Club Culture

[Hibercelona]

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Romanov pumped millions into hearts during that period and brought in some top quality players. It was just an absolute **** that our golden generation were around at the same time as they were artificially propped up. There are other periods of hearts domination that take a bit more explanation but that period is a bad example.

Sadly, I think we can pick out examples from more or less every decade. Hearts have had the better of us even in our so called "golden ages".

I also don't think the Mowbray example is really a bad example at all. Most of the players Hearts had at the time where vastly over rated and over paid lithuanians.

Even although we were finishing above Hearts quite comfortably in the table, their records where still better than ours.

[Pete]

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Sadly, I think we can pick out examples from more or less every decade. Hearts have had the better of us even in our so called "golden ages".

I also don't think the Mowbray example is really a bad example at all. Most of the players Hearts had at the time where vastly over rated and over paid lithuanians.

Even although we were finishing above Hearts quite comfortably in the table, their records where still better than ours.

Whit? It's got to be the worst example you could ever use!!

That hearts team was immense and was almost entirely funded by Romanov. These "over-rated" Lithuanians were full internationals and one of them even had a champions league medal.

There is definitely something in what you say regarding the overall situation but look back at their squad from 2005 and you'll see the quality. If Romanov wasn't there that would have been a period of domination for us.

[Hibercelona]

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Whit? It's got to be the worst example you could ever use!!

That hearts team was immense and was almost entirely funded by Romanov. These "over-rated" Lithuanians were full internationals and one of them even had a champions league medal.

There is definitely something in what you say regarding the overall situation but look back at their squad from 2005 and you'll see the quality. If Romanov wasn't there that would have been a period of domination for us.

The first season Mowbray was in charge, we finished above Hearts quite comfortably, yet the derby record that season was still in their favour.

The next season seen Hearts finish 2nd and although they had a superior team to us at the time, we still had a great team and managed to finish 4th. Yet i'm pretty sure we're the team that they scored the most goals against that season.

Hearts always seem to be at their best when they're playing us and we always seem to be at our worst.

Sure, other factors may tip the odds in Hearts favour, but theres absolutely no excuse for the manner in which we lose to them most of the time.

We haven't beaten Hearts in 3 years. Is there any other secure team in the league that haven't beaten them for 3 years?

[Diclonius]

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The first season Mowbray was in charge, we finished above Hearts quite comfortably, yet the derby record that season was still in their favour.

The next season seen Hearts finish 2nd and although they had a superior team to us at the time, we still had a great team and managed to finish 4th. Yet i'm pretty sure we're the team that they scored the most goals against that season.

Hearts always seem to be at their best when they're playing us and we always seem to be at our worst.

Sure, other factors may tip the odds in Hearts favour, but theres absolutely no excuse for the manner in which we lose to them most of the time.

We haven't beaten Hearts in 3 years. Is there any other secure team in the league that haven't beaten them for 3 years?

SPL members 2012-13, last wins against Hearts:

Aberdeen: 27th January 2010, 3-0 away (two seasons ago)
Celtic: 13th May 2012, 5-0 at home (this season)
Dundee Utd: 20th February 2012, 2-0 away (this season)
Hibernian: 7th May 2009, 1-0 away (three seasons ago)
Inverness CT: 21th January 2012, 1-0 at home (this season)
Kilmarnock: 29th October 2011, 1-0 away (this season)
Motherwell: 1th May 2012, 1-0 away (this season)
Rangers: 21st April 2012, 3-0 away (this season)
Ross County: Never beaten them (except on penalties)
St Johnstone: 24th March 2012, 2-1 at home (this season)
St Mirren: 2nd February 2010, 1-0 at a neutral venue (two seasons ago)

So, aside from a team that haven't played in the top flight of Scottish football until the forthcoming season (and will most likely beat them too) Hibs have gone the longest without securing a win against Hearts. How many times have these teams beaten them since the 7th May 2009?

Aberdeen - 2
Celtic - 9
Dundee Utd - 7
Inverness CT - 1 (one season in the First Division)
Kilmarnock - 3
Motherwell - 7
Rangers - 8
St Johnstone - 6
St Mirren - 2

Quite astonishing.

[Pete]

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SPL members 2012-13, last wins against Hearts:

Aberdeen: 27th January 2010, 3-0 away (two seasons ago)
Celtic: 13th May 2012, 5-0 at home (this season)
Dundee Utd: 20th February 2012, 2-0 away (this season)
Hibernian: 7th May 2009, 1-0 away (three seasons ago)
Inverness CT: 21th January 2012, 1-0 at home (this season)
Kilmarnock: 29th October 2011, 1-0 away (this season)
Motherwell: 1th May 2012, 1-0 away (this season)
Rangers: 21st April 2012, 3-0 away (this season)
Ross County: Never beaten them (except on penalties)
St Johnstone: 24th March 2012, 2-1 at home (this season)
St Mirren: 2nd February 2010, 1-0 at a neutral venue (two seasons ago)

So, aside from a team that haven't played in the top flight of Scottish football until the forthcoming season (and will most likely beat them too) Hibs have gone the longest without securing a win against Hearts. How many times have these teams beaten them since the 7th May 2009?

Aberdeen - 2
Celtic - 9
Dundee Utd - 7
Inverness CT - 1 (one season in the First Division)
Kilmarnock - 3
Motherwell - 7
Rangers - 8
St Johnstone - 6
St Mirren - 2

Quite astonishing.

That is astonishing. It actually defies logic.

[Sunny1875]

I don't feel its Only the mentality against Hearts that needs to change, I truly feel that we need to create a siege mentality around Easter Road, If Pat Fenlon identifies a player he wants then proper moves should be made to secure said player, When a player steps over the door at club they should know in no uncertain terms what is expected of them, That being a professional attitude all the time, 'Billy bigtimes' should not be tolerated. The Players we have to start next season should know they have a job to do, That Job is making OUR club, THEIR club a real force in Scottish football. If that means training becomes a full time job then so be it, These guys do receive more than a full time wage for most of us after all. Anyone not fully committed to the cause should go, no long looks in the mirror, Doors there don't let it hit you on the erse as your leaving. Only some of the players we have had this season have displayed a willingness to win i cant understand why any professional would have anything other than that. Some players are genuinely not good enough to wear a Hibs strip , No names I don't think that helps or is necessarily a good thing right now. Some of our current squad benefited from loanees like McPake and the attitude he displayed others did not, we need to know why someone who represents us is prepared to settle for second best at any time. Defending should start with the front two, Attacking starts from the goalkeeper. Our team should be a unit and if someone is injured, or suspended the player stepping in should display the same passion, and commitment.
Each player should fight for the jersey and each other no less should be tolerated.

That's the Mentality that needs to change at our club, and it needs to change from Now

[PeeJay]

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Who was saying that hatred of Hearts was a solution to Hibs problems as a football club.

What I am saying is that our dismal and appalling, bordering on shamefull, record in derby matches has to change. Do you think its a coincidence that for years now that no matter what sort of team we have had at the time Hearts have always managed to get the better of us more often than not. Do you think that it was an accident that in the match following the 7 - 0 game, which we can no longer crow about thanks to Saturday, that Hearts beat us 4 - 0 at Easter Road.

When you support a team which has no chance of EVER winning the league, your only goal is to get the better of your biggest rivals either by winning cups or by beating them in derby matches. As far as I an concerned that starts by changing not only our attitude to this rivalry but also the attitude within the club until the players are terrified of losing to Hearts. The rest will hopefully follow.

I once heard a rangers fan who had been told Ibrox will be the best stadium in Scotland say ..." I will be happy to have the best stadium in Glasgow.

How can we hope be the one of the best clubs in Scotland when we cant even be the best club in Edinburgh ?

In a way I understand the feeling/emotion behind your post - however, you mention the word hatred quite a few times and you even couple it with hatred and bile at one point: so why mention it so often if you are not pushing for it as the way forward?

You are of course correct in that we certainly need a radical rethink of everything connected with Hibernian football club - The only way forward IMO is to start at the TOP of the club, and I feel we actually will have to spend money to get out of the hole we are in: it must be obvious to everyone, surely?

As to attitude (which is a fair point on your part) I'd personally go for passion, pride and professionalism - there is no place for hatred - it's the wrong emotion, nothing positive will come of it.


Hearts are "better" because they have had money pumped in - if we want to be the best team in Edinburgh, win cups, leagues, get into Europe and progresss once we are there - we surely need to invest in the team and get some quality players in there - seems simple enough to me.

[Hibercelona]

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That is astonishing. It actually defies logic.

Unfortunately it doesn't really defy logic at all.

We can have far better players than Hearts, but still maintain a shocking record against them.

You don't beat your rivals with better players, you beat them out of sheer desire and hunger.

Something that we sadly always seem to be lackng in.

[21.05.2016]

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Unfortunately it doesn't really defy logic at all.

We can have far better players than Hearts, but still maintain a shocking record against them.

You don't beat your rivals with better players, you beat them out of sheer desire and hunger.

Something that we sadly always seem to be lackng in.

Absolutly. In big occasions like derbies its all about mentality and who shows the most desire to win and unfortunatly we never seem to show that desire. Even with a better team we still struggle to beat hearts simply because we go in with the mind set that we are the smaller team. Hearts call themselves "big team" and us "wee team" and unfortunatly our players seem to believe that.

[PatHead]

Getting beaten by Hearts is nothing new. I am sure Lawrie Reilly mentioned in his book that our greatest ever team had a poor record against Hearts.

I do however agree that a new attitude needs to be created within Easter Road and accepting 2nd best is not one of the requirements. As I mentioned this has to come from the board down though. We should not accept Thomson's performance on Saturday. How many times has he done it in the past to us and how many times will he do it in the future? I mentioned on another thread how Celtic got upset with decisions in games going against them. Two years ago they composed a video of certain refereeing decisions that had gone against them over the season. They presented it to the refereeing committee at SFA and last season they had no problems. Noticable how certain refs got dropped out the SPL and have now resigned.

Let the press know a new broom has arrived at Easter Road and get some positive vibes around the place. Make Easter Road a place where people want to come and don't choose St Johnstone/St Mirren/Dundee Utd etc over Hibs.

Hibs as a family have to man up, but do it with professionalism, facts, manners, dignity and honour. Let people know that on and off the pitch we will not be bullied and will not accept second best.

[Aldoo]

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SPL members 2012-13, last wins against Hearts:

Aberdeen: 27th January 2010, 3-0 away (two seasons ago)
Celtic: 13th May 2012, 5-0 at home (this season)
Dundee Utd: 20th February 2012, 2-0 away (this season)
Hibernian: 7th May 2009, 1-0 away (three seasons ago)
Inverness CT: 21th January 2012, 1-0 at home (this season)
Kilmarnock: 29th October 2011, 1-0 away (this season)
Motherwell: 1th May 2012, 1-0 away (this season)
Rangers: 21st April 2012, 3-0 away (this season)
Ross County: Never beaten them (except on penalties)
St Johnstone: 24th March 2012, 2-1 at home (this season)
St Mirren: 2nd February 2010, 1-0 at a neutral venue (two seasons ago)

So, aside from a team that haven't played in the top flight of Scottish football until the forthcoming season (and will most likely beat them too) Hibs have gone the longest without securing a win against Hearts. How many times have these teams beaten them since the 7th May 2009?

Aberdeen - 2
Celtic - 9
Dundee Utd - 7
Inverness CT - 1 (one season in the First Division)
Kilmarnock - 3
Motherwell - 7
Rangers - 8
St Johnstone - 6
St Mirren - 2

Quite astonishing.

I'm actually surprised that anybody finds this astonishing, it is blatantly obvious that the sheer desire Hearts players have when beating us is not and has rarely been matched by Hibs teams (both good and bad).

How many times do you see Hearts scoring winners/equalisers/adding to their lead in the last 10 minutes of a game against us? Now compare that to how many times you see them doing the exact same thing against anyone else etc. The Hearts players you see struggling to beat St Mirren/St Johnstone etc are not the same players mentally that turn up for Hibs games. If they were they would not be sitting fighting for 5th/6th place, it purely comes down to desire and their will to win against us.

This will and desire to be top dogs in Edinburgh must surely come from the moment they walk through the door, whether they be young players coming through their academy or some Eastern European who has never heard of us, it is drilled into them that they must beat Hibs. This gives them a purpose and immediate affinity with Hearts and they feel they must carry out that mission to beat us, did Hamill and Grainger worry you when they were at Killie and St Johnstone, absolutely not, how many times did you walk away from a Caley game at Easter Road thinking 'that Ian Black ran the show again today' but they look unbeatable against us now and yet they are the same player but with a different mentality.

We on the other hand, when a player arrives at the club they are probably asked nicely to do well for Hibs and we won't stand in your way if a club comes calling with an offer that matches Hibs valuation, where is the moment when it is drilled into them what it means to play for us, we continually get frustrated when players don't feel it the same way we do, Hibs are in our bones and we will never lose that, the same cannot be said for the players and it won't happen until on your first day you are immediately told what it means to play for this great club.

Until then don't be surprised with more of the same.

[superfurryhibby]

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Who was saying that hatred of Hearts was a solution to Hibs problems as a football club.

What I am saying is that our dismal and appalling, bordering on shamefull, record in derby matches has to change. Do you think its a coincidence that for years now that no matter what sort of team we have had at the time Hearts have always managed to get the better of us more often than not. Do you think that it was an accident that in the match following the 7 - 0 game, which we can no longer crow about thanks to Saturday, that Hearts beat us 4 - 0 at Easter Road.

When you support a team which has no chance of EVER winning the league, your only goal is to get the better of your biggest rivals either by winning cups or by beating them in derby matches. As far as I an concerned that starts by changing not only our attitude to this rivalry but also the attitude within the club until the players are terrified of losing to Hearts. The rest will hopefully follow.

I once heard a rangers fan who had been told Ibrox will be the best stadium in Scotland say ..." I will be happy to have the best stadium in Glasgow.

How can we hope be the one of the best clubs in Scotland when we cant even be the best club in Edinburgh ?

In the interests of accuracy I think it needs pointed out that the next game after 7-0 was at Tynie and they won 4-1. I know that cause it was my frirst ever derby.

I understand your sentiments but it's totally misplaced. They generally win because they generally have had better players than us, at least for much of the past three decades. Personally, I don't give a **** about Hearts. They are not the yardstick against which the Hibs must be judged. Aye, they are our oldest rivals and all of that but there's still only three points at stake when we meet.

[Hibercelona]

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I'm actually surprised that anybody finds this astonishing, it is blatantly obvious that the sheer desire Hearts players have when beating us is not and has rarely been matched by Hibs teams (both good and bad).

How many times do you see Hearts scoring winners/equalisers/adding to their lead in the last 10 minutes of a game against us? Now compare that to how many times you see them doing the exact same thing against anyone else etc. The Hearts players you see struggling to beat St Mirren/St Johnstone etc are not the same players mentally that turn up for Hibs games. If they were they would not be sitting fighting for 5th/6th place, it purely comes down to desire and their will to win against us.

This will and desire to be top dogs in Edinburgh must surely come from the moment they walk through the door, whether they be young players coming through their academy or some Eastern European who has never heard of us, it is drilled into them that they must beat Hibs. This gives them a purpose and immediate affinity with Hearts and they feel they must carry out that mission to beat us, did Hamill and Grainger worry you when they were at Killie and St Johnstone, absolutely not, how many times did you walk away from a Caley game at Easter Road thinking 'that Ian Black ran the show again today' but they look unbeatable against us now and yet they are the same player but with a different mentality.

We on the other hand, when a player arrives at the club they are probably asked nicely to do well for Hibs and we won't stand in your way if a club comes calling with an offer that matches Hibs valuation, where is the moment when it is drilled into them what it means to play for us, we continually get frustrated when players don't feel it the same way we do, Hibs are in our bones and we will never lose that, the same cannot be said for the players and it won't happen until on your first day you are immediately told what it means to play for this great club.

Until then don't be surprised with more of the same.

Nail hit firmly on the head.

Every player that walks through the door MUST know what it means to beat Hearts. If we can't drill that into them as soon as they arrive, then we're failing as a club and don't deserve to even be considered their rivals.

It hurts to say it, but thats the reality of it.

[Hibercelona]

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In the interests of accuracy I think it needs pointed out that the next game after 7-0 was at Tynie and they won 4-1. I know that cause it was my frirst ever derby.

I understand your sentiments but it's totally misplaced. They generally win because they generally have had better players than us, at least for much of the past three decades. Personally, I don't give a **** about Hearts. They are not the yardstick against which the Hibs must be judged. Aye, they are our oldest rivals and all of that but there's still only three points at stake when we meet.

You're wrong.

What about pride? What about dignity? What about respect?

Everytime we lose to Hearts, we lose just that little bit more of these things.

Theres far more than just 3 points at stake.

[ac1]

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You're wrong.

What about pride? What about dignity? What about respect?

Everytime we lose to Hearts, we lose just that little bit more of these things.

Theres far more than just 3 points at stake.

Correct! Hearts know there is so much more than just 3 points at stake when we play