Generic Sevco / Rangers meltdown thread

[John_the_angus_hibby]

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Jane Lewis ‏@JaneLewisSportNo radio or TV interviews on the BBC from #Rangers 2day. Sorry about that folks - BBC not invited 2 2days media conference.

Wow, a wee 3rd Division side a bit above themselves or what! Do they realise they are just doing the rest of the footballing world a favour? Less Sevco nonsense clogging up my TV/Internet etc. life ban please guys!

[PatHead]

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Wow, a wee 3rd Division side a bit above themselves or what! Do they realise they are just doing the rest of the footballing world a favour? Less Sevco nonsense clogging up my TV/Internet etc. life ban please guys!

Sad thing is that the lead story on BBC Sport will probably be about not getting into the press conference.

[JeMeSouviens]

We haven't had much for the accountants to get their teeth into recently, so here's an interesting post on scottishfootballmonitor (son of the RTC blog) ...

goosygoosy says:
September 27, 2012 at 21:53


Well well well
Some news from the Spivs
Whyte’s Liberty Corporate applied to be liquidated on 25 Sept 2012 (See notice at Companies House)
That’s interesting because………
Liberty Corporate holds a floating charge over the assets of Whyte’s RFCG. It is wholly owned by Whyte’s BVI co Liberty Capital
RFCG hold a £27.5M floating charge over the Ibrox and MP assets of RFC (I.A.)
So
In the world of Spivery the liquidation of Liberty Corporate has only one meaning
It means Craig Whyte’s floating charge over RFC(IA) is alive and well and getting ready to move somewhere even safer than Liberty Corporate
And
If Craig Whyte’s floating charge over RFC (IA) assets is alive and well the one place it will certainly not be at present is in the RFC(IA) List of Creditors where the departure of assets makes it worthless.
Meaning
The RFCG floating charge must have ceased being an RFC (IA) debt as part of the deal under which Sevco 5088 acquired the assets of RFC (IA) for £5.5m
The $64 question now is:
Which Co now holds the RFCG floating charge?
It has not been registered as an fc charge against either Sevco5088 or Sevco Scotland.
So where is it?
The answer I reckon lies in the structure of the Sale Agreement
Under this agreement a company called “Sevco” were committed to buy certain assets if the CVA sale to Sevco 5088 was rejected by Creditors People thought that “Sevco” and Sevco5088 were the same company.
This sale duly took place. The title deeds for Ibrox and MP assets were transferred from RFC (IA) to separate legal entity, Sevco Scotland apparently without passing through the books of Sevco 5088. If they had passed through the books of Sevco 5088 then Sevco5088 would have been obliged to register any floating charges that moved with these assets. This did not happen.
We know the Scottish Sports Council had a floating charge over MP and were a Creditor of RFC (IA). On 6 July 2012 Sevco Scotland registered this SSC floating charge at Companies House. This suggested it was legal for a floating charge to be reassigned from RFC (IA) direct to Sevco Scotland without passing through Sevco 5088 books and thus having to be registered by Sevco5088
So if it was legal to assign the SSC floating charge to an independent legal entity Sevco Scotland then it was equally possible to reassign the RFCG floating charge to yet another independent legal entity
Here’s what may have happened
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Assume that both Sevco5088 and Sevco Scotland are owned by a parent company called Sevco plc. which is registered offshore (perhaps in the BVI where Liberty Capital is registered)
Sevco as parent co of Sevco5088 is also legally entitled to buy RFC (IA) assets for £5.5m This seems a bargain price particularly since it will be reduced by £2.75m if players refuse to be transferred for a fee. Since this happened in practice the real purchase price was probably around £2.75m
Sevco plc. was able to acquire these assets for a bargain £2.75m because it accepted responsibility for a Ticketus contract and 3 floating charge debts owed to RFCG, Close Leasing and the Scottish Sports Council
So
D&P are instructed that everything bought from RFC (IA) by Sevco 5088 is to be transferred from RFC (IA) to Sevco plc. This allows Sevco5088 to drop out of the picture altogether. We thus move from a scenario where RFC (IA) assets are being sold to a UK Co (Sevco5088) to one where RFC (IA) assets are being sold to an offshore co (Sevco plc.)
Sevco plc. then transfers the SSC floating charge plus Ibrox and MP to its subsidiary co Sevco Scotland. This means Sevco Scotland owes its parent co big bucks for these valuable assets
Sevco plc. retains the Ticketus contract together with the RFCG and Close Leasing floating charges. over Ibrox and MP. As an offshore co Sevco plc. Is not obliged to register the RFCG and Close Leasing floating charges at Companies House.
By taking on these floating charges Sevco plc. have to pay Whyte £27.5m (or whatever lower figure they agree) to cancel the FC .Similarly , Sevco plc. have to pay Close Leasing to cancel their FC
We thus end up with the following situation
Sevco Scotland owe their parent co for the value of the assets transferred (perhaps the £50m recently quoted by a Sevco Scotland Director)
Sevco plc. owe CW some agreed figure to cancel out his floating charge
Sevco plc. owe Ticketus the right to sell £27m of STs over the next few years
A share issue takes place which enables Sevco Scotland to reduce its debt to parent co Sevco plc.
Sevco plc. Then pay off Close Leasing and RFCG with some of the fund raising proceeds
Ticketus get a staged payment on their £27m debt as their share of the fund raising
Everybody lives happily ever after
Apart from TRFC the “football club” which is stuck with debt owed to its parent co Sevco plc. and a Ticketus deal that will last for years
Plus of course
Any fans who think that by investing in the fundraising they will be getting better quality players on the park

[Caversham Green]

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We haven't had much for the accountants to get their teeth into recently, so here's an interesting post on scottishfootballmonitor (son of the RTC blog) ...

That all looks seriously flawed to me.

The first flaw is that while there was a floating charge in favour of Craig Whyte's companies, there was no relevant debt according to the documents issued by D&P. In any case floating charges don't attach themselves to specific assets in the way that fixed charges do, so a floating charge wouldn't move to Sevco with Ibrox, Murray Park etc. Besides which, the properties were not owned by RFCG, so the floating charge could not relate to those assets.

On the Sevco side, it seems pretty clear that the assets were sold to Sevco (Scotland) Ltd. While it's possible that they have since been sold on, the offshore Sevco plc looks like a figment of sheer fantasy. It will become clear if they still belong to Sevco (Scotland) Ltd - now The Rangers Football Club Ltd - if and when they seek to become a plc and issue shares because they will issue a prospectus outlining the assets owned.

In other words, I'm not entirely convinced.

[R'Albin]

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Cool, what's he doing on Hibs.net?

Winning - as always.

[The Hibee Harp]

If this Link is accurate it seems Charles Green will do anything to whip up hysteria amongst the blue hordes. http://www.twitlonger.com/show/jf4juv

Why is he meeting with the Ulster Unionist Party Leader? well, we know but you know what I mean!
A couple of other points - Rangers wont play in the SPL again whilst he's involved
Orange top rearing it's ugly head again


One thing this whole Rangers saga has done is to set Scotland back many, many years because to me it appears there is far more noisy bigots than before.

[RosComain]

^yup. Core values really come to the fore in times of adversity. Totally rotten institution.

[joe breezy]

Backward bassas

Perhaps they should just stay in Northern Ireland...?

[Tynie01011973]

http://local.stv.tv/glasgow/192429-r...medium=twitter

Diddy club feign outrage shocker !

[Hibercelona]

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http://local.stv.tv/glasgow/192429-r...medium=twitter

Diddy club feign outrage shocker !

They really have no sense of irony whatsoever. No sense of shame either.

This new club are certainly living up to the name of the old one.

[Baldy Foghorn]

It would have suited me down to the ground, if this vile corrupt institution had died.....

Mr Greene keeps stoking fires with outrageous comments, and he genuinely believes he has been wronged by SFA/SPL....This has been a farce from day 1, and SFA really botched the whole saga up.....

Now Greene has been canvassing unionists in Belfast for funds and is exploring the possibility of an orange top....Bigotry and sectarianism is alive and well it seems, so long as it brings them revenues....This just whips up the masses of knuckle-draggers into a frenzy....

I can't believe it, I really thought they could not get any more vile, but I have been proved wrong......

[basehibby]

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If this Link is accurate it seems Charles Green will do anything to whip up hysteria amongst the blue hordes. http://www.twitlonger.com/show/jf4juv

Why is he meeting with the Ulster Unionist Party Leader? well, we know but you know what I mean!
A couple of other points - Rangers wont play in the SPL again whilst he's involved
Orange top rearing it's ugly head again


One thing this whole Rangers saga has done is to set Scotland back many, many years because to me it appears there is far more noisy bigots than before.

Deary me! I had hoped that the new incarnation of Rangers might emerge as a club befitting the 21st century - but it seems that this idiot Green is determined to drag them back to (or maybe just keep them at) the values of 1690 etc.

If it were at all possible, Sevco seems to be developing into an even more detestable institution than the old huns!

Hope the spl/sfa/league/taxman/anyone else with the opportunity hammer the inbred ****wits to the fullest extent possible!

[LeighLoyal]

Green (aka Charlie Bucket Mouth) is a carpet bagger, opportunist and fly by night, he's preaching to the bigot WATP choir and giving them what they want to hear. There's no depths he won't sink to when it comes to covering all the hun bases, orange tops et al. Stage one: ingratiate yourself with the zombie horde, make them believe you are a fan, repeat the mantra that newco = oldco, and they are victims of a conspiracy. Stage two: once you have the horde's season money build a siege mentality, keep using the 'we' word at every turn. 'We've been punished enough... We won't play in the spl...WATP...' Make them believe your struggle is their struggle... defiance sells! Stage three: when you've whipped the horde into a sufficient frenzy of hostile paranoia, fleece the inbred numbskulls for a 49% stake in Sevco Scotland. Stage four: vanish into the ether with a suitcase of hun loot and take the first flight to Monaco. Stage five: we all laugh at the bigot Orc sc um again!

[LeighLoyal]

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how about ' the Yorkshire Lipper ' ?

Charlie Bucket Mouth. knew I'd get it. Sally Honka's Charlie and the Bigot Factory.

[grunt]

Tam Cowan quite amusing about the Rangers complaints against the BBC and his show

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/f...d-ally-1349776

After pelters we got for radio show, did Ally actually hear it?
THE fact the BBC is bending over backwards to accommodate Rangers with live coverage of matches from Division Three should end any notion of bias.

WHEN I heard Rangers had lodged a complaint with the BBC, I immediately assumed it was on the grounds that even the folk at Ibrox were getting fed up with the wall-to-wall coverage of a Third Division club...
The Ibrox fans seem to be offended by just about everything these days – zombie banners, TV clips, paying tax – but imagine anyone at the club having the brass neck to accuse BBC Scotland of anti-Gers bias?!
After hearing that cracker, I imagine the latest floods were caused by supporters of every other club in the country peeing themselves laughing.
Have Rangers forgotten it was a BBC Scotland documentary that first alerted their fans to the dodgy dealings of a certain Craig Whyte?

In terms of broadcast coverage, the Beeb have hardly swept Rangers under the carpet since the club started a new life in the Third Division.

BBC Alba provided live coverage of their run in the Ramsdens Cup, while Radio Scotland’s Sportsound programme has suddenly started doing full commentaries on Division Three matches.
And, as much as I’d love to think Sportscene elected to screen the League Cup clash at Ibrox in midweek as it featured the SPL table-toppers from Fir Park, I doubt that was the case.
Anti-Rangers bias? Gie’s peace.
At the risk of doing an Arsene Wenger, I’ve never watched Mad Men and I didn’t see Sportscene on Wednesday night.
However, as co-host of Off The Ball, I can certainly give you my take on the other part of this story – the “Super Ally or Fat Sally” debate.
First up, did Ally McCoist actually listen to last week’s show? Or, as I suspect, is there a wee bit of Chinese whispers going on here?
I’ve received emails from Rangers supporters who did tune into last Saturday’s programme and can’t understand what all the fuss is about.
Give it a bash on the iPlayer, Ally, and then tell me what you think.
On the back of the Ramsdens Cup exit at the hands of Queen of the South, McCoist should actually have thanked us for a show of support at a time when many punters (yes, including Rangers fans) had started talking about shoogly pegs.
Sure, we’d a couple of listeners who described the Rangers boss as Fat Sally (a panto-style nickname that appears on most football messageboards).
But just about every other text and email hailed McCoist as Super Ally.
For example, Kevin from Perth said: “Super Ally defo! On and off the pitch, he’s simply one of Scottish football’s greatest ever legends.”
And Jacqueline from Knightswood said: “Super Ally for me. He was my hero growing up and, no matter what happens, he’ll always be a legend with the Rangers fans for his loyalty. By the way I still wouldn’t say no (nudge-nudge, wink-wink).”
And this “infuriated” and “appalled” the Rangers boss? Deary me, how the hell did he ever survive his playing days when he was famously “getting slaughtered”?
The four people in the studio (I know Ally always likes full transparency on these matters) were myself, Stuart Cosgrove, former player James Grady and the Daily Mail sportswriter Brian Marjoribanks.
And every one of us waxed lyrical about Super Ally. We blew so much smoke up Coisty’s backside Chick Young’s probably now got a bad cough.
Stuart saluted the Muirton Park legend who thrilled St Johnstone fans as a teenage goalscoring sensation.
Wee James had a constant smile on his face as he recalled tales of Ally on and off the pitch.
And Brian from the Daily Mail also talked up McCoist big style and told how he was an absolute joy to interview at a press conference.
Me? My take on Super Ally was actually described as “nauseating” by a fellow Motherwell fan! Phew, no wonder Ally was “angry” and “disgusted”, eh?
Cards on the table, folks, as I mentioned on another show just a couple of weeks ago, I could never bring myself to criticise Ally.
Frankly, I’d sooner go for a high ball with Lee “Elbows” McCulloch.
If I came home one night and found Ally in bed with my missus, I’d insist she made him something to eat when he was finished.
Slagging the guy would be a bit unfair – totally disingenuous, in fact – as he’s provided so much great material over the past 20 years.
But let’s be honest, McCoist has enjoyed a very easy ride from the BBC (and every other media organisation for that matter) and, if you don’t believe me, just think of the reaction to all those dodgy results over the past 18 months.
Was he asked even one tough question?
By the way, were my eyes deceiving me or did the papers really print a Samaritans helpline for anyone disturbed by yesterday’s front page story? No point. The number would have been engaged thanks to the calls from Motherwell.
Personally speaking, I’m glad to get that Mickey Mouse competition out of the way so we can fully concentrate on winning the SPL.
And I’m not surprised we lost at Ibrox. How many times in a cup competition does the wee team raise their game against the big boys?
Seriously, this was our best chance to win at Ibrox for the first time since 1997 but we failed spectacularly and the Motherwell fans who bought our entire ticket allocation were let down.
If losing two goals in the last six minutes at Pittodrie was careless, I think getting turned over by a bunch of kids from the Third Division is downright sloppy.
Annan, Berwick, Peterhead, QoS and Brechin have all given Rangers more of a game this season, while East Stirling and Montrose went one better than Well by scoring at Ibrox.
For 15 years now, Motherwell appear to touch cloth from the minute the bus peels off the M8 and, while we don’t have the money to buy one, do you think we could snap up a psychologist to help address our mental block at Ibrox?
Needless to say, the Rangers fans with whom I exchange regular emails had a field day at my expense.
Still, even though I got an absolute roasting, I’d like to thank the Gers supporters for ending their emails on a positive note.
Yep, it’s amazing how many of bluenoses signed off by saying:
“I still hope your team wins the league.” Wonder why?
And finally...
DESPITE our embarrassing display at Ibrox, it’s good to see Celtic are still taking Motherwell seriously.
Ahead of today’s clash at Fir Park, I see they played a closed-door game against Raith Rovers.

[grunt]

Here's RTC stirring the pot again... (read from the bottom up)

Rangers Tax-Case‏@rangerstaxcase As with all things law, there will be someone willing to argue their case, but anyone saying that they have no exposure on this is incorrect


1hRangers Tax-Case‏@rangerstaxcase
Point about Reg 72 is that the players- by signing loan apps- were active participants rather than innocent victims of employer action.




1hRangers Tax-Case‏@rangerstaxcase
A good (and fuller) interpretation of HMRC Reg 72 than is possible on twitter can be read here: http://bit.ly/VeJSIz




1hRangers Tax-Case‏@rangerstaxcase
There is scope to debate the issue (and it is debated regularly). The point being that players have good reason to worry about liability.





1hRangers Tax-Case‏@rangerstaxcase
Regulation 72 applies to: "...employees...who are in a position to arrange for their earnings to be paid without deduction of tax"




1hRangers Tax-Case‏@rangerstaxcase
Just following the debate on whether RFC players could be held liable for unpaid tax, HMRC Regulation 72: http://bit.ly/Sd24TX states...

[Gettin' Auld]

Something for the accountants to get their teeth into.

http://www.rangers.co.uk/images/stat..._Creditors.pdf

I like this part......................
The Joint Administrators have continued to review the claims made by HMRC in the administration. The claims are largely made up of determinations issued by HMRC in accordance with Regulation 80, penalties and outstanding PAYE/NIC. The Joint Administrators have adjudicated on these claims and confirmed to HMRC that for voting purposes, their claim will be admitted for voting purposes at £94,426,217.22.

[greenginger]

£ 2.5 Million in fees for Duff and Duffer, £1.5 million for various legal fees, £ 4 million trading loss.

Result ----- Creditors get S.F. A. how to run an administration.

[HoboHarry]

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Something for the accountants to get their teeth into.

http://www.rangers.co.uk/images/stat..._Creditors.pdf

I like this part......................
The Joint Administrators have continued to review the claims made by HMRC in the administration. The claims are largely made up of determinations issued by HMRC in accordance with Regulation 80, penalties and outstanding PAYE/NIC. The Joint Administrators have adjudicated on these claims and confirmed to HMRC that for voting purposes, their claim will be admitted for voting purposes at £94,426,217.22.

I don't really understand much of this. Who are HMRC going to chase to get back that fantastic sum of money?

[green glory]

http://bit.ly/QRv52j

D+P estimate the tax bill at 96 big ones plus. The big tax case verdict is imminent now too. Cue HMRC pursuing this further with the indivuduals involved. Hopefully the transfer of the assets will be the focus for them.

[Mikey]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotlan...-west-19786824

More on the £94m tax bill.

[YehButNoBut]

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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotlan...-west-19786824

More on the £94m tax bill.

Unbelievalble amount due to the country and also the administrators are claiming £3,121,683 in fees, are both these amounts due from the "new" Rangers or otherwise, can't see HMRC ever getting their money back.

Suppose they could force the sale of Ibrox & Murray Park to recover some of it.

[Jim44]

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Unbelievalble amount due to the country and also the administrators are claiming £3,121,683 in fees, are both these amounts due from the "new" Rangers or otherwise, can't see HMRC ever getting their money back.

Suppose they could force the sale of Ibrox & Murray Park to recover some of it.

Is it not the old company who would be liable for all the money due? If the old company no longer exists, are they not pursuing phantom money? A waste of time and even more of the taxpayers' money. No doubt this apparently meaningless exercise will be coining in cash for someone. Are we not talking here purely about legal principles with no material consequences for any 'injured parties'?

[Caversham Green]

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Unbelievalble amount due to the country and also the administrators are claiming £3,121,683 in fees, are both these amounts due from the "new" Rangers or otherwise, can't see HMRC ever getting their money back.

Suppose they could force the sale of Ibrox & Murray Park to recover some of it.

No, it's all due from the real Rangers. HMRC will get most of what is left after D&P and then BDO take their fees, but that will be very little.

HMRC might chase the directors of the old club and the players who benefitted from the EBTs if they feel there's a chance of success and also D&P if they feel the assets were sold at undervalue, but it seems likely that the money is lost - effectively stolen from all of us.

[YehButNoBut]

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No, it's all due from the real Rangers. HMRC will get most of what is left after D&P and then BDO take their fees, but that will be very little.

HMRC might chase the directors of the old club and the players who benefitted from the EBTs if they feel there's a chance of success and also D&P if they feel the assets were sold at undervalue, but it seems likely that the money is lost - effectively stolen from all of us.

Scandalous that this can happen yet they get to keep Ibrox & Murray Park and get to sign players no other Scottish club can afford (Celtic apart) and they still feel hard done by.

[Caversham Green]

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Scandalous that this can happen yet they get to keep Ibrox & Murray Park and get to sign players no other Scottish club can afford (Celtic apart) and they still feel hard done by.

The thing is it's not 'them' that now own the properties. The way the law of the land sees it the club/company that owed all that money has closed down and sold off all its assets to pay as much of the debt as it could. The company that now calls itself Rangers bought the assets (very cheaply IMO) and is now operating in SFL 3 but it has no legal connection to the real Rangers (and therefore no history).

That's how the law views it and it's also how UEFA and FIFA see it. The scandalous part is that the Scottish football authorities have done everything they could to avoid that interpretation and, as you say "Rangers" still feel hard done by - although that's no more than you would expect from a crook like Charles Green.

[Caversham Green]

Celtic's lawyers chasing Craig Whyte (remember him?) now.

http://scotslawthoughts.wordpress.co...arper-macleod/

[Seveno]

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Celtic's lawyers chasing Craig Whyte (remember him?) now.

http://scotslawthoughts.wordpress.co...arper-macleod/

So why ?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotlan...-west-19815528

[Moulin Yarns]

Messrs Whyte and Murray might be getting a bit worried about their 'non payment' of tax

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-19819177

[WindyMiller]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/19826914