Generic Sevco / Rangers meltdown thread

[Spike Mandela]

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Nothing sweeter than the sound of those who dodge paying tax squealing when they’re squeezed to pay what they’re due.

[Ozyhibby]

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It may be.

But there's a long way between being assessed and actually accepting it.

Some may think that they can't afford to fight it, so will accept it and let events take their course. Someone, though... and not necessarily one of the Rangers EBT recipients, perhaps one of the English ones.... will take on HMRC and establish precedent. That may need some recipients to pool their resources to fund one appeal.

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Haven’t all the English clubs accepted their liability and settled with HMRC? I think it will only be Rangers players who will be left twisting in the wind because their club died.


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[CropleyWasGod]

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Haven’t all the English clubs accepted their liability and settled with HMRC? I think it will only be Rangers players who will be left twisting in the wind because their club died.


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The clubs ( and other companies in other industries) may have done, on the back of the test case that was RFC. I'm not sure about the recipients, though.

That's the next battleground, IMO. It is likely that that battle has already begun.

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[Ozyhibby]

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The clubs ( and other companies in other industries) may have done, on the back of the test case that was RFC. I'm not sure about the recipients, though.

That's the next battleground, IMO. It is likely that that battle has already begun.

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But if the clubs have settled the bill, surely HMRC won’t go after the players?




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[Ozyhibby]

https://www.lastditchtackle.com/blog...-just-not-fair


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[CropleyWasGod]

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But if the clubs have settled the bill, surely HMRC won’t go after the players?




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RFC have settled their bill, in that they have been held liable for it. It's irrelevant that only part of it will get paid.

But it seems that HMRC are still likely to pursue the players. So it follows that they will go after players of other clubs.

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[tamig]

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https://www.lastditchtackle.com/blog...-just-not-fair


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I was going to mention Novo’s claim about not speaking English earlier. Stupid hun plum.

[Ozyhibby]

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RFC have settled their bill, in that they have been held liable for it. It's irrelevant that only part of it will get paid.

But it seems that HMRC are still likely to pursue the players. So it follows that they will go after players of other clubs.

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But if their bills have been settled in full? Is it not only because old Rangers have not been able settle their bill that HMRC are coming after them instead?


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[CropleyWasGod]

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But if their bills have been settled in full? Is it not only because old Rangers have not been able settle their bill that HMRC are coming after them instead?


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That's not why HMRC would go after the players. If that were the case, they would be pursuing House of Fraser staff for the company's unpaid PAYE debt.

HMRC will go after the players because they think they have avoided tax. If they do it for Rangers, they will do it for other clubs.

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[lapsedhibee]

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That's not why HMRC would go after the players. If that were the case, they would be pursuing House of Fraser staff for the company's unpaid PAYE debt.

HMRC will go after the players because they think they have avoided tax. If they do it for Rangers, they will do it for other clubs.

Might not the settlement that Hector has reached with English clubs include those clubs paying the players' contributions as well as the clubs' own contributions (and the players' interest, and the players' penalties)? The clubs might have promised, like Rongers, to take care of any future problems for players.

[CropleyWasGod]

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Might not the settlement that Hector has reached with English clubs include those clubs paying the players' contributions as well as the clubs' own contributions (and the players' interest, and the players' penalties)? The clubs might have promised, like Rongers, to take care of any future problems for players.

If that's the case, there's precedent set. The RFC recipients can simply say "You did it for them, so do it for us. Go and try to get your money from the liquidator."

It would make sense in some ways. After all, it is PAYE and NIC that HMRC have lost out on.......which is where we were about 5 pages ago



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[lapsedhibee]

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If that's the case, there's precedent set. The RFC recipients can simply say "You did it for them, so do it for us. Go and try to get your money from the liquidator."

In which case Hector can then say "We tried to get it from the liquidator and couldn't. Therefore, we're getting it from you. And don't give me any of that House of Fraser pish - you and your highly paid advisers knew your employers were at it, HoF staff didn't."

[CropleyWasGod]

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In which case Hector can then say "We tried to get it from the liquidator and couldn't. Therefore, we're getting it from you. And don't give me any of that House of Fraser pish - you and your highly paid advisers knew your employers were at it, HoF staff didn't."

And then we'll be on to Series 9 with another tribunal

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[chinaman]

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Of course he would have signed for sevco for £10 a week, he's a clown.

He sits in amongst that lot while they all sing hate songs about his faith. Perhaps because he sells a few pints to them in his new bar, he has decided to ignore the blatant bigotry because he's nothing to gain from actually standing up and saying its wrong?

or maybe hes just a xxxxwit
like most of sevcos pond life

[lapsedhibee]

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And then we'll be on to Series 9 with another tribunal

I look forward most to Hector going after Mrs The Crab, even if that's against current rules.

[CropleyWasGod]

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I look forward most to Hector going after Mrs The Crab, even if that's against current rules.

Mr The Crab is out of bankruptcy, so he's fair game.

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[O'Rourke3]

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Mr The Crab is out of bankruptcy, so he's fair game.

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Does his previous take him out? I thought declaring bankruptcy cleared existing debt. Could he not claim it had gone with the rest or does Her Majesty have a special rule?

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[CropleyWasGod]

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Does his previous take him out? I thought declaring bankruptcy cleared existing debt. Could he not claim it had gone with the rest or does Her Majesty have a special rule?

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His previous debt will take a while to clear. His bankruptcy stopped the clock on being sued or taking on any more debt.

Now that he's out of it, he can take on more debt.... such as any new action by HMRC.

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[O'Rourke3]

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His previous debt will take a while to clear. His bankruptcy stopped the clock on being sued or taking on any more debt.

Now that he's out of it, he can take on more debt.... such as any new action by HMRC.

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Excellent..

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[Moulin Yarns]

Looks like HMRC are going after loads of others for earning 'loans'

On @BBCBreakfast 0845 Up to 50,000 IT workers, nurses, teachers, face back tax payments to 1999. Some say they will have to sell their homes or go bankrupt. They were partly paid by a loan rather than wages to reduce tax, as advised by accountants and agencies.

[CropleyWasGod]

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Looks like HMRC are going after loads of others for earning 'loans'

I haven't seen the full report, but I would doubt that nurses and teachers (most of whom are public employees) would be involved. If they are, they've been badly advised.

As for IT workers, many of whom will be paid through personal service companies and hence already paying less tax and NI than they would as employees.... If they're trying to reduce their tax even further..... hell mend 'em

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[Prof. Shaggy]

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I haven't seen the full report, but I would doubt that nurses and teachers (most of whom are public employees) would be involved. If they are, they've been badly advised.

As for IT workers, many of whom will be paid through personal service companies and hence already paying less tax and NI than they would as employees.... If they're trying to reduce their tax even further..... hell mend 'em

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I don't think there are teachers in Scotland in this position. England, however, is a horse of an altogether different hue...

The nurses might refer to some of the dodgy agencies you hear about.

[Keith_M]

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I haven't seen the full report, but I would doubt that nurses and teachers (most of whom are public employees) would be involved. If they are, they've been badly advised.

As for IT workers, many of whom will be paid through personal service companies and hence already paying less tax and NI than they would as employees.... If they're trying to reduce their tax even further..... hell mend 'em

I've mentioned this on here before, but anyway.

I work in IT and went to work in Austria for a couple of years, as a Contractor. The Agency I was working with proposed a Contract whereby roughly 70% of my payment would go through standard channels, with all Taxes and Health Insurance paid, while the rest would be an 'Interest Free Loan', to be paid into a Bank Account in Switzerland.

My immediate thought was that it sounded dodgy as hell, and I said no. "Too good to be true", you might say.

Sounds very much like the scheme used to 'pay' the Rangers Employees, which makes me wonder how it never occurred to any of them that it just didn't sound right.

[Newry Hibs]

I was an IT contractor back in 1999. The 'scam'then was to get paid a low wage and then take a company dividend which was taxed at 10% I think. I didn't hear of anyone taking a loan.

[Hibrandenburg]

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I've mentioned this on here before, but anyway.

I work in IT and went to work in Austria for a couple of years, as a Contractor. The Agency I was working with proposed a Contract whereby roughly 70% of my payment would go through standard channels, with all Taxes and Health Insurance paid, while the rest would be an 'Interest Free Loan', to be paid into a Bank Account in Switzerland.

My immediate thought was that it sounded dodgy as hell, and I said no. "Too good to be true", you might say.

Sounds very much like the scheme used to 'pay' the Rangers Employees, which makes me wonder how it never occurred to any of them that it just didn't sound right.

I know a friend of a friend who was working for a UK airline whilst living in the EU. Their taxes were all paid through the UK and deducted on a monthly basis. He used to claim all his taxes back at the end of the year on the basis of non residence. Due to the badly worded double taxation agreement between the UK and his country of residence the tax authorities there couldn't touch him because the agreement basically said that someone paying tax in another EU nation couldn't be taxed again in another. They closed the loophole back in 2009 and tried to get the money taxed retrospectively but that would be like trying to fine someone for doing 30 in a 30 zone before changing it to 20. Luckily my friend's friend kept all the money he'd received in rebates until after the courts decided in his/their favour, a lot of his colleagues who had spent all their money were sweating for a while. Unfortunately his wife made him spend that money on a nice wee house instead of the 12m yacht he'd had his eye on.

[Mcpakeisgod]

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I was an IT contractor back in 1999. The 'scam'then was to get paid a low wage and then take a company dividend which was taxed at 10% I think. I didn't hear of anyone taking a loan.

Heehaw wrong with that !

[jacomo]

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I was an IT contractor back in 1999. The 'scam'then was to get paid a low wage and then take a company dividend which was taxed at 10% I think. I didn't hear of anyone taking a loan.

I think this was a similar arrangement that many NHS agency workers took in the 1990s / early 2000s.

Since tightened up, but rather different to the EBTs. No ‘side letters’ and no pretend loans.

[CropleyWasGod]

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I was an IT contractor back in 1999. The 'scam'then was to get paid a low wage and then take a company dividend which was taxed at 10% I think. I didn't hear of anyone taking a loan.

That's not a scam.

It's quite acceptable to do that, although the tax on dividends has been amended in recent years to bring in more revenue.

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[Newry Hibs]

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That's not a scam.

It's quite acceptable to do that, although the tax on dividends has been amended in recent years to bring in more revenue.

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IR35 came in to say earnings should be treated as an employee as I suspect 99% of people only worked for one company at the same desk. Although I benefited from dividends, it was just a way of avoiding tax.

[CropleyWasGod]

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IR35 came in to say earnings should be treated as an employee as I suspect 99% of people only worked for one company at the same desk. Although I benefited from dividends, it was just a way of avoiding tax.

Ir35 was a way of recouping National Insurance rather than tax.

I say "was" as, although it still exists, it is largely a dead duck. I haven't known of a single contractor who has been challenged on their IR35 status in over 10 years. The recent changes to the taxation of dividends have made it virtually redundant.

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