Generic Sevco / Rangers meltdown thread

[Caversham Green]

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All fair assumptions .. But they are still assumptions.

You are assuming that supporters back Green with season tickets and attending games, nobody knows how many so how can you forecast expected income.

They could sign players but as yet they haven't, so how much will this business plan have set out for player wages?

The debts are with oldco but FIFA intervention on footballing debts might still be possible with NewCo, especially given that they are intending to take footballing credits from Everton.

As I say, any business plan is based on a lot of assumptions rather than actual figures.

And for that reason .. I'm out!

Hang on, we're getting way beyond the point of my original comment here. All I was saying is Rangers will almost certainly be able to produce a business plan that shows them to be far better candidates for admission to the SFL than any other club that's likely to apply. Like it or not, they will bring more fans, attract more media interest and sponsorship and be able to sign a higher standard of player. That doesn't mean they should be allowed to bypass the correct process by entering at a higher level than Div 3 though.

[lapsedhibee]

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Exactly, how have they managed to stay afloat without Rangers all this time?

Up until now, their stands have been filled to bursting with locals who've been seduced by the glamour which has attached to the whole of Scottish fitba as a result of the hugely successful spearheading of our game in Europe year in year out by the OF.

[grunt]

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good attempt at scare mongering in the daily ****** today...

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...unless one of the three divisions gives them a home in time for the start of next season the SFL itself faces the prospect of going bust.

The sky is falling.

[Andy74]

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Hang on, we're getting way beyond the point of my original comment here. All I was saying is Rangers will almost certainly be able to produce a business plan that shows them to be far better candidates for admission to the SFL than any other club that's likely to apply. Like it or not, they will bring more fans, attract more media interest and sponsorship and be able to sign a higher standard of player. That doesn't mean they should be allowed to bypass the correct process by entering at a higher level than Div 3 though.

Is the crux of the whole thing though that no-one is looking for current rules to be bypassed?

What is being suggested is a complete re-write of the football structure that would bring with it a totally new set up with new rules.

Much like the SPL being membership based this new league could take the opportunity to invite whoever they want to start in a particular new structure so long as everyone signing up to set this up agree.

You can argue that this shouldn't just have been done now and it looks like it is just to accomodate Rangers but that's for the members to decide if they want to or not.

[Bishop Hibee]

Paul McConville writes an excellent article on the current state of play:

http://scotslawthoughts.wordpress.co...-start-season/

There is no leadership at the moment and the SFA et al need to get a grip and force the issue with sevco Rangers not wait to see what Green and co do.

Also the silence from Celtc is deafening and it is about time Lowell played his cards.

[JeMeSouviens]

Just read the Traynor article. **** me, it's the written equivalent of a Bomber Brown rallying cry.

[Paisley Hibby]

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If they get into Division 3 that is not a punishment. it is a consequence of the club being liquidated and them having to start a new one.

Don't want to be pedantic but it's important we don't start using the hunspeak of the media.

Exactly - and for that reason no other punishments (fines, transfer embargoes etc). Also, no history.

However, the investigations about what the Oldco did should continue. If, as seems likely, these disclose years of cheating, then Scottish football records for the relevant period should be changed. Every championship and cup win by Rangers should be amended to say something like "award withdrawn".

[jgl07]

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Hang on, we're getting way beyond the point of my original comment here. All I was saying is Rangers will almost certainly be able to produce a business plan that shows them to be far better candidates for admission to the SFL than any other club that's likely to apply. Like it or not, they will bring more fans, attract more media interest and sponsorship and be able to sign a higher standard of player. That doesn't mean they should be allowed to bypass the correct process by entering at a higher level than Div 3 though.

Would the overheads involved with running at Ibrox be covered by the support likely to be generated in Division Three?

If things are as hands to mouth with Sevco as has been suggested by press reports, there may be doubts.

I assume that the player who have transferred over have done so because their contracts with Rangers are worth far more than they are likely to attract elsewhere even as free agents. Thus Rangers could be left with the deadwood as the salable assets have walked.

If the supporters groups and sponsors continue to play chicken with Green in the hope of forcing him to sell out, there could be problems.

The fact that none of the mainstram bankers would touch Green with a bargepole is indicative of problems.

[adhibs]

is it true what was in the scotsman article a few pages back that they only need 16 votes instead of 22 from sfl clubs tpo gain entry? havent seen that mentiond anywhere else

not that there certain to get 16 anyway but if it was still 22 id be sleeping a lot easier

[jgl07]

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is it true what was in the scotsman article a few pages back that they only need 16 votes instead of 22 from sfl clubs tpo gain entry? havent seen that mentiond anywhere else

not that there certain to get 16 anyway but if it was still 22 id be sleeping a lot easier

I don't think it will make any difference whatsoever.

[Caversham Green]

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Is the crux of the whole thing though that no-one is looking for current rules to be bypassed?

What is being suggested is a complete re-write of the football structure that would bring with it a totally new set up with new rules.

Much like the SPL being membership based this new league could take the opportunity to invite whoever they want to start in a particular new structure so long as everyone signing up to set this up agree.

You can argue that this shouldn't just have been done now and it looks like it is just to accomodate Rangers but that's for the members to decide if they want to or not.

Yes, my original point was that Sevco could legitimately leapfrog the likes of Cove and Gala into SFL 3 because their business plan would show them to be a more attractive candidate both from a financial and football point of view. My debate with StevieC was a side-issue from that. The problem we're seeing now is that certain people want Sevco in SFL1 and are prepare to restructure the whole game purely to satisfy their greed. The game undoubtedly needs to be restructured but to attempt that for a season that starts in less than five weeks is absolute lunacy IMO.

[Kaiser1962]

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good attempt at scare mongering in the daily ****** today, this will be getting cranked up a notch or two on a daily basis i would imagine.

Hold on guys the Record article certainly has a point when it says 20 clubs could go bust.


One already has and that was with Rangers in the league

[cabbageandribs1875]

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is it true what was in the scotsman article a few pages back that they only need 16 votes instead of 22 from sfl clubs tpo gain entry? havent seen that mentiond anywhere else

not that there certain to get 16 anyway but if it was still 22 id be sleeping a lot easier

they moved the goalposts, if it then looks like they wont reach the 16 it will then become 14 etc etc

[Caversham Green]

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Would the overheads involved with running at Ibrox be covered by the support likely to be generated in Division Three?

If things are as hands to mouth with Sevco as has been suggested by press reports, there may be doubts.

I assume that the player who have transferred over have done so because their contracts with Rangers are worth far more than they are likely to attract elsewhere even as free agents. Thus Rangers could be left with the deadwood as the salable assets have walked.

If the supporters groups and sponsors continue to play chicken with Green in the hope of forcing him to sell out, there could be problems.

The fact that none of the mainstram bankers would touch Green with a bargepole is indicative of problems.

If Green and his investors didn't think there was money to be made they would pull the plug - they may do so in the next few days, but for the moment they seem to be pushing ahead with their project. Whether it works or not remains to be seen, but we can probably assume they have a business plan that produces a positive end result for them.

My own opinion FWIW is that Sevco will be very lucky to be playing football at the end of the forthcoming season and there's a strong possibility that they might not see the start of it.

[adhibs]

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they moved the goalposts, if it then looks like they wont reach the 16 it will then become 14 etc etc

wouldnt realy expect anything else from those that run scottish football. after the mess with rangers is finished i hope the same fan power continues to force changes in the sfa

[Jim44]

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Just read the Traynor article. **** me, it's the written equivalent of a Bomber Brown rallying cry.

Traynor bends with the wind. It's not so long since he was having a go at Rangers with Tom English. This week someone has farted in the direction of Ibrox and he's wafting in that direction because he sees the effect a Rangerless league will have on his career. Where is Tom English by the way? Talking of journos, I was pleasently surprised to see Stuart Bathgate say unequivocally that Rangers must be put down to Div.3. He had to spoil it 'tho by giving a negative, as is his wont, spin to Hibs signing McPake. Typical Jambo barsteward.

[lapsedhibee]

alexthomson twittering that SFL President and Airdrie Chairman Jim Ballantyne is saying Airdrie won't vote on any Rangers Newco issue because of conflicts of interest

Wonder what that's all about?

[Part/Time Supporter]

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alexthomson twittering that SFL President and Airdrie Chairman Jim Ballantyne is saying Airdrie won't vote on any Rangers Newco issue because of conflicts of interest

Wonder what that's all about?

Ballantyne is a Rangers fan. He's been photographed on trips to their games.

[alexedwards]

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is it true what was in the scotsman article a few pages back that they only need 16 votes instead of 22 from sfl clubs tpo gain entry? havent seen that mentiond anywhere else

not that there certain to get 16 anyway but if it was still 22 id be sleeping a lot easier

Link below indicates they have voted on restructure before and rejected it in 2007 - can't believe they conveniently forgot what the voting structure was on this occasion.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/foot..._1/6573379.stm

You would have to assume someone, somewhere was trying to set up a smokescreen.

[lapsedhibee]

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Ballantyne is a Rangers fan. He's been photographed on trips to their games.

So Cowdenbeath should do same. Wonder where DodoFC are going to get the votes now for admission to div 3?

[ballengeich]

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alexthomson twittering that SFL President and Airdrie Chairman Jim Ballantyne is saying Airdrie won't vote on any Rangers Newco issue because of conflicts of interest

Wonder what that's all about?

The innocent explanation is that Airdrie, having lost the playoff final, would be likely to move up to division 1 if Sevco are voted into division 3. Other explanations are possible.

[--------]

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Traynor bends with the wind. It's not so long since he was having a go at Rangers with Tom English. This week someone has farted in the direction of Ibrox and he's wafting in that direction because he sees the effect a Rangerless league will have on his career. Where is Tom English by the way? Talking of journos, I was pleasently surprised to see Stuart Bathgate say unequivocally that Rangers must be put down to Div.3. He had to spoil it 'tho by giving a negative, as is his wont, spin to Hibs signing McPake. Typical Jambo barsteward.

This one, Jim?

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/footba...hibs-1-2387336

Just telling it as it is, IMO. We need at least another 4 or 5 players (I'd say 6), and we won't know what we have until the team starts playing at the beginning of the season.

Jury's still out as far as I'm concerned.

[cabbageandribs1875]

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Ballantyne is a Rangers fan. He's been photographed on trips to their games.

he was also at the friendly with Linfield


Tue, May 1, 2012

TICKETS for the Linfield v Rangers game at Windsor Park, Belfast on Monday May 7 remain on sale at Ibrox and at various outlets across Northern Ireland.

The game is organised as a gesture by Linfield to financially help Rangers and is expected to attract a near capacity crowd to the Northern Ireland international stadium

[lapsedhibee]

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The innocent explanation is that Airdrie, having lost the playoff final, would be likely to move up to division 1 if Sevco are voted into division 3. Other explanations are possible.

So play-off losers in div 3 should do same and abstain. Wonder where DodoFC are going to get the votes now for admission to the SFL?

[cabbageandribs1875]

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wouldnt realy expect anything else from those that run scottish football. after the mess with rangers is finished i hope the same fan power continues to force changes in the sfa

the SFA still have to answer why craig whyte managed to pass the 'fit and proper person' p@sh when he first took over, or is it the spl that do that cannae mind

[Jim44]

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This one, Jim?

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/footba...hibs-1-2387336

Just telling it as it is, IMO. We need at least another 4 or 5 players (I'd say 6), and we won't know what we have until the team starts playing at the beginning of the season.

Jury's still out as far as I'm concerned.

I agree, Doddie, but he always takes the opportunity to have a wee dig at us. Why not approach the article from the point of view that he is great signing and we could be going in the right direction? Why also push the 'humiliation' of the CF down our throats at the same time. Nah, not my idea of balanced reporting.

[degenerated]

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Just read the Traynor article. **** me, it's the written equivalent of a Bomber Brown rallying cry.

Just read it myself, Jesus wept. All that was missing was the last sentence stating "this was a party political broadcast for the SEVCO party"
I wonder how many pieces of silver his fat sweaty palms were crossed with by green to get the fat tit to write that

[ScottB]

Loving this nonsense now, so the SFL, 3 leagues that have survived quite happily without any Rangers money, face going bust, all 30 clubs, without them, even though they've never had them...

Jesus wept as others have said haha

[Brando7]

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alexthomson twittering that SFL President and Airdrie Chairman Jim Ballantyne is saying Airdrie won't vote on any Rangers Newco issue because of conflicts of interest

Wonder what that's all about?

A no vote is as good as a yes vote I bet

[StevieC]

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Hang on, we're getting way beyond the point of my original comment here. All I was saying is Rangers will almost certainly be able to produce a business plan that shows them to be far better candidates for admission to the SFL than any other club that's likely to apply.

That's the point I'm making though, would it?

I suspect the running costs of Rangers are quite substantial. Without knowing how much they will be paying in wages, and how many supporters are going to turn up, any business plan is pure guess-work.
They may be able to produce a business plan on projected figures that gives a £5m profit, in reality it might end up a £5m loss.

At the moment ex-players and ex-managers are whipping the support into a frenzy and telling them not to buy season tickets and to oust Green. If, for example, Brown and Smith start up a new company and ask the fans to back them instead of Green there is every chance that Green goes bust and Sevco are unable to complete their fixtures. There is also the July 31st date that was banded about that Green could pull out of the proposed deal. This date may well have been based on the CVA but if there are any faults in the agreement that a lawyer could pick up on then it may still be a get-out date that Green could utilise.

This is purely conjecture of course, and may not happen, but the total uncertaintity of the Rangers situation I think needs to be taken into account, and on that basis I cant see how a business plan from Sevco could be viewed any better than a business plan from a well run, well organised, profitable football team.