Generic Sevco / Rangers meltdown thread

[JimBHibees]

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Jim Traynor really has become Apologist in Chief for the Rangers cause..........

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/footbal...6908-23895126/


“A newco will have to shoulder the responsibility and possibly even the punishments of the old company if they want the licences to play.”
Yet outside, in the real world, a newco would have a clean slate but in Scottish football’s parallel universe corporate and civil laws don’t always apply.
And when they do it’s only to suit the authorities’ agendas."

No outrage at the tax avoidance, no outrage the sporting advantage gained and no outrage at the sheer enormity of this clubs scandal and lack of acceptance of guilt.Certainly no case put for simplythe fact that the right thing has to be seen to be done.

Outrage though at Rangers not getting a free ride and a sly dig at the authoities 'agenda' and a clear ignoring of the asset stripping agenda of Charles Green.

The campaign is on full throttle now to get Rangers an easy route back in. Sickening

Why isnt he and his paper more critical or critical in any way of SDM's role in all of this? I think I have an idea. How is Jackson's legal case against John Collins getting on?

[Andy74]

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From the DR website,

Forget about playing in Europe, we might not even be playing in Glasgow.” But he then added: “The solemn promise I can make to Rangers fans today is that this club will continue as Rangers Football Club and will continue to play at Ibrox Stadium.


So how is able to move Ibrox and Where would he move it to?

An empty promise as he may not be the eventual owner if BDO find a more attractive offer.

Although it lloks like the sale of assets is going to take place before liquidation.

I really don't get how it can be done when creditors should fully expect some sort of market value.

What exactly will there be left to liquidate? Looks to me like the only thin they will be doing is investigations into the past.

[JimBHibees]

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Patience, Kato, patience - it's all going to come out in the wash thanks to Hector!

And this thread will double in size as the new soap storyline unfolds week after week.

By opting for liquidation, Hector has opened the door for the liquidators (BDO) to pursue all Hunco directors over the past three years and I suspect that is something that BDO will already have been instructed about.

Can't wait for the result to be published tomorrow and watch a Securicor van pull out of the back entrance to Ipox with Duff and Duffer hiding inside while the BDO boys walk through the front door armed to the teeth with robust mandates.

There will be no easy sleeps for all the ex-Hunco directors and no hiding places either.

Bet you the shredder will be working overtime at the moment.

[JimBHibees]

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A real journalist speaks....(in 1976) Ian Archer - a true Jag

30 years on and what really has changed.

[jgl07]

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Jim Traynor really has become Apologist in Chief for the Rangers cause..........

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/footbal...6908-23895126/


“A newco will have to shoulder the responsibility and possibly even the punishments of the old company if they want the licences to play.”
Yet outside, in the real world, a newco would have a clean slate but in Scottish football’s parallel universe corporate and civil laws don’t always apply.
And when they do it’s only to suit the authorities’ agendas."

No outrage at the tax avoidance, no outrage the sporting advantage gained and no outrage at the sheer enormity of this clubs scandal and lack of acceptance of guilt.Certainly no case put for simplythe fact that the right thing has to be seen to be done.

Outrage though at Rangers not getting a free ride and a sly dig at the authoities 'agenda' and a clear ignoring of the asset stripping agenda of Charles Green.

The campaign is on full throttle now to get Rangers an easy route back in. Sickening

That't funny. He was on the radio last night arguing for Rangers to be demoted top SFL3.

[Kato]

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30 years on and what really has changed.

They used to have to hand make their own sectarian banners and scarfs.

Now there are companies and printers who cash in and make sectarian products for them.

[JimBHibees]

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They used to have to hand make their own sectarian banners and scarfs.

Now there are companies and printers who cash in and make sectarian products for them.

[johnrebus]

If Green pulls off this deal to get hold of all the assets for a paltry £5.5m then it will go down as grand larceny.

Have seen it reported that neither HMRC or Ticketus will object to this. HMRC are more interested in pursuing Murray and Whyte, with Ticketus going after Craigie boy in the courts.

I feel that Duff & Phelps are going to get their erses skelped big time. We have yet to see the result of the Administrators regulatory body's investigation into the conflict of interest allegation on BBC Scotland and surely this, 'binding agreement', with Green has to also come under scrutiny?

We are told by D&P that the Rangers newco will retain the history, trophies etc. etc. when this is blatantly untrue - a new company is just that - new - there is no link to the past. Then we are told that the players contracts will automatically switch to the newco - also untrue, which a quick look at the Employment Act would have told them.

Charlie Green is a wide boy looking to make a fast buck out of the Hun, nothing more, nothing less. He is a smarter, Yorkshire version of Craig Whyte. But it has taken him so long to come up with any cash, from the so called group of twenty, er, sorry six (mystery) investors, that D&P should have booted him out weeks ago.

If I were a Hun - God Forbid - I would be seeing Duff & Phelps in the same light as Murray & Craig.



Incompetent or corrupt?

Or both.

[Spike Mandela]

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That't funny. He was on the radio last night arguing for Rangers to be demoted top SFL3.

Yes I heard that as well but his argument was that it would be easier for Rangers to work their way up from the third than go into the SPL heavily sanctioned. He was also implying that it would be a way to make the other clubs suffer.

I honestly never used to think he Favoured the OF over other clubs but he has shown his true colours spectacularly during this whole saga. Anyone who buys the Daily Record needs their head examined imo.

[Hibbyradge]

For those who think it will be business at usual for Newco Rangers at Ibrox, I have a couple of questions.

How much are Ibrox, Murray Park and the Albion Car Park worth on the open market to property developers etc?

Why would HMRC allow the liquidators to sell them all to Green for only £5.5m when they are owed in excess of £20m...so far?

Why did they reject a CVA worth £8.5m in the knowledge that only £5.5m was waiting?

[cad]

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30 years on and what really has changed.

Generations in the future ,50 ,100, 150 years from now will blame the people who had the chance to change Scottish football and didnt ,
its make your mind up time , keep them in what ever form or do football a big favour and finish them while you have the chance .

[HFC 0-7]

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For those who think it will be business at usual for Newco Rangers at Ibrox, I have a couple of questions.

How much are Ibrox, Murray Park and the Albion Car Park worth on the open market to property developers etc?

Why would HMRC allow the liquidators to sell them all to Green for only £5.5m when they are owed in excess of £20m...so far?

Why did they reject a CVA worth £8.5m in the knowledge that only £5.5m was waiting?

I originally thought that creditora, HMRC in particular, would not allow the sale for 5.5 million, but now I wonder if they rejected the CVA just to be able to investigate further. Perhaps they know they wont get that much extra and are willing to sacrifice a bit of cash if it means they can fully investigate and perhaps prosecute. It would be a strong message to others in the footballing world that HMRC can get you. I hope im wrong though, and after Thursdays meeting HMRC announce they have blocked the sale to greene, bumped D&P out the door and have their own team in putting a price to everything and are willing to sell everything individually to the highest bidder!

[johnrebus]

[QUOTE=Hibbyradge;3261721]For those who think it will be business at usual for Newco Rangers at Ibrox, I have a couple of questions.

How much are Ibrox, Murray Park and the Albion Car Park worth on the open market to property developers etc?

I don't think they own the car park, but remember a figure of £110m being put on the other assets.


Why would HMRC allow the liquidators to sell them all to Green for only £5.5m when they are owed in excess of £20m...so far?

Because a, 'binding agreement' , was done between D&P and Green a number of weeks back if the CVA fell through. Mind you, I still don't see how they can get away with it.

Why did they reject a CVA worth £8.5m in the knowledge that only £5.5m was waiting?

Because they seem to think there will be potentially more for the pot if they go after the former directors of the club, eg Murray & Whyte. Apparently there would have not have been the same scope to do this under a CVA.

[HibeeMG]

A few people are now asking if HMRC will allow the £5.5m purchase of the Rangers assets by Green.

My question to the people in the know is, does a creditor have to object to this sale? Or can BDO, as liquidators, object to it?

[CropleyWasGod]

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For those who think it will be business at usual for Newco Rangers at Ibrox, I have a couple of questions.

How much are Ibrox, Murray Park and the Albion Car Park worth on the open market to property developers etc?

Why would HMRC allow the liquidators to sell them all to Green for only £5.5m when they are owed in excess of £20m...so far?

Why did they reject a CVA worth £8.5m in the knowledge that only £5.5m was waiting?

1. as much as they will pay. Sorry to be so unhelpful, but that's it. There are restrictions on what can be done with Ibrox and Murray Park, which will deflate their potential value.

2. they haven't yet. Any creditor has the right to block, or reverse, a disposal of assets if they feel their interests are being prejudiced. That said, Cav (and I, too, for that matter) has doubts that the properties are part of the £5.5m deal.

3. I am hoping that, as a combination of 1 and 2, they think there is more value in the properties. The alternative, as someone has said, is that they may want the opportunity to dig deeper into the RFC history and extract some value from the former directors.

[MyJo]

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For those who think it will be business at usual for Newco Rangers at Ibrox, I have a couple of questions.

How much are Ibrox, Murray Park and the Albion Car Park worth on the open market to property developers etc?

Why would HMRC allow the liquidators to sell them all to Green for only £5.5m when they are owed in excess of £20m...so far?

Why did they reject a CVA worth £8.5m in the knowledge that only £5.5m was waiting?

The CVA was practically worthless to HMRC in monetery terms and by accepting it they would have set a precedent for future situations involving football clubs living beyond thier means and stiffing the taxman to do it. Accepting the CVA also meant that there was a line drawn under everything including the big tax case and the conduct and actions of RFC directors and owners would be swept under the carpet.

What HMRC are doing is writing of the tuppence they would get from the CVA in the hopes of recovering more money from individuals involved in the systematic defrauding of HMRC over several years at the big hoose and sending a clear message to all of football that if you dont pay your taxes we'll ****** you good and proper.

They wont care what happens to the club and the assets given the route that they are going down but there are many many other creditors including ticketus, rapid vienna, hearts who could object to the selling of the club to Green and challenge that it is not the best deal available to the creditors.

[StevieC]

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Stream of consciousness reporting

http://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/scot...#ixzz1xdIhsp1V

"The whole thing is just so sad. I look back and think about all the medals I won at Ibrox.
Leading Gers to Nine in a Row, the League Cups and Scottish Cups"

These will be the "tainted" medals and cups that you won with the dual-contracts and the cheating then Mr Gough?




"I had Andy Goram on the phone as soon as I woke up and he couldn’t get his head round it. Like me, he wanted answers"

No. Like you, he's just a bit bigoted (as well as being thick as ****) and seem to think that everyone "owes" Rangers something!

[johnrebus]

[QUOTE=MyJo;3261738]The CVA was practically worthless to HMRC in monetery terms and by accepting it they would have set a precedent for future situations involving football clubs living beyond thier means and stiffing the taxman to do it. Accepting the CVA also meant that there was a line drawn under everything including the big tax case and the conduct and actions of RFC directors and owners would be swept under the carpet.

What HMRC are doing is writing of the tuppence they would get from the CVA in the hopes of recovering more money from individuals involved in the systematic defrauding of HMRC over several years at the big hoose and sending a clear message to all of football that if you dont pay your taxes we'll ****** you good and proper.

They wont care what happens to the club and the assets given the route that they are going down but there are many many other creditors including ticketus, rapid vienna, hearts who could object to the selling of the club to Green and challenge that it is not the best deal available to the creditors.[/QUOTE]


Yes, but this 'binding agreement' we keep hearing about is likely to be concluded in the next couple of days.

Someone will have to move fast to prevent it. Surely?

[CropleyWasGod]

[QUOTE=johnrebus;3261745]

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The CVA was practically worthless to HMRC in monetery terms and by accepting it they would have set a precedent for future situations involving football clubs living beyond thier means and stiffing the taxman to do it. Accepting the CVA also meant that there was a line drawn under everything including the big tax case and the conduct and actions of RFC directors and owners would be swept under the carpet.

What HMRC are doing is writing of the tuppence they would get from the CVA in the hopes of recovering more money from individuals involved in the systematic defrauding of HMRC over several years at the big hoose and sending a clear message to all of football that if you dont pay your taxes we'll ****** you good and proper.

They wont care what happens to the club and the assets given the route that they are going down but there are many many other creditors including ticketus, rapid vienna, hearts who could object to the selling of the club to Green and challenge that it is not the best deal available to the creditors.[/QUOTE]


Yes, but this 'binding agreement' we keep hearing about is likely to be concluded in the next couple of days.

Someone will have to move fast to prevent it. Surely?

Deals can be reversed through the Courts.

However, it wouldn't surprise me if HMRC/BDO have a Court action ready, to put a block on the sale of any assets.

[Stevie Reid]

Charles Paterson said on SSN this morning that he understands that the deal that Green has in place to buy the club for £5.5M is not as straightforward as he is making out.

[Just Alf]

[QUOTE=johnrebus;3261745]

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The CVA was practically worthless to HMRC in monetery terms and by accepting it they would have set a precedent for future situations involving football clubs living beyond thier means and stiffing the taxman to do it. Accepting the CVA also meant that there was a line drawn under everything including the big tax case and the conduct and actions of RFC directors and owners would be swept under the carpet.

What HMRC are doing is writing of the tuppence they would get from the CVA in the hopes of recovering more money from individuals involved in the systematic defrauding of HMRC over several years at the big hoose and sending a clear message to all of football that if you dont pay your taxes we'll ****** you good and proper.

They wont care what happens to the club and the assets given the route that they are going down but there are many many other creditors including ticketus, rapid vienna, hearts who could object to the selling of the club to Green and challenge that it is not the best deal available to the creditors.[/QUOTE]


Yes, but this 'binding agreement' we keep hearing about is likely to be concluded in the next couple of days.

Someone will have to move fast to prevent it. Surely?

IIRC, it was binding on Chaz only...... effectively if the CVA failed he was a backstip.... D&P don't have to implement the condition.

And as CWG says.... even if completed and BDO turn up and say "hang on this ain't right", then the transaction can be reversed after the fact.

[blackpoolhibs]

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Charles Paterson said on SSN this morning that he understands that the deal that Green has in place to buy the club for £5.5M is not as straightforward as he is making out.

Thats no surprise is it, he's bull ****ted from the moment he entered the building.

[hibs0666]

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Charles Paterson said on SSN this morning that he understands that the deal that Green has in place to buy the club for £5.5M is not as straightforward as he is making out.

Green can still back out from the deal if the currant buns are banned from any competitions. I'm assuming that the European ban already gives him the necessary wriggle room. However, an additional suspension from the SFA and/or SPL will see him disappear faster than you can say 'quick buck'.

[CropleyWasGod]

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Green can still back out from the deal if the currant buns are banned from any competitions. I'm assuming that the European ban already gives him the necessary wriggle room. However, an additional suspension from the SFA and/or SPL will see him disappear faster than you can say 'quick buck'.

IIRC, it was "only" Scottish competitions that the get-out clause referred to.

[Stevie Reid]

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Thats no surprise is it, he's bull ****ted from the moment he entered the building.

Absolutely not, but it was still nice to hear that it isn't a definite to go ahead.

[Nazz]

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Fixtures are easy to adjust. There are set formula to allow you to prevent home clashes for as many pairs of teams as you want. Dundee Utd could be paired with a team that isn't an issue (eg St Johnstone) and if Dundee are the team that replaces Rangers then St Johnstone take on Rangers fixtures and Dundee take on St Johnstones.

The only issue is how quickly they decide on the final league setup

That would work too.

[johnrebus]

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Thats no surprise is it, he's bull ****ted from the moment he entered the building.

But in a way you have to admire him.

He cares not a jot for the Hun or Scottish Fitba. All he sees is 40,000 gullible would be season ticket holders waiting to part with their readies and he wants some of that.

Balls of steel.

[blackpoolhibs]

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But in a way you have to admire him.

He cares not a jot for the Hun or Scottish Fitba. All he sees is 40,000 gullible would be season ticket holders waiting to part with their readies and he wants some of that.

Balls of steel.

He wants to be in and out in a year, with his pockets bulging with cash. Why else would he be involved?

[Planet Hibs]

Anyone think whining mccoist will be in charge of a newco in div 3? Although cant think who else would want him

[Benny Brazil]

From todays Sun:

CHARLES GREEN last night warned SPL rivals: Boot out Rangers and you will KILL our game.

Read more: http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage...#ixzz1xfPzMxrj

Our game?? This guy has been in the country 2 secs and suddenly he knows all about Scottish Football.

I thought last night I was pleased that HMRC had made their decision - it might mean we can get an end to this farce that has dragged Scottish Football through the gutter for the last 3 months - seems like the real drama is only just about to begin - the SFA/SPL must be quaking in their boots, the SPL chairmen must be panicking - one thing that isnt though is the non Rankgers fans resolve that they must be kicked out of the SPL.

edit: I see our Hibs Fans Chief has changed his mind on this as well