Generic Sevco / Rangers meltdown thread

[Pescarese]

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Was about to post something similar.

The judge went on at length about DK's claims of "impecuniosity", as that was the basis of his defence.

Any appeal would probably have to provide new evidence of said impecuniosity, or show that the judge was wrong in coming to the conclusion he did, on the basis of the evidence submitted of the alleged impecuniosity.

There. A new word in my predictive text. Filed alongside quantum and concomitant.




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The judge basically says that even in TLK is skint (and he doesn’t agree that he is), that’s irrelevant. He knew what he was doing when he bought the shares, so he has to offer to buy others out at the same price. It’s then for shareholders to decide whether to accept TLK’s offer, and for him to decide how he pays up. I suppose if the shares are worth what he claims (he says much more than the 20p he’s been told to offer), he could sell a few of his own.

[jacomo]

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Unlikely. There is no external debt so a CVA is likely.


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If the directors get bored of propping up the company then external debts might rack up quite quickly.

[ehf]

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The judge basically says that even in TLK is skint (and he doesn’t agree that he is), that’s irrelevant. He knew what he was doing when he bought the shares, so he has to offer to buy others out at the same price. It’s then for shareholders to decide whether to accept TLK’s offer, and for him to decide how he pays up. I suppose if the shares are worth what he claims (he says much more than the 20p he’s been told to offer), he could sell a few of his own.

In the world of corporate finance and M&A transactions, these offers are invariably funded by banks and others lenders; the fact that King can't afford to fund it himself (even if it were true) should be irrelevant.

[gordonced18]

All the mentions of a concert party but no word on the songs they were singing.... We could all hazard a guess though!! ☺

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[Bostonhibby]

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I think the takeover panel made the point that it was Kings share purchase which took them over the 30% and the others had warned him against it. I think it was Letham who dropped him in it as well by providing all the email evidence against him.


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Do you think all of this could have been avoided if Letham had decided to move on earlier?

I'll get my coat.

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[Eyrie]

If King is correct about the current share price being higher than 20p, surely he should offer 20p in the knowledge that there would be very few takers and he'd then be in the clear?

If he drags this out by appealing, then he could well find that the price is lower than 20p and everyone will be queueing up to cash in.

[Marco G]

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If King is correct about the current share price being higher than 20p, surely he should offer 20p in the knowledge that there would be very few takers and he'd then be in the clear?

If he drags this out by appealing, then he could well find that the price is lower than 20p and everyone will be queueing up to cash in.

Think he has to put the 11 million into an account to cover possible uptake, and that is his problem, so his defence was "he is broke".

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[Tornadoes70]

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If King is correct about the current share price being higher than 20p, surely he should offer 20p in the knowledge that there would be very few takers and he'd then be in the clear?

If he drags this out by appealing, then he could well find that the price is lower than 20p and everyone will be queueing up to cash in.

Somehow I've just got this nagging feeling call it intuition if you like that not one penny of the 'children's inheritance' will be spent on setting up and initiating a share offer at 20p each.

He's now the subject of case law precedence in avoiding what was a rightful order from the Takeover Panel. Anyone willing to stretch this far is in my opinion not someone who's interested in following Court Orders.

The Dave King's of this world simply just don't think normal rules apply to them.

GGTTH

[Pescarese]

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Think he has to put the 11 million into an account to cover possible uptake, and that is his problem, so his defence was "he is broke".

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Yep, it costs him serious money to make the offer. And the shares are only traded on a “matched” basis, so there’s a fair chance some “investors” will see an opportunity to get out. Pleasing !

[Pescarese]

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Somehow I've just got this nagging feeling call it intuition if you like that not one penny of the 'children's inheritance' will be spent on setting up and initiating a share offer at 20p each.

He's now the subject of case law precedence in avoiding what was a rightful order from the Takeover Panel. Anyone willing to stretch this far is in my opinion not someone who's interested in following Court Orders.

The Dave King's of this world simply just don't think normal rules apply to them.

GGTTH

My feeling too. Which will give the football authorities one hell of a headache.

[Tornadoes70]

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My feeling too. Which will give the football authorities one hell of a headache.

Absolutely.

I had s certain inclination Lord Bannatyne would find in favor of the panel. Authorities rules are there for a purpose with them taking a dim view of those who purport to circumvent them. The TP acted very rapidly when approaching the COS to enforce its decision against the gasl and he was fortunate the case was held in the Outer House rather than the Inner House that leaves scope for appeal to the Inner House in the first instance.

However if he does appeal I do not think the Lords will be so ready to reserve the costs next time around and they certainly won't allow permission to appeal to the Superior Supreme Court when the Inner House appeal fails if forthcoming. No Counsel with credibility would approach the Supreme Court having failed in the COS especially without being granted permission to appeal.

He's a dead duck in the water so to speak.

Lord Bannatyne was thorough in his Judgement and its extremely doubtful any appeal would succeed.

GGTTH

[Pescarese]

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Absolutely.

I had s certain inclination Lord Bannatyne would find in favor of the panel. Authorities rules are there for a purpose with them taking a dim view of those who purport to circumvent them. The TP acted very rapidly when approaching the COS to enforce its decision against the gasl and he was fortunate the case was held in the Outer House rather than the Inner House that leaves scope for appeal to the Inner House in the first instance.

However if he does appeal I do not think the Lords will be so ready to reserve the costs next time around and they certainly won't allow permission to appeal to the Superior Supreme Court when the Inner House appeal fails if forthcoming. No Counsel with credibility would approach the Supreme Court having failed in the COS especially without being granted permission to appeal.

He's a dead duck in the water so to speak.

Lord Bannatyne was thorough in his Judgement and its extremely doubtful any appeal would succeed.

GGTTH

The Outer House only reserved costs because GASL won one of his two arguments, though not the one that matters. The judge will invite the two parties to say anything further they want before deciding what order to make. I can’t see how King can avoid an order to pay the costs. Appeal looks a waste of more money on his part to me, but maybe delay matters to him. We’ll know soon.

[sadtom]

I wont even pretend to know the implications of much of the recent information.
Can i ask all the contributors who appear to have a much better handle on what is going on to give a laymans summery. ie Could this be the 'headshot' that is required to kill off the Zombie incarnation of derhun?
And what is the chance it could happen in 360 pages (of this thread) time? Be kinda sweet to see it end where it started...so to speak.

[Tornadoes70]

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The Outer House only reserved costs because GASL won one of his two arguments, though not the one that matters. The judge will invite the two parties to say anything further they want before deciding what order to make. I can’t see how King can avoid an order to pay the costs. Appeal looks a waste of more money on his part to me, but maybe delay matters to him. We’ll know soon.

Correct. The main matter was very obviously the TP seeking the court order enforcing its decision. As Counsel's presence were not required for a hearing there was no opportunity to present a motion at the bar seeking costs with the costs instead being reserved. It may well be if the gasl now complies the costs will remain as they are. If any appeal is forthcoming you can be certain when he loses that one all costs will then fall upon the gasl. Costs are always the remit of the Judge and sometimes used as a tool to ensure compliance.

[CropleyWasGod]

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I wont even pretend to know the implications of much of the recent information.
Can i ask all the contributors who appear to have a much better handle on what is going on to give a laymans summery. ie Could this be the 'headshot' that is required to kill off the Zombie incarnation of derhun?
And what is the chance it could happen in 360 pages (of this thread) time? Be kinda sweet to see it end where it started...so to speak.

The extent of the seriousness of the "headshot" depends on the extent of DK's impecuniosity. If he's unable to fund both the share offer (and, as i understand it, he has to put the funds in a separate account before any offer is made) and the short-term loans to RFC, the latter will suffer.

My gut feeling is that, in common with previous behaviour, he and RFC will play French cricket for the time being. DK will put the required loans into RFC, and keep the appeal process going until the fabled Share Issue happens.

[Mr White]

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The extent of the seriousness of the "headshot" depends on the extent of DK's impecuniosity. If he's unable to fund both the share offer (and, as i understand it, he has to put the funds in a separate account before any offer is made) and the short-term loans to RFC, the latter will suffer.

My gut feeling is that, in common with previous behaviour, he and RFC will play French cricket for the time being. DK will put the required loans into RFC, and keep the appeal process going until the fabled Share Issue happens.

Word of the day so far by a mile.
















What does it mean?

[CropleyWasGod]

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Word of the day so far by a mile.
















What does it mean?

The judge in DK's case used it a lot. It means to be boracic lint.

[Hibernia&Alba]

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The judge in DK's case used it a lot. It means to be boracic lint.

Aye, but did the judge use concomitant?

[Bostonhibby]

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Aye, but did the judge use concomitant?

Think he said GASL was a cockwomble, whatever that is, obviously one of those obscure latin phrases that means potless.

[Ozyhibby]

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The extent of the seriousness of the "headshot" depends on the extent of DK's impecuniosity. If he's unable to fund both the share offer (and, as i understand it, he has to put the funds in a separate account before any offer is made) and the short-term loans to RFC, the latter will suffer.

My gut feeling is that, in common with previous behaviour, he and RFC will play French cricket for the time being. DK will put the required loans into RFC, and keep the appeal process going until the fabled Share Issue happens.

I don’t think they can have a share issue until King has offered the current shareholders their 20p.


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[CropleyWasGod]

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I don’t think they can have a share issue until King has offered the current shareholders their 20p.


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What about the conversion of the loans to shares? Are they able to do that?

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[Ozyhibby]

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What about the conversion of the loans to shares? Are they able to do that?

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I would think he would be allowed to do anything that would affect the value of existing shareholders shares. The whole point of these takeover rules is to protect small shareholders. I have no idea of the actual rules though, just trying to think it through logically.


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[Smartie]

Forgetting about all the off-field stuff for a minute, that's a honking result for them today.

If their very existence depends on European football, their biggest problem is surely the fact that their team may struggle to qualify for Europe, let alone qualify for any group stages.

[Jack Hackett]

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Forgetting about all the off-field stuff for a minute, that's a honking result for them today.

If their very existence depends on European football, their biggest problem is surely the fact that their team may struggle to qualify for Europe, let alone qualify for any group stages.

There's no 'may' about it for me. Lucked out against us and been dire since. No money to improve playing staff and a cheap option manager. How these c**** are 3rd is a mystery

[grunt]

King to appeal

https://twitter.com/andynewportpa/st...38898185146368


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[Tornadoes70]

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King to appeal

https://twitter.com/andynewportpa/st...38898185146368


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This is comedy gold.

As I speculated upon earlier this conman doesn't believe the rules apply to him. He has no chance of success and all it demonstrates is that he has zero intent to initiate the share offer no matter if the Supreme Court the highest court in the UK ordered him to.

If it turns out to be true that he intends to appeal the case of course.

Makes for terrific viewing for all of us though.

[Pescarese]

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King to appeal

https://twitter.com/andynewportpa/st...38898185146368


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He can’t seriously expect to win an appeal - even the Rangers’ defence played better today than his defence did. But if he can’t make the offer to buy shares within 30 days he’s in contempt. So he’d appeal to get more time. I wonder where this leaves the debt to shares idea - he can’t want anything that devalues the shares.

[HoboHarry]

I think he is applying for permission to appeal

[pacorosssco]

most likely a delay tactic only to give chance to get money together but shows not a solvent cash cow as he would have them believe. most likely will be trying to secure dosh outside investment

[Tornadoes70]

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most likely a delay tactic only to give chance to get money together but shows not a solvent cash cow as he would have them believe. most likely will be trying to secure dosh outside investment

Don't think this is very likely. Appeals accumulate costs and if this one fails which looks very likely as Lord Bannatyne deliberated for some time and produced a thorough exhaustive Judgement and If he runs an appeal that fails he will be very probably then be landed with the costs of the whole case that will be considerable.

If it is simply a case of seeking more time to comply his Counsel could seek more time from Lord Bannatyne at a hearing.