Generic Sevco / Rangers meltdown thread

[rcarter1]

Having just read "the Document", I am similarly appalled by its contents. Well done to Clyde for its response to it. I am still unclear as to who and with what other authority prepared this document. I also agree that if Rod Petrie was involved in this his position is untenable, and I will never go to Easter Road again until he leaves. However, I generally support RP in many things and am therefore anxious to give him the benefit of the doubt until the facts are known. Those who prepared this document, I hope are expelled from the Scottish game.

[blackpoolhibs]

http://t.co/3Mcexhjz

[jgl07]

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http://t.co/3Mcexhjz

Another fine mess!

[NAE NOOKIE]

Well done Clyde .... a well thought out and excellent statement.

Its no secret that I would have been prepared to tolerate the newco in Div1 ... but I would much rather they started at the very bottom, for everybodys sake. I am well aware that most Scottish fans are against Div1 entry and I cant say I'm sorry that its beginning to look like the SFL clubs are too.

Get them into Div3 and lets get on with sorting out the game in this country properly. We could start by getting rid of anybody in the SPL or SFA who have had anything to do with the fact that this bloody farce has dragged on for so long.

Its been tragic that it has taken fan power to force them to face up to the decisions they should have been making all along.

[steakbake]

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Well done Clyde .... a well thought out and excellent statement.

Its no secret that I would have been prepared to tolerate the newco in Div1 ... but I would much rather they started at the very bottom, for everybodys sake. I am well aware that most Scottish fans are against Div1 entry and I cant say I'm sorry that its beginning to look like the SFL clubs are too.

Get them into Div3 and lets get on with sorting out the game in this country properly. We could start by getting rid of anybody in the SPL or SFA who have had anything to do with the fact that this bloody farce has dragged on for so long.

Its been tragic that it has taken fan power to force them to face up to the decisions they should have been making all along.

Amen to that. Once/if this all gets sorted out, Ogilvie, Doncaster and Regan should consider their positions. As administrators, they've proved themselves inept.

[Onion]

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Having just read "the Document", I am similarly appalled by its contents. Well done to Clyde for its response to it. I am still unclear as to who and with what other authority prepared this document. I also agree that if Rod Petrie was involved in this his position is untenable, and I will never go to Easter Road again until he leaves. However, I generally support RP in many things and am therefore anxious to give him the benefit of the doubt until the facts are known. Those who prepared this document, I hope are expelled from the Scottish game.

IMHO once Newco find their right level (in the 3rd or lower) you will see every chairman in the SPL distance themselves from this whole sorry affair - and esp that document. Survival mode will kick in It is truly a shocker that smacks of desperation/panic with no care for the consequences or the thrashings of a dying man ?

[weecounty hibby]

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Amen to that. Once/if this all gets sorted out, Ogilvie, Doncaster and Regan should consider their positions. As administrators, they've proved themselves inept.

It shouldn't be up to them they should be fired from their positions. They have failed miserably to improve the SPL, SFA, SFL and their latest efforts at manufacturing a position for the Huns is nothing short of corruption.

[Caversham Green]

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Having just read "the Document", I am similarly appalled by its contents. Well done to Clyde for its response to it. I am still unclear as to who and with what other authority prepared this document. I also agree that if Rod Petrie was involved in this his position is untenable, and I will never go to Easter Road again until he leaves. However, I generally support RP in many things and am therefore anxious to give him the benefit of the doubt until the facts are known. Those who prepared this document, I hope are expelled from the Scottish game.

Having given this some thought, it wouldn't surprise me if it emerged that the author of the document was Mr Charles Green.

I got the impression from the news reports that it was circulated by the SFL, but no-one seems to have actually put their name to it and that is very unusual - normally there would be a covering letter or foreword signed by the president/CEO/secretary or someone. It also doesn't read like a document produced by a committee like the SFL or other boards, nor does it look like it was produced by a solicitor like Doncaster or an accountant like Petrie.

What it reads like is a prospectus for a dodgy invesment 'opportunity' and I believe that is Green's stock in trade. He has also shown complete contempt towards the intelligence of anyone that isn't wearing his socks and this document is basically an insult to the reader's intelligence. Green also appears to be very, very stupid and appears to think he can gat away with blatant lies.

If it wasn't actually sent out by Charley, I'm becoming convinced that he was the author.

[WindyMiller]

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I think this is critical, and I think you're right.

The "Document" was so appalling I find it very difficult to believe it was sanctioned by the collective SPL Chairmen. If you look a the statements put out by the majority of clubs, it is completely at odds with the tone and the content, which has generally been one of considered realism. The one issused last week was the diametric opposite. Can you really believe the 'tache would put his name to that? Have we ever seen anything even faintly similar in the years he's been at ER? I also think Regan is away at the moment. (Having seen the other stuff Regan has been invoved in within the SFA which I think is very good - the "Scotland United" plan is good, if not somewhat ironic given the current circumstances - it is also completely at odds with the considered and, for the most part, sensible stuff he has issued).

I think Doncaster is the man to blame here, fairly and squarely. It is primarily an SPL document, and I think it does bear his hallmarks of panic and tunnel vision when it comes to the Hun.

Calls for peoples heads is, as this stage premature. The only source I've seen about Petrie/Green was a report on STV without any substance as to the content of the meeting. We dont know if he was wearing a Hibs, SFA or SPL hat. We dont know what th emeeting was about, but we have rushed to 2+2 equalling 4, and condemning without sufficient evidence. I hasten to add, that if the document does turn out to have been an SFA/SPL official thing and Petrie and Regan were either driving forces behind it then their position is clearly untenable.

Despite the easy "they're all corrupt" approach, there are lots of very good people employed by the SFA at all levels, and the change has been visible in the last couple of years below the level of the Professional game, and even there the introduction of the Professional Game Board has wiped away the old committee system in a bonfire of the blazers.

If there are capable people in place, then the turmoil that will follow whatever happens to the Huns is going to need them to manage the game through.

Knee jerk reactions - even if they turn out ultimately to be right, are generally not the best for long term success in any field.

I've highlighted what I think are the important parts of your post.

Doncaster is apparently going to speak at the SFL meeting next week and is obviously continuing his desperate attempt to get the Huns back in the SPL asap.

As for RP's meeting with Green; the St Mirren chairman also met with Green last week ,and told him he'd be voting no to Newco in the SPL.

Of course RP was probably concocting some devious scheme that's totally the opposite of his statements so far.

[GreenCastle]

Well done Clyde - good statement

Regarding Regan - I think he's actually a good guy from what I've heard from him and what he is trying to do.

The other ones like Doncaster - not too sure about him

[CropleyWasGod]

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Having given this some thought, it wouldn't surprise me if it emerged that the author of the document was Mr Charles Green.

I got the impression from the news reports that it was circulated by the SFL, but no-one seems to have actually put their name to it and that is very unusual - normally there would be a covering letter or foreword signed by the president/CEO/secretary or someone. It also doesn't read like a document produced by a committee like the SFL or other boards, nor does it look like it was produced by a solicitor like Doncaster or an accountant like Petrie.

What it reads like is a prospectus for a dodgy invesment 'opportunity' and I believe that is Green's stock in trade. He has also shown complete contempt towards the intelligence of anyone that isn't wearing his socks and this document is basically an insult to the reader's intelligence. Green also appears to be very, very stupid and appears to think he can gat away with blatant lies.

If it wasn't actually sent out by Charley, I'm becoming convinced that he was the author.

I share your scepticism about the appalling quality of the document. However, given that it has been in the public domain for long enough now, wouldn't you think that someone from the SFL (Longmuir etc.) would have denied that it came from them?

It has also crossed my mind that RP's name has been dropped in, to try and cause some split amongst the non-OF support. That part has certainly worked.... on here at least.

[joe breezy]

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I see that Newco have issued a statement saying that they have cancelled all Direct Debits for STs due to the confusion about where the money was going. It seems that they are banking with the Metro Bank. No, I've never heard of it either.

Supposed to be an alright bank, mostly branches in London.

Not sure about their business banking. I imagine they take people with bad credit ratings!

[Caversham Green]

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I share your scepticism about the appalling quality of the document. However, given that it has been in the public domain for long enough now, wouldn't you think that someone from the SFL (Longmuir etc.) would have denied that it came from them?

It has also crossed my mind that RP's name has been dropped in, to try and cause some split amongst the non-OF support. That part has certainly worked.... on here at least.

Yes, I would but I would also have expected some sort of comment from whoever issued it anyway and there has been a deafening silence from the authorities. To be honest I'm just gobsmacked about the whole thing and my Green theory is the only one that really makes any modicum of sense to me. Whoever produced it and authorised its distribution is not fit to be in a position of authority IMHO.

One point, if it was produced by the SFL then neither Petrie nor Doncaster is directly implicated and Regan seems to be on holiday but they seem to be getting all the flak. Shirley there's more to come on this.

[CropleyWasGod]

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Yes, I would but I would also have expected some sort of comment from whoever issued it anyway and there has been a deafening silence from the authorities. To be honest I'm just gobsmacked about the whole thing and my Green theory is the only one that really makes any modicum of sense to me. Whoever produced it and authorised its distribution is not fit to be in a position of authority IMHO.

One point, if it was produced by the SFL then neither Petrie nor Doncaster is directly implicated and Regan seems to be on holiday but they seem to be getting all the flak. Shirley there's more to come on this.

According to the SFL website, they HAVE issued a briefing document. http://www.scottishfootballleague.co...-statement-52/

Whether that is the one in the media, though.....

[Jim44]

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Having given this some thought, it wouldn't surprise me if it emerged that the author of the document was Mr Charles Green.

I got the impression from the news reports that it was circulated by the SFL, but no-one seems to have actually put their name to it and that is very unusual - normally there would be a covering letter or foreword signed by the president/CEO/secretary or someone. It also doesn't read like a document produced by a committee like the SFL or other boards, nor does it look like it was produced by a solicitor like Doncaster or an accountant like Petrie.

What it reads like is a prospectus for a dodgy invesment 'opportunity' and I believe that is Green's stock in trade. He has also shown complete contempt towards the intelligence of anyone that isn't wearing his socks and this document is basically an insult to the reader's intelligence. Green also appears to be very, very stupid and appears to think he can gat away with blatant lies.

If it wasn't actually sent out by Charley, I'm becoming convinced that he was the author.

Much as I'd love your intuition to be correct, I can't believe for a second that Green had anything to do with it. He would be well and truly out of the game if his involvement came to light.

[s.a.m]

I've kind of assumed it was from Longmuir, following discussions with SPL. I'm not sure if I came to that conclusion as a result of something I read, or if I'm just making assumptions.

[Caversham Green]

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According to the SFL website, they HAVE issued a briefing document. http://www.scottishfootballleague.co...-statement-52/

Whether that is the one in the media, though.....

It's the right date so it probably is the one we've seen. I note the Clyde statement refers to a set of papers though, that would suggest there's rather more to it than has appeared in the press. Still an astonishingly bad document though.

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Much as I'd love your intuition to be correct, I can't believe for a second that Green had anything to do with it. He would be well and truly out of the game if his involvement came to light.

There's nothing to prevent Green lobbying the SFL clubs, and that's really what the document we've seen does. In any case, i suspect he will be out of the game anyway if his tawdry little company has to start in SFL3.

[CropleyWasGod]

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It's the right date so it probably is the one we've seen. I note the Clyde statement refers to a set of papers though, that would suggest there's rather more to it than has appeared in the press. Still an astonishingly bad document though.



There's nothing to prevent Green lobbying the SFL clubs, and that's really what the document we've seen does. In any case, i suspect he will be out of the game anyway if his tawdry little company has to start in SFL3.

Soooooo.... perhaps the one we've seen is his attempt at lobbying?

[Caversham Green]

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Soooooo.... perhaps the one we've seen is his attempt at lobbying?

Could he have requested that his representations were included in the agenda that was sent out ahead of the meeting?

It just looks so much like the sort of rubbish people like him produce and so little like something that would come from a football governing body.

[vuefrom1875]

re that many spl clubs have vetoed the newco with open arms...how strange the lesser greens are siting on the fence.Methinks, let the other members do the stuff and we'll stay neutral....bunch of phoneys...views please!

[s.a.m]

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It's the right date so it probably is the one we've seen. I note the Clyde statement refers to a set of papers though, that would suggest there's rather more to it than has appeared in the press. Still an astonishingly bad document though..

Maybe it was written in crayon

[CropleyWasGod]

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Could he have requested that his representations were included in the agenda that was sent out ahead of the meeting?

It just looks so much like the sort of rubbish people like him produce and so little like something that would come from a football governing body.

Hmmm.. perhaps.

Longmuir has always struck me as a competent, honourable guy. Maybe his silence thus far is along the lines of the Hibs' usual model.... let the facts speak for themselves, let events play out and then comment.

Then again, if he is the author of the document, I am sure there are enough decent people in the SFL that will ask for his head.

[Caversham Green]

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Come on CG, Much as I'd love it to be true, surely what you're suggestion is a bit far-fetched. If it was anything along the lines you're suggesting, there would have been an immediate rebuttal from the SPL,SFA and SFL. Am I suffering from some sort of irony or humour by-pass here.

Not at all - I'm saying if it came from the SFL then Charles Green has advised them about what they should write. The document doesn't even attempt to be impartial or balanced, and that coming from a sports regulatory body is just plain wrong.

[BEEJ]

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Yes, I would but I would also have expected some sort of comment from whoever issued it anyway and there has been a deafening silence from the authorities. To be honest I'm just gobsmacked about the whole thing and my Green theory is the only one that really makes any modicum of sense to me. Whoever produced it and authorised its distribution is not fit to be in a position of authority IMHO.

One point, if it was produced by the SFL then neither Petrie nor Doncaster is directly implicated and Regan seems to be on holiday but they seem to be getting all the flak. Shirley there's more to come on this.

CG, you may be correct but in the end it matters little who actually wrote the document. They just become another guilty party.

Those that agreed to it being distributed to the SFL clubs, in doing so essentially put their names to it and sanctioned its contents. Longmuir (SFL) is certainly on that list.

And given that the issue of the document followed a high-level meeting between the SPL, SFA and SFL on matters such as reconstruction, then we can surmise that it had their unanimous approval. The SPL might argue that actually this part of the decision-making has nothing to do with them; but in fact they will consider that they have a vested interest in RFC's destiny and will have lobbied accordingly.

So Doncaster, Longmuir, Regan and now probably Green are all guilty by association with this document.

[JohnStephens91]

The Old Firm essentially come as a product and together they have bullied the rest of the clubs out of money and wealth. Now that their business partners have disappeared Celtic will be scared stiff of the changes that are about to happen in the Scottish game and most notably in the SPL. They would never vote against a Newco coming in, especially one which is a zombie Rangers, because they know it would effectively signal the reversal in their fortunes. It won't happen overnight, but it will definitely happen. Lawwell is cacking his pants.

[GreenCastle]

I brought this up the other day - they have been a disgrace but not making a statement.

A while back they came out and said they don't need them to survive but they have never actually come out and said them being in the SPL is a bad thing.

I think they have got off far too lightly - considering many of their fans have such strong views about it - surely they should demand a statement from their board.

[BEEJ]

It was suggested on BBC Sportsound this afternoon that Lawell must have been hoping that all the other SPL clubs would buckle and allow RFC back into the SPL while Celtic meantime could appease their own fans by voting 'No'.

That scenario has been well and truly blown out of the water by the intervention of non-OF supporters and their clubs responding accordingly.

Moreover change in the SPL voting system and income distribution now looks odds on as Club 12 will be likely to vote with the non-OF 10 to give an 11-1 majority on any new proposals to that end.

Celtic FC are now therefore in a bit of a quandary.

[weecounty hibby]

They are both subsidiaries of the parent company Bigots Inc. They have the same identity (The Old Firm) the same sponsor (Tennants) and have done for years, same business strategy (leave Scotland) and the same vile type of cretins who inhabit their stadiums. Why would Celtic want to see Rangers fold as their future financial stability relies on them even more so than most other Scottish clubs.

[The_Exile]

Remember Celtic have got shareholders to appease. They'll vote for whatever provides them with a better return. Or they could prove they are spineless by abstaining.

[Caversham Green]

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CG, you may be correct but in the end it matters little who actually wrote the document. They just become another guilty party.

Those that agreed to it being distributed to the SFL clubs, in doing so essentially put their names to it and sanctioned its contents. Longmuir (SFL) is certainly on that list.

And given that the issue of the document followed a high-level meeting between the SPL, SFA and SFL on matters such as reconstruction, then we can surmise that it had their unanimous approval. The SPL might argue that actually this part of the decision-making has nothing to do with them; but in fact they will consider that they have a vested interest in RFC's destiny and will have lobbied accordingly.

So Doncaster, Longmuir, Regan and now probably Green are all guilty by association with this document.

I quite agree - I started out thinking that the document might not have come from the SFL at all, but the statement on their website linked by CWG suggests that it did. I still find it very odd that there doesn't appear to be a name on it though. As I say, it's just the quality and nature of the document that has me puzzled. If the author is someone from the SFA/SFL/SPL they have fatally compromised their own position IMO.