Generic Sevco / Rangers meltdown thread

[Ozyhibby]

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Tell us how the quality of football would improve given that every player and his dog would leave Scotland even quicker than they already do now? And how would curtailing Celtics ability to compete in Europe help our game nationally?

Set the salary cap at £6m per team per year and who would leave apart from Celtic or Sevco players?


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[HoboHarry]

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Set the salary cap at £6m per team per year and who would leave apart from Celtic or Sevco players?


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Then I have no idea of what you are on about. Pointless exercise and would achieve nothing.

[ancient hibee]

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The ironyl.

The new huns whining of Celtic's dominance.

Just when one thinks they've heard it all a hun comes out with this pile of comedy gold. No fan of Celtic but they have been managed so very well by their board for many a year now.

Did anyone miss the huns when their newco was placed into the lowest tier? I don't think so and on that basis I would suggest the huns do one and disappear to any league out-with Scotland as soon as they like. If there was a poll by fans out-with Celtic and newco of which club was the most hated and wished to disappear i'm quite certain it would be the new huns.

glory glory

glory glory

suppose it depends what you mean by many a year.Celtic were an hour from going bust when Fergus finally engineered the deal to rescue them.

[Ozyhibby]

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Then I have no idea of what you are on about. Pointless exercise and would achieve nothing.

You don't think Celtic only being able to spend £6m on wages per annum might make the league more competitive?


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[WhileTheChief..]

Why £6m??

If I support Hamilton or Ross Co I'd rather there was a cap of £1m.

Anything more than that and i'll never get to see my team win the league. Actually, make it £500k, give us all a chance.

It's no fair.

[Ozyhibby]

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Why £6m??

If I support Hamilton or Ross Co I'd rather there was a cap of £1m.

Anything more than that and i'll never get to see my team win the league. Actually, make it £500k, give us all a chance.

It's no fair.

I just picked the figure out the air. In leagues where this happens it's the subject of negotiation among the clubs.


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[matty_f]

There's a thought that having one 'super' team in the league may be better than having two teams competing at the top.

If and when Celtc pull away from the rest of us it will become very apparent very quickly to The Rangers that they simply cannot compete with them.

There is no point spending millions trying to catch Celtc, so The Rangers' ambitions change. They can still outspend the rest of the league but actually they're not able to attract players that are significantly better, and instead spend over-inflated wages to players who aren't that much better than the rest of the teams, who spend better and get better value.

Celtc, comfortable that they can spend and attract players to play in the Champions League become more capable of competing in the groups and as such help the coefficient, which in turns helps the now more competitive chasing pack reach a little further in the Europa league.

There starts to be more trickle down of cash as a result, the league becomes more attractive to TV companies because the matches are competitive and the upward spiral continues to rejuvenate Scottish football .

And we all live happily ever after.

[WhileTheChief..]

Discussions between clubs? That'll never catch on here!!

I don't see any fault with Celtic on this. It's up to the rest of us to do whatever we can to try and catch them.

We've all rightly been pleased with the rise in our crowds the last couple of years. That allowed us to sign McGinn and Cummings on decent contracts.

If Dumbarton or QoTS suggested a wage cap closer to theirs would we accept it? Nah, we enjoy the advantages of being the bigger club.

More fans means more cash means better players means more fans means......

It's the way it should be.

Rangers are just greetin now cause they can't buy their titles anymore.

[northstandhibby]

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suppose it depends what you mean by many a year.Celtic were an hour from going bust when Fergus finally engineered the deal to rescue them.

I was more referring to the last ten years or so, should have clarified that.

glory glory

[ancient hibee]

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I was more referring to the last ten years or so, should have clarified that.

glory glory

When you get to my age ten years ,ten minutes,they're all the same

[Michael]

Wage caps are a bit difficult to do fairly. Would be interesting if there was a max number of registered players of say 23 with at least 5 being scottish U21 and a max of 5 non Scottish players. In your match squad you have to start at least 3 U21 players.

Something like that would hopefully mean teams have a fair balance, and the player reg limitations would deter OF signing players from other clubs only to never play them.

[Deansy]

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The ironyl.

The new huns whining of Celtic's dominance.

Just when one thinks they've heard it all a hun comes out with this pile of comedy gold. No fan of Celtic but they have been managed so very well by their board for many a year now.

Did anyone miss the huns when their newco was placed into the lowest tier? I don't think so and on that basis I would suggest the huns do one and disappear to any league out-with Scotland as soon as they like. If there was a poll by fans out-with Celtic and newco of which club was the most hated and wished to disappear i'm quite certain it would be the new huns.

glory glory

glory glory

More or less proved in 2012 when all the supporters-polls sent a clear message to their own chairmen exactly what would happen if the SFA/Regan etc got their way of keeping them in the SPL - think the lowest figure against them was 80%.

Both old and new versions of the Hun have proved a constant embarrassment to the game and Scottish Society in general with their 'Stuck-in-the 17th-Century' mindset (with no intention whatsoever of leaving it !) - only natural every decent person wants shot of them.

[HoboHarry]

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There's a thought that having one 'super' team in the league may be better than having two teams competing at the top.

If and when Celtc pull away from the rest of us it will become very apparent very quickly to The Rangers that they simply cannot compete with them.

There is no point spending millions trying to catch Celtc, so The Rangers' ambitions change. They can still outspend the rest of the league but actually they're not able to attract players that are significantly better, and instead spend over-inflated wages to players who aren't that much better than the rest of the teams, who spend better and get better value.

Celtc, comfortable that they can spend and attract players to play in the Champions League become more capable of competing in the groups and as such help the coefficient, which in turns helps the now more competitive chasing pack reach a little further in the Europa league.

There starts to be more trickle down of cash as a result, the league becomes more attractive to TV companies because the matches are competitive and the upward spiral continues to rejuvenate Scottish football .

And we all live happily ever after.

You beat me to it. In response to Ozhibby's suggestion that a wage cap would make the league more competitive, I was going to make the analogy of watching the winner of a a marathon winning by one mile as opposed to a mile and a half.

[ancient hibee]

I've no time for Celtic either with their chasing of the Irish market.

[Hibernia&Alba]

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More or less proved in 2012 when all the supporters-polls sent a clear message to their own chairmen exactly what would happen if the SFA/Regan etc got their way of keeping them in the SPL - think the lowest figure against them was 80%.

Both old and new versions of the Hun have proved a constant embarrassment to the game and Scottish Society in general with their 'Stuck-in-the 17th-Century' mindset (with no intention whatsoever of leaving it !) - only natural every decent person wants shot of them.

Was it Tom English who described them as 'a permanent embarrassment and an occasional disgrace'?

[Ozyhibby]

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Wage caps are a bit difficult to do fairly. Would be interesting if there was a max number of registered players of say 23 with at least 5 being scottish U21 and a max of 5 non Scottish players. In your match squad you have to start at least 3 U21 players.

Something like that would hopefully mean teams have a fair balance, and the player reg limitations would deter OF signing players from other clubs only to never play them.

Here's pretty good explanation of how it works in Australian Rugby League and also why they do it.
https://m.nrl.com/nrlhq/referencecen...4/default.aspx



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[greenginger]

Are Celtic with their £ 18 million half year profit still charging clubs like Partick Thistle, Hamilton Accies and the like a fee to sell the Celtic allocation at the diddy club's home games.

I seem to remember it being introduced a few years ago and we started selling directly to their supporters.

[Deansy]

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Was it Tom English who described them as 'a permanent embarrassment and an occasional disgrace'?

Ian Archer - football-writer. Think he made the statement in an article he'd written ?

[Liberal Hibby]

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Wage caps are a bit difficult to do fairly. Would be interesting if there was a max number of registered players of say 23 with at least 5 being scottish U21 and a max of 5 non Scottish players. In your match squad you have to start at least 3 U21 players.

Something like that would hopefully mean teams have a fair balance, and the player reg limitations would deter OF signing players from other clubs only to never play them.

Agree wage caps are difficult to do fairly which is why I like the idea of tradeable caps. These work by allowing clubs to auction off their unused caps to other teams that need to go over theirs.

So say you set the cap at £8m for the premier, £4m for the championship, £2m for league one and two. Clubs would be free to spend up to the cap and buy and sell unused allocation from other teams. So Celtic need £30m (say) so need to find £22m from the other clubs - they do deals with lower premier sides to buy say £3m each from five of them. They may not pay face value for these additional caps and might agree to buy them at 50% (cash strapped clubs may want to sell for a lower amount, there may be a premium as the transfer window comes to a close). They then do the same across the lower leagues to make up the necessary cap amount.

That way Celtic can still compete at the European level - but instead of making half yearly profits of £18m some of this money gets recycled throughout the game through the clubs who sell their caps to the bigger teams.

[majorhibs]

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Agree wage caps are difficult to do fairly which is why I like the idea of tradeable caps. These work by allowing clubs to auction off their unused caps to other teams that need to go over theirs.

So say you set the cap at £8m for the premier, £4m for the championship, £2m for league one and two. Clubs would be free to spend up to the cap and buy and sell unused allocation from other teams. So Celtic need £30m (say) so need to find £22m from the other clubs - they do deals with lower premier sides to buy say £3m each from five of them. They may not pay face value for these additional caps and might agree to buy them at 50% (cash strapped clubs may want to sell for a lower amount, there may be a premium as the transfer window comes to a close). They then do the same across the lower leagues to make up the necessary cap amount.

That way Celtic can still compete at the European level - but instead of making half yearly profits of £18m some of this money gets recycled throughout the game through the clubs who sell their caps to the bigger teams.

tic are voting for that tho! zombies wouldnae be in either. Got to remember, this 2 are only interested in theirselves. Anything whatsoever outwith gruesome crooked monopolisers they're no goin near!

[Ozyhibby]

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tic are voting for that tho! zombies wouldnae be in either. Got to remember, this 2 are only interested in theirselves. Anything whatsoever outwith gruesome crooked monopolisers they're no goin near!

They are only two clubs though. If the rest of the clubs vote for it it would go through. Without something like this, Celtic will be champions for a very long time.


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[JohnM1875]

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Agree wage caps are difficult to do fairly which is why I like the idea of tradeable caps. These work by allowing clubs to auction off their unused caps to other teams that need to go over theirs.

So say you set the cap at £8m for the premier, £4m for the championship, £2m for league one and two. Clubs would be free to spend up to the cap and buy and sell unused allocation from other teams. So Celtic need £30m (say) so need to find £22m from the other clubs - they do deals with lower premier sides to buy say £3m each from five of them. They may not pay face value for these additional caps and might agree to buy them at 50% (cash strapped clubs may want to sell for a lower amount, there may be a premium as the transfer window comes to a close). They then do the same across the lower leagues to make up the necessary cap amount.

That way Celtic can still compete at the European level - but instead of making half yearly profits of £18m some of this money gets recycled throughout the game through the clubs who sell their caps to the bigger teams.

I know these are all ball park figures but come on?! 4 million for the championship and 2 million for league one and two?!

You could have 2 million for the premiership and not go over it! Complete madness!!

[Liberal Hibby]

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I know these are all ball park figures but come on?! 4 million for the championship and 2 million for league one and two?!

You could have 2 million for the premiership and not go over it! Complete madness!!

They're purely illustrative - if you were going to go down that road you would need to set figures that meant the big boys (and that would include Hibs in the Championship) would need to buy wage caps from smaller teams. Otherwise the money goes upwards not downwards.

[JohnM1875]

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They're purely illustrative - if you were going to go down that road you would need to set figures that meant the big boys (and that would include Hibs in the Championship) would need to buy wage caps from smaller teams. Otherwise the money goes upwards not downwards.

I'd love it, or something similar, coming into effect sooner rather than later and I agree the Scottish games needs something to make it competitive/interesting but I just don't see it happening.

The SFA hardly strike me as trendsetters. And almost every major league in Europe is the same with a few teams dominating the leagues and the lesser teams fighting it out for the cups/lower european places.

[Hibrandenburg]

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You don't think Celtic only being able to spend £6m on wages per annum might make the league more competitive?


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It would increase competition within Scotland but destroy quality and every other league in Europe would leave us in the dark ages.

[Ryan69]

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It would increase competition within Scotland but destroy quality and every other league in Europe would leave us in the dark ages.

You would think that eventually certain leagues are going togo pop anyway.
As people start to get bored.

As much as the media love to push EPL....Most games are pretty boring.

Would mean we have a step ahead of the pack.

[Ozyhibby]

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You would think that eventually certain leagues are going togo pop anyway.
As people start to get bored.

As much as the media love to push EPL....Most games are pretty boring.

Would mean we have a step ahead of the pack.

And people can watch every game for free now so the tv money may not be there forever.


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[CropleyWasGod]

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It would increase competition within Scotland but destroy quality and every other league in Europe would leave us in the dark ages.

...which begs the question....

Do we...as Hibs supporters...want to be competitive in a poor league? Or nowhere in a league, of whom 1 or 2 teams do moderately well in Europe?

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[Ozyhibby]

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...which begs the question....

Do we...as Hibs supporters...want to be competitive in a poor league? Or nowhere in a league, of whom 1 or 2 teams do moderately well in Europe?

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We are not sure. The same people who would argue against a salary cap will be seen saying 'as soon as the old firm bugger off to England the better'. It's a debate that's never really been done properly.
To me it makes perfect sense because I have seen how well it works in Australia but I realise I'm in the minority and most don't believe it can work here.


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[CropleyWasGod]

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We are not sure. The same people who would argue against a salary cap will be seen saying 'as soon as the old firm bugger off to England the better'. It's a debate that's never really been done properly.
To me it makes perfect sense because I have seen how well it works in Australia but I realise I'm in the minority and most don't believe it can work here.


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I'm warming to the idea, but would there not be a legal issue here? Restraint of trade, for example?

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