Generic Sevco / Rangers meltdown thread

[matty_f]

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This thing about Green making available a 'pot' of 8.5 million, or whatever, to appease the creditors, then spending millions which you haven't made available to them......is that allowed?
Basically saying: "Aye, I've got money, but you're no gettin it."?

That would be the one thing that if I was a creditor, would make me reject the CVA. Imagine getting a penny in the pound on money that they're owe you, as you watch them chuck millions at a player. Would that not just stick in the craw?

[ancienthibby]

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This thing about Green making available a 'pot' of 8.5 million, or whatever, to appease the creditors, then spending millions which you haven't made available to them......is that allowed?
Basically saying: "Aye, I've got money, but you're no gettin it."?

One of the Duffers on Beeb radio a few minutes ago would not confirm the question that the dividend had been set at 20p in the £.

Spilt the breakfast on hearing that.

Then went on to say that the divi was based on a number of forecasted revenues which were yet to be crystallised. One of these being transfer receipts from the sale of players!!

Second accident at this point.

How can the divi be based on external factors which Duff and Duffer do not control??

Is this another Big Hoose o' cards??

[Caversham Green]

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can anyone tell me why and who decided this???? seems to me it could have already been dealt with?

" the SPL has granted Rangers "a period of grace" after the club missed the deadline for filing financial documents.

The Ibrox club have until Friday 15 June to provide documentation to the league or they could face sanctions."

"the financial documents sought by the SPL are required for participation in next season's top flight. "

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18240543

thats them cheating again!!!!

has anybody else been allowed this perios of grace in the past?

I have a bit of sympathy with the SPL in this instance. It would be almost impossible for RFC to get an audit done while they were in administration, so they were not in a position to comply with the regulations. In itself the crime is not that great - it wasn't even a requirement until this year - and expelling them on the back of it would be unduly harsh. It's notable that the deadline is the day after the CVA meeting so it's difficult to see how they are going to manage to get the accounts out in time even then.

I think they've done their wee pink cousins a favour though, because they were also late in submitting their accounts and the SPL couldn't be seen to take action against them while giving RFC a period of grace.

[Caversham Green]

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This thing about Green making available a 'pot' of 8.5 million, or whatever, to appease the creditors, then spending millions which you haven't made available to them......is that allowed?
Basically saying: "Aye, I've got money, but you're no gettin it."?

Green only has to pay what the club is considered to be worth and it's very much a buyer's market. Even so, I think it's way undervalued but if the creditors think likewise they can vote against the CVA and possibly raise an action against the administrators.

[greenginger]

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One of the Duffers on Beeb radio a few minutes ago would not confirm the question that the dividend had been set at 20p in the £.

Spilt the breakfast on hearing that.

Then went on to say that the divi was based on a number of forecasted revenues which were yet to be crystallised. One of these being transfer receipts from the sale of players!!

Second accident at this point.

How can the divi be based on external factors which Duff and Duffer do not control??

Is this another Big Hoose o' cards??

They will probably include a provisional £ 25 million for the law suit against Collyer Bristow. Then when the case is lost the One penny in the pound will be reduced to a half penny for the case costs.

[s.a.m]

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Green only has to pay what the club is considered to be worth and it's very much a buyer's market. Even so, I think it's way undervalued but if the creditors think likewise they can vote against the CVA and possibly raise an action against the administrators.

Thanks for that.

[Caversham Green]

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One of the Duffers on Beeb radio a few minutes ago would not confirm the question that the dividend had been set at 20p in the £.

Spilt the breakfast on hearing that.

Then went on to say that the divi was based on a number of forecasted revenues which were yet to be crystallised. One of these being transfer receipts from the sale of players!!

Second accident at this point.

How can the divi be based on external factors which Duff and Duffer do not control??

Is this another Big Hoose o' cards??

The future sale of existing assets can be included as part of the CVA settlement. For example, in the year ended 31 May 2008 Motherwell paid 50% of transfer fees received to pre-administration creditors. This might be a way that the CVA could be accepted, but 20p in the £ seems more than a bit optimistic.

[Jim44]

So when the CVA goes through, and I think we all know it probably will, and when Doncaster, Regan and Tom Dick and Harry blazer brigade cook the books to ease Rangers as unscathed as possible back into the SPL (well they've never really been away have they?), Rangers under the mega-rich Green consortium will be the richest, free-est of debt football club in Scotland and possibly Britain?

[BarneyK]

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Green only has to pay what the club is considered to be worth and it's very much a buyer's market. Even so, I think it's way undervalued but if the creditors think likewise they can vote against the CVA and possibly raise an action against the administrators.

It's another example of the arrogance of them that they can be making public declarations of "transfer warchests" and the like whilst trying to plead poverty on a CVA. That's the thing that sticks in the craw. Hopefully the creditors will tell them where to go.

[greenginger]

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The future sale of existing assets can be included as part of the CVA settlement. For example, in the year ended 31 May 2008 Motherwell paid 50% of transfer fees received to pre-administration creditors. This might be a way that the CVA could be accepted, but 20p in the £ seems more than a bit optimistic.

But what would happen to the creditors pot if the new owners failed/refused to sell any players . Would the creditors have any come-back ?

[PatHead]

Don't know what we are worrying about.

Whilst Rangers have won umpteen trophies with the taxpayers money, shafted everyone on and off the pitch and been invited back into the SPL with next to no punishment. Hearts have signed players whilst not paying there own, bumped the taxman and anyone else they can get away with and won 2 Scottish Cups and qualified for Champions League and Europa League whilst behaving like this, Motherwell have been in administration twice and have qualified for the Europa League and now qualify for Champions League. We, along with Celtic and St Mirren, have been awarded a gold star for running our business correctly. I'm sure there will be a nice rosette in our trophy room for being a good boy.

Now can someone remind me why I should spend my hard earned cash on watching such a tainted product?

(I'm not bitter honest)

[Jim44]

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It's another example of the arrogance of them that they can be making public declarations of "transfer warchests" and the like whilst trying to plead poverty on a CVA. That's the thing that sticks in the craw. Hopefully the creditors will tell them where to go.

Are these creditors sitting back in isolation waiting to to see how much they are being ripped off for or will they have closed ranks to come up with a concerted agreement or disagreement? I hope they have some kind of solidarity.

[BarneyK]

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So when the CVA goes through, and I think we all know it probably will, and when Doncaster, Regan and Tom Dick and Harry blazer brigade cook the books to ease Rangers as unscathed as possible back into the SPL (well they've never really been away have they?), Rangers under the mega-rich Green consortium will be the richest, free-est of tax football club in Scotland and possibly Britain?

The same thing applies with a newco, albeit with a few additional sanctions shoved in there. The SPL investigation into the EBT/dual contracts is the one that should really hammer them. It won't, probably, but really should.

[jane_says]

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Craig Thomson a stick on for being one of those refs

My first thoughts exactly

[BarneyK]

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Are these creditors sitting back in isolation waiting to to see how much they are being ripped off for or will they have closed ranks to come up with a concerted agreement or disagreement? I hope they have some kind of solidarity.

As do I. Their avoidance of tax has cheated us once, their avoidance of subsequent responsibility cheats us again.

[Caversham Green]

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But what would happen to the creditors pot if the new owners failed/refused to sell any players . Would the creditors have any come-back ?

I doubt it, and that's something the creditors will have to bear in mind.

It's possible that there could be an undertaking to transfer list some players as part of the proposal but if no-one wants to buy them there's probably not much the creditors can do.

[Spike Mandela]

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I doubt it, and that's something the creditors will have to bear in mind.

It's possible that there could be an undertaking to transfer list some players as part of the proposal but if no-one wants to buy them there's probably not much the creditors can do.

What's your gut feeling Cav? Are the creditor's going to go for this? Have we wasted 300 odd pages of thread?

[green glory]

I think Duff and Duffer fully intend and expect the CVA proposal to be rejected by the creditors.

[StevieC]

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What's your gut feeling Cav? Are the creditor's going to go for this? Have we wasted 300 odd pages of thread?

Is it not the case that there are only two creditors that count, HMRC and Ticketus?

I cant help but feel that there has been something going on behind the scenes regarding Ticketus and that they'll have some sort of sweetener lined up should they accept. My gut feeling is that what happens next is down to the HMRC.

[Barney McGrew]

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But what would happen to the creditors pot if the new owners failed/refused to sell any players

Which if they have a ban on signing new players is highly likely

[Phil MaGlass]

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Don't know what we are worrying about.

Whilst Rangers have won umpteen trophies with the taxpayers money, shafted everyone on and off the pitch and been invited back into the SPL with next to no punishment. Hearts have signed players whilst not paying there own, bumped the taxman and anyone else they can get away with and won 2 Scottish Cups and qualified for Champions League and Europa League whilst behaving like this, Motherwell have been in administration twice and have qualified for the Europa League and now qualify for Champions League. We, along with Celtic and St Mirren, have been awarded a gold star for running our business correctly. I'm sure there will be a nice rosette in our trophy room for being a good boy.

Now can someone remind me why I should spend my hard earned cash on watching such a tainted product? (I'm not bitter honest)

This, and definitely the bit in bold.

[TrickyNicky]

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Don't know what we are worrying about.

Whilst Rangers have won umpteen trophies with the taxpayers money, shafted everyone on and off the pitch and been invited back into the SPL with next to no punishment. Hearts have signed players whilst not paying there own, bumped the taxman and anyone else they can get away with and won 2 Scottish Cups and qualified for Champions League and Europa League whilst behaving like this, Motherwell have been in administration twice and have qualified for the Europa League and now qualify for Champions League. We, along with Celtic and St Mirren, have been awarded a gold star for running our business correctly. I'm sure there will be a nice rosette in our trophy room for being a good boy.

Now can someone remind me why I should spend my hard earned cash on watching such a tainted product?

(I'm not bitter honest)

Maybe we could have a wee gold star above our badge in the inaugural " UEFA We Paid Our Taxes On Time And Lived A Little Within Our Means Cup "!

[greenginger]

Best case scenario for me would be an initial acceptance of the CVA and then on the last day of the cooling off period HMRC or Ticketus change their mind putting them into liquidation on about 14th August. That would sink them without trace.

[Spike Mandela]

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Maybe we could have a wee gold star above our badge in the inaugural " UEFA We Paid Our Taxes On Time And Lived A Little Within Our Means Cup "!

We could have the latin for doormats and losers printed underneath

Ostiumnosce et Victos.

[TrickyNicky]

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We could have the latin for doormats and losers printed underneath

Ostiumnosce et Victos.

Maybe even a wee embroidered list of our recent financial honours!

" 1999-2012, on time and exemplary "

[Caversham Green]

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What's your gut feeling Cav? Are the creditor's going to go for this? Have we wasted 300 odd pages of thread?

Difficult to say without knowing the full details of the proposal, but I can't see how '£8.5m less administrators fees plus potential salesof what's left after the big earners have walked as a result of their wage reduction agreements' is anything other than insulting to the holders of at least £55m of debts. Particularly when the potential buyer is issuing a brochure that boasts of £113m worth of property - http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/footbal...6908-23877576/

[PatHead]

Notice the latest from BBC saying D & P still can't issue the CVA yet but "very much hope" the 2 biggest creditors will agree to its issue. Not the strongest of all phrases.

Maybe the attempt to bully HMRC in the media hasn't worked and its not quite the done deal we were led to believe was happening. Liquidation here we come...........

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18240543

[BarneyK]

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Difficult to say without knowing the full details of the proposal, but I can't see how '£8.5m less administrators fees plus potential salesof what's left after the big earners have walked as a result of their wage reduction agreements' is anything other than insulting to the holders of at least £55m of debts. Particularly when the potential buyer is issuing a brochure that boasts of £113m worth of property - http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/footbal...6908-23877576/

That just shows the arrogance of them. Absolutely scandalous.

[Gus Fring]

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Notice the latest from BBC saying D & P still can't issue the CVA yet but "very much hope" the 2 biggest creditors will agree to its issue. Not the strongest of all phrases.

Maybe the attempt to bully HMRC in the media hasn't worked and its not quite the done deal we were led to believe was happening. Liquidation here we come...........

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18240543

I "very much hope" that Messi decides to give up the cash and trophies and help out Hibs for a season or 2. Bugger all chance of it happening though.

[Geo_1875]

They really can't be expecting the main creditors to swallow their feeble attempt at a CVA. They can't confirm the settlement figure as it's reliant on income from suing other people and possible transfer fees due to Rangers. They really must be having a laugh.