Patrick Fenlon

[Cropley10]

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I agree completely we need to have consistancy and keep a manager, give him time and allow him to do something. we are in a mess as a result of constantly changing managers that have a need to bring in their own players so we end up with a fragmented squad and probably end up spending more money on getting rid of managers and players than we would if we just elected to pay a bit more for a better quality of player.

That said it needs to be the right guy in place in the first place. I dont want to be in the position again for getting rid of another manager in advance of the AGM or pre xmas.

I dont think Fenlon saved us from relegation, I think dunfermline did. I worry about may have happened if fat jim had been appointed a month earlier. I also dont want to see our manager sent to the stand for waving his arms at the opposition fans, I think fenlon is better than getting involved in that!

The board and the manager will know far better if current management team has the ability to build a team, and I dont think that means raiding the LOI for players. I dont see billy brown being there next year so we will have to see what the board chose to do. Albeit i think their job starts on monday having lost a few players after the game yesterday. I am delighted this season is over, in hindsight i wish it ended as i was walking out of the inverness game. The work starts here and I guess I am probably guilty of being a bit down on Fenlon after yesterdays team / tactics display.

Very good post

[Jones28]

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why the **** should we...year after year we get shafted and embarred by this lot and we get people on her asking us to keep supporting them when will they start supopring the fans

**** this club that has made us look like aresholes

Don't let the door hit you on the arse on your way out :)

[Wotherspiniesta]

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Don't let the door hit you on the arse on your way out :)

Away and piss off and watch Man City if you can't cope, Love The Blue.

[HibsMax]

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But Motherwell,S Johnstone and Killie who all pay less than us can attract better quality player's, that must be down to the management

It could be down to management. Or maybe they just don't want to play for Hibs? I genuinely don't know.

I just get a little tired seeing the manager being blamed for poor signings when he really might be doing the best he can. That's not to say it isn't his fault (partially or wholly) but I don't know how tightly bound his hands are.

One thing that I just thought about, and it worries me, is we've been pretty unsuccessful at building a team over the past few years. Do we have enough faith in the club splashing the cash and not end up in massive debt and still have a crap team?

[Sudds_1]

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That said it needs to be the right guy in place in the first place. I dont want to be in the position again for getting rid of another manager in advance of the AGM or pre xmas.

Agreed....but if you don't give the guy a chance, how do you know he's the right man for the job? Even Alex Ferguson in his early MANU days was one game away from the sack before his methods started to work. Look at him now.

I dont think Fenlon saved us from relegation, I think dunfermline did.

We could argue that all day! But you have a point. DAFC were a poor poor team. I like to think it was a mix of both?


I worry about may have happened if fat jim had been appointed a month earlier. I also dont want to see our manager sent to the stand for waving his arms at the opposition fans, I think fenlon is better than getting involved in that!

The board and the manager will know far better if current management team has the ability to build a team, and I dont think that means raiding the LOI for players. I dont see billy brown being there next year so we will have to see what the board chose to do. Albeit i think their job starts on monday having lost a few players after the game yesterday. I am delighted this season is over, in hindsight i wish it ended as i was walking out of the inverness game. The work starts here and I guess I am probably guilty of being a bit down on Fenlon after yesterdays team / tactics display.

[Stevie Reid]

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This crap that PF was brought in to save us from relegation is total bull.

We had only played 9 games when he took over, were 4 points above ICT who were bottom and only 3 points behind Hearts in 4th place.

No way the Petrie said all you gotta do is keep us up Pat, the jobs yours. Nonsense.

It was only when we slipped down the league that we shifted the goal posts and said staying up was the goal.

PF has got to take the responsibility and going by his post match interview he will.

My biggest worry is what happens this close season. This time last year the first thing CC did was extend Stevenson's contract by a year, exactly how PF has started off. If this is a sign of how the summer will unfold then next year will be just as bad if not worse.

The clear out needs to begin with guys like Murray, Stevenson, Hanlon, Sproule etc. All the 'fans favourites' are crap and need to go. Billy Brown should be first on the list.

I like PF and hope that he has the freedom to do as he wants. No more Petrie signings a la Sproule and O'connor. Let the manager manage.

Not one part of the bit in bold is true - Calderwood was in charge of Hibs for 17 games this season (14 league games and 3 league cup matches), and when he was sacked after the 1-0 home defeat to Dunfermline, they moved off the bottom of the league onto the same points as us. We were 9th in the league on 13 points from 14 games, Dunfermline were 10th on the same points from one less game - Aberdeen and ICT were 11th and 12th on 12 points each; Aberdeen also had a game in hand on us. Hearts were 6 points above us in 5th place.

Fenlon's first game in charge was against Motherwell in December, our 17th league game.

[yeezus.]

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Fenlon gave the Hearts fans a :giruy::giruy::giruy:

That is not what a Hibs manager should be doing (althougth I agree with his setiment) how can he instill discipline if he cant control himself

Is that true? I herd he made a gesture at them but wasn't sure if it's true.

[BoltonHibee]

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Is that true? I herd he made a gesture at them but wasn't sure if it's true.

On the radio they said he made a hand gesture towards the Hearts fans in reaction to a comment. I don't think he was waving Cheerio to them

[Emerald]

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I agree completely we need to have consistancy and keep a manager, give him time and allow him to do something. we are in a mess as a result of constantly changing managers that have a need to bring in their own players so we end up with a fragmented squad and probably end up spending more money on getting rid of managers and players than we would if we just elected to pay a bit more for a better quality of player.

That said it needs to be the right guy in place in the first place. I dont want to be in the position again for getting rid of another manager in advance of the AGM or pre xmas.

I dont think Fenlon saved us from relegation, I think dunfermline did. I worry about may have happened if fat jim had been appointed a month earlier. I also dont want to see our manager sent to the stand for waving his arms at the opposition fans, I think fenlon is better than getting involved in that!

The board and the manager will know far better if current management team has the ability to build a team, and I dont think that means raiding the LOI for players. I dont see billy brown being there next year so we will have to see what the board chose to do. Albeit i think their job starts on monday having lost a few players after the game yesterday. I am delighted this season is over, in hindsight i wish it ended as i was walking out of the inverness game. The work starts here and I guess I am probably guilty of being a bit down on Fenlon after yesterdays team / tactics display.

Great post.

I have never been in favour of the PF appointment but hoped he would come good but I just cant see it. I'm pretty sure a host of lower league clubs could have put on a better display yesterday. PF prepared the team, gave them instructions and tacticts, picked the players and tried to motivate them. He failed in all of these things. Don't forget the hero status he would have taken on had they won, so he has take the blame for the defeat and terrible record he has had since arriving. There are people saying better tactics would still not have won us the game, maybe so but surrendering the midfield and allowing them the freedom of the wings was just bad management. Our midfield have sat two yards in front of our back four since he arrived, giving the opposition acres of space to play in and no out ball or link up with the forwards. That could have been sorted with better tactics and preperation. He is the manager that was in charge on the worst day of my life as a Hibs supporter and I have no confidence in him being the right man to change things. I really really hope I'm wrong on that one.

[Greentinted]

For a while now I've found our managerial situation chiming with that of Dundee Utd when they employed 6 managers in 6 years up until the installation of Levein (while I am a huge critic, he was suited to that club) who stabilised and dragged a club in disarray forward, although if judged on the first 6 months of his tenure he too would have been ousted. I don't know if PF is the medium to long term answer but with a proper close season behind him a more circumspect judgement can be made after the first two rounds of games.

As to what the boards expectations of PF were, only they will know for sure. Although both parties have said in various interviews 'staying up' was the priority - of course, even such an explicit phrase is subject to interpretation. Conversely - I don't think the brief was to beat Hearts at Hampden in May either.
Furthermore, Billy Brown's continued presence has been puzzling as it was increasingly obvious that he pines to be with his big pal - at best unprofessional, at worst a glib insult to the fans who, by-and-large welcomed him in spite of his dubious footballing affiliations. Nothing personal Billy, but see you are more than expendable.

[Baker9]

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I find it strange that more people have turned on Petrie today than Fenlon? Fenlon is the one who picked the team, tactics etc, Petrie didn't have any input today

For the record I believe neither should be punted, especially Paddy.

Petrie has run the football in this football club into the ground but he's good at counting.

[blackpoolhibs]

Ferguson was never 1 game away from the sack when they beat Forrest in that cup game.

[R'Albin]

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Petrie has run the football in this football club into the ground but he's good at counting.

Yes, by appointing poor managers. If we were going to get rid of him it should've been when CC was punted, not now IMO.

[Yuillsy]

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Fenlon gave the Hearts fans a :giruy::giruy::giruy:

That is not what a Hibs manager should be doing (althougth I agree with his setiment) how can he instill discipline if he cant control himself

If Fenlon really done that he's a legend IMO. If any of the players showed
that passion we wouldn't have been on the receiving end of a ttanking

[Captain Trips]

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Without those signings he made in January, i'm now convinced we'd have been relegated. I think he gambled on bringing in more loan players than is the norm, to 1 keep us up, and 2 give us the breathing space that gives us to start the rebuild thats obviously needed.

He got rid of a lot of players straight away, who were complete wasters and taking us down. The gamble worked and we stayed up, i think we all hoped and he probably did too that they'd be a bit better, and we'd not been in a relegation fight.

That was not the case though, but we did stay up, and had the added bonus of the cup final, although that does not feel like a bonus today, financially its given him a much better chance of bringing in better players next season.

Our club is in a real mess player wise, after the loans go back, whats left is relegation fodder. I think Fenlon can stop this, and address the situation, its going to take a lot of hard work though, but he deserves the chance to try and do it imo.

BH myself with you were critical of CC from quite an early stage and we continued as the performances and results really did not improve, unfortunatly I find myself with the exact same thoughts as with CC except this time you are seeing something I am not and vice versa.

I will counter your first paragraph as it is conjecture as is my response if he had accuired better players in window relegation may not have been an issue. I agree with you loans was really the only route I question the ability of most of them.

I will say that when CC came in whas his brief avoid relegation? If so he did it. PF I will conceed had a worse squad on day 1 than CC so he maybe had a harder task however I think PFs dealings in his first window left a lot to be desired. Maybe I am harsh BH but I expect to see more improvements even in 6 months than I saw.

Yesterday really was a situation IMO that he has almost learned nothing from day 1 or his previous matches v Hearts, Mixu seemed to not learn and this looks the same. I admire PFs spirit and passion it wipes the floor with CC but for me there were lots of things yesterday that were avoidable and the team failed and from what I saw it was basically all PFs signings at major fault.

What are you seeing in him BH that I maybe am not mate.

[Frazerbob]

Fenlon's reaction to the Hearts fans singing "One Pat Fenlon" was shown (twice) on Sportscene and it is cringe worthy. What was worse was that when asked in the after match interview about it he claimed it was aimed at his player! Embarassing, it was a clear "GIRFUY" towards the Hearts fans.

How can he possibly install any discipline in the team when he has none himself.

He showed a lot of passion in the interview and seemed to ready to make sweeping changes but he also seemed to be passing the buck somewhat by blamimg the culture that has existed at ER over a number of years despite the fact that many of the team were his signings.

[blackpoolhibs]

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BH myself with you were critical of CC from quite an early stage and we continued as the performances and results really did not improve, unfortunatly I find myself with the exact same thoughts as with CC except this time you are seeing something I am not and vice versa.

I will counter your first paragraph as it is conjecture as is my response if he had accuired better players in window relegation may not have been an issue. I agree with you loans was really the only route I question the ability of most of them.

I will say that when CC came in whas his brief avoid relegation? If so he did it. PF I will conceed had a worse squad on day 1 than CC so he maybe had a harder task however I think PFs dealings in his first window left a lot to be desired. Maybe I am harsh BH but I expect to see more improvements even in 6 months than I saw.

Yesterday really was a situation IMO that he has almost learned nothing from day 1 or his previous matches v Hearts, Mixu seemed to not learn and this looks the same. I admire PFs spirit and passion it wipes the floor with CC but for me there were lots of things yesterday that were avoidable and the team failed and from what I saw it was basically all PFs signings at major fault.

What are you seeing in him BH that I maybe am not mate.

Dont get me wrong, yesterdays humiliation was a result of his players and formation. Both were shocking imo.

Where we disagree is, like you i think he had to start from a much lower base than Calderclown. He had to shuffle the pack, getting rid of quite a few high earners who were just awful. He brought some new players in, some better than others, it was a gamble though, but one he had to take imo as the team he inherited was taking us down.

I'm not daft enough to say this lot are much better, but i do think they are slightly. And the gamble of getting rid of the last lot and replacing them with loans was done imo to get us to the end of the season in the SPL.

The cup run was a bonus, and as i said elsewhere although it does not feel like a bonus just now, will help in what we can bring in next season.

I have no idea if what i said above is right, its just what i think. And if thats true, he deserves a chance to start next season and bring in the players to change this downward spiral we seem to be in.

[BoltonHibee]

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Dont get me wrong, yesterdays humiliation was a result of his players and formation. Both were shocking imo.

Where we disagree is, like you i think he had to start from a much lower base than Calderclown. He had to shuffle the pack, getting rid of quite a few high earners who were just awful. He brought some new players in, some better than others, it was a gamble though, but one he had to take imo as the team he inherited was taking us down.

I'm not daft enough to say this lot are much better, but i do think they are slightly. And the gamble of getting rid of the last lot and replacing them with loans was done imo to get us to the end of the season in the SPL.

The cup run was a bonus, and as i said elsewhere although it does not feel like a bonus just now, will help in what we can bring in next season.

I have no idea if what i said above is right, its just what i think. And if thats true, he deserves a chance to start next season and bring in the players to change this downward spiral we seem to be in.

You alternate between loving managers and hating them. Hughes was the love of your life, Calderwood you hated and now you love Pat. What on earth makes you think Fenlon is going to turn anything around?

You live in hope as opposed to any reasoned judgement.

Fenlon has proven himself as much of a clown as Calderwood.

[basehibby]

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Pat getting a hard time for his tactics but I don't think we have the players to play anything Other than a basic 442.

None of our strikers are effective up on their own, we only have 2 decent centre backs, we have no wingers with any quality. Our central midfielders are all water carriers, no leaders or creators.

Francomb or kujabi could have gone either way for me, kujabi has had a nightmare and if it wasn't for claros being even worse would have been hooked at ht.

Nobody left out today has done anything this season to suggest they should have been involved.

So I think fenlon has done well to get a poor team to a final but they have let everyone down on the day. I liked how angry he was, I'm glad he gave the ****s the sparky, I am looking forward to him clearing Out our squad and bringing in some players who will fight for the jersey. We have been pushovers for too long.

Fenlon sent out the best side at his disposal and (as has been the case all season) they were not good enough to cope with a top 6 side. Those talking about getting rid of him are crazy - all it would mean is we are back to square one, managerless and rudderless yet again rather than attempting to build on existing progress. Remember that Fenlon has achieved his prime objective of keeping Hibs in the SPL as well as MASSIVELY OVER-ACHIEVING by getting the team into the Scottish Cup final. OK yesterday was an enormous let down but lets not throw out the baby with the bathwater please.

[blackpoolhibs]

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You alternate between loving managers and hating them. Hughes was the love of your life, Calderwood you hated and now you love Pat. What on earth makes you think Fenlon is going to turn anything around?

You live in hope as opposed to any reasoned judgement.

Fenlon has proven himself as much of a clown as Calderwood.

And you just hate everybody.

[Love the Green]

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Paddy Fenlons tactics today were awful, he handed the midfield to them by playing 4-4-2. We never showed up today though, and some of our players were like rabbits caught in the headlights of a lorry, but we were set up all wrong from the start, and that was down to the manager.

I have said it all season, we are a poor side. This team finished 2nd bottom for a reason, and Pat has a huge job rebuilding this pish football team next season.

Yes we did BH that is what this shower of hopeless excuses for a football team have been providing all season.. how can you say we never turned up..this was he best this lot can do.

"keep the faith"

[ScottB]

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Fenlon's reaction to the Hearts fans singing "One Pat Fenlon" was shown (twice) on Sportscene and it is cringe worthy. What was worse was that when asked in the after match interview about it he claimed it was aimed at his player! Embarassing, it was a clear "GIRFUY" towards the Hearts fans.

How can he possibly install any discipline in the team when he has none himself.

He showed a lot of passion in the interview and seemed to ready to make sweeping changes but he also seemed to be passing the buck somewhat by blamimg the culture that has existed at ER over a number of years despite the fact that many of the team were his signings.

Yes, he probably shouldn't have reacted, but this was no mere defeat. He's spent his career winning things, the Bohs fans that have posted seem to reckon that anything short of 100% effort drives him to distraction, he was clearly boiling over with fury, and reacted in the moment. I'm almost heartened by that in a way, certainly when compared to CC.

I don't know what to think of him as a manager really. He kept us up, but we have not improved, the same problems remain, though there a good number of his signings in there. The players he brought in range from McPake, probably our best signing since Stokes, to, well, huddies as bad as we've seen under CC and Hughes, so we shall see what he can do in the summer.


I can't help but find myself coming back to a point I've made before, we need quality, but if you were a player good enough to shine in the SPL, why would you come to Hibs? If it was me I'd look at the revolving door of managers and players, that the current squad appear to not bother their backsides even in Cup Finals etc. Why would you risk your career, emotional considerations aside, if any other SPL sides were in for you, you'd probably go somewhere else.

There's a lot of work ahead in the summer, we are pretty much stuck with Pat so let's get on with it.

[Emerald]

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Fenlon sent out the best side at his disposal and (as has been the case all season) they were not good enough to cope with a top 6 side. Those talking about getting rid of him are crazy - all it would mean is we are back to square one, managerless and rudderless yet again rather than attempting to build on existing progress. Remember that Fenlon has achieved his prime objective of keeping Hibs in the SPL as well as MASSIVELY OVER-ACHIEVING by getting the team into the Scottish Cup final. OK yesterday was an enormous let down but lets not throw out the baby with the bathwater please.

We're back to square one anyway, the whole squad needs a clear out and the loan deals will have gone. I would much rather have the right manager for the job doing the re-building than sticking with the wrong man, which I think he is. Sorry, but that is my opinion and I am sticking to it. However, Pat won't be going anywher and I will continue to hope he gets it right and hope I'm proved wrong.

[Captain Trips]

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Fenlon sent out the best side at his disposal and (as has been the case all season) they were not good enough to cope with a top 6 side. Those talking about getting rid of him are crazy - all it would mean is we are back to square one, managerless and rudderless yet again rather than attempting to build on existing progress. Remember that Fenlon has achieved his prime objective of keeping Hibs in the SPL as well as MASSIVELY OVER-ACHIEVING by getting the team into the Scottish Cup final. OK yesterday was an enormous let down but lets not throw out the baby with the bathwater please.

Back to square one? I would suggest that is exactly where we are right now.

[Captain Trips]

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Dont get me wrong, yesterdays humiliation was a result of his players and formation. Both were shocking imo.

Where we disagree is, like you i think he had to start from a much lower base than Calderclown. He had to shuffle the pack, getting rid of quite a few high earners who were just awful. He brought some new players in, some better than others, it was a gamble though, but one he had to take imo as the team he inherited was taking us down.

I'm not daft enough to say this lot are much better, but i do think they are slightly. And the gamble of getting rid of the last lot and replacing them with loans was done imo to get us to the end of the season in the SPL.

The cup run was a bonus, and as i said elsewhere although it does not feel like a bonus just now, will help in what we can bring in next season.

I have no idea if what i said above is right, its just what i think. And if thats true, he deserves a chance to start next season and bring in the players to change this downward spiral we seem to be in.

Do you not think that 6 months in even from what he had at day 1 and after one transfer window we could have at least manged to get the team doing basic closing down during matches? With that in mind how long will it take to sort the more advanced issues? Sorry BH but the lack of closing down killed us and that is PFs role to ensure we did if we are still at that stage 6 months in it will be 2020 by time he sorts it.

[blackpoolhibs]

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Do you not think that 6 months in even from what he had at day 1 and after one transfer window we could have at least manged to get the team doing basic closing down during matches? With that in mind how long will it take to sort the more advanced issues? Sorry BH but the lack of closing down killed us and that is PFs role to ensure we did if we are still at that stage 6 months in it will be 2020 by time he sorts it.

If you are talking about yesterday, i thought he sent the wrong team and formation out. Although it did seem to me a lot of those players completely froze on the big stage.

We are not going to agree on this, i think he should get the time to build his team, yesterdays team was thrown together for one reason alone, and that was to stay up.

Getting to the final while financially terrific, has completely turned a lot of the support against him, i wish we'd lost to Aberdeen.

[Captain Trips]

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If you are talking about yesterday, i thought he sent the wrong team and formation out. Although it did seem to me a lot of those players completely froze on the big stage.

We are not going to agree on this, i think he should get the time to build his team, yesterdays team was thrown together for one reason alone, and that was to stay up.

Getting to the final while financially terrific, has completely turned a lot of the support against him, i wish we'd lost to Aberdeen.

The final was just another match that he failed in BH. I think no matter what he should have since January managed to do better than he has, if you are sending out wrong teams and formations still then that is a worry. I believe he brought in these players to push up league firstly and in doing so avoid relegation. I think his signings along with tactics leave a lot to be desired so I cannot see what you do thats good.

[jacomo]

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Do you not think that 6 months in even from what he had at day 1 and after one transfer window we could have at least manged to get the team doing basic closing down during matches? With that in mind how long will it take to sort the more advanced issues? Sorry BH but the lack of closing down killed us and that is PFs role to ensure we did if we are still at that stage 6 months in it will be 2020 by time he sorts it.

I saw nothing yesterday in our team to suggest PF has got it. They were set up wrong from the start and became shambolic before the 1st half was up.

Fenlon might learn, but he seems tactically naive to me. He needs to learn quickly.

[blackpoolhibs]

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The final was just another match that he failed in BH. I think no matter what he should have since January managed to do better than he has, if you are sending out wrong teams and formations still then that is a worry. I believe he brought in these players to push up league firstly and in doing so avoid relegation. I think his signings along with tactics leave a lot to be desired so I cannot see what you do thats good.

I dont believe i have said its good, i just think he had to get people in and out as we were going down in my opinion. And the reason he brought so many loans in was so he could have a virtual blank canvas in the summer.

Its been poor, we can all see that.

[Captain Trips]

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I dont believe i have said its good, i just think he had to get people in and out as we were going down in my opinion. And the reason he brought so many loans in was so he could have a virtual blank canvas in the summer.

Its been poor, we can all see that.

Loans are still signings though and you have to be judged, he got most of them wrong. 2 of the worst culprits yesterday are on books for next season. The whole club is a shambles and I said this would end in disaster with all these loans.