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View Poll Results: What is your attitude to a new "Rangers" entering at Div1?

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  • Opposed - and will walk away from Scottish professional football

    533 53.09%
  • Opposed - but will continue to support the game.

    447 44.52%
  • In favour.

    24 2.39%
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  1. #1621
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  3. #1622
    @hibs.net private member Viva_Palmeiras's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aljo7-0 View Post
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    It's not really my field but by definition a personal right is exactly that it is personal to the individual and cannot be transferred to another. For example if we were neighbours and I granted you a personal right to walk through my garden to the bus stop - then you personally get the right to do so but if you sold your house to Jo Bloggs he would not get the right to as you could not assign it. I would need to give him a fresh right.

    I guess the article/administrators are saying that the Season Ticket holders get a personal right to a ticket for each home game for their payment for the Season Ticket money. The personal right must come from Rangers to the seat for each game therefore it cannot be assigned to Ticketus as Ticketus do not own the seats and cannot give the personal right to the Season Ticket holder to use the seat.
    But then again I'm a bit confused by this as you would have thought the contract between Ticketus and Rangers was some sort of loan agreement with the repayments due to Ticketus being dependant on how many personal rights Rangers gave out by way of Season Tickets sales rather than Rangers assigning the rights to Ticketus or something like that
    How can any contract of this nature then stand up to legal scrutiny ?
    Were tickets effectively sold something that could never ever be fulfilled?

    Money for nothin'
    And the chicks for free ;)

    Ticketus were at pains to state that they were not in the business of dealing out loans So me confuzzed
    Last edited by Viva_Palmeiras; 28-02-2012 at 08:32 PM.
    "We know the people who have invested so far are simple fans." Vladimir Romanov - Scotsman 10th December 2012
    "Romanov was like a breath of fresh air - laced with cyanide." Me.

  4. #1623
    @hibs.net private member aljo7-0's Avatar
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    Yes I'm confused too. Without sight of the contract we can only guess at what is says but having examined a few contracts in my time there is every chance I'd simply be more confused after reading it!
    Whilst we are guessing as to what the it might say, the one certainty about the contract is that it will state in 50,000 words what could be reasonably stated in 5,000 These big commercial contracts are far from plain reading and in many cases far from plain English.

  5. #1624
    Solipsist Eyrie's Avatar
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    Not a lawyer, so this may be a long shot ....

    A season ticket gives the holder the ability to purchase their seat for the following season if they choose to renew, so I suspect that may be the "personal right" referred to. I'm not sure if this is a contractual right however.

    The Ticketus deal has been described as Rangers selling the season tickets for the next four years (three if you believe Whyte), which explains why there is VAT due now and not annually. So it could be that Rangers sold the right to buy a ticket for the same seat each year which they are not entitled to do.

    That would make the deal null and void, getting Rangers off the hook for the £4m VAT they are due, but meaning that they owe Ticketus £24m. And since they don't have that money, Whyte's guarantee will be called in.

  6. #1625
    @hibs.net private member CropleyWasGod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VivaPalmeiras View Post
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    How can any contract of this nature then stand up to legal scrutiny ?
    Were tickets effectively sold something that could never ever be fulfilled?

    Money for nothin'
    And the chicks for free ;)

    Ticketus were at pains to state that they were not in the business of dealing out loans So me confuzzed
    Definitely not a loan. Ticketus bought ST's from RFC (or perhaps the "rights" to a share of future sales). They would recover their cash from the actual ST sales, plus a profit.

  7. #1626
    Quote Originally Posted by Eyrie View Post
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    A season ticket gives the holder the ability to purchase their seat for the following season if they choose to renew
    No it doesn't, it simply entitles them to have that seat for that season.

    It's the goodwill and good business sense that means the club (in this case Rangers) allow people to renew the same seat. There's absolutely no requirement for them to do it if they didn't want to.

  8. #1627
    @hibs.net private member CropleyWasGod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eyrie View Post
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    Not a lawyer, so this may be a long shot ....

    A season ticket gives the holder the ability to purchase their seat for the following season if they choose to renew, so I suspect that may be the "personal right" referred to. I'm not sure if this is a contractual right however.

    The Ticketus deal has been described as Rangers selling the season tickets for the next four years (three if you believe Whyte), which explains why there is VAT due now and not annually. So it could be that Rangers sold the right to buy a ticket for the same seat each year which they are not entitled to do.

    That would make the deal null and void, getting Rangers off the hook for the £4m VAT they are due, but meaning that they owe Ticketus £24m. And since they don't have that money, Whyte's guarantee will be called in.
    So Ticketus call in CW's guarantee....

    CW calls in his guarantee.... and gets Ibrox.

    CW sells Ibrox to pay Ticketus.

    Assets stripped.

    RFC move to Bellahouston Park

    CW is down £18m

    Bingo
    Last edited by CropleyWasGod; 28-02-2012 at 09:53 PM.

  9. #1628
    First Team Breakthrough John_the_angus_hibby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod View Post
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    To be fair to them both, it was Jackson who was talking about CW using the Ticketus money to pay off LBG as long ago as last summer. Traynor has come to it later, but he has been banging that particular drum for a while now and has not been soft on CW
    I obviously don't read that rag often enough then! Surprised by Jackson, but fair play to him if that's the case. Cheers for raising that.


    Sent from another universe!

  10. #1629
    Solipsist Eyrie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barney McGrew View Post
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    No it doesn't, it simply entitles them to have that seat for that season.

    It's the goodwill and good business sense that means the club (in this case Rangers) allow people to renew the same seat. There's absolutely no requirement for them to do it if they didn't want to.
    So it's not a contractual right then. Sinks the rest of my idea :(

  11. #1630
    @hibs.net private member cabbageandribs1875's Avatar
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    http://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/scot...Dave-King.html



    RANGERS director Dave King's multi-million pound vineyard is back on the market — after claims an auction to sell it was rigged.

    The sprawling South African estate was seized by officials over a £250million tax bill.

    appears to have all the necessary credentials to be the next owner at hunbrox

  12. #1631
    @hibs.net private member greenginger's Avatar
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    Sky Sports News published a list of Rangers employees. Can't make a link but this is the numbers.



    First team squad 32
    Coaches 11
    U/19's 35
    Academy coaches 7
    Media/PR 13
    Marketing 22
    Various other pen-pushers 57


    Total 177 not including match day


    I think there is room for a bit of trimming ! 22 in marketing WTF ?

  13. #1632
    Coaching Staff Ozyhibby's Avatar
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    Be a bad time to lose folk from marketing just before marching season.

  14. #1633
    @hibs.net private member ian cruise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thecat23 View Post
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    By the way out of interest why is Ibrox called Castle Grayskull? Wasn't that He-Man's pad? He-Man was a goody and Grayskull was the power of all things good!! Wasn't Snake Mountain Skeletor's home? On another note He Man had a shan hair do but i wouldn't tell him that.
    Possibly my favourite post in Hibs.net history.

  15. #1634
    @hibs.net private member
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    Quote Originally Posted by greenginger View Post
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    Sky Sports News published a list of Rangers employees. Can't make a link but this is the numbers.



    First team squad 32
    Coaches 11
    U/19's 35
    Academy coaches 7
    Media/PR 13
    Marketing 22
    Various other pen-pushers 57


    Total 177 not including match day


    I think there is room for a bit of trimming ! 22 in marketing WTF ?
    What time does this RFC first team cull start at?

  16. #1635
    @hibs.net private member CropleyWasGod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stokesmessiah View Post
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    What time does this RFC first team cull start at?
    Yeah, there has been f all news today. C'moan man, I'm pure rattlin' here.

  17. #1636
    @hibs.net private member cabbageandribs1875's Avatar
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    wont be any news today, administrators dont want to detract from the scotland game tonight, understandable even though only one currant bun in the squad

  18. #1637
    Prediction League Supremo - 05/06 MB62's Avatar
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    I can't get my head around all of this and am probably missing the point, but some questions that seem to simple really.

    Has Ticketus bought the rights for £24m to sell seasons tickets to derhun for the next 4 years, meaning all S.T. sales go to them instead of derhun?

    If so, what would happen if knuckledraggers decided not to buy S.T's for the next 4 years and just paid at the gate? Would that leave Ticketus £24m out of pocket as there was no S.T. money for them?

    That sounds to simple a solution to derhun to get around the £24m so I'm expecting that not to be the case.

  19. #1638
    @hibs.net private member CropleyWasGod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MB62 View Post
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    I can't get my head around all of this and am probably missing the point, but some questions that seem to simple really.

    Has Ticketus bought the rights for £24m to sell seasons tickets to derhun for the next 4 years, meaning all S.T. sales go to them instead of derhun?

    If so, what would happen if knuckledraggers decided not to buy S.T's for the next 4 years and just paid at the gate? Would that leave Ticketus £24m out of pocket as there was no S.T. money for them?

    That sounds to simple a solution to derhun to get around the £24m so I'm expecting that not to be the case.
    They have bought approx 100k ST's, 25k per season, at a reduced rate. When the punters buy them at the face value, the proceeds are sent on to Ticketus.

    So... and I had raised this earlier.... as I understand it, if nobody buys a ST, Ticketus are stiffed. This has two implications:-

    1. the club will get the benefit of those 25k walk-ups every season, ie income more than they would have got from ST's, and a LOT more than they would get from Ticketus.

    2. Ticketus would then go after CW, who has, according to him, underwritten the deal.

    This may help them find a way out, as well as sticking it to CW.....but I don't think they have cottoned on to it yet, so let's just keep it to ourselves, eh?
    Last edited by CropleyWasGod; 29-02-2012 at 12:31 PM.

  20. #1639
    First Team Breakthrough HibbyRod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod View Post
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    They have bought approx 100k ST's, 25k per season, at a reduced rate. When the punters buy them, the proceeds are sent on to Ticketus.

    So... and I had raised this earlier.... as I understand it, if nobody buys a ST, Ticketus are stiffed. This has two implications:-

    1. the club will get the benefit of those 25k walk-ups every season, ie income more than they would have got from ST's, and a LOT more than they would get from Ticketus.

    2. Ticketus would then go after CW, who has, according to him, underwritten the deal.

    This may help them find a way out, as well as sticking it to CW.....but I don't think they have cottoned on to it yet, so let's just keep it to ourselves, eh?


    Does it not just mean that "Ticketus" spread the sales across the term of the contract? That is, not specifically/necessarily "Season Tickets" but also walk-up tickets that are bought "at the gate" to to get in to Ibrox to sit in an allocated seat?

    So, if Rangers sold only 20,000 season tickets in their next season then Ticketus would still get the money for c. 5,000 walk-ups per match and buying a ticket to make up the difference?

  21. #1640
    @hibs.net private member CropleyWasGod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HibbyRod View Post
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    Does it not just mean that "Ticketus" spread the sales across the term of the contract? That is, not specifically/necessarily "Season Tickets" but also walk-up tickets that are bought "at the gate" to to get in to Ibrox to sit in an allocated seat?

    So, if Rangers sold only 20,000 season tickets in their next season then Ticketus would still get the money for c. 5,000 walk-ups per match and buying a ticket to make up the difference?
    Pretty sure it's Season Tickets only. The number 100,333 is in my mind.

    Not sure, though, if that figure is spread evenly, or whether it's a TOTAL for the four years. ie if only 10,000 are sold in year 1, there are still 90,000 carried forward to years 2-4.

  22. #1641
    @hibs.net private member WeAreHibs's Avatar
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    Rumours are that Durrant has been binned

  23. #1642
    @hibs.net private member blackpoolhibs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sodje's Tongue View Post
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    Rumours are that Durrant has been binned
    Heard he's signing for Aberdeen.

  24. #1643
    @hibs.net private member CallumLaidlaw's Avatar
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    So the administrators have found £6m in an account being held by a London solicitors acting on behalf of Craig whyte. The administrators believe it belongs to RFC. The solicitors say they are not obstructing the administrators in any way.

    Curiosor and Curiosor!

  25. #1644
    @hibs.net private member CropleyWasGod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CallumLaidlaw View Post
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    So the administrators have found £6m in an account being held by a London solicitors acting on behalf of Craig whyte. The administrators believe it belongs to RFC. The solicitors say they are not obstructing the administrators in any way.

    Curiosor and Curiosor!
    Not a surprise really.

    The Ticketus £24m, less the £18m paid to Lloyds.

  26. #1645
    Yep. Except their being drip fed all this ticket revenue will **** up their player buying kitty unless they want to pay by installment .. with their current issues they couldnae even raise a provy cheque.

    They would normally buy on strength of season tickets...which, they wont have. So hopefully itll mean they can buy less, win nitto nd go kabooooom!

    Ohyadancerye.....ohhhh as ah wis walking doon the copeland road.....

    MON THE HMRC
    Last edited by Bad Martini; 01-03-2012 at 01:20 PM.

  27. #1646
    @hibs.net private member Golden Bear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sodje's Tongue View Post
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    Rumours are that Durrant has been binned
    Wise move. They'll make a huge saving in the associated costs of the Club chewing gum.

  28. #1647
    Quote Originally Posted by Sodje's Tongue View Post
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    Rumours are that Durrant has been binned
    He could still make a living renting a certain part of his anatomy.











    Maybe not.

  29. #1648
    @hibs.net private member CropleyWasGod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by H18SVG View Post
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    Goodness, an exodus
    Ex-o-dus..... movement o' ra peepul....

  30. #1649
    @hibs.net private member greenginger's Avatar
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    Thinking back about a year, there was a group of Gers supporters formed an action movement whose slogan was

    " We Deserve Better "

    I remember them getting interviewed outside Ibrox, incandescent with rage because their Bank was not allowing a huge transfer budget.

    I wonder what their slogan is today ? We deserve -------? any suggestions

  31. #1650
    @hibs.net private member CropleyWasGod's Avatar
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    ..rogering by a bishop.
    Last edited by CropleyWasGod; 29-02-2012 at 03:59 PM.

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