Generic Sevco / Rangers meltdown thread

[s.a.m]

Chris Musson ‏@camusson 47s48 seconds ago Ruling: Rangers' Murray era trust payments scheme was “a mere redirection of emoluments or earnings” and therefore "subject to income tax”

[Ozyhibby]

HMRC wins big tax case


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[Ozyhibby]

“Furthermore, so far as the footballers are concerned, at least, it seems to us that if bonuses had not been paid they might well have taken their services elsewhere. We realise that the fifth respondent [RFC 2012] was in, potentially, a difficult financial position, competing for good players in an international market where other countries may not have the same rigorous approach to taxation as the United Kingdom. Nevertheless, the law is clear: the payments made in respect of footballers were in our view derived from their employment and thus the payments were emoluments or earnings.”

Important paragraph from judgement. They cheated to get better players.


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[Kato]

HMRC win appeal, link to statement ...


http://www.scotland-judiciary.org.uk...ngs-and-others

This part.

“It seems to us to be self-evident that the obligations in the side-letter were part of the employee’s employment package, and provided him with additional remuneration. They were negotiated as part of the total employment package…Once it is accepted that the bonus payments represented consideration for a footballer’s services qua employee, it inevitably follows that those payments represented emoluments or earnings of the footballer in question.

“Furthermore, so far as the footballers are concerned, at least, it seems to us that if bonuses had not been paid they might well have taken their services elsewhere. We realise that the fifth respondent [RFC 2012] was in, potentially, a difficult financial position, competing for good players in an international market where other countries may not have the same rigorous approach to taxation as the United Kingdom. Nevertheless, the law is clear: the payments made in respect of footballers were in our view derived from their employment and thus the payments were emoluments or earnings.”

...shows Rangers cheated. Something the SFA has denied but was and is clearly against the rules then and now.

[easty]

So...what does this mean then? Whats this going to cost them?

Can they just appeal it?

[Ozyhibby]

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So...what does this mean then? Whats this going to cost them?

Can they just appeal it?

Nothing to the new club but makes a mockery of the Lord nimmo smith hearings.
There is nobody left to appeal.


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[easty]

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Nothing to the new club but makes a mockery of the Lord nimmo smith hearings.
There is nobody left to appeal.


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All seems a bit pointless if it's not going to cost the newco anything.

[Liberal Hibby]

Shouldn't Oldco now be stripped of the trophies and titles won while using EBTs?

[John_the_angus_hibby]

It may not have a fiscal impact on Sevco. But it's now official. Their club history is one of cheated titles. That they can never run from. Odious club indeed.


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[HibeeMassive]

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So...what does this mean then? Whats this going to cost them?

Can they just appeal it?

Won't mean anything to The Rangers, but it does provide evidence that OldCo did in fact cheat.

Also clears the way for HMRC to pursue other football clubs who have used the same/similar practises in the past. Think there will be a few clubs with squeeky bums this morning...

[Glesgahibby]

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HMRC win appeal, link to statement ...


http://www.scotland-judiciary.org.uk...ngs-and-others

This part.

“It seems to us to be self-evident that the obligations in the side-letter were part of the employee’s employment package, and provided him with additional remuneration. They were negotiated as part of the total employment package…Once it is accepted that the bonus payments represented consideration for a footballer’s services qua employee, it inevitably follows that those payments represented emoluments or earnings of the footballer in question.

“Furthermore, so far as the footballers are concerned, at least, it seems to us that if bonuses had not been paid they might well have taken their services elsewhere. We realise that the fifth respondent [RFC 2012] was in, potentially, a difficult financial position, competing for good players in an international market where other countries may not have the same rigorous approach to taxation as the United Kingdom. Nevertheless, the law is clear: the payments made in respect of footballers were in our view derived from their employment and thus the payments were emoluments or earnings.”

...shows Rangers cheated. Something the SFA has denied but was and is clearly against the rules then and now.

This proves players earnings registered with sfa where false!!
I wonder if any editor/reporter has the balls to confront the sfa with this.

[Kato]

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Shouldn't Oldco now be stripped of the trophies and titles won while using EBTs?

In a word, yes.

[Kato]

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I wonder if any editor/reporter has the balls to confront the sfa with this.

Not a chance of any Scottish journo saying a dicky-bird.

[magpie1892]

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Anything on the jungle drums about whether they are close?

I'd love to be wrong but they're not close.

[Ozyhibby]

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Shouldn't Oldco now be stripped of the trophies and titles won while using EBTs?

Absolutely, yes they should. It's up to the fans to apply the pressure on the SFA for a further investigation.


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[CallumLaidlaw]

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Absolutely, yes they should. It's up to the fans to apply the pressure on the SFA for a further investigation.


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And you can be guaranteed there will be plenty Celtic fans doing that right now.

[Weststandwanab]

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All seems a bit pointless if it's not going to cost the newco anything.

It is not pointless for H.M.R.C. as they will set a precedent to pursue clubs Daan Sauff.

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Shouldn't Oldco now be stripped of the trophies and titles won while using EBTs?

Yes, without doubt will it happen no chance.

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Not a chance of any Scottish journo saying a dicky-bird.

Indeed but maybe Mark Daly would give it a go - failing that Alex Tommo will

[Mcpakeisgod]

It only says they have won the Appeal to actually take it back to court, not actually won the verdict

[Ozyhibby]

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It is not pointless for H.M.R.C. as they will set a precedent to pursue clubs Daan Sauff.



Yes, without doubt will it happen no chance.



Indeed but maybe Mark Daly would give it a go - failing that Alex Tommo will

Matt Slater at the BBC also pushing SFA for comment.


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[Kato]

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It is not pointless for H.M.R.C. as they will set a precedent to pursue clubs Daan Sauff.

Wasn't there already a precedent set with Arsenal?

http://www.theguardian.com/football/...wsstory.sport9


This was conveniently ignored when it came to Rangers, up until today.

[Ozyhibby]

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It only says they have won the Appeal to actually take it back to court, not actually won the verdict

No it doesn't. They have won the case.


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[Libby Hibby]

They cheated, they knew back then they were cheating, we knew they were cheating, the SFA knew there were cheating due to Campbell Ogilvie's direct employment with both at the same time...this just merely confirms it

[Kato]

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- failing that Alex Tommo will

As expected....

‏@alextomo 23m23 minutes ago
So Rangers are found to have won a series of titles whilst comprehensively cheating the tax man.

[Billy Whizz]

Will the players have to pay anything back, or was the liability against the company?
Remind me how much tax they avoided?

[CallumLaidlaw]

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Will the players have to pay anything back, or was the liability against the company?
Remind me how much tax they avoided?

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/f...secret-1736859

[Ozyhibby]

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Will the players have to pay anything back, or was the liability against the company?
Remind me how much tax they avoided?

About £60m roughly.
Depends if HMRC want to Perdue them. They would need to prove they were part of the conspiracy. Players have the side letter to protect them.


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[Kato]

@glasgowsgreenw 2m2 minutes ago
Scottish Cup Winners 2008/09

Rangers 0 - 3 Falkirk

[AndyM_1875]

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About £60m roughly.
Depends if HMRC want to Perdue them. They would need to prove they were part of the conspiracy. Players have the side letter to protect them.


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Do you think there is the appetite for that?
This is a precedent, nothing more. Bar dipping their beaks into the Oldco Creditors Pot, HMRC are now finished with Rangers.

This legal ruling will be used to bash much bigger fish over the head with backdated tax demands though as always HMRC will run shy of taking on the real monsters like Vodafone who seem to sort their tax avoidance out by taking the Chancellor of the Exchequer for lunch.

[Just Alf]

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Won't mean anything to The Rangers, but it does provide evidence that OldCo did in fact cheat.

Also clears the way for HMRC to pursue other football clubs who have used the same/similar practises in the past. Think there will be a few clubs with squeeky bums this morning...

Were the Yams not involved in similar? ..... And as they avoided Liquidation is there a chance they may be liable to some degree?

[AndyM_1875]

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Were the Yams not involved in similar? ..... And as they avoided Liquidation is there a chance they may be liable to some degree?

Their CVA wiped that tax debt.