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  1. #751
    @hibs.net private member CropleyWasGod's Avatar
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    So the drugs do work, apparently.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-43143889

    Hibs.net survey?


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  3. #752
    Quote Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod View Post
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    So the drugs do work, apparently.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-43143889

    Hibs.net survey?
    Iíve just gone back on amitriptyline. Even though I donít feel particularly stressed or anxious I canít seem to disengage my brain if anything Iím anxious about being anxious.

    Iíve used it before with no major issues in a low dose hoping it will help me relax a bit as my muscles are aching and Iíve been waking up at times with clenched fists even my tongue feels tense!

    Good I see it supposed to be one of the better ones!

  4. #753
    @hibs.net private member CropleyWasGod's Avatar
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    My particular grouch with this survey is that there is a very narrow question being set, ie "do they ease depression?".

    Other questions which need to be addressed are:-

    To what extent do the side-effects affect one's life? (in my case, increased cholesterol made it a risk not worth taking)

    To what extent are other, non-pharmacological, treatments more or less successful?

    That said, the fact that the media has been full of this survey this morning is very welcome. People feeling comfortable enough (as on here) to tell their stories can only be a good thing. Moan the nutters....

  5. #754
    Coaching Staff stu in nottingham's Avatar
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    I was quite surprised to hear a Professor on the radio this morning say something like, 'that's it, we can now close the book on whether anti-depressant medication is effective'.

    Defer to this gent's knowledge but for me that is not how science and research works. It's only a part of the body of knowledge on the subject and not definitive forever and ever. Knowledge becomes challenged, and discredited all the time.

    My initial thoughts are that I'm a bit concerned that people will buy into what, in fairness on the exterior, looks like a convincing piece of research and see that as the easy answer. It is never as simple as that, much though we would like it to be.

  6. #755
    Coaching Staff Sylar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stu in nottingham View Post
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    I was quite surprised to hear a Professor on the radio this morning say something like, 'that's it, we can now close the book on whether anti-depressant medication is effective'.

    Defer to this gent's knowledge but for me that is not how science and research works. It's only a part of the body of knowledge on the subject and not definitive forever and ever. Knowledge becomes challenged, and discredited all the time.

    My initial thoughts are that I'm a bit concerned that people will buy into what, in fairness on the exterior, looks like a convincing piece of research and see that as the easy answer. It is never as simple as that, much though we would like it to be.
    There's the odd publication out there that "debunks" climate change. Point being, big declarations and standpoints require on pretty much universal consensus, and one piece of research merely contributes to part of a wider chain of evidence, oftentimes being proven to be nonsense, or hugely flawed.

    If he's genuinely suggesting one test closes the book on a debate, he should be stripped of his professorship and seriously challenged by his peers, and employers.

  7. #756
    Coaching Staff stu in nottingham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sylar View Post
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    There's the odd publication out there that "debunks" climate change. Point being, big declarations and standpoints require on pretty much universal consensus, and one piece of research merely contributes to part of a wider chain of evidence, oftentimes being proven to be nonsense, or hugely flawed.
    Yes indeed - exactly my point. That was why I was slightly taken back at his words.

  8. #757
    @hibs.net private member Dalianwanda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod View Post
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    So the drugs do work, apparently.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-43143889

    Hibs.net survey?
    Itís a joke!? Yes the can ease the emotion & numb thinking but they do nothing to change the persons relationship with thought and emotion which creates depressive thinking patterns. Depression/anxiety can only be overcome by a change of thought, nothing more nothing less. I wonder who sponsored the research?

  9. #758
    @hibs.net private member CropleyWasGod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dalianwanda View Post
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    Itís a joke!? Yes the can ease the emotion & numb thinking but they do nothing to change the persons relationship with thought and emotion which creates depressive thinking patterns. Depression/anxiety can only be overcome by a change of thought, nothing more nothing less. I wonder who sponsored the research?
    To be fair to the author of the study, he did say this, although you have to search for it:-

    "Medication should always be considered alongside other options, such as psychological therapies, where these are available,"

    On the "sponsorship" question, he also said this:-

    "Importantly, the paper analyses unpublished data held by pharmaceutical companies, and shows that the funding of studies by these companies does not influence the result, thus confirming that the clinical usefulness of these drugs is not affected by pharma-sponsored spin."

  10. #759
    @hibs.net private member Dalianwanda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod View Post
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    To be fair to the author of the study, he did say this, although you have to search for it:-

    "Medication should always be considered alongside other options, such as psychological therapies, where these are available,"

    On the "sponsorship" question, he also said this:-

    "Importantly, the paper analyses unpublished data held by pharmaceutical companies, and shows that the funding of studies by these companies does not influence the result, thus confirming that the clinical usefulness of these drugs is not affected by pharma-sponsored spin."
    With any of my clients I would never discourage the use of them, if thats whats prescribed go with them.

    Its when they talk about reducing the symptoms it really annoys me. Its not the symptoms they should be working on (Im sure you know all this). Its like scooping the froth off a boiling pan. You keep scooping but if the pans still on the heat its gonna keep boiling.

    (as I type this I feel a bit of a hypocrite as Im sometimes sponsored by a pharma company to go out and speak to GPs/Drs/anaesthetist ect about the relationship we have with our thoughts & how it can help patient recovery)
    Last edited by Dalianwanda; 23-02-2018 at 09:51 AM.

  11. #760
    @hibs.net private member CropleyWasGod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dalianwanda View Post
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    With any of my clients I would never discourage the use of them, if thats whats prescribed go with them.

    Its when they talk about reducing the symptoms it really annoys me. Its not the symptoms they should be analysing (Im sure you know all this). Its like scooping the froth off a boiling pan. You keep scooping but if the pans still on the heat its gonna keep boiling.

    (as I type this I feel a bit of a hypocrite as Im sometimes sponsored by a pharma company to go out and speak to GPs/Drs/anaesthetist ect about the relationship we have with our thoughts & how it can help patient recovery)
    Totally agree with you, of course... but, probably like you, it's the "headline culture" that annoys me here. "The drugs work", so let's not bother with any expensive quackery.

  12. #761
    @hibs.net private member Dalianwanda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod View Post
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    Totally agree with you, of course... but, probably like you, it's the "headline culture" that annoys me here. "The drugs work", so let's not bother with any expensive quackery.
    On a positive, for some people the headline might act as a placebo effect. Believing they will work could have a positive effect. It still keeps them looking externally for solutions though.

  13. #762
    Testimonial Due Greenworld's Avatar
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    I have tried various councilling methods over the years which have been very good but only lasted maybe a year before I relapsed.
    Drastic action from me was leaving the work place ..removing myself from large groups and generally deciding that whatever triggered my anxiety I was not going to do again.
    Now that's all good but not really practical so I started taking citalopram . Now for me this was a marked change in my life I felt in control and could finally move start work and be confident.
    I was wrong ..
    they did help a lot but I still needed to address and cut out the triggers along with the drugs life is good but not everyone can do what I did it's Drastic but I'm here and enjoying life

    Sent from my SM-G903F using Tapatalk

  14. #763
    @hibs.net private member wpj's Avatar
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    Been an awful couple of months with illness, bereavement and divorce, don't just rain eh! Still doing what I can to keep the head above water

  15. #764
    Quote Originally Posted by wpj View Post
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    Been an awful couple of months with illness, bereavement and divorce, don't just rain eh! Still doing what I can to keep the head above water
    Hopefully things get better.

    Trying to keep my anxiety under control we had an attempted break in last week while we slept so constantly on edge.

  16. #765
    @hibs.net private member barcahibs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod View Post
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    So the drugs do work, apparently.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-43143889

    Hibs.net survey?
    As usual with media stories on anti depressants i don't think it's as simple as they've made it out. I do an ocassional mental health blog and touched on this - along with the Compassionate Frome Project

    https://cumbernauldlivinglandscape.o...sion-lots-tea/
    Last edited by barcahibs; 07-03-2018 at 08:45 PM.

  17. #766
    Coaching Staff Betty Boop's Avatar
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    Anybody tried Magnesium to lift their mood ? I've been taking it for a few months now,and and feel a lot better,

  18. #767
    Coaching Staff hibsbollah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod View Post
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    So the drugs do work, apparently.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-43143889

    Hibs.net survey?
    Im flabbergasted by that report. The message the BBC are giving is so simplified as to be dangerous to public health.

    In the 'drugs that are most effective' column they have included paroxetine ie-paxil, or seroxat. I was put on seroxat a number of years ago and i had a serious reaction to it, it was far worse than the depression i was given it for. Ive spoken to health professionals and read journals and its not well thought of in general, hence the fact they dont prescribe it for adolescents anymore. IIRC someone else on here also went through hell with it. GSK allegedly knew about the issues and covered them up. But i know it HAS worked for some people. The drug that eventually did sort me out IS also on the 'effective list', its still quite rarely prescribed because its expensive. But i wouldnt consider 'recommending' it to anyone, just because I know from experience that drug A can be a disaster for one person and a godsend for another. Its just stupid to try to make a 'league table' of good uns and bad uns.

  19. #768
    Quote Originally Posted by Betty Boop View Post
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    Anybody tried Magnesium to lift their mood ? I've been taking it for a few months now,and and feel a lot better,
    I take it along with St Johns wort not sure it helps my mood but I certainly sleep better.

  20. #769
    Coaching Staff One Day Soon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Betty Boop View Post
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    Anybody tried Magnesium to lift their mood ? I've been taking it for a few months now,and and feel a lot better,
    I have, in two week bursts every so often. Certainly felt less tired, more energetic, which in itself probably helped to lift mood. I now take Vitamin D supplements all year round. There's no question in my mind that if I slip at all on the big three of sleep, regular eating and regular exercise i'm asking for trouble.

  21. #770
    @hibs.net private member Captain Trips's Avatar
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    I have depression and take Citalopram, mine is more over analysing things and deciding on the worst outcome.

    Often we are all wrong when we worried about something but it's that one time you were right that justifies it all. I have to say my confidence boosted and I do feel better.
    If I choose to revert back to Carlsberg it will have to be The Carlsberg

  22. #771
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dalianwanda View Post
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    With any of my clients I would never discourage the use of them, if thats whats prescribed go with them.

    Its when they talk about reducing the symptoms it really annoys me. Its not the symptoms they should be working on (Im sure you know all this). Its like scooping the froth off a boiling pan. You keep scooping but if the pans still on the heat its gonna keep boiling.

    (as I type this I feel a bit of a hypocrite as Im sometimes sponsored by a pharma company to go out and speak to GPs/Drs/anaesthetist ect about the relationship we have with our thoughts & how it can help patient recovery)
    Medications only deal with the symptoms - finding the cause, which for me, was found going right back to my early childhood (the fear of being abandoned and rejected by my mother). Through Cognitive Analytical Therapy [CAT] and weekly attendance of Al-anon meetings have guided me into making crucial life changes to recover.

    Today, I still have moments when I feel anxious - usually at a time when I worry about how someone is going to feel about what I am going to change about myself - then I say to myself that I need to do whats best for me. The anxiety goes and my mind is clear.

    Meditation is great too for me. I got a copy of a book by Louise Hay called "You Can Heal Your Life". The exercises and meditations she has in that book have given me the freedom to be true to myself which has took the depression away.

    Great thread and thanks to eveyone who has posted for their honesty and strength. The truth sets us free!

  23. #772
    @hibs.net private member wpj's Avatar
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    Bumping this thread after reading the Keatings thread on the MB. Been a real help for me and others

  24. #773
    Testimonial Due AgentDaleCooper's Avatar
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    Just a thought, but might it be worth adding OCD into the title? It's a very misunderstood condition, and very under-diagnosed as a result. It is also absolutely brutal, particularly the intrusive thoughts. I was completely floored by it 3 years ago, but am pretty much recovered after going tbrough psychiatry, psychology and ocupational health.

    en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primarily_obsessional_obsessive_compulsive_disorde r

  25. #774
    Testimonial Due hibby6270's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wpj View Post
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    Bumping this thread after reading the Keatings thread on the MB. Been a real help for me and others
    Just read the article about Keatings in todayís Sunday Mail. My heart genuinely goes out to him.
    Heís been in such a bad place mentally in the last 12-15 months by the sound of it. Itís so difficult to come to terms with. Being unable to open up and speak to a wider circle of family/friends does regrettably make the situation worse although you just donít realise that at the time.

    It was refreshing to read that he was able to confide in Jason Cummings about how he was feeling. Given Jasonís demeanour, heís probably not the first person youíd think about to open up to. Good on you Jason!!

    What isnít so clear from the article is whether or not he said anything during his time with us. Although Neil is mentioned as having gone through similar, it doesnít say if Neil or the club were aware or helped James in any way. Iíd like to think they would have but as I said earlier, speaking up about it ďin the workplaceĒ can be seen by the individual affected as a sign of weakness and possible thoughts that his career could be affected.

    So glad he has now opened up. Itís the first step to recovery and very reassuring that United are fully behind him.

  26. #775
    Testimonial Due SRHibs's Avatar
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    Medications are a bit rubbish TBH. Iíve become so reliant on them which is sad because they tend to dilute every emotion you feel. Iíll never feel like crying on them, conversely Iíll never have a really great laugh at something. I will find things funny but any reaction almost feels like it has to be forced.

    I did try coming off of them (albeit a bit too hastily) and after the initial 2 days of feeling positive, I started to feel my old demons coming back. Have started a slow taper in another attempt to get clean.

    For anyone considering medication, they definitely can be helpful, however depending on the severity of your illness Iíd look to exhaust other options first.

  27. #776
    Testimonial Due LustForLeith's Avatar
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    Has anyone gone through this..?

    I did my best to battle depression with the aid of medication and support groups.

    Now I feel fine, like almost back to normal.

    But before where I really didnít care what happened now itís a complete turnaround and Iím in such a good mood Iím worried about what will happen to me and/or love ones?

    Itís like Iíve gone from one end to the other!

  28. #777
    @hibs.net private member CropleyWasGod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LustForLeith View Post
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    Has anyone gone through this..?

    I did my best to battle depression with the aid of medication and support groups.

    Now I feel fine, like almost back to normal.

    But before where I really didnít care what happened now itís a complete turnaround and Iím in such a good mood Iím worried about what will happen to me and/or love ones?

    Itís like Iíve gone from one end to the other!
    I'd celebrate the fact that you can now feel for others, rather than being stuck in that rut of battling your own issues. That's a big step forward IMO.

    Sent from my SM-A510F using Tapatalk

  29. #778
    Testimonial Due SRHibs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LustForLeith View Post
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    Has anyone gone through this..?

    I did my best to battle depression with the aid of medication and support groups.

    Now I feel fine, like almost back to normal.

    But before where I really didnít care what happened now itís a complete turnaround and Iím in such a good mood Iím worried about what will happen to me and/or love ones?

    Itís like Iíve gone from one end to the other!

    Yeah, I was worried I was bipolar a few months ago; was in such a good mood for weeks that I was at the point of self-diagnosing a manic episode. Turns out thatís just what it feels like to be in a good mood!

  30. #779
    Testimonial Due LustForLeith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SRHibs View Post
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    Yeah, I was worried I was bipolar a few months ago; was in such a good mood for weeks that I was at the point of self-diagnosing a manic episode. Turns out thatís just what it feels like to be in a good mood!
    Ha!

    Itís just weird that itís gone from one extreme to the next. The other extreme being for instant getting emotional when I left an empty house after rlbeingbiff with the kids at Easter. Which is weird. So know I know Iím in a better place Iím worried about things happening before they happen. Which was what it was like before.

    But now Iím in a good mood itís still being pessimistic but more so that I know the value of loved ones and even myself to others that Iím worried about that.

    This makes a lot more sense in my head! Honest!

  31. #780
    Testimonial Due LustForLeith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod View Post
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    I'd celebrate the fact that you can now feel for others, rather than being stuck in that rut of battling your own issues. That's a big step forward IMO.

    Sent from my SM-A510F using Tapatalk
    Definitely.

    Before I didnít care about others. Now I think Incaretoo much.

    How to I change my user name to Goldielocks?!

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