Generic Sevco / Rangers meltdown thread

[bighairyfaeleith]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I think that the BBC doesn't have evidence of a side letter. It doesn't mean that one doesn't exist. It's highly unlikely that anyone applied from a 'loan' from a trust that they had no idea about.

exactly, why would you apply for a loan, that doesn't need to be repaid, and only apply for 30k, surely you would want at least a million

[One Day Soon]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Probably was the plan from the start

Clever lad. Follow the money....

[Part/Time Supporter]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

After Duff and Duffer get their jotters the next question should be asked of the current SFA president, who took £95k out tax free.

Campbell Ogilvie did know. He must tender his resignation immediately.

Chick Dung was spinning the line a few months back, when it was revealed that Ogilvie had received EBT payments, that Ogilvie's payments would only pay for a "good night out". Well, either Campbell was telling him porkies, or Chick's idea of a night out is slightly different from most.

[Mon Dieu4]

Just checked a Hun forum for a chuckle and the consensus is

who is Sammy I've never seen him at Ibrox
BBC have no evidence its a sham
Sammy deserves a kicking
Graham Spiers new name is Britney( which did actually make me laugh)
If there was that much evidence we would have a ruling by now
Sammy is like an only excuse character(don't think they get irony)
the BBC is run by taigs
Sammy is a Celtic plant


don't think they like poor old Sammy much Haha

[One Day Soon]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

exactly, why would you apply for a loan, that doesn't need to be repaid, and only apply for 30k, surely you would want at least a million

Bollocks. That's unfair. By the way BHFL, can I ask you for loan of 100k? I don't know if you do loans, or even if you exist but I just thought I would completely randomly ask you for a loan that I'm hoping you might say yes to on the basis of my never having to repay it. That ok for you?

[bighairyfaeleith]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Bollocks. That's unfair. By the way BHFL, can I ask you for loan of 100k? I don't know if you do loans, or even if you exist but I just thought I would completely randomly ask you for a loan that I'm hoping you might say yes to on the basis of my never having to repay it. That ok for you?

no worries I'll just borrow it from another BHFL scheme anyways so it's all cool

[Sylar]

Other than the complicity of Duff and Phelps in the administration and takeover, it didn't tell us anything we didn't already know.

Perhaps the extent of the EBT scheme (which is staggering) but when one of the recipients is the president of the SFA, do you really see any damning outcomes from their investigation?

Self preservation has always been the order of the day with the SPL and undoubtedly, they'll sweep most of this under the Hampden turf.

What happens on a legal front is another matter - I would fully expect that Duff and Phelps need to come out and quickly make a statement in response to all of this or they'll swiftly be removed and proceedings perhaps started against them.

What they say may not even have a bearing actually - I'd expect they simply MUST be taken out of the process and investigated.

[snooky]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Surely we are at the stage where the boys in blue start to take an interest? Some of this seems clearly criminal.

Doubt it - Probably the same scenario as Duff and Duffer suing themselves, IMO

[bighairyfaeleith]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Other than the complicity of Duff and Phelps in the administration and takeover, it didn't tell us anything we didn't already know.

Perhaps the extent of the EBT scheme (which is staggering) but when one of the recipients is the president of the SFA, do you really see any damning outcomes from their investigation?

Self preservation has always been the order of the day with the SPL and undoubtedly, they'll sweep most of this under the Hampden turf.

What happens on a legal front is another matter - I would fully expect that Duff and Phelps need to come out and quickly make a statement in response to all of this or they'll swiftly be removed and proceedings perhaps started against them.

What they say may not even have a bearing actually - I'd expect they simply MUST be taken out of the process and investigated.

one for CWG or caversham i suspect, but who can remove an administrator, the courts?

Who would then investigate them, the police?

[Sylar]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I would fully expect that Duff and Phelps need to come out and quickly make a statement in response to all of this or they'll swiftly be removed and proceedings perhaps started against them.

Statement quickly released from Duff and Phelps, ignoring all accusations leveled at them:

Paul Clark, joint administrator, said: "The use of EBTs at Rangers goes back many years and was a matter of public record in the annual accounts. Our primary focus has been ensuring the survival of Rangers Football Club and attracting a new buyer for the business as well as investigating the financial situation at the Club since the takeover in May 2011. We and the Club will continue to give every assistance to the football authorities on issues affecting the Club. It should, however, be noted that the First Tier Tax tribunal has yet to publish its findings in relation to the use of EBTs."

[One Day Soon]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

no worries I'll just borrow it from another BHFL scheme anyways so it's all cool

I don't know anything about that. I don't know where your money comes from. I don't care where your money comes from. I just take it and spend it and never pay it back. To me you are a giant fruit machine that pays out the jackpot every time I play it. And I don't even have to put any coins into it. You're such a good fruit machine that you pay out to all my mates on every play too.

[bighairyfaeleith]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Statement quickly released from Duff and Phelps, ignoring all accusations leveled at them:

that statement completely ignores there knowledge of the ticketus deal during the buyout

[One Day Soon]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

that statement completely ignores there knowledge of the ticketus deal during the buyout

Yep. The dog that is spectacularly not barking right now.

[CropleyWasGod]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

one for CWG or caversham i suspect, but who can remove an administrator, the courts?

Who would then investigate them, the police?

The Court can remove an Administrator, but I think there would have to be a petition from some other interested party, eg a creditor.

As for investigation, unless there was a suggestion of fraud, the only one I could see would be one by D & P's professional body for the alleged conflict of interest.

A side note.... it rips my knitting that people constantly refer to , in this case the forensic accountant, the Institute of Chartered Accountants.There ain't no such beast. There is the ICA of Scotland, the ICA of Ireland, and the ICA in England and Wales. Rant done.

[Sylar]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

one for CWG or caversham i suspect, but who can remove an administrator, the courts?

Who would then investigate them, the police?

If the courts can appoint the administrator, I'm pretty sure they would have recourse to remove an administrator, particularly if the major creditor appealed in light of what we've seen tonight. Clearly with conflicting interests such as those highlight suggest they aren't fit for purpose.

I dare say legal investigation is one route open - there'll undoubtedly be a regulatory body for accountants who could probably also investigate them (maybe even the FSA, but I don't know if that extends beyond the banking industry) but I agree, probably one of the more knowledgeable chaps to answer.

[One Day Soon]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

The Court can remove an Administrator, but I think there would have to be a petition from some other interested party, eg a creditor.

As for investigation, unless there was a suggestion of fraud, the only one I could see would be one by D & P's professional body for the conflict of interest.

A side note.... it rips my knitting that people constantly refer to , in this case the forensic accountant, the Institute of Chartered Accountants.There ain't no such beast. There is the ICA of Scotland, the ICA of Ireland, and the ICA in England and Wales. Rant done.

Or CIMA, or ACCA...

Do HMRC really just sit on the sidelines with D&P still in place given the clear conflict of interest revealed tonight? Surely they must petition?

[Sylar]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

The Court can remove an Administrator, but I think there would have to be a petition from some other interested party, eg a creditor.

As for investigation, unless there was a suggestion of fraud, the only one I could see would be one by D & P's professional body for the alleged conflict of interest.

A side note.... it rips my knitting that people constantly refer to , in this case the forensic accountant, the Institute of Chartered Accountants.There ain't no such beast. There is the ICA of Scotland, the ICA of Ireland, and the ICA in England and Wales. Rant done.

Are the regulatory differences between the ICA of Scotland/England and Wales likely to be substantially different to permit the type of behaviour we've seen from this evening though?

I'd imagine the "fit and proper" test would be transferable across all UK/Irish accountancy firms, within the structure of British finance law?

[snooky]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Yep. The dog that is spectacularly not barking right now.

Is it a Golden Receiver?

[CropleyWasGod]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Or CIMA, or ACCA...

Do HMRC really just sit on the sidelines with D&P still in place given the clear conflict of interest revealed tonight? Surely they must petition?

It's only an allegation at the moment. The BBC have been wrong before.

I suspect that HMRC will want to consider their position carefully, and get as much of the "evidence" that the BBC seem to have, before thy hit the Court.

D&P could, of course, resign.

[stokesmessiah]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I just had a quick look on rangersmedia as can't get the programme in cork...apparently nothing new and nothing to worry about

Sadly i think they are almost right....That will not change a thing.

[CropleyWasGod]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Are the regulatory differences between the ICA of Scotland/England and Wales likely to be substantially different to permit the type of behaviour we've seen from this evening though?

I'd imagine the "fit and proper" test would be transferable across all UK/Irish accountancy firms, within the structure of British finance law?

They will be exactly the same. My point was one of pedantry, that the forensic chap was introduced as a member of a body that doesn't freaking exist....

[grunt]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

A side note.... it rips my knitting that people constantly refer to , in this case the forensic accountant, the Institute of Chartered Accountants.There ain't no such beast. There is the ICA of Scotland, the ICA of Ireland, and the ICA in England and Wales. Rant done.

Heh heh. I think we all know that when people talk about THE Institute of Chartered Accountants, they are referring to ICAEW.

[green glory]

I'm guessing the likelihood of HMRC petitioning the Court of Session to have their own admins appointed, as per the original intention will become increasingly likely now?

A buyer in place and CVA agreed by 6th June, and a newco formed in time for next season are looking like utter fantasy now.

Looking at that bottle of single malt on the sideboard I'm saving for liquidation day. Shouldn't be long now till I get to open it.

[hibsbollah]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotlan...-west-18148818

That is a great list

Some on there got a loan equivelant to £30,000 per game played

After an enjoyable hour sped past watching that...surely a series must be possible with the speed of at the moment...would make the football free summer better and go well with our thread

Alex Rae £569,000??? The boy done well

[Kaiser1962]

It did, however, provide evidence of what we all thought.

A wee bit surprised to see George Adams on that list.

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Other than the complicity of Duff and Phelps in the administration and takeover, it didn't tell us anything we didn't already know.

Perhaps the extent of the EBT scheme (which is staggering) but when one of the recipients is the president of the SFA, do you really see any damning outcomes from their investigation?

Self preservation has always been the order of the day with the SPL and undoubtedly, they'll sweep most of this under the Hampden turf.

What happens on a legal front is another matter - I would fully expect that Duff and Phelps need to come out and quickly make a statement in response to all of this or they'll swiftly be removed and proceedings perhaps started against them.

What they say may not even have a bearing actually - I'd expect they simply MUST be taken out of the process and investigated.

[CropleyWasGod]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Heh heh. I think we all know that when people talk about THE Institute of Chartered Accountants, they are referring to ICAEW.

F R O

There is a senior employee at ICAS, part of whose job it is to come down heavily on anybody who follows the branding of ICAEW as THE ICA.

[DaveF]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

The Court can remove an Administrator, but I think there would have to be a petition from some other interested party, eg a creditor.

As for investigation, unless there was a suggestion of fraud, the only one I could see would be one by D & P's professional body for the alleged conflict of interest.

A side note.... it rips my knitting that people constantly refer to , in this case the forensic accountant, the Institute of Chartered Accountants.There ain't no such beast. There is the ICA of Scotland, the ICA of Ireland, and the ICA in England and Wales. Rant done.

[CropleyWasGod]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Yeah, but I can assure you that the guys at D&P won't be members of ICAS.

[Sylar]

Interesting to note that there is also evidence that Celtic used an EBT which they did not declare to the SPL to aid in the payment of Juninho when he was with the club - granted, the amount is paltry by comparison to Rangers but nonetheless, they're clearly not alone in using the system and failing to declare:

Celtic confirmed that it established one EBT scheme in April 2005, which BBC Scotland understands was for the benefit of the Brazilian midfielder Juninho Paulista. The scheme was worth £765,000 but the club did not declare the trust payment to the Scottish Football Association or the Scottish Premier League.

[camhibby1]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

The Court can remove an Administrator, but I think there would have to be a petition from some other interested party, eg a creditor.

As for investigation, unless there was a suggestion of fraud, the only one I could see would be one by D & P's professional body for the alleged conflict of interest.

A side note.... it rips my knitting that people constantly refer to , in this case the forensic accountant, the Institute of Chartered Accountants.There ain't no such beast. There is the ICA of Scotland, the ICA of Ireland, and the ICA in England and Wales. Rant done.

Didn't HMRC originally apply to have an administrator appointed and Whyte furiously argued for D&P in the court? My guess is that a great deal of the EBT content has been leaked from within HMRC and that this may actually be a prelude for HMRC, as the major creditor, to go back to the court, have D&P kicked out and then have their own administrators appointed leading to eventual liquidation. What is now obvious is the inadequacy of the SPL's rules and Doncaster's disingenuous attempts to justify the newco route without penalties. I doubt when the rules were first drawn up that anyone thought that 'we are the people' would embark upon a cheating and alleged criminal route. Close them down and expel them which we were told last week after the appeal was an option available to the committee originally appointed.