The Fenlon Debate

[GraniteCityHibs]

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Some people need to have a word with themselves, killie and county were beaten last night it happens ,it honestly seems like people expect too much too soon because we've signed a few players , constant negativity on this site

:fenlonto the neggy squad!!

[blackpoolhibs]

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Some people need to have a word with themselves, killie and county were beaten last night it happens ,it honestly seems like people expect too much too soon because we've signed a few players , constant negativity on this site

What a huge pile of steaming sheite, this site has been very positive over the last 3 weeks. We took 7 points from 9, and had done very well.

Although with this being Hibs we are talking about, they have to make sure any positivity is well and truly hammered into the ground, and right on time they never disappoint.

Unless of course last night was a good thing, and something we should all be happy about?

[silverhibee]

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Agreed.

Not to mention his tactics in the Cup Final.

Regardless, the players must shoulder most of the blame. I wasn't there tonight but the reports from those that were, together with the result would suggest the players performed poorly. Now the conundrum for me is - are they just ****** or were they given crap tactics and instructions?

Am going to say that the manager got it wrong like he did in the final, should have been the same team that won 2-0 on Saturday that started last night, unless we had injuries but i haven't heard anything or read that there were players struggling to make the game, even though i have this nagging feeling that maybe McPake may have done something to his back on Saturday when he landed awkwardly on it that he wasn't even on the bench last night.

Like you J i wasn't at the game either, Sparky missed a couple of sitters that if he scored may have changed the game, but from what i heard from the radio QOTS missed a couple of good chances too, by all accounts they deserved to win the game from what we have heard, billy Doodds must have reminded us about 20 times that they were worthy winners and how poor Hibs were, you know how it goes on open all mics when Hibs get beat, the giggles in the background, smugness when talking about how bad we were from the yam bbc crew.

Your conundrum, , yes most are ****** and our manager has shown in the past that he can get his tactics wrong at the most important games, Final and last night is not good enough, we were told after a Q&A with Don Rod that we would never roll over and be bullied by the yams again or something like that, yet we get pumped by QOTS from the 2nd division and at the first round we are out of the cup at the first game. Joke.

The manager quite rightly put his hands up and said he got it wrong and he was to blame for the defeat up against D. Utd in our first game, i don't think he will be to quick to say the same again about last night that he got it wrong by making to many changes, he will blame the players for this one, he will know the folk upstairs won't be happy at being knocked out of the cup in the first round and Hibs losing out to a good cup run and some much needed money now not coming in to the club.

[scott_hfc1875]

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What a huge pile of steaming sheite, this site has been very positive over the last 3 weeks. We took 7 points from 9, and had done very well.

Although with this being Hibs we are talking about, they have to make sure any positivity is well and truly hammered into the ground, and right on time they never disappoint.

Unless of course last night was a good thing, and something we should all be happy about?

of course its not but upsets happen all the time that's football , it just seems like we're one step away from the fenlon out stuff already

[blackpoolhibs]

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of course its not but upsets happen all the time that's football , it just seems like we're one step away from the fenlon out stuff already

Not from me you are not, but we treated the supporters badly last night those who went and those who did not. They are not interested in another upset in the history of Hibernian, just why we have witnessed another one?

[cabbageandribs1875]

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Some people need to have a word with themselves, killie and county were beaten last night it happens ,it honestly seems like people expect too much too soon because we've signed a few players , constant negativity on this site

Ross co made nine changes to their team and got exactly what they deserved, killie had five players out with injury, we didn't have any injuries and should have played a settled team, even big teams like barcelona/Man U/Hertz team performances suffer to an extent if their team is tinkered with too much

[patlowe]

Firstly, Queen of the South deserve a bit of credit here. They've started the season incredibly well and it may be that they are destined for a higher level than they are currently playing.

However, putting out a weakened side was madness when we are so desperate to build up a bit of momentum and confidence. I honestly think PF may have put out that team in an attempt to send a message to the board.

[scott_hfc1875]

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Not from me you are not, but we treated the supporters badly last night those who went and those who did not. They are not interested in another upset in the history of Hibernian, just why we have witnessed another one?

mostly because we're still stuck with a few players who aren't good enough , rome wasn't built in a day its going to take time to have a full squad of capable players, we just need to give the manager that time

[Captain Trips]

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of course its not but upsets happen all the time that's football , it just seems like we're one step away from the fenlon out stuff already

Shocks do happen but when you pick players in key areas that have failed to deliver then imo it is less of A shock. PF is to me looking like Calderwood the 2nd. He has done little to ease doubts that have been in place since January.

[silverhibee]

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So, 14 players is a lack of investment is it? What exactly do you expect?!

And in that time how many players have left the club.

[500miles]

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And in that time how many players have left the club.

That doesn't matter. The squad was bloated as things were, and all teams have had to cut the size of the first team.

[silverhibee]

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Yes PF made changes tonight, but that team should have been more than enough to see us through.....Pity the 10 starting outfield players and 3 subs were absolutely rank rotten.........Disgusted by tonight....

But why did he feel the need to make 4 changes to the team that won on Saturday and the week before that, he can't use the excuse that players need resting, we have only played a handful of games since the season started, he should have played and kept the team that started on Saturday for last night, they were just starting to gel a bit and the manager goes and makes 4 changes, keep the winning team on the park and let them get used to each other and get used to winning games instead of chopping the team about for what was always going to be a tricky tie for us, tough on the fringe players if they are not getting a game because the team that played in the last two games won them and are doing well and should have kept there places for last nights game.

So to me the manager got it wrong last night, but he won't put his hands up for this defeat that's for sure.

[Hibs7]

Ehm did you see the team Liverpool put out against the Jumbos last week, they still managed to win. Not exactly the same but similar.

[silverhibee]

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Maybe, maybe not. This cup tie was also the last match before the transfer window closes, I do wonder if that had something to do with the selection tonight?

I also think PF needs to improve, but it would be churlish to deny the very real signs of progress he has made. He's our manager, I think all we can do is back him and hope it comes good.

I F***ing hope not, he can go play Russian roulette somewhere else if he thought last night was the right night to prove a point to the board about needing players, if that's what you meant.

[silverhibee]

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Changing the manager again isn't the answer. I think Fenlon has brought in the right characters and I think our starting 11 is miles better than 12 months ago.

What is obvious is we don't have depth, we needed to give some players some competitive game time as we won't go through the season using just 14 players and this was his best opportunity to do that.

Maybe so many changes was a mistake however he's already shown he can learn from his mistakes.

And they should have all started last night.

[silverhibee]

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He didn't say we would win the cup, he said we can win the cup.
http://www.scotsman.com/edinburgh-ev...-cup-1-2492469

Well we cannie now.

[JimBHibees]

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But why did he feel the need to make 4 changes to the team that won on Saturday and the week before that, he can't use the excuse that players need resting, we have only played a handful of games since the season started, he should have played and kept the team that started on Saturday for last night, they were just starting to gel a bit and the manager goes and makes 4 changes, keep the winning team on the park and let them get used to each other and get used to winning games instead of chopping the team about for what was always going to be a tricky tie for us, tough on the fringe players if they are not getting a game because the team that played in the last two games won them and are doing well and should have kept there places for last nights game.

So to me the manager got it wrong last night, but he won't put his hands up for this defeat that's for sure.

I agree way too many if McPake had a knock we should have kept the same defence as Saturday with SOH in. Only other change I could understand was maybe putting another forward as happened with Kuqi. For Booth and Kujabi to be played down the same side along with SOH seems to be crazy. This of course is all in hindsight and on another day we probably would have won with that team however QOS were in good form and we should have known they would have been well up for it. It was a gamble too far IMO.

The more I think about it the more is sounds like the inclusion of SOH, Booth and Kujabi was to try and sell them before Friday. If that is the case PF deserves all the flak for yesterday.

[Dashing Bob S]

It would probably be the worst ever decision to change managers now, and we've made some terrible ones in the last few years. Yes, the QOS result and performance were poor and unacceptable, but over the piece we have made improvement this season. Let's build on that but be prepared to take the odd slap on the way. We're not world beaters - yet.

(Did you enjoy that dramatic, but optimistic conclusion there?)

[JimBHibees]

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I F***ing hope not, he can go play Russian roulette somewhere else if he thought last night was the right night to prove a point to the board about needing players, if that's what you meant.

May have also been an attempt to sell players.

[silverhibee]

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To be honest, it's not even positivity, it's reality.

If we keep emptying managers after 2-3 bad results, we'll be through the equivalent of the entire population of China by the end of the decade.

This is the biggest rebuild of the club we've seen in many years, we will get some shocking results. Man Utd have been caught out against lower league teams, other SPL teams last night got caught out as well. Embarrasing, but something that lessons need to be learned from and we move on stronger.

I seem to hear that quote being trotted out every season now on here, its becoming boring.

[Hibercelona]

I just came on here after last night hoping that people had calmed down and regained back a bit of perspective. Silly me.

We must be the the only football fans in the world that change our perspective so dramatically after each and every result. We're even sad enough to resort to stats that really don't mean anything at this point.

The current view is "Pat isn't the man for the job". But I can guarantee that if we get a result at the weekend, he'll suddenly become "the right man" again.

It's one of the most cringeworthy elements of our fan base.

[JimBHibees]

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I just came on here after last night hoping that people had calmed down and regained back a bit of perspective. Silly me.

We must be the the only football fans in the world that change our perspective so dramatically after each and every result. We're even sad enough to resort to stats that really don't mean anything at this point.

The current view is "Pat isn't the man for the job". But I can guarantee that if we get a result at the weekend, he'll suddenly become "the right man" again.

It's one of the most cringeworthy elements of our fan base.

I dont think that is right and that many are saying that however last nights result was a shocker and given the starting line up he put out and the performance he got he should be getting criticised for it

[blackpoolhibs]

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I seem to hear that quote being trotted out every season now on here, its becoming boring.

I agree, if we still need major surgery, and the rebuilding job is still huge, how many more players do we need to win a game against Queen of the ****in south?

[silverhibee]

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May have also been an attempt to sell players.

Well it back fired big time, there will be no takers for that lot that played last night, we are probably stuck with them, we can't even pay them of as we would need them for back up if we got injuries and suspensions to our first 11.

That's a big worry, a couple of injuries to key players(ie Sparky & McPake) during this season and we are in big bother.

[ScottB]

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And in that time how many players have left the club.

A lot. Almost all of them were useless too.

In the economic circumstances of the SPL these days, plus our own losses in recent years, I think trying to say that Fenlon isn't doing well because he hasn't been backed, as the post I was replying to originally did, is a total nonsense. He's signed almost an entire first team and subs bench worth of players across two windows. Much of the current first choice starting line up are 'his' players etc.

[jacomo]

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Firstly, Queen of the South deserve a bit of credit here. They've started the season incredibly well and it may be that they are destined for a higher level than they are currently playing.

However, putting out a weakened side was madness when we are so desperate to build up a bit of momentum and confidence. I honestly think PF may have put out that team in an attempt to send a message to the board.

If that was the case I think he would have hinted at that in his post-match comments. But instead he emphatically said that the changes he made were not an excuse for defeat.

Can anyone confirm if McPake was rested or advised not to play last night, due to chronic back issues?

[silverhibee]

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That doesn't matter. The squad was bloated as things were, and all teams have had to cut the size of the first team.

That's not what i asked.

[Spike Mandela]

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I just came on here after last night hoping that people had calmed down and regained back a bit of perspective. Silly me.

We must be the the only football fans in the world that change our perspective so dramatically after each and every result. We're even sad enough to resort to stats that really don't mean anything at this point.

The current view is "Pat isn't the man for the job". But I can guarantee that if we get a result at the weekend, he'll suddenly become "the right man" again.

It's one of the most cringeworthy elements of our fan base.

Is it not simply a case that last nights's result has trampled all over the fans 'optimism springing from two wins in the league.

We have been pretty dire for most of Mr Fenlon's tenure and expectations were pretty low amongst the support surely you can't be too harsh on supporters grasping the St M and St j results and hoping they were signs of improvement and something to , dare I say it , get excited about.

Fenlon really needs to get a performance out the team against Celtic, could even be a loss but just needs a really good team performance. Another embarrassing heavy defeat could dent team confidence affecting morale for rest of season and putting Fenlon under more pressure in his job.

[Baldy Foghorn]

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But why did he feel the need to make 4 changes to the team that won on Saturday and the week before that, he can't use the excuse that players need resting, we have only played a handful of games since the season started, he should have played and kept the team that started on Saturday for last night, they were just starting to gel a bit and the manager goes and makes 4 changes, keep the winning team on the park and let them get used to each other and get used to winning games instead of chopping the team about for what was always going to be a tricky tie for us, tough on the fringe players if they are not getting a game because the team that played in the last two games won them and are doing well and should have kept there places for last nights game.

So to me the manager got it wrong last night, but he won't put his hands up for this defeat that's for sure.

How do you know???

4 changes, big deal....I believe JM was rested pre Saturday......Are you really saying that starting 11 last night should not have been too good for QOS?? On paper the two sides are poles apart.....They all had shockers, every last one of them.....Not sure what PF can do when that happens?

One of the brief comments I saw from PF after last night, was that he was "disgusted" by that, as was every fan who witnessed it.....He was let down badly by his team IMO........

[Nailrod]

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Firstly, Queen of the South deserve a bit of credit here. They've started the season incredibly well and it may be that they are destined for a higher level than they are currently playing.

However, putting out a weakened side was madness when we are so desperate to build up a bit of momentum and confidence. I honestly think PF may have put out that team in an attempt to send a message to the board.

This is now the second time I've seen this line of thought.

Presumably the 'message' was:

"Ok Board. I need more money for better players. So instead of sitting down with you and talking it over, I've decided to put out a weak team who will be eliminated from the League Cup by second division opposition at the first hurdle, thereby depriving the club of the opportunity to earn several hundreds of thousand of pounds that might have been made available to me to buy better players. Let that be a lesson to you! And now, Rod, it's time to dip into your non-existent personal fortune to bail me out..."

Did it occur to you when you made this post that if this genuinely were the explanation for last night's debacle, then Fenlon should be sacked on the spot for being the stupidest man on the planet?