Are we being realistic?

[Scouse Hibee]

Now I know we'd like to think that we can challenge for 3rd/4th place but can we really expect to given the state we are in? Are we now so far behind Celtic, Rangers, Hearts,Dundee Utd, Motherwell that we need to lower our expectations and count 6th place as a success?

As each season goes by we have unrealistic illusions of how big a club we are and what we should be achieving because we are Hibs, yet the plain truth is we just don't seem to be able to meet these expectations and every season seems to be a transitional one. I for one was under no illusions when I started to follow Hibs, but it seems so long ago since I could enter each new season truly thinking we could challenge.

Is our level now scrapping with Killie, St Johnstone, Inverness, Aberdeen etc. I sincerely hope not, my expectaions levels this coming season will be 6th place anything else will be a bonus IMO.

[Pretty Boy]

A transitional season is absolutely fine as long as it sees us move in the right direction. A season were we build a solid spine of a team, give a few youngsters game time and develop a system of play would be ok with me.

People can argue all they like but this season ahead is about reestablishing ourselves as a top 6 club. That's a step in the right direction and a platform to build from. Yes, I'd like us to get right back up into the hunt for Europe but that's unlikely given where we are starting out from.

A few steps in the right direction and noticeable improvement will do me this season. A couple of decent cup runs would be welcome as well.

[Hibercelona]

My expectations for next season are "improvements".

For a club of Hibernians size, we should be finishing in the top 6 more or less every season, the fact that we aren't leads me to the only possible conclusion that we're poorly run as a football club. (Note: I said "football club")

I don't think its unrealistic for us to finish in the top 6 next season, but it will take some mighty big changes in order to get anywhere close to it.

But i'd be happy to see any improvements next season as we've been going backwards for so long now.

[marinello59]

I don't think it is unrealistic to expect better than sixth place in the coming season and I hope Pat Fenlon aims to do better than that. We may have a major rebuilding job on our hands but the SPL isn't the toughest league in the world. Get the right players in early and play as many pre-season games as we can. We have to hit the ground running next time around. All talk of a transitional season does is provide ready made excuses for another large dollop of mediocrity.

[blackpoolhibs]

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I don't think it is unrealistic to expect better than sixth place in the coming season and I hope Pat Fenlon aims to do better than that. We may have a major rebuilding job on our hands but the SPL isn't the toughest league in the world. Get the right players in early and play as many pre-season games as we can. We have to hit the ground running next time around. All talk of a transitional season does is provide ready made excuses for another large dollop of mediocrity.

[Macaroon]

We can remember as well, that Fenlon also has the window in January to strengthen the squad further. If we dont get the finished article done in the summer and are hovering mid-table come Christmas, then that will be a great base for Nutsy to push on further in January to build a squad to start challenging the teams above us. 4th/5th place will be brilliant for us next season.

Personally, I don't give a damn where we finish. As long as it's above Hearts

[keithkeith]

Absolutely not unrealistic. This proud Club should be going for "best of the rest" every season, i.e. 3rd place behind the Old Firm AS A MINIMUM!

There should be a belief (a stretch target if you like?) that we could, if we get a good run, a bit of luck, a few gems of players, an infrastructure to be proud of and have a fantastic support that makes our home games really, really tough for the opposition....

...that we could split the Old Firm, beat Hearts and challenge realistically for a domestic Cup.

That should be the vision. Nothing less...!

[PPZPOL]

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Is our level now scrapping with Killie, St Johnstone, Inverness, Aberdeen etc. I sincerely hope not, my expectaions levels this coming season will be 6th place anything else will be a bonus IMO.

Would love to scrap with St.J next season, they finished 17 points ahead of us so if we are nearer to them and if it is a direct fight for 6th place with them then that's progress.

There should be options in the transfer market, the last couple of days on SSN there have been a ton of players released, not all in our range but players will be available is the point I'm making. A last minute high profile signing if they become available just before the season starts is fine but I hope we don't sit about waiting for the guys who have run out of all options before assembling our squad. By 1st day of pre-season we should have the nucleus of the squad together, training together, bonding together, working on shape, working on tactics, working on defending.....infact working on EVERYTHING.

Meet up with possible targets.......give them a deadline, if no response or commitment then...BYE, PF moves on and finds someone who WANTS to be at ER.

[Macaroon]

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Absolutely not unrealistic. This proud Club should be going for "best of the rest" every season, i.e. 3rd place behind the Old Firm AS A MINIMUM!

There should be a belief (a stretch target if you like?) that we could, if we get a good run, a bit of luck, a few gems of players, an infrastructure to be proud of and have a fantastic support that makes our home games really, really tough for the opposition....

...that we could split the Old Firm, beat Hearts and challenge realistically for a domestic Cup.

That should be the vision. Nothing less...!

That's all very well, but as the OP is asking. Is spliting the old firm even remotely possible for next season?

[Macaroon]

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Would love to scrap with St.J next season, they finished 17 points ahead of us so if we are nearer to them and if it is a direct fight for 6th place with them then that's progress.

There should be options in the transfer market, the last couple of days on SSN there have been a ton of players released, not all in our range but players will be available is the point I'm making. A last minute high profile signing if they become available just before the season starts is fine but I hope we don't sit about waiting for the guys who have run out of all options before assembling our squad. By 1st day of pre-season we should have the nucleus of the squad together, training together, bonding together, working on shape, working on tactics, working on defending.....infact working on EVERYTHING.

Meet up with possible targets.......give them a deadline, if no response or commitment then...BYE, PF moves on and finds someone who WANTS to be at ER.

Posts like this get me WAY too excited for next season. I keep having to remind myself that it is Hibs we're talking about.

In nutsy we trust. Get the job done Paddy

[HFC 0-7]

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Now I know we'd like to think that we can challenge for 3rd/4th place but can we really expect to given the state we are in? Are we now so far behind Celtic, Rangers, Hearts,Dundee Utd, Motherwell that we need to lower our expectations and count 6th place as a success?

As each season goes by we have unrealistic illusions of how big a club we are and what we should be achieving because we are Hibs, yet the plain truth is we just don't seem to be able to meet these expectations and every season seems to be a transitional one. I for one was under no illusions when I started to follow Hibs, but it seems so long ago since I could enter each new season truly thinking we could challenge.

Is our level now scrapping with Killie, St Johnstone, Inverness, Aberdeen etc. I sincerely hope not, my expectaions levels this coming season will be 6th place anything else will be a bonus IMO.

I dontthink we are being un realistic especially when these expactations are the boards expectations. This essentially what they are selling us so we should be able to expect it. I would settle for a top 6 finish next season, some decent performances but most of all a showing from whatever team we have of some fight and pride.

[Fergus52]

Going on finances, attendance and fan base, we are Scotland's fourth or fifth biggest club.

So there is no reason why we shouldn't be fighting for 3rd or 4th each season.

However I will be happy with a top 6 finish next season as long as there is a clear improvement in the attitude and work ethic of the team.

[smurf]

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Going on finances, attendance and fan base, we are Scotland's fourth or fifth biggest club.

So there is no reason why we shouldn't be fighting for 3rd or 4th each season.

However I will be happy with a top 6 finish next season as long as there is a clear improvement in the attitude and work ethic of the team.

This. Says it all.

[Kato]

Given the history of the club and the fantastic fans we have I don't think we are being unrealistic.

Given the current encumbants who own and run the club maybe we are.

[Ryan91]

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That's all very well, but as the OP is asking. Is spliting the old firm even remotely possible for next season?

Nope, because there will only be one half of the old firm in the league next season (if everything goes well)

[keithkeith]

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That's all very well, but as the OP is asking. Is spliting the old firm even remotely possible for next season?

Sorry, read the OP as a generic question. Next season? Really perplexes me as to why we can't compete with St Johnstone!? Motherwell & Dundee Utd should keep their squad or improve, Hearts will have a temporary drop in quality but they always have fight and their youth might be talented as well, but surely next season we can be 6th place? Its hard for me to accept why we can't?

[G15 Hibs]

An improvement in attitude and effort is the least we can hope for next season. Hopefully this will go hand in hand with an improvement in quality, fingers crossed. Progress next season for me will be seeing this on the park and it should mean we're challenging for a top 6 place. Its a mearge ambition right enough, but after the last couple of seasons its maybe the best we can hope for. In subsequent seasons we can try and build on that. Nothing's going to be solved in one summer, given the re-building that's required.

My concern is that by, say, November we're maybe not setting the heather on fire, but not doing dreadfully either and are still in contention for top 6, there will be pressure put on the board to change the manager again because we're not sitting 3rd or 4th. We've seen it before and if that happens then its back to square one.

Next season will be all about patience.

[DH1875]

A top 6 finish and quarter finals/semi finals of the cups is the LEAST we should be expecting. No wonder we're in the crap we are, and players not giving a toss if this is seen as acceptable. Mixu and Yogi got sacked for less .

[lord bunberry]

we should be aiming for 3rd place as a minimum next season rangers are going to be struggling hearts are cutting back as are dundee utd. we should always looking to be finishing above the likes of motherwell killie and st johnstone. this is going to be a big season for us we simply cant afford it to be average or season ticket sales will plummet. im sure the board are well aware of this and will back fenlon with what ever money is available.

[RIP]

We are in the worst position for over a decade. At the moment we don't have a squad. We will start the season favourites or maybe jf with Ross County for relegation.

One of the biggest problems we have is our inability to differentiate between our long term aspirations and a realistic plan for climbing out of this mess.

We are in decline and we all need to play our part in digging ourselves out

[lord bunberry]

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We are in the worst position for over a decade. At the moment we don't have a squad. We will start the season favourites or maybe jf with Ross County for relegation.

One of the biggest problems we have is our inability to differentiate between our long term aspirations and a realistic plan for climbing out of this mess.

We are in decline and we all need to play our part in digging ourselves out

i hear what your saying there but if we sign 6 or 7 decent players then we wont be favourites for the drop. i know its easier said than done buts thats what the manager is paid to do. the board must give him the backing and hope he does the business the spl is not a great league and it we should be able to outspend teams like motherwell and killie

[Sammy7nil]

We have had TWO years of transition - Pat has a clean slate all the players there next season will be his, I have no doubt in the last few months Pat has had ideas and a plan to improve for next year.

I do not think it is unrelistic to finish above Ross County, St Johnstone, ICT, Killie, Aberdeen and Rangers youth team

[G15 Hibs]

I would say the last two years have been firefighting rather than transition. Transition implies change and improvement. These years have been about avoiding disaster without having the chance or ability to improve long terms.

Its a big summer ahead and isn't necessarily going to give us the finished article, given the changes that are required.

I really hope that folks aren't suggesting that unless we're challenging for 3rd, or even 2nd, we ditch the manager, get someone else in half way through the season and bring in another raft of emergeny signings in January.

As long as there's tangible improvement then I think we have to give that a chance and hopefully build on that.

[Sammy7nil]

[QUOTE=Euchrid;3242947]I would say the last two years have been firefighting rather than transition. Transition implies change and improvement. These years have been about avoiding disaster without having the chance or ability to improve long terms.

Its a big summer ahead and isn't necessarily going to give us the finished article, given the changes that are required.

I really hope that folks aren't suggesting that unless we're challenging for 3rd, or even 2nd, we ditch the manager, get someone else in half way through the season and bring in another raft of emergeny signings in January.

As long as there's tangible improvement then I think we have to give that a chance and hopefully build on that.[/QUOTE]

I agree and that tangible improvement must be a HUGE improvement in our home form - 2 wins in the league is Unacceptable.

[Pretty Boy]

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I would say the last two years have been firefighting rather than transition. Transition implies change and improvement. These years have been about avoiding disaster without having the chance or ability to improve long terms.

Its a big summer ahead and isn't necessarily going to give us the finished article, given the changes that are required.

I really hope that folks aren't suggesting that unless we're challenging for 3rd, or even 2nd, we ditch the manager, get someone else in half way through the season and bring in another raft of emergeny signings in January.

As long as there's tangible improvement then I think we have to give that a chance and hopefully build on that.

Exactly.

Whilst 6th place or whatever should never be set as a target for a club like Hibs we have to look objectively at the situation.

We are currently sitting with no recognised 1st team goalkeeper, no right back, a centre back pairing of Hanlon and O'Hanlon, a left back of Kujabi or.Booth, a midfield of Wotherspoon, Osbourne, Claros and Sproule with a forward line of Doyle and a youngster.

That's not much to build on. The SPL may be a poor league but of all the teams that kicked off last season we are the worst team left in it.

I just hope people show a bit patience. If we can get straight back up into 3rd or 4th then fantastic but i think we have to.be prepared for a 2 or 2 stage rebuilding job over the course of this summer, January and next summer. Dundee Utd is a much cited example and it took Levein a couple PF seasons to get them where they wanted to be.

[G15 Hibs]

Agree with Sammy7nil. Improvements in attitude and effort should at least make us more difficult to beat at ER, a ground visiting teams clearly love playing at. And, as supporters, we have to make sure we play our part in changing that.

It would be a start at least.

[Kris1875]

The season ahead will IMHO will be a long one , I think or hope PF had his eye on some good signings but if you think we're going to sign eleven mcpakes your mistaken I'd like to think pat will sign a strong nucleus to build on then possibly add a few loans in January then all going well add a few better players next summer . What we have to do is get behind these players whoever they are even if things aren't going to well because the atmosphere at ER was poisonous at times this year .(not all always uncalled for I may add)
We all want hibs to be challenging for 3rd but lets be realistic let's back the team as much as we can and lets see where it takes us as has been said before I would be happy with improvements not just on the pitch but off it . We will get there it just won't be overnight !! GGTTH !!

[IWasThere2016]

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I don't think it is unrealistic to expect better than sixth place in the coming season and I hope Pat Fenlon aims to do better than that. We may have a major rebuilding job on our hands but the SPL isn't the toughest league in the world. Get the right players in early and play as many pre-season games as we can. We have to hit the ground running next time around. All talk of a transitional season does is provide ready made excuses for another large dollop of mediocrity.

[SouthamptonHibs]

I think Hibs have got to deliver good football, a team that beats Hearts plus a good couple off cup runs and a 3rd / 4th finish in the league nexr season. The reason is we have sold say 10/11,000 season tickets due to final if Hibs want decent crowds its now or never. Another transitional season will see our ST holders drop by half easily. Loads off say "the hardcore fans" i no never renewed and loads got a ST purely to guarantee a final ticket. Fun summer ahead hail hail

[Sammy7nil]

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I think Hibs have got to deliver good football, a team that beats Hearts plus a good couple off cup runs and a 3rd / 4th finish in the league nexr season. The reason is we have sold say 10/11,000 season tickets due to final if Hibs want decent crowds its now or never. Another transitional season will see our ST holders drop by half easily. Loads off say "the hardcore fans" i no never renewed and loads got a ST purely to guarantee a final ticket. Fun summer ahead hail hail

Is that Fantasy or Fact ?