk have trusted others by sharing their experiences of mental health issues on here we should respect those of whom have had had the courage to share them.

Would there be any mileage in putting up a sticky with emergency contact numbers for people experiencing overwhelming thoughts? I think it would be helpful if people were directed to dedicated, professionally run resources.

[MSK]

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Would there be any mileage in putting up a sticky with emergency contact numbers for people experiencing overwhelming thoughts? I think it would be helpful if people were directed to dedicated, professionally run resources.

No, we are a football forum mate, first & foremost ..this thread in particular is in a sub forum where people can share their experiences with others of whom have had similar ...as harsh as it may sound, we are not the Samaritans & therefore we shouldn't be putting sticky threads up.

However I dont have an issue if folk link in threads.

[Phil D. Rolls]

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No, we are a football forum mate, first & foremost ..this thread in particular is in a sub forum where people can share their experiences with others of whom have had similar ...as harsh as it may sound, we are not the Samaritans & therefore we shouldn't be putting sticky threads up.

However I dont have an issue if folk link in threads.

No problem.

[stu in nottingham]

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Well you did cause upset, and IMO it was potentially harmful as well. You can help yourself immensly by accepting that and considering the feelings of others when you link them to external sites.

I don't have a problem with you, and you have never mentioned this before. In fact, about four posts back when I was helping you out with your queries about the Mental Health Act, you said thanks. Yet when I challenge you about something I consider inappropriate like your blog, all of a sudden I am on your back. What does that tell us about Borderline Personality Disorder?

As I said in the PM posting hints about the date you are thinking of killing yourself is going to be upsetting for other people. That's the first thing that people would have seen when arriving at the blog. A whole page focussed on you.

I work in mental health, and i found it disturbing. Goodness knows what somebody with no real knowledge of how to deal with suicide or parasuicide would react. You really need to consider that before sharing your feelings with others.

If you are struggling with your condition as much as you suggest you are, do you really think you are the best person to be offering help to others at the moment?

Anybody who has thoughts of self harm, might find the following sites useful:

http://breathingspace.scot/?gclid=CI...FUGx2wod8SgAjA

http://www.samh.org.uk/

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Guys, we really need to try keep this thread on topic, suicidal thoughts are part & parcel of low mood/depression & folk should be encouraged, should they wish, to express their feelings. However, we could really do without it being placed on a public forum or in links to blogs. It doesn't sit well with me & I know others feel the same. I feel as folk have trusted others by sharing their experiences of mental health issues on here we should respect those of whom have had had the courage to share them.

Indeed (both posts). It's obviously a complicated issue for me with my own recent experience dealing with the fallout of the suicide of my partner but it is certainly not an issue to be trifled with or bandied around. Talk about it by all means, that is to be encouraged but it has to be done with extreme responsibility and a consideration as to how that dialogue may affect others.

There are no certainties around this subject and as I say, the effects of it's tentacles can be incredibly far-reaching and complex, almost beyond understanding. I have come to realise that.

[MSK]

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Indeed (both posts). It's obviously a complicated issue for me with my own recent experience dealing with the fallout of the suicide of my partner but it is certainly not an issue to be trifled with or bandied around. Talk about it by all means, that is to be encouraged but it has to be done with extreme responsibly and a consideration as to how that dialogue may affect others.

There are no certainties around this subject and as I say, the effects of it's tentacles can be incredibly far-reaching and complex, almost beyond understanding. I have come to understand that.

Absolutley Stu ..yourself most recently lost a loved one, as much as she shared with yourself & others there was something else eating away inside. No-one will ever know what that was but she made a tragic & sad decision, a decision that would impact on you & her family for the rest of your lives.

My Uncle done the same, a few days before Christmas. why ..?...no-one knows ..only he.

Some stuff posted on this forum is brilliant, to the extent it assures folk suffering from depression that they are not alone, everyone have shared their experiences & a few have offered support, be it via private mail or via links. However, to give a link, time & date of your intended "departure" on this very forum has to be discouraged. We can offer advice, openly. but we cant cure.

[stu in nottingham]

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Absolutley Stu ..yourself most recently lost a loved one, as much as she shared with yourself & others there was something else eating away inside. No-one will ever know what that was but she made a tragic & sad decision, a decision that would impact on you & her family for the rest of your lives.

My Uncle done the same, a few days before Christmas. why ..?...no-one knows ..only he.

Some stuff posted on this forum is brilliant, to the extent it assures folk suffering from depression that they are not alone, everyone have shared their experiences & a few have offered support, be it via private mail or via links. However, to give a link, time & date of your intended "departure" on this very forum has to be discouraged. We can offer advice, openly. but we cant cure.

Would echo what you say in reference to this thread, K. A football forum generally speaking but this long running discussion is, dare I say, the most important one that has ever appeared on hibs.net. Along the way it may keep one or two people alive and considering the impact that decision has on others also, there can be nothing more vital or relevant.

The impact I can only describe as permanent scarring on one's life. One can find a way to live with it, one indeed must, but it is something irretrievable that will never 'go away' ultimately. I could perhaps write a small book on it at this stage.

Anything that can avert that from happening to others, such as the frank and meaningful discussion and exchange of information and views as on the majority of this thread I would heartily commend so well done all.

[Phil D. Rolls]

Thanks for the input Stu and HH.

My concerns on the subject stem from an incident on here earlier this year. I got a PM from another poster expressing concern over someone on here's mental state.

I got the impression that person had been threatening suicide, and that the person who'd written to me was frantic with worry. It raised the question about how to deal with the situation.

The fact that we know nothing about each other is a double edged sword. It helps us to be more open about things we'd otherwise be shy about talking about.

On the other hand, when we get situations where someone hints at specific plans, it leaves us in a vulnerable position. We can't do anything to help like get in touch with their GPS, or the local police - yet find ourselves worrying about what will happen.

To an extent, we have to have some boundaries - because the message board is not set up as a suicide prevention site. Obviously it's a very grey area, but the general advice I'd give people is not to get too involved in other peoples problems.

Sadly there are people who will exploit general chat to focus the discussion on themselves and their issues. Such people are capable of using the threat of suicide to draw others into their control and to try and help them sort their issues.

Moderators of self help groups often struggle to maintain the balance between allowing people to share their problems, and preventing them dominating the discussion.

For that reason, I'd urge anybody with concerns about suicide to direct the individual to appropriate places like NHS24, SAMH, and Breathing Space, and leave it there. If they continue to pester you make it clear that you are not responsible for what happens to them.

I think it would also be good etiquette for people to consider the impact of what you they need to discuss, and whether this is the best site to discuss it.

I always find this thread touching, and envigorating, as HH says though first and foremost its a football forum, and there has to be a limit to how far things can go. I suppose a comparable topic might be a thread about our sex lives - being British we seem to be far better at setting appropriate boundaries on that subject.

The last thing I want to do is to discourage people from talking about Depression. I just think we have to be careful how far we take it.

[Stranraer]

I just wanted to take the time to post an apology on this thread. I've been very selfish in some of my posts and I certainly didn't intend to upset anyone. I'm going through it very badly just now but not only must I think of others feelings, I must also respect that this is at the end of the day a football forum. I sincerely apologise to those offended and to the user who I insulted, I was completely out of order.

<3Mozza

[wpj]

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I just wanted to take the time to post an apology on this thread. I've been very selfish in some of my posts and I certainly didn't intend to upset anyone. I'm going through it very badly just now but not only must I think of others feelings, I must also respect that this is at the end of the day a football forum. I sincerely apologise to those offended and to the user who I insulted, I was completely out of order.

<3Mozza

Hope things are ok with you and you have some support available to you

[Mikey09]

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I just wanted to take the time to post an apology on this thread. I've been very selfish in some of my posts and I certainly didn't intend to upset anyone. I'm going through it very badly just now but not only must I think of others feelings, I must also respect that this is at the end of the day a football forum. I sincerely apologise to those offended and to the user who I insulted, I was completely out of order.

<3Mozza

Good on you mate... If you feel you've offended anyone, although I don't think you have, then it takes bollocks to apologise. As someone else posted, this time of year is weird. Certainly for me. From Halloween onwards my mental state and emotions take a battering. Bipolar is a bitch!! I can feel on top of the world one minute then WALLOP!! That brutal feeling in my stomach hits me and I just want to lock myself away from everyone until it passes. However, I have learned over time that's the worst thing I can do. I try like **** to stick to my wee plan as I have complete faith that it works, for me that is. I also have a wife who helps me so much. When I'm getting too high she lets me know, but she also helps me with the lows.... We all need help with this and for me that's the key. It's not sympathy or feeling sorry for me as that can make people feel like a victim. It's an understanding of my mental health. I know I have to live with this for the rest of my days and accept it. I've stopped asking myself "why me?" Is it hard to put these things in place to get through each day? Truthfully yeah. Is it worth it?? Absolutely. Take care pal.....

[Stranraer]

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Good on you mate... If you feel you've offended anyone, although I don't think you have, then it takes bollocks to apologise. As someone else posted, this time of year is weird. Certainly for me. From Halloween onwards my mental state and emotions take a battering. Bipolar is a bitch!! I can feel on top of the world one minute then WALLOP!! That brutal feeling in my stomach hits me and I just want to lock myself away from everyone until it passes. However, I have learned over time that's the worst thing I can do. I try like **** to stick to my wee plan as I have complete faith that it works, for me that is. I also have a wife who helps me so much. When I'm getting too high she lets me know, but she also helps me with the lows.... We all need help with this and for me that's the key. It's not sympathy or feeling sorry for me as that can make people feel like a victim. It's an understanding of my mental health. I know I have to live with this for the rest of my days and accept it. I've stopped asking myself "why me?" Is it hard to put these things in place to get through each day? Truthfully yeah. Is it worth it?? Absolutely. Take care pal.....

Thank you both, much appreciated. Went out for the first time in a good while last night and made of new friends so hopefully the confidence is building up again.

[hibsbollah]

Its a hard time of year for a lot of people. I thought this excellent thread deserves a bump.

[Pretty Boy]

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Its a hard time of year for a lot of people. I thought this excellent thread deserves a bump.

Best piece of advice I can give anyone struggling with their mental health at Christmas is don't get caught up in the hype of having to have the 'perfect Christmas'. If you had flu or broke you arm you wouldn't give a second thought to having a quieter Christmas so why should a mental health issue be different?

I've been lucky in that I've had the best part of 2 years of feeling good but I still find Christmas a bit overwhelming at times. I always try to find 15 minutes here and there just to gather my thoughts and get away from all the colour, noise etc.

[CropleyWasGod]

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Best piece of advice I can give anyone struggling with their mental health at Christmas is don't get caught up in the hype of having to have the 'perfect Christmas'. If you had flu or broke you arm you wouldn't give a second thought to having a quieter Christmas so why should a mental health issue be different?

I've been lucky in that I've had the best part of 2 years of feeling good but I still find Christmas a bit overwhelming at times. I always try to find 15 minutes here and there just to gather my thoughts and get away from all the colour, noise etc.

Yep, the pressure is ridiculous sometimes. It's one of my pet theories that "advertising land" is a major contributor to depression. In that mythical country, everything is perfect, as long as you shop at Sainsbury's, buy a Dyson, eat Ferrero Rocher and give your cat Whiskas.

Add to that the assumption that "everyone else is having a better time than me", and it's easy to see why it can feel *****.

Gathering your thoughts.... yep, I'd go for that. I practice meditation. It doesn't solve life's problems, but it sure as hell gives me a better balance to deal with them.

Oh, and Happy Solstice everyone...the light is on its way back :)