Generic Sevco / Rangers meltdown thread

[CropleyWasGod]

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http://www.philmacgiollabhain.ie/wha...g-on-at-ibrox/

this is a good read

Does he know about paragraphs?

It's all good from the point of view of us gloating, but it annoys the hell out of me (the business me, not the Hibby me) that such a review wasn't conducted at the very start of RFC MkII.

However, Llambias' comment that the whole thing needs to be closed down and restarted is quite encouraging.

[Smartie]

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Does he know about paragraphs?

It's all good from the point of view of us gloating, but it annoys the hell out of me (the business me, not the Hibby me) that such a review wasn't conducted at the very start of RFC MkII.

However, Llambias' comment that the whole thing needs to be closed down and restarted is quite encouraging.

Me too.

But I don't know if "the people" would have tolerated it at the time. There was still the feeling that they were a big club and that they had to blow fortunes on transfers - it's what they're all about.

They've had a few years trawling around the lower leagues with reality sinking in and I think that this time they might realise that there would be no third chance, and that the very existence of their club actually does mean a lot more to them than their delusions of grandeur.

[grunt]

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Does he know about paragraphs?

This really annoys me - he calls himself a journalist, author and blogger, yet he seems incapable of writing in a style which is half way readable. I guess he's a journalist in the same way that Sun reporters are journalists.

[lapsedhibee]

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Does he know about paragraphs?

Would that not be unnecessarily highfalutin, given that the target audience struggle to spell their own team's name?

[Callum_62]

See there wee just awared 204,000GBP for the development of Charlie Telfer - to be paid by Dundee UTD

[CropleyWasGod]

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See there wee just awared 204,000GBP for the development of Charlie Telfer - to be paid by Dundee UTD

Yep.

Agree with the principle, but the price is very steep IMO.

[jonty]

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See there wee just awared 204,000GBP for the development of Charlie Telfer - to be paid by Dundee UTD

I don't get the argument that they've used. Surely it was the companies that ran the club signed him up for a contract, paid his wages and developed him. He simply played one game in league one.
If there was any development monies due it should go into the creditors pot, not the current company running the club?
ie Season ticket income doesn't go to the club, it goes to the company? so why would income in this case?

CWG

[Pedantic_Hibee]

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See there wee just awared 204,000GBP for the development of Charlie Telfer - to be paid by Dundee UTD

How much did The Rangers want for him?

[CropleyWasGod]

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I don't get the argument that they've used. Surely it was the companies that ran the club signed him up for a contract, paid his wages and developed him. He simply played one game in league one.
If there was any development monies due it should go into the creditors pot, not the current company running the club?
ie Season ticket income doesn't go to the club, it goes to the company? so why would income in this case?

CWG

For me, it centres round the fact that NewHun took on (most of) the staff of OldHun, with all the rights and responsibilities that go with that. They are liable to pay the contracts, pensions, redundancies of the employees. .....the balance to that is that they should be entitled to the benefits of those employees as well.

Haven't seen the full report yet so don't know if the tribunal used that reason. Was it simply a case of "poor things need the money...just give it to them"?

[Bishop Hibee]

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How much did The Rangers want for him?

£200,000. What Newco want, Newco get. The SFA will never allow Newco to suffer after what happened to Oldco. Watch them bend over backwards to allow Ashley's de-facto ownership.

[PatHead]

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£200,000. What Newco want, Newco get. The SFA will never allow Newco to suffer after what happened to Oldco. Watch them bend over backwards to allow Ashley's de-facto ownership.

Yip, still think Dundee Utd will make good money from him though. Still don't see how Newco get the money. Can see where CWG was coming from but still think creditors should have got a proportion based on the length of time he was with Oldco rather than Newco.

[CropleyWasGod]

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Yip, still think Dundee Utd will make good money from him though. Still don't see how Newco get the money. Can see where CWG was coming from but still think creditors should have got a proportion based on the length of time he was with Oldco rather than Newco.

It will be interesting to see what the liquidator does now. If he thinks that he is due the cash, he will chase NewHun for it.

[PatHead]

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It will be interesting to see what the liquidator does now. If he thinks that he is due the cash, he will chase NewHun for it.

Yes £200k for training a guy for 2 years just doesn't sit right.

[AndyM_1875]

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Yip, still think Dundee Utd will make good money from him though. Still don't see how Newco get the money. Can see where CWG was coming from but still think creditors should have got a proportion based on the length of time he was with Oldco rather than Newco.

The player was TUPE'd over along with most other staff. The Newco bought the assets along with the brand and the history before the Oldco was handed to the Liquidators.
I'm really surprised at Dundee United. A consultation from a decent Employment Lawyer would have shown them their case was weak but lets be honest, Stephen Thomson has something of a blind spot when it comes to Rangers. He's pretty much incapable of being rational about them and that is something that goes back years.

[greenginger]

Trouble is, Rangers Football Club did'nt own or train the youth players.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/foot...rs/3643791.stm

Rangers Youth Development Company was wound up and struck off in 2013

[jacomo]

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That's correct, they had no option.

Didn't he take a pay cut, though?

Only once details of his pay became public and the orcs reacted did he 'volunteer' to take a pay cut, although only on a temporary basis. Not sure it's been confirmed whether or not this happened.

[jodjam]

Just seen on SSN that the Rangers have admitted exaggerating Saturday's crowd. Been revised down to 19k from 28k.

[lapsedhibee]

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Just seen on SSN that the Rangers have admitted exaggerating Saturday's crowd. Been revised down to 19k from 28k.

That's not exaggerating, though, is it? It's falsifying.

[AndyM_1875]

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I'd take him more seriously if he didn't write like an embittered blow hard.

Pretendy fake wannabe sectarian bigot hack who peddles myths started in Celtic pubs.

When he starts a line with "I am hearing..." or "My sources tell me.." you know its bull****.

[Billy Whizz]

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Just seen on SSN that the Rangers have admitted exaggerating Saturday's crowd. Been revised down to 19k from 28k.

Not many walk up fans = less money in the kitty

[worcesterhibby]

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Trouble is, Rangers Football Club did'nt own or train the youth players.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/foot...rs/3643791.stm

Rangers Youth Development Company was wound up and struck off in 2013

You should email that to Stephen Thompson

[jodjam]

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Not many walk up fans = less money in the kitty

They are claiming its non attendance of ST holders. Other than a vanity exercise what benefit is there in claiming a larger attendance

[Jim44]

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They are claiming its non attendance of ST holders. Other than a vanity exercise what benefit is there in claiming a larger attendance

Exactly. If it were 'pay at the door' punters, they would be liable for income tax and vat. Unless of-course, HMRC are so lax that they don't take account of what clubs publish for attendances.

[greenginger]

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They are claiming its non attendance of ST holders. Other than a vanity exercise what benefit is there in claiming a larger attendance

The Yams , Celtic and Rangers all claim attendances far in access of the numbers who actually " attend " by claiming all season ticket holders as attendees.

I don't know if its just big team bull-***** or their marketing departments can use the inflated figures to get advertising/sponsorship deals.

The Yams put out a figure of over 15,000 for the QoS game on Saturday when there were gaps all over the stadium and a near empty visitors stand.

Yet , when its a cup-tie like Celtic the week before, when the attendance has to be accurate, only 12,500 attend and over 3000 are visitors.

[lapsedhibee]

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The Yams , Celtic and Rangers all claim attendances far in access of the numbers who actually " attend " by claiming all season ticket holders as attendees.

I don't know if its just big team bull-***** or their marketing departments can use the inflated figures to get advertising/sponsorship deals.

The Yams put out a figure of over 15,000 for the QoS game on Saturday when there were gaps all over the stadium and a near empty visitors stand.

Yet , when its a cup-tie like Celtic the week before, when the attendance has to be accurate, only 12,500 attend and over 3000 are visitors.

I could easily believe that there were more at the QoS than the Celtc game. Yams don't do turning up when they know they're going to get cuffed.

[Smartie]

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You should email that to Stephen Thompson

I still don't get Stephen Thomson's point though.

I think he's an opportunist here - he's trying to pull a fast one and exploit the whole Rangers/ The Rangers/ Sevco shenanigans.

The young lad was trained by another club (we can argue all day about whether it's one club or two) and United have taken that player. They should be due the money for the development of that player, no question. The only question should be how much goes to the new club and how much goes to the creditors of the old one.

As Hibs fans it is funny to see United doing this but to me it looks a bit like a wee boy poking a big, wounded animal with a stick. One day it's going to get better and it won't be happy.

I reckon it's only a matter of time before The Rangers are back at the top of the top league (it's what the authorities want). They'll get through their trials and tribulations mainly because there's so bloody many of them.

Bigger teams from higher leagues taking players from smaller leagues and smaller teams without paying what is due for the development of them is a terrible thing for Scottish football and given their habit of bringing through decent young Scottish players of late, United need to be careful with the point they're trying to make here.

[Elephant Stone]

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I still don't get Stephen Thomson's point though.

I think he's an opportunist here - he's trying to pull a fast one and exploit the whole Rangers/ The Rangers/ Sevco shenanigans.

The young lad was trained by another club (we can argue all day about whether it's one club or two) and United have taken that player. They should be due the money for the development of that player, no question. The only question should be how much goes to the new club and how much goes to the creditors of the old one.

As Hibs fans it is funny to see United doing this but to me it looks a bit like a wee boy poking a big, wounded animal with a stick. One day it's going to get better and it won't be happy.

I reckon it's only a matter of time before The Rangers are back at the top of the top league (it's what the authorities want). They'll get through their trials and tribulations mainly because there's so bloody many of them.

Bigger teams from higher leagues taking players from smaller leagues and smaller teams without paying what is due for the development of them is a terrible thing for Scottish football and given their habit of bringing through decent young Scottish players of late, United need to be careful with the point they're trying to make here.

I don't get this point, if they've not got a case then they've not got a case, but if he thinks he can get a better deal for his club then you're saying he shouldn't cause, basically, Rangers are going to be big again and that's frightening?

[Smartie]

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I don't get this point, if they've not got a case then they've not got a case, but if he thinks he can get a better deal for his club then you're saying he shouldn't cause, basically, Rangers are going to be big again and that's frightening?

I don't think he has a point - I think United are due them the money. I think the only matter is where the money goes and that this has been a misguided personal crusade as Thomson (more than anyone else) has a serious issue with Rangers.

Celtic are way bigger than all the other clubs in this country and Rangers have the potential to get back up there. Establishing a precedent whereby higher league, bigger, stronger teams can take players from smaller, weaker teams (United are currently stronger, The Rangers are weaker) without paying what they are due (which is what I think Thomson is trying to do) is dangerous because you can bet your boots that if Rangers return to their previous position every Scott Brown, Steven Fletcher, David Goodwillie or Ryan Gauld would end up at Ibrox with "wee clubs" like us and United receiving a pittance.

[AndyM_1875]

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I don't think he has a point - I think United are due to the money. I think the only matter is where the money goes and that this has been a misguided personal crusade as Thomson (more than anyone else) has a serious issue with Rangers.

This is the nub of it. Thomson is completely incapable of rational thought process when it comes top Rangers. He sees all sorts of ancient historic grievances and wrongs done to Dundee United by Rangers and he now just lashes out at them at every opportunity. Personally I'd rather my club kept its dignity.

Furthermore Dundee United seem now to be the only major club still actively poking this whole Rangers thing, no other club is saying anything although it's pretty obvious that Celtic at boardroom level are desperate for Rangers to win the Championship this year to fill the £10m a year hole in their accounts the gap leaves them with.

[Spike Mandela]

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This is the nub of it. Thomson is completely incapable of rational thought process when it comes top Rangers. He sees all sorts of ancient historic grievances and wrongs done to Dundee United by Rangers and he now just lashes out at them at every opportunity. Personally I'd rather my club kept its dignity.

Furthermore Dundee United seem now to be the only major club still actively poking this whole Rangers thing, no other club is saying anything although it's pretty obvious that Celtic at boardroom level are desperate for Rangers to win the Championship this year to fill the £10m a year hole in their accounts the gap leaves them with.

Rangers need reminded at every opportunity that they are a different club rather than meekly accepting their agenda all the time. The more Thomsons and less media apologists and sympathisers the better.