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View Poll Results: What is your attitude to a new "Rangers" entering at Div1?

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  • Opposed - and will walk away from Scottish professional football

    533 53.09%
  • Opposed - but will continue to support the game.

    447 44.52%
  • In favour.

    24 2.39%
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  1. #4591
    Testimonial Due blindsummit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by keekaboo View Post
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    Wow! That guy is unbelievable!
    What a pile of steaming ordure! The non-excuse for not paying their tax has to be the most repellent thing I have heard in this whole sorry saga.


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  3. #4592
    @hibs.net private member johnrebus's Avatar
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    I think I love Craig Whyte.


  4. #4593
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    Thought this was an interesting interview

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode...nd_05_04_2012/

  5. #4594
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    Quote Originally Posted by greenginger View Post
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    I loved the " I could'nt pay HMRC for the VAT and Tax etc because the Clubs bank accounts had been frozen "

    There had been money due from May 2011 to January 2012 that was not paid and it was the tax man's fault for freezing the accounts in February 2012.
    I think he's talking about the two arrestment orders in September and October 2011 by Bain and McIntyre for £900k. Not being able to pay £900k doesn't impact much on the debt of £14.3m. It's very annoying when interviewers just let these comments pass without calling them for the rubbish they are.

  6. #4595
    Testimonial Due WindyMiller's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by grunt View Post
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    Thought this was an interesting interview

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode...nd_05_04_2012/

    Probably the most relevant interview I've heard during this drama.

  7. #4596
    Quote Originally Posted by grunt View Post
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    I think he's talking about the two arrestment orders in September and October 2011 by Bain and McIntyre for £900k. Not being able to pay £900k doesn't impact much on the debt of £14.3m. It's very annoying when interviewers just let these comments pass without calling them for the rubbish they are.
    When they insist on sending the most ardent Gers fans going to ask the questions it defeats the purpose.

    Saying that, surely of all of us, they'd be wanting answers? Guess it just goes to show the sports journos up here are bought and paid for.

  8. #4597
    Quote Originally Posted by WindyMiller View Post
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    Probably the most relevant interview I've heard during this drama.
    IMHO, just been superseded by the former chairman of Leeds United, on BBC Radio Sportsound (check the RS website, it should be up just after 7 p.m.)

    He says that the RFC problem will not be solved by well-meaning millionaires, but by a billionaire where total money does not matter.

    He also says RFC will take years to escape from this operationally and added that issues like the double contracts will not go away.

    He's of the view as well that any Newco will face huge cashflow issues with the payroll as high as it is and that will mean significant depletion of the squad.
    Last edited by ancienthibby; 06-04-2012 at 05:36 PM.

  9. #4598
    Testimonial Due green glory's Avatar
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    CW was supposed to appear in front of the SFA today. He didn't turn up apparently.

  10. #4599
    Quote Originally Posted by ScottB View Post
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    When they insist on sending the most ardent Gers fans going to ask the questions it defeats the purpose.

    Saying that, surely of all of us, they'd be wanting answers? Guess it just goes to show the sports journos up here are bought and paid for.
    Sports journalism is even worse than celebrity journalism these days. It's a bit of a stretch to even call it journalism. Generally speaking, the sports journalists just don't have a clue about any of this (they struggle with football!), so any stories regarding Rangers should be covered by financial journalists at the moment. I suspect this is the main reason we are getting very little in the way of revealing or thought-provoking stories.

  11. #4600
    @hibs.net private member Stonewall's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cilla Black View Post
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    Sports journalism is even worse than celebrity journalism these days. It's a bit of a stretch to even call it journalism. Generally speaking, the sports journalists just don't have a clue about any of this (they struggle with football!), so any stories regarding Rangers should be covered by financial journalists at the moment. I suspect this is the main reason we are getting very little in the way of revealing or thought-provoking stories.
    That's because it isn't journalism it's PR. Chic Young has admitted as much.

    There's a great quote from Lord Beaverbrook on the subject which I can't find. If anyone knows it please post.

  12. #4601
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stonewall View Post
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    That's because it isn't journalism it's PR. Chic Young has admitted as much.

    There's a great quote from Lord Beaverbrook on the subject which I can't find. If anyone knows it please post.
    I think the one you are looking for was when he said he ran the paper "purely for the purposes of making propaganda and for no other purpose"

  13. #4602
    Love this thread and posts on it , i know squat about the ins and outs , but are the huns going into the blender ?, and is CW a patsy ?

  14. #4603
    @hibs.net private member TrinityHibs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stoneyburn hibs View Post
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    Love this thread and posts on it , i know squat about the ins and outs , but are the huns going into the blender ?, and is CW a patsy ?
    £10 from me if I can press the button

  15. #4604
    @hibs.net private member lapsedhibee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrinityHibs View Post
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    £10 from me if I can press the button
    Think you might have started something there.

    £15 from me if I can do it.

  16. #4605
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    Quote Originally Posted by reallapsedhibee View Post
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    Think you might have started something there.

    £15 from me if I can do it.
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  17. #4606
    @hibs.net private member McD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by keekaboo View Post
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    As a Contractor, I was offered a similar sounding scheme to this EBT business. I would be paid 60% of my fee directly and the other 40% would be paid as a loan, from somewhere in the Channel Islands. This would mean that the 40% would not be subject to taxation. My worries were along the lines of 1) How could I trust them to ever pay something that is described as "discretionary", or to never ask for repayment if it's legally a loan? 2) How could it possibly be legal to avoid tax for payment that is quite clearly provided for work that I'd undertaken, and would be given to me for no other reason?

    My immediate thought was that it sounded dodgy and if something sounds too good to be true, it normally is, so I declined. Now, I don't claim to be any expert on these things so surely if someone as thick as pig sh*t like myself can see through this, how come nobody at Rangers ever questioned it?



    In saying that, if a court in England can decide that a payment to a football manager's pet doesn't sound in the least bit suspicious, maybe I should have gone ahead and said yes.....

    I'm hoping this will actually work against Rangers. HMRC got their fingers burnt with the Harry Redknapp case, where they obviously thought they had a solid case, so I think they will now be pursuing Rangers with even more zeal to show the UK football community that they can't take the piss out the tax man. HMRC lose this one (or lose the public battle by conceding to a CVA with a few pence in the pound), and it'll be open season in sticking 2 fingers up the taxation laws.

  18. #4607
    Coaching Staff jgl07's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by McD View Post
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    I'm hoping this will actually work against Rangers. HMRC got their fingers burnt with the Harry Redknapp case, where they obviously thought they had a solid case, so I think they will now be pursuing Rangers with even more zeal to show the UK football community that they can't take the piss out the tax man. HMRC lose this one (or lose the public battle by conceding to a CVA with a few pence in the pound), and it'll be open season in sticking 2 fingers up the taxation laws.
    Exactly.

    The whole thing was started by the Big Tax Case (now estimated at £75 million) and the Wee Tax Case (4 million).

    Since the takeover a further £14 million has been acrued in unpaid income tax, national insurance and VAT.

    Out of a total debt estimated at £93 million, HMRC would get around £11 million from a 13 pence in the pound CVA. Thast would not even cover the £14 million upaid tax since the Whyte takeover which would not have happened but for the two tax cases.

    So chasing Rangers for tax fiddling would lose them around £3 million if they accept a CVA! They would become a laughing stock (especially following the dodgy 'Arry case).

  19. #4608
    Promising Youngster Hongkong Phooey's Avatar
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    Sorry if posted earlier in the thread - think I've read most of it but you never know! I just got this from an Admin.FC supporting mate. Dunno the truth in it......

    START
    Some of these are crazy; we owe over a grand to a wee pub in Bearsden and £400 to a mini market in Milngavie! Also, over £300k owed to Man City- is that still us paying off the Weiss loan? Plus, I'm sure Whyte said we had paid Rapid the Jelavic money...we still owe them over a million!

    A K Ray, Ross Hall Hospital, Glasgow £150
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    ASL, East Sussex £2514
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    Adrian Coll, Balloch £1600
    Alan Duncan, Glasgow £1400
    Alexander West Property, Glasgow £2807
    Alison Walker TV, Bearsden £600
    Alliance Video, Surrey £204
    Aon Limited, London £14,151
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    Beyard Services, Beith £5559.60
    Bhutta’s Newsagents, Glasgow £567.45
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    Blooms UK Limited, Glasgow £70
    Brabners, Manchester £12,999
    Brentwood Estates, Manchester £42,963.06
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    British Gas £1,562.42
    BT £1,292.13
    Business Cost Consultants, Glasgow £6,240.60
    Business Stream, Edinburgh £9,727.22
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    Cairn Financial, London £4,127.60
    Cairns & Scott Caterhire, Glasgow £762
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    Campbell Medical Supplies, Paisley £3,386.73
    Camtec, Herts £552
    Canniesburn Taxis, Bearsden £269.69
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    Computershare Investor Service, Bristol, £23,855.03
    Craig Services & Access East Sussex £900
    Culture & Sport Glasgow £10,338.96
    Daily Record & Sunday Mail £312
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    Decco Limited, Glasgow £174.72
    Dell Computer Corporation, Berkshire £272.85
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    Dr David A S Marshall, Bridge of Weir £160
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    FES FM, Stirling £80,874.93
    FL Memo, London £116.86
    FX Signs, Glasgow £15,546.56
    G Media Mangement, Cheltenham £995
    G4S, Surrey £295,036.24
    GTG Training, Glasgow £396
    Gareth Neil Design, Glasgow £3,200
    Gerry McGeoch, Glasgow £150
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    Glasgow City Council £5,000
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    Glasgow Leading Attractions (The Willow Tea Rooms) £1,525
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    Gordon McKay, Blackridge £150
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    Hamilton Brothers, Bishopton £115.56
    Hay McKerron Associates, Milngavie £3,600
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    Media House, Glasgow £19,200
    MediaCom, Edinburgh £11,544.42
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    Michael Douglas, Glasgow £100
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    RS Components Limited, Northants £204.95
    Rangers Lotteries Ltd, Glasgow £105.80
    Reed Business Information, Surrey £2,764.80
    Renfrewshire Council HQ £108
    Restore Scotland, Paisley £579.74
    Rigby Taylor Limited, Bolton £10,762.16
    Rodgers Sercurity Systems, Glasgow £342.50
    Ross Hall Hospital, Glasgow £770.50
    Ross Promotional, Glasgow £1,022.88
    Royal Mail £3,262.54
    SDL Group, Glasgow £1,350
    SG World, Cheshire £577.56
    SIR Teknologi, West Sussex £TBC
    SK Rapid, Austria £1,011,763.44
    STRI, West Yorkshire £17.28
    Saffery Champness, Glasgow £31,028.01
    Scot-West Business Forms, Glasgow £749.60
    Scotprint, Haddington £7,514
    Scotrae Productions, Greenock £17,058.94
    Scottish Ambulance Service £8,438.40
    Scottish Hydro Electric £62,527.30
    Scottish Power £302.44
    Search Promotional Merchandise, Buckinghamshire £6,240
    Shanks Waste Management, Southampton £122.58
    Sharon Agnew, Glasgow £460
    Shawfield Timber, Glasgow, £786.24
    Shell UK £7,637.94
    Shields Land Rover, Glasgow £246.75
    Shred-it Glasgow £444
    Sign Plus, Dunfermline £2,473.22
    Signature Industries, London £1,507.90
    Simplewaste Solutions, Clydebank £17,626.26
    Sinclair Pharmacy, Glasgow £1,909.79
    Slater Menswear , Glasgow £688.31
    Solutions.tv, Glasgow £2,652
    Sound Acoustic Productions, Glasgow £12,000
    Souters Irrigation Services, Cumbernauld £456
    Spike Multiedia, Giffnock £5,312.50
    Sporting iD, Tyne and Wear £144.70
    Sportopps.com, Belfast £150
    Sports Alliance, Bury £2,006.65
    Sports Revolution, London £5,034.52
    Stellar Football, London £72,000
    Stirling Fire Protection £1,149.30
    Stockline Plastics, Glasgow £258
    Strathclyde Police £51,882
    Striking Imagery, Cumbernauld £113.51
    Stuart MacMorran, Clydebank £422.50
    Summit Asset Management, Surrey £70,555.88
    Susan Thomson Your Sonsie Face, Glasgow £40
    TNT £1,255.39
    Tabs FM, London, £1,980
    Tellcomm Limited, West Midlands £6,435.89
    The Arco Group, Hull £443.43
    The Brite Bulb, Bishopbriggs £3,209.64
    The Burnbrae, Bearsden £1,403.88
    The Business & Property Bureau, Bearsden £7,376
    The Business Incentives Group, Glasgow £1,893.60
    The City of Edinburgh Council £90
    The Fees Company, Edinburgh £118.16
    The Financial Times £3,480
    The Scottish Football League £3,859.92
    The Premier Property Group, Edinburgh £103,210.96
    Thistle International Freight, Paisley £128.42
    Thistle Storage Equipment, Cumbernauld £140.40
    Thomas Cook Sport, Manchester £129,216.56
    Ticket Team, Netherlands £873.36
    Ticketline Network, Manchester £11,668.67
    Trade UK (Screwfix) £77.01
    Trident Trust Company, Jersey £40,689.90
    UK Fast, Manchester £689.78
    US Citta di Palermo, Italy £205,513.04
    Umbro £1,756.05
    University of the West of Scotland £135
    Vodafone £204
    Voicescape, Manchester £786.84
    William Henderson, Glasgow £275
    Yuill & Kyle Solicitors, Glasgow £1,486.80
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    SPL £22,500
    SFA 11,089.04
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    Ticketus, London £26,700,000
    Debenture Holders (various) £7,736,000
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    Employees Various £TBC

  20. #4609
    Testimonial Due jodjam's Avatar
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    Posh Deli, Glasgow £260

    Surely a contradiction in terms or were the huns getting their Spam cut into little flute shaped bites.

  21. #4610
    Quote Originally Posted by stoneyburn hibs View Post
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    Love this thread and posts on it , i know squat about the ins and outs , but are the huns going into the blender ?, and is CW a patsy ?

    Thought this from the start and that others are pulling the strings here. Nothing has happened since Valentines Day to change my mind, As the extent of RFC's financial plight became apparent, in that Rangers appear to be in trouble even before the BTC comes into play, I am even more convinced this is part of plot to relieve the taxpayer, and others, of a lot of money.

    The authorities really need to look at how players can be "bought" and played yet not paid for. Wallace an example and it appears Man C have not been paid in full for the loan of Weiss. Jelevic has been sold on again yet Vienna still await payment of part of teh original deal. It why now appear obvious why Stephen Thomson didnt sell them Goodwillie yet, at the time, Traynor and his cohorts gave ST a pretty rough ride and asked answers why he "didnt do what's best for his club". He did and that much is now clear.

    Why are Dunfermline on the list? It was widely reported that they had been paid when clearly they havent been. I have never really bought into this whole press being deliberately and calculatingly biased towards the OF but I am now seriously questioning this given whats happened recently and previousy with the nonsense printed to alienate KT et al. which ultimately benefitted the OF.
    Last edited by The Falcon; 07-04-2012 at 08:10 AM.

  22. #4611
    Some of these are crazy; we owe over a grand to a wee pub in Bearsden and £400 to a mini market in Milngavie! Also, over £300k owed to Man City- is that still us paying off the Weiss loan? Plus, I'm sure Whyte said we had paid Rapid the Jelavic money...we still owe them over a million!

    If the full list of creditors from the adminstrator report (pages 48-50) was to be printed out in font 12 (not the tiny font in the report), it would take up 8-10 pages of A4.

    It would make a good game for a rainy Easter to speculate what these debts are for. You mention Milngavie Mini Market and I imagine the first team not having anything to eat at Murray Park, the regular suppliers are refusing to supply, Ally jumps in his car and nips into Milngavie and with promises of possible contracts and 'just invoice the club, we are Rangers' he comes back with cheese and onion crisps, mars bars, sandwiches and diet coke.

  23. #4612
    Quote Originally Posted by WhileTheChief.. View Post
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    There was a big bit about this on Sportsound the other night with St Mirren director Ken McGeough, the guy that was accused of cooking up a deal with CW. The whole thing about a ploy to buy St Mirren in case the Huns get liquidated was a piece of nonsence. It did sound a bit murky because he was using Collier & Bristow as his lawyers but there was nothing in it at all according to McGeough. His busainess partner , Paul Davies i think, was involved with Rangers though but that was something to do with building a community gym and a separate issue.

    I think the media just put 2 + 2 and came up with some random number because it was a good story.

    In fairness to Chick he was all over it.

    You can listen to the podcast here ....http://www.bbc.co.uk/podcasts/series...t#playepisode3
    I've listened to that now and take it back about Chick - he asked reasonable enough questions throughout. I can't say the same about McGeough though. His story is full of holes and he would have to have been incredibly naive or stupid not th see the dangers of his actions.
    Last edited by Caversham Green; 07-04-2012 at 08:00 AM.

  24. #4613
    Coaching Staff Lucius Apuleius's Avatar
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    Gamertag: TheBull1875
    Knowing the founder and ex MD of Azure, it is pleasing to see them listed. Just wish she was still running them.

  25. #4614
    Quote Originally Posted by Seveno View Post
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    Having the day off, I decided to exercise my mind to see if I could come up with Duff & Duffer's master plan that doesn't involve THE MIGHTY GLASGOOOOO RRRRRRANGERS going into liquidation. Here's my wizard wheeze.

    An American VC, let's call them SClub7, set up two companies - let's call these Towering Wave 1 and Towering Wave 2.

    TW1 buys Rangers for £1.15. It then sells the Rangers brand, player contracts and physical assets for say £25m to TW2, leaving all liabilities including major creditors, Ticketless and Hector, in TW1. With this £25m, they liquidate TW1 giving all creditors about 25p in the pound. A better deal than they could get if there is immediate liquidation.

    Meanwhile, TW2 change their name to Rangers Football Club Ltd and reach an agreement with the SPL, SFA and Uefa that they are essentially the same entity as the football club ( or cheating tax dodgers as we know them ) as before and that their existing licence, status and trophy record remain.

    Now, you may ask ' How do they get Craigie to agree to this ? ' . Well, go on then, ask.

    Okay, they have given him £1.15 which equates to a 15% return on his original investment. They also give him a one way airline ticket to a South American country that does not have an extradition treaty with the UK. For good measure, they also give him a change of identity kit and lessons in Spanish/ Portuguese.

    With CWG gone AWOL, I invite CavG to pick holes in this.
    Maybe I'm being thick but I'm not seeing the need for TW1 - unless you're suggesting that has already happened . Other than that I think it's not far off what would happen if they go down the Newco route. Their problem would still be convincing UEFA that they weren't a new company. I doubt if they would have any problems with the other two given the noises (or lack of noises) that have been emanating from them recently.

    Regarding CW, I don't think he's in as strong a position as he is claiming. He bought the club for a quid and proceeded to diminish its value by selling future revenues. As it stands, the club is not a going concern and has no net asset value, so it's worth about £1 less than he paid for it. If he doesn't agree to part with his shares the administrators could (and should IMO) conclude that the club cannot continue under his ownership and liquidate it.

  26. #4615
    Testimonial Due Geo_1875's Avatar
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    How are they allowed to play home games if they owe Strathclyde Police over £50k?

  27. #4616
    Quote Originally Posted by The Falcon View Post
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    Thought this from the start and that others are pulling the strings here. Nothing has happened since Valentines Day to change my mind, As the extent of RFC's financial plight became apparent, in that Rangers appear to be in trouble even before the BTC comes into play, I am even more convinced this is part of plot to relieve the taxpayer, and others, of a lot of money. There would appear to be a very fine line between what is happening at Ibrox and a large scale fraud.

    The authorities really need to look at how players can be "bought" and played yet not paid for. Wallace an example and it appears Man C have not been paid in full for the loan of Weiss. Jelevic has been sold on again yet Vienna still await payment of part of teh original deal. It why now appear obvious why Stephen Thomson didnt sell them Goodwillie yet, at the time, Traynor and his cohorts gave ST a pretty rough ride and asked answers why he "didnt do what's best for his club". He did and that much is now clear.

    Why are Dunfermline on the list? It was widely reported that they had been paid when clearly they havent been. I have never really bought into this whole press being deliberately and calculatingly biased towards the OF but I am now seriously questioning this given whats happened recently and previousy with the nonsense printed to alienate KT et al. which ultimately benefitted the OF.
    It's crossed my mind that there's some image-laundering going on.

    RFC in deep financial doo-doo and SDM needs them out of his empire so they need a patsy to buy it, clean out the debt and sell it on. Along comes just such a person, finances the purchase through the Ticketus deal and is then forced to take the club into administration - and possible liquidation. And then along comes a consortium headed by one of the previous directors (who got the club into the doo-doo in the first place) and rescues the club and gets it debt-free after the administration. Said former director is now a hero to the heaving masses while CW becomes the swivel-eyed bogeyman who is now seen as being responsible for all the club's former ills.

    I haven't worked out Ticketus's role in all that yet though.

  28. #4617
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geo_1875 View Post
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    How are they allowed to play home games if they owe Strathclyde Police over £50k?
    A handshake solves a lot of problems.

  29. #4618
    @hibs.net private member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geo_1875 View Post
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    How are they allowed to play home games if they owe Strathclyde Police over £50k?
    I would expect the admins are paying for current policing and that the debt relates to pre-admin times. There's a £204k expense item in the admin accounts for policing and security.

  30. #4619
    @hibs.net private member snooky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by steakbake View Post
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    A handshake solves a lot of problems.
    Aye, and does that no' get on yer goat.

  31. #4620
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    Quote Originally Posted by snooky View Post
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    Aye, and does that no' get on yer goat.
    It does but we're going to slaughter it at the next meeting..,

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