Depression and anxiety

[euansdad]

Anyone else have these problems? My old man is from the old brigade who thinks pull yourself together is the answer. Never used to be like this and time in the army hasn't helped. However, I'm not afraid to admit things and feel no stigma in being affected by this.

Just wondering if other people here have had problems associated with these issues? I personally can get low and worry about things that many people wouldn't even give much a thought about! I'm on anti depressants but don't want to be on them forever. Has there been other things that people find useful?

Cheers

[yeezus.]

I'm on Mirtazapine (45mg) having tried 3 or 4 other tablets (including Citalopram) which didn't work. I found some of the anti-anxiety tablets realy useful but the doctors keep telling me how reluctant they are to hand them out (mainly because they are a short term fix.)

[Waxy]

Excersise and a good diet do alot to help with depression and anxiety.
I have had bouts of these and it's true what the oldies say about it.If you want it to go away you can only change things yourself.
It wont go away by itself.
Dont dwell on it and make good things happen

[Betty Boop]

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Anyone else have these problems? My old man is from the old brigade who thinks pull yourself together is the answer. Never used to be like this and time in the army hasn't helped. However, I'm not afraid to admit things and feel no stigma in being affected by this. Just wondering if other people here have had problems associated with these issues? I personally can get low and worry about things that many people wouldn't even give much a thought about! I'm on anti depressants but don't want to be on them forever. Has there been other things that people find useful?Cheers

Have you thought about having a course of cognitive behavioural therapy ? http://www.patient.co.uk/health/Cogn...rapy-(CBT).htm

[Pretty Boy]

Been a few threads on here about both and It's always good to talk.

I suffered from pretty severe depression for about 18 months to 2 years and had some very dark thoughts. There was a lot of horrible stuff going on in my life at the time. Eventually I found a brilliant doctor who referred me for cognitive behavioural therapy as anti depressants absolutely terrified me and worked me up into some awful states.

On top of that I have also had bother with health anxiety. Not the usual man flu type thing but genuine unfounded fears about my health. The strange thing about health anxiety is it causes genuine physical symptoms such as nausea, pins and needles, aches and pains, stomach upset etc. I was a habitual googler of symptoms and at various times was absolutely convinced I had MS, lupus, cancer, pneumonia, lymphoma, malaria and lyme disease amongst others. Sounds ridiculous but the fears are genuine. I had all kinds of blood tests and everything was negative but that only reassured for a short time before something else cropped up. Whenever I did have anything actually wrong with me I was terrified of taking medication because I was sure I would get side effects so it was a vicious cycle. Thankfully I'm slowly but surely getting over this as well.

You'll find there are a few people on this board only too happy to share their experiences which will hopefully help you. For all the silly arguments and whatever there are a hell of a lot of very good people post on here.

[Betty Boop]

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Been a few threads on here about both and It's always good to talk.

I suffered from pretty severe depression for about 18 months to 2 years and had some very dark thoughts. There was a lot of horrible stuff going on in my life at the time. Eventually I found a brilliant doctor who referred me for cognitive behavioural therapy as anti depressants absolutely terrified me and worked me up into some awful states.

On top of that I have also had bother with health anxiety. Not the usual man flu type thing but genuine unfounded fears about my health. The strange thing about health anxiety is it causes genuine physical symptoms such as nausea, pins and needles, aches and pains, stomach upset etc. I was a habitual googler of symptoms and at various times was absolutely convinced I had MS, lupus, cancer, pneumonia, lymphoma, malaria and lyme disease amongst others. Sounds ridiculous but the fears are genuine. I had all kinds of blood tests and everything was negative but that only reassured for a short time before something else cropped up. Whenever I did have anything actually wrong with me I was terrified of taking medication because I was sure I would get side effects so it was a vicious cycle. Thankfully I'm slowly but surely getting over this as well.

You'll find there are a few people on this board only too happy to share their experiences which will hopefully help you. For all the silly arguments and whatever there are a hell of a lot of very good people post on here.

[euansdad]

Definitely mate. I enjoy this forum and there are a lot of very decent and helpful people here...... Guess that's why I'm a sad case and post so much since I joined! Aye, I have been on a waiting list for CBT for a while and it came through earlier this week that my course starts on the 6th of December so hopefully that will make a huge difference to. Thanks everyone for your help and also those who private messaged me with their thoughts

[Jack]

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Have you thought about having a course of cognitive behavioural therapy ? http://www.patient.co.uk/health/Cogn...rapy-(CBT).htm

Never looked that one up so not sure about it, I would say though stick to NHS or NHS approved sites.

[Betty Boop]

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Never looked that one up so not sure about it, I would say though stick to NHS or NHS approved sites.

Highly commended patient resource by the BMA .

[hibsbollah]

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Highly commended patient resource by the BMA .

My GP gave me a link to that site in fact. Staffed by doctors.

[deeks01]

Very interesting thread , as an infrequent poster I've never seen any of the alluded to previous threads but it's always good to get some other people's perspective and realise this state of mind (don't know if that's appropriate terminology tbh but anyway) doesn't have to be at the forefront 24/7 , which I'm sure you'll all agree it sometimes is.

Personal experience I have been struggling with depression for over 2 years. Was tried with a few things after my dad convinced me to see the GP before finding mirtazipine worked for me (it was reduced to the lowest dose a while back which didn't help and it's since been upped again) on a , hopefully , temporary basis. Unfortunately at the same time I was feeling low my health took a rather drastic decline , due to a pre-existing medical condition (Cystic Fibrosis) , and that forced to drop out of college after falling way too far behind by being stuck in hospital for an extended period. Got fixed up and my health remained stable for a while but see being unemployed and with no prospects? Doesn't help. Sat about on my arse for far too long with the occasional job interview that I never heard back from and this affected my health. Since then it's been up and down , managed to get back to college for a few months and was looking after myself , feeling as good as I had in years then I randomly got a collapsed lung (a freak of nature , just happens sometimes apparently) tried to continue with the course and failed abjectly. Since then I've done nothing , literally nothing. At the end of this period i was lying in bed almost 24/7 , hardly eating and doing zero meds. I hadn't been out the house in over a month and had contact with only those i was forced to communicate with by necessity... It looked pretty bleak. HOWEVER (and this is the point to actually take note of , not this boring back story) at this point I was re-admitted and received intensive physical treatment for my lungs etc , my mirtazipine was increased again and I talked everything through with my doctor who convinced me over time there was 'a point' in all this. Haven't looked back since to be honest. I feel healthy and my friends and family have been great recently. Culminating in a job interview on Wednesday where the lady said she would phone on Monday and probably offer me the job. I'd even been looking at voluntary work to get me off my lazy arse but an actual job suits better!

My point in all of that ^^ is at the end really , doesn't matter how bleak things seem there are always people willing to help you if you let them. Don't shut yourself away because that state of mind? It isn't permanent. If you start to feel like this talk to someone or go out and do some exercise or even just socialise , it's a vicious circle if you shut yourself off and do nothing! I'm aware how hard it is to do anything sometimes btw but it is possible no matter how ***** you feel!

Hope this little story doesn't bore you too much as I am aware how grim it is haha!

Never suffered from anxiety but @PrettyBoy I am aware how real the fear for out health is , doesn't matter how 'genuine' it is , and it can be all consuming. Well done on turning that round.

I'll keep an eye on this thread as I have a feeling it could make interesting reading to get a different perspective on these things!

[SRHibs]

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Been a few threads on here about both and It's always good to talk.

I suffered from pretty severe depression for about 18 months to 2 years and had some very dark thoughts. There was a lot of horrible stuff going on in my life at the time. Eventually I found a brilliant doctor who referred me for cognitive behavioural therapy as anti depressants absolutely terrified me and worked me up into some awful states.

On top of that I have also had bother with health anxiety. Not the usual man flu type thing but genuine unfounded fears about my health. The strange thing about health anxiety is it causes genuine physical symptoms such as nausea, pins and needles, aches and pains, stomach upset etc. I was a habitual googler of symptoms and at various times was absolutely convinced I had MS, lupus, cancer, pneumonia, lymphoma, malaria and lyme disease amongst others. Sounds ridiculous but the fears are genuine. I had all kinds of blood tests and everything was negative but that only reassured for a short time before something else cropped up. Whenever I did have anything actually wrong with me I was terrified of taking medication because I was sure I would get side effects so it was a vicious cycle. Thankfully I'm slowly but surely getting over this as well.

You'll find there are a few people on this board only too happy to share their experiences which will hopefully help you. For all the silly arguments and whatever there are a hell of a lot of very good people post on here.

I can relate to the HA anxiety completely - I also had a period when I thought I had every terminal illness under the sun. Have had some hilariously obscure illnesses in my time - ALS being the rarest, probably.

For now, I've still got various problems. BDD causes me the most issues currently. Unfortunately, help is still a distance away, after being on a waiting list for God knows how long. Have been through various different medications - Fluoxetine, Citalopram, Venlafaxine, Paroxetine etc etc. so it's clear that medicating is not the way forward, for me. Unfortunately, I feel like I'm going to be too damn stubborn to really benefit from CBT. OP, the best thing to do if you don't want to be on SSRIs, is to do excercise and keep yourself healthy.

[stoneyburn hibs]

A stupid post to most this will seem but im trying to understand it so put me right please, at what point do you know you are depressed ? stupid question maybe but i would not know but i think i would speak for quite a lot of people who are ignorant to this.
Personally i dont think i have been depressed at any point in my life, been down but my theory is give yourself a slap and get on with your life, educate me please.

[barcahibs]

Suffered all my life with mental health issues but principally social anxiety disorder - which became over time general anxiety disorder - and depression. This comes with the usual side orders of stuff like paranoia, self destructive behaviour and lashing out at friends and family

1) You're not alone. I believe something like 1 in 5 adults will suffer a mental health issue at some point in their life. Millions of people, many of them hugely successful, have been through and are going through the same thing you are. You can make it through too.

2) There is no shame in having a mental health issue. for whatever reason your brain works differently to 'normal' people (if there is such a thing - hint, there isn't!). This is not your fault, anymore than if you'd been born with or developed any other disease or illness.

3) You cannot "snap out of it", "pull yourself together", "man up", or "just get on with it". No more than people in a wheelchair should just get up and walk or people with bronchitis should quit all that wheezing. The symptoms of mental health problems aren't always visible (99% of people I know won't know I have any issue at all), this doesn't make them any less real.

4) "friends" who don't understand any of the above aren't your friends.

For me these have been the best lessons I've learned through my experience. Recently I've added one more, which to me has probably become the most important

5) This too shall pass. The way you're feeling when you're at your worst is NOT how you will always feel. Hang on, no matter how hard it seems at times. It WILL pass, its when things are at their most hopeless that your strength will pull you through - living with mental health issues doesn't mean you are weak, the fact you're living with it shows you are strong.

Two years ago I was completely housebound, couldn't leave the front door without help - and didn't trust those who were offering their help. I can remember lying on my couch crying my eyes out - all because my boiler had made a funny noise and I was going to have to phone someone to come fix it! I'd decided I was so worthless there was no point living any longer. It seems bizarre to me now looking back that I could make such a mountain out of a molehill - but that doesn't make what I was feeling at the time any less real. I held on, and through time those feelings passed.

Speak to your doctor. There's no shame, they will understand and they will treat what you're telling them seriously and with compassion (if the first doctor you go to doesn't, go back and speak to another)

For some people medication will help - it only made me worse, I lost several years of my life to stuff like seroxat, I found the side effects worse than the original illness. A friend of mine has been taking antidepressants for over ten years and they've allowed her to live a 'normal' life. Speak to your doctor, discuss the options, if one med doesn't work then it could be worth trying another. There are other meds that can help you through a short term fix if things get really bad.

I've been through a couple of courses of Cognitive Behavioural Therapy (CBT, mentioned by Betty Boop above). Its a recognised treatment method - and these days is considered by many as the 'go to' option. Its one of these things where you have to be in the right frame of mind to do it, you have to want to change. My first course I wasn't in the right place and it failed, I tried again two years and (touch wood!) its holding this time.

Its all about examining why your mind works the way it does, what causes those damaging thoughts and anxieties, what specific things trigger them, and how you can change your ways of thinking to combat it.
The theory is that thought processes are formed by habit. At some point in your life your brain came up with these thought processes as a defense mechanism and over time thinking like that became a habit - long past the time when they were ever helpful. Via various exercises you're taught how to recognise this and slowly train your brain to think in a different way. Its amazing what you find when you begin to examine yourself in this way - I found that I'm incredibly prone to "mind reading" (assuming you know what other people are thinking) and "catastrophising" (assuming the worst possible outcome will come true in any situation) amongst others. If you discover you're doing any of these you can do little 'experiments' to see if these ways of thinking are true or are helpful.
Eventually you might move onto to trying to work out what your "core beliefs" are, why you feel the way you do (for me this came down to a core belief that I'm a worthless human being which I still sort of believe to be honest )
Its hard work and it takes time but I've found it really helpful. Be aware that for many it'll be something you'll have ot work on all your life. Relapses are common, they aren't permanent.

Other helpful things I've found are things like establishing routines (eating at the same time every day, going to bed and getting up at set times), filling my day with tasks to keep my mind and body busy. Finding a goal in life and work towards it, even if at first this was just something daft like working up to going out to the shops on my own or phoning a friend. Going outdoors and engaging with nature has helped me too - I'm not in Edinburgh but I know there are mental health groups there that do things like go out and spend the day with the Council countryside rangers helping them out.

If you feel up to it you can also be introduced to things like graded exposure to your fears (kind of like when people that are afraid of spiders go to the zoo to handle a tarantula), group sessions, etc etc. I didn't find either of those things helpful but others will.

The answer for most people will probably lie in a mixture of all the things above.

Finally, do what you're doing right here, talk about it. You'll find more people will understand and will want to help than you can imagine. Those that don't want to help or put you down aren't worth your thoughts. Don't hide from it or feel you have to hide it from others (though you can hide it from others if you like, I do!).

Face it, look it in the eye and tell it "wha's in cherge here?"

[barcahibs]

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A stupid post to most this will seem but im trying to understand it so put me right please, at what point do you know you are depressed ? stupid question maybe but i would not know but i think i would speak for quite a lot of people who are ignorant to this.
Personally i dont think i have been depressed at any point in my life, been down but my theory is give yourself a slap and get on with your life, educate me please.

One of the problems with depression as an illness is that it uses a word thats in common every day use - and which usually means "a bit sad"

Its one of those things where if you ever experience true depression (and I'm not saying you have or haven't) you'll know it.

I think that technically you have to present symptoms of depression for a consecutive period of more than two weeks and for this to have happened more than once? There's a sort of sheet thing the GP gets you to fill in if you go into talk about depression, some of the symptoms I remember are things like constant feelings of guilt or worthlessness, paranoia, fatigue, sleeping far too much or too little, inability to concentrate, inability to feel happiness or take pleasure in anything, recurring thoughts of suicide.

Imagine spending a fortnight (and for most people much more than a fortnight) thinking, every hour of every day, that you're a worthless human being and the world would be a better place if you weren't in it. Imagine thats all you can think about, over and over again, that no-one can convince you otherwise. For many people that's living with depression.

For most people with clinical depression they can't just give themselves a slap and get on with it. There's an actual physical chemical problem in their brain - they can no more snap out of it than someone with a broken leg can just tell it fuse itself together again.

[Hiber-nation]

Best thread I have read on here for some time - thanks for sharing folks.

[euansdad]

Thanks for sharing. Was a bit nervous about starting this thread but glad I did. Think it does help to share experiences.

[hibsbollah]

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A stupid post to most this will seem but im trying to understand it so put me right please, at what point do you know you are depressed ? stupid question maybe but i would not know but i think i would speak for quite a lot of people who are ignorant to this.
Personally i dont think i have been depressed at any point in my life, been down but my theory is give yourself a slap and get on with your life, educate me please.

Its not a stupid post at all, i think a lot of people find it hard to understand depression.

The best way to get your head round it is to imagine it as a virus the same as flu. Depression the illness and depression the feeling of sadness are totally different things. (Depression' is probably the worst named illness in the world of medicine). A lot of people who have depression can be ill for months, cant get out of bed, have no energy, then get diagnosed and refuse to believe the diagnosis. They just assumed it was a virus, and in many cases have happy, successful lives and have no good reason (as they see it) to be depressed.

I think its brilliant so many posters have spoken so openly about it on this thread, good on all of you

[Phil D. Rolls]

In my experience, medication is a great way to give you the kick on to deal with the source of your problems. I ended up getting Fluoxetine a few years back. The lift I got from it was enough to allow me to take positive steps to change my life.

Since then, I have realised that depression is something I had lived with for a long time. I still get low, but by being able to spot what is going on, I have more chance of not slipping into depression, which is a hideous, crippling illness.

I view it in much the same way as physical illness like diabetes. It is something I live with, and I try to control the illness, rather than let it control me. The hardest thing for a person with depression to accept is that there is hope and they will get better - the very nature of it means that you take a pessimistic outlook on life.

When I am low now, I try to remind myself that I have been here before, and things will change. If you are suffering then don't hesitate to speak to your GP. Try and describe your symptoms: how are you sleeping; what is your appetite like; are you avoiding people that you like; do you feel like life is not living. There are also many great sources of advice on the net (as well as some dodgy ones). Here's a couple of links:

http://www.samh.org.uk/
http://www.moodcafe.co.uk/

Even looking at these means you are acknowledging your problems, and you have made a big step. One last thing, if you are drinking too much (as I was) try and cut back, and build towards a couple of days of sobriety - I also have serious doubts about weed. You'll be amazed how things come into focus, and also what a liar alcohol is.

Good luck, it's a long road, but you can get better. Sleep and nutrition are massive factors. One last thing, I found that just talking to someone made me feel a whole lot better.

I hope that's helpful, the rest is up to you.

[LeighLoyal]

Anxiety sometimes affects me, the fight or flight thing that builds up adrenaline and constricts the arteries, can cause chest pains and palps. If you don't know what it is it can feel like a heart problem which just adds to the panic and then you get a full blown attack. Stupid really. Getting rid of it is a Labrador dog

[stoneyburn hibs]

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In my experience, medication is a great way to give you the kick on to deal with the source of your problems. I ended up getting Fluoxetine a few years back. The lift I got from it was enough to allow me to take positive steps to change my life.

Since then, I have realised that depression is something I had lived with for a long time. I still get low, but by being able to spot what is going on, I have more chance of not slipping into depression, which is a hideous, crippling illness.

I view it in much the same way as physical illness like diabetes. It is something I live with, and I try to control the illness, rather than let it control me. The hardest thing for a person with depression to accept is that there is hope and they will get better - the very nature of it means that you take a pessimistic outlook on life.

When I am low now, I try to remind myself that I have been here before, and things will change. If you are suffering then don't hesitate to speak to your GP. Try and describe your symptoms: how are you sleeping; what is your appetite like; are you avoiding people that you like; do you feel like life is not living. There are also many great sources of advice on the net (as well as some dodgy ones). Here's a couple of links:

http://www.samh.org.uk/
http://www.moodcafe.co.uk/

Even looking at these means you are acknowledging your problems, and you have made a big step. One last thing, if you are drinking too much (as I was) try and cut back, and build towards a couple of days of sobriety - I also have serious doubts about weed. You'll be amazed how things come into focus, and also what a liar alcohol is.

Good luck, it's a long road, but you can get better. Sleep and nutrition are massive factors. One last thing, I found that just talking to someone made me feel a whole lot better.

I hope that's helpful, the rest is up to you.

Your reply and Bollah's reply were really insightful, maybe im just a car crash waiting to happen, i smoke about 20 a day , work for myself (building trade), never drink on a school night but drink to excess on a friday and saturday,my diet is good at home but terrible whilst at work , burger vans and pies for lunch, the reason for me saying all of that- is that is generally that is my life, sometimes i go for weeks without being paid and that has at times been coupled with lack of work, i find myself getting down about it and angry, is that a form of depression/life or me being a phud, or both ?

[Phil D. Rolls]

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Your reply and Bollah's reply were really insightful, maybe im just a car crash waiting to happen, i smoke about 20 a day , work for myself (building trade), never drink on a school night but drink to excess on a friday and saturday,my diet is good at home but terrible whilst at work , burger vans and pies for lunch, the reason for me saying all of that- is that is generally that is my life, sometimes i go for weeks without being paid and that has at times been coupled with lack of work, i find myself getting down about it and angry, is that a form of depression/life or me being a phud, or both ?

One thing I can definitely say is you are not a phud.

[Phil D. Rolls]

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A stupid post to most this will seem but im trying to understand it so put me right please, at what point do you know you are depressed ? stupid question maybe but i would not know but i think i would speak for quite a lot of people who are ignorant to this.
Personally i dont think i have been depressed at any point in my life, been down but my theory is give yourself a slap and get on with your life, educate me please.

Psychiatrists define depression here:

http://www.mental-health-today.com/dep/dsm.htm

Others working in the field would see it as anything that stops you achieving full enjoyment of life. Psychiatrists use the tick list, but really illness is a barrier that is getting in the way of you being the person you want to be.

[MSK]

I suffered depression for years (early 30 onwards) ...chemical "restraint" didnt help in the slightest ..the worse I felt, the more they upped my dosage ..I was merely a guinae pig for drug companies..Xeroxat (Paroxatine) ****ed my head & made me suicidal ..powerful mind bending drug ...

Went cold turkey, spoke to the right people (Filled Roll's is bang on) & never looked back ..

[Phil D. Rolls]

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One of the problems with depression as an illness is that it uses a word thats in common every day use - and which usually means "a bit sad"

Its one of those things where if you ever experience true depression (and I'm not saying you have or haven't) you'll know it.

I think that technically you have to present symptoms of depression for a consecutive period of more than two weeks and for this to have happened more than once? There's a sort of sheet thing the GP gets you to fill in if you go into talk about depression, some of the symptoms I remember are things like constant feelings of guilt or worthlessness, paranoia, fatigue, sleeping far too much or too little, inability to concentrate, inability to feel happiness or take pleasure in anything, recurring thoughts of suicide.

Imagine spending a fortnight (and for most people much more than a fortnight) thinking, every hour of every day, that you're a worthless human being and the world would be a better place if you weren't in it. Imagine thats all you can think about, over and over again, that no-one can convince you otherwise. For many people that's living with depression.

For most people with clinical depression they can't just give themselves a slap and get on with it. There's an actual physical chemical problem in their brain - they can no more snap out of it than someone with a broken leg can just tell it fuse itself together again.

Always remember in my training, and adult nurse said "why do people say they are a wee bit depressed? You don't go around saying you're a wee bit arthritic, or a wee bit hypoglaecemic. You don't get a wee bit depressed, you get crippled so you don't have the confidence to go to the shops; you need to get pished or stoned every night because you can't face waking up. Depression is a debilitating illness, that some people fight for longer than they should.

[MSK]

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Always remember in my training, and adult nurse said "why do people say they are a wee bit depressed? You don't go around saying you're a wee bit arthritic, or a wee bit hypoglaecemic. You don't get a wee bit depressed, you get crippled so you don't have the confidence to go to the shops; you need to get pished or stoned every night because you can't face waking up. Depression is a debilitating illness, that some people fight for longer than they should.

Dont you think the "Adult Nurse" was a bit patronising ..?

Depression can work in stages, you can feel a " wee bit" depressed ..you can feel a "wee bit" no well ..a "wee bit" sore ....a "wee bit" down, a "wee bit" on edge ..

You can get a "wee bit" depressed ...thats the bit between top & middle ...before you hit rock bottom ..

[Phil D. Rolls]

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So sweet Sir ..so sweet ..

Had a lot of time for that lecturer, an old school general nurse, who actually "got it". If you'd asked her what "Care With Compassion" is, she'd have turned round and said - "it's what I'm employed to do".

[CropleyWasGod]

This thread is so encouraging.

I have been a long-term sufferer, probably 15 years.

It's clear that, as society moves on, we are becoming more willing to talk about issues like depression. The fact that there are other sufferers, and that we are not alone, is so comforting.

I will add my tuppence worth on things that have helped me. Before that, though, I had a "lightbulb moment" a few years ago. That was the realisation that, like HIV and cancer, there is no cure. The best we can hope for is management. That was a pivotal moment for me.... rather than running away from it, I started to embrace my illness as part of myself. As a result, it has been easier to deal with. It will never go away, but it can be managed.

My toolbox:-

Diet
Exercise
Medication
Meditation
Herbal supplements.... Vitamin D, Omega-3, 5-HTP
Human contact
Sense of humour
Light box
Crap telly
Action on Depression and their self-help groups

If anyone wants to talk about any of this stuff (by IM, if you want), I'm happy to talk.

[MSK]

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Had a lot of time for that lecturer, an old school general nurse, who actually "got it". If you'd asked her what "Care With Compassion" is, she'd have turned round and said - "it's what I'm employed to do".

Sorry FR....I was thinking of a more patronising Nurse still in practice ..Sweet Sweet was her passing word ..she thought depression was all "in the mind" ..

[Phil D. Rolls]

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Sorry FR....I was thinking of a more patronising Nurse still in practice ..Sweet Sweet was her passing word ..she thought depression was all "in the mind" ..

She didn't get it. Al she had to do was let the boys watch the World Series on the radio.