Generic Sevco / Rangers meltdown thread

[lapsedhibee]

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Of course she's changed her tune - at the time she was still relatively 'fresh' in football, naive even. She probably did intend to be the 'new broom that sweeps through the game' right up until the point where (one of her own crew probably ??) pointed out that if Rangers were to be punished for cheating then her own club would undoubtedly be next as a stripped-Hun would definitely embark on the biggest exercise of 'Whitabootery' ever seen !

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Quite.

Jambos will be no allies in this.

Disagree. There's no tradition of being kicked out of competitions for stealing from poppy charities, whereas there is a tradition of being kicked out for faulty player registration issues. Although stealing from charities is more reprehensible, the whitabootery argument against the yams is very weak as there's no proof, or at least no proof that we know of, that the yams were guilty of faulty player registration. It's the player registration issues (side letters) that should be the undoing of the Old Thes, not the tax issues. The player registration rules were deliberately circumvented. Punish that rule breaking, just as other clubs have traditionally been punished, but proportionately (ie not a slap on the wrist - they didn't do it for one match, they did it for at least ten years).

[Ozyhibby]

I think this will now go to judicial review. It's going to take a lot of money and will cost the SFA and SPFL plenty as well, especially if the fans win as costs are usually awarded.
It was all avoidable as well.


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[JeMeSouviens]

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I think this will now go to judicial review. It's going to take a lot of money and will cost the SFA and SPFL plenty as well, especially if the fans win as costs are usually awarded.
It was all avoidable as well.


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If it does, I will be chucking my donation in when they put the hat round.

[MrSmith]

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If it does, I will be chucking my donation in when they put the hat round.

Yup me too.

[Ozyhibby]

Jim Duffy on Clydefm last night said that the judicial review was a bad idea because it could open a whole can of worms about what other clubs were up to at the time.
Let's hope so, Jim, let's hope so.


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[stantonhibby]

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Jim Duffy on Clydefm last night said that the judicial review was a bad idea because it could open a whole can of worms about what other clubs were up to at the time.
Let's hope so, Jim, let's hope so.


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He was DoF or something at Hearts for 10 mins or so wasnt he?

[GreenLake]

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Of course she's changed her tune - at the time she was still relatively 'fresh' in football, naive even. She probably did intend to be the 'new broom that sweeps through the game' right up until the point where (one of her own crew probably ??) pointed out that if Rangers were to be punished for cheating then her own club would undoubtedly be next as a stripped-Hun would definitely embark on the biggest exercise of 'Whitabootery' ever seen !

You nailed it.

[High-On-Hibs]

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If it does, I will be chucking my donation in when they put the hat round.

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Yup me too.

Thirded

[StevieC]

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Of course she's changed her tune - at the time she was still relatively 'fresh' in football, naive even. She probably did intend to be the 'new broom that sweeps through the game' right up until the point where (one of her own crew probably ??) pointed out that if Rangers were to be punished for cheating then her own club would undoubtedly be next as a stripped-Hun would definitely embark on the biggest exercise of 'Whitabootery' ever seen !

I don't see how Hearts could get dragged into this mess. Yes they paid out more than they could afford, and used Bosnian pensions to fund it, but the player registrations and declarations of earnings look to have been correct at the time. It is the EBT, and more importantly the "side letters", that is the issue (and what the supreme court was ruling on). By not declaring the EBT, now declared to have been additional earnings, they had not registered players correctly.

There is off course the argument that sporting advantage was gained, but this may prove tricky to prove legally (as per LNS report) and that argument could, potentially, go either way.

[ancient hibee]

I wonder what good any judicial review would do.If it was to examine the actions of the SPL this is an organisation that no longer exists.If it's the SFA they will point to their rule book.The only thing that might come up is whether the rule books were adequate.The one thing that certainly wouldn't be examined is the actions of any particular club.

[Kato]

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I don't see how Hearts could get dragged into this mess. Yes they paid out more than they could afford, and used Bosnian pensions to fund it, but the player registrations and declarations of earnings look to have been correct at the time. It is the EBT, and more importantly the "side letters", that is the issue (and what the supreme court was ruling on). By not declaring the EBT, now declared to have been additional earnings, they had not registered players correctly.

There is off course the argument that sporting advantage was gained, but this may prove tricky to prove legally (as per LNS report) and that argument could, potentially, go either way.

Vlad did have his own tax-evasion scheme, signing players for Kaunas, registering them in Lithuania then loaning them to Hearts but paying their tax (if he ever even paid it) in Lithuania. When HMRC came after the money he shut up shop and within 6 months they were in admin. The tax was never paid and was included in their debtors list. Dunno how illegal that was but HMRC found it to be so as did the courts after a few hearings.

More worrying for them is if Romanov is allowed to be tried in the Lithuanian courts in his absence. If found guilty then Hearts would be guilty of being funded from the proceeds of criminal activity and, iirc, all results during Vlads tenure would be overturned to 0-3 results. The Lithuanian Govt are attempting to change their law at moment to allow trials in the accused absence.

[JeMeSouviens]

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I wonder what good any judicial review would do.If it was to examine the actions of the SPL this is an organisation that no longer exists.If it's the SFA they will point to their rule book.The only thing that might come up is whether the rule books were adequate.The one thing that certainly wouldn't be examined is the actions of any particular club.

The SPFL is the SPL with a name change.

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/SC175364

[ancient hibee]

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The SPFL is the SPL with a name change.

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/SC175364

No it's not.The SPFL is an amalgamation of the SPL and the Scottish Football League.It is a different organisation.

[JeMeSouviens]

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No it's not.The SPFL is an amalgamation of the SPL and the Scottish Football League.It is a different organisation.

Look at the link, "previous company name". The SFL clubs were effectively absorbed into the SPL structure.

[CropleyWasGod]

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Vlad did have his own tax-evasion scheme, signing players for Kaunas, registering them in Lithuania then loaning them to Hearts but paying their tax (if he ever even paid it) in Lithuania. When HMRC came after the money he shut up shop and within 6 months they were in admin. The tax was never paid and was included in their debtors list. Dunno how illegal that was but HMRC found it to be so as did the courts after a few hearings.

More worrying for them is if Romanov is allowed to be tried in the Lithuanian courts in his absence. If found guilty then Hearts would be guilty of being funded from the proceeds of criminal activity and, iirc, all results during Vlads tenure would be overturned to 0-3 results. The Lithuanian Govt are attempting to change their law at moment to allow trials in the accused absence.

Hearts' tax situation didn't go as far as the Courts. The assessment on them for the Kaunas situation was settled by negotiation (without going to a tribunal) and, according this, no penalties were payable:-

https://www.theguardian.com/football...ute-resolution

As far as we know, they have done nothing illegal. They are "only" guilty of financial stupidity and not paying creditors. It's not a big leap from there to the situation of clubs who spent much more than they could afford, and got into huge debt (us, for example).

That said, that would be irrelevant in the mind of the besieged Hun. The "whitaboutery" defence would be in full cry, and many clubs would have to spend unwelcome amounts of management-time, and possibly money, just to stave that nonsense off.

[Ozyhibby]

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Hearts' tax situation didn't go as far as the Courts. The assessment on them for the Kaunas situation was settled by negotiation (without going to a tribunal) and, according this, no penalties were payable:-

https://www.theguardian.com/football...ute-resolution

As far as we know, they have done nothing illegal. They are "only" guilty of financial stupidity and not paying creditors. It's not a big leap from there to the situation of clubs who spent much more than they could afford, and got into huge debt (us, for example).

That said, that would be irrelevant in the mind of the besieged Hun. The "whitaboutery" defence would be in full cry, and many clubs would have to spend unwelcome amounts of management-time, and possibly money, just to stave that nonsense off.

And I doubt Hibs would have anything to worry about. If Hearts have to spend a lot of time accounting for themselves, then all good as far as I'm concerned.


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[CropleyWasGod]

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And I doubt Hibs would have anything to worry about. If Hearts have to spend a lot of time accounting for themselves, then all good as far as I'm concerned.


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We have enough heat from some of our own about the debt, without worrying about anybody else.

[greenginger]

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Hearts' tax situation didn't go as far as the Courts. The assessment on them for the Kaunas situation was settled by negotiation (without going to a tribunal) and, according this, no penalties were payable:-

https://www.theguardian.com/football...ute-resolution

As far as we know, they have done nothing illegal. They are "only" guilty of financial stupidity and not paying creditors. It's not a big leap from there to the situation of clubs who spent much more than they could afford, and got into huge debt (us, for example).

That said, that would be irrelevant in the mind of the besieged Hun. The "whitaboutery" defence would be in full cry, and many clubs would have to spend unwelcome amounts of management-time, and possibly money, just to stave that nonsense off.

How about Vlads special deal to get Skacel to resign in 2011, after he had set a wages ceiling at Hearts. Rudi met Vlad and came back with his own deal.

Later on when Rudi's agent sued him for commission he thought he was due, it was revealed in court Skacel wage on his SFA registered contract was £ 3000/week , one of the lowest at Tynecastle at the time.

The agent was looking for commission on a salary twice that of Skacel's registered salary.

I'd say that one was a slam-dunk if investigated properly.

[Ozyhibby]

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How about Vlads special deal to get Skacel to resign in 2011, after he had set a wages ceiling at Hearts. Rudi met Vlad and came back with his own deal.

Later on when Rudi's agent sued him for commission he thought he was due, it was revealed in court Skacel wage on his SFA registered contract was £ 3000/week , one of the lowest at Tynecastle at the time.

The agent was looking for commission on a salary twice that of Skacel's registered salary.

I'd say that one was a slam-dunk if investigated properly.

That's the sort of stuff I expect to be leaked by the SFA to help their Ibrox friends.


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[greenginger]

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That's the sort of stuff I expect to be leaked by the SFA to help their Ibrox friends.


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No no need to go public, a quiet word in the Budge woman's ear got her to toe the line.

Now if only these UBIG files would turn up in Lithuania

[greenginger]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2016/05/11/dundee-united-docked-three-points-for-fielding-two-ineligible-pl/http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2016/05/11/dundee-united-docked-three-points-for-fielding-two-ineligible-pl/

Bit of a difference to the SPL treatment of Dundee Utd when they fielded a couple of ineligible players in a no count end of season game, and Rangers decade of fielding ineligible players.

You can guess who got the points deducted.

[lord bunberry]

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Jim Duffy on Clydefm last night said that the judicial review was a bad idea because it could open a whole can of worms about what other clubs were up to at the time.
Let's hope so, Jim, let's hope so.


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Jim Duffy is a tit. Why would exposing other clubs who were cheating be a bad idea.
Some clubs gained massively by spending money they didn't have. If they broke the rules whilst doing so then they should be punished for it.

[Kaiser1962]

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No no need to go public, a quiet word in the Budge woman's ear got her to toe the line.

Now if only these UBIG files would turn up in Lithuania

Or the pesky Russkies extradite Vlad.........

[Ozyhibby]

https://thecelticblog.com/2017/07/bl...ped-him-do-it/


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[greenpaper55]

Rod defending Scottish football, here at his best giving a non answer as usual, if you asked Rod the time of day he would answer "it depends on where you are "

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/40710728

[jacomo]

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https://thecelticblog.com/2017/07/bl...ped-him-do-it/


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Well I've lost count of the number of Celtc blogs that drone on about their own foresight and superiority instead of getting to the ****ing point.

[jacomo]

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Rod defending Scottish football, here at his best giving a non answer as usual, if you asked Rod the time of day he would answer "it depends on where you are "

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/40710728

This is from before the spfl statement.

I had hoped Rod was just being non-committal so as not to pre-empt it.

[DCI Gene Hunt]

Jeez, some of these Thellick blogs are tedious in the extreme. Zzzzzzz. What a waste of bandwidth and time. Paragraphs upon paragraphs of waffle that can be summed up by many of our posters in one sentence...

[majorhibs]

Rangers cheated paying players plenty because they were not paying U.K. tax but paying the players direct. Evidence aplenty! That is why these better players signed for the huns. So they were cheating against their competitors, who were not. Competitors fans, who paid money to watch their teams in the "Scottish leagues" but did not know this throughput 10+ years, are now aggrieved & want honours awarded to cheats, like in all other sports, removed. What is difficult here?

[Andy74]

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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2016/05/11/dundee-united-docked-three-points-for-fielding-two-ineligible-pl/http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2016/05/11/dundee-united-docked-three-points-for-fielding-two-ineligible-pl/

Bit of a difference to the SPL treatment of Dundee Utd when they fielded a couple of ineligible players in a no count end of season game, and Rangers decade of fielding ineligible players.

You can guess who got the points deducted.

Yes but from what I can gather from all this is that the rules in place then just didn't cover this stuff and they had no power to do anything else. This was confirmed by judicial review.

It's not a great position but it is the only position there is and so whilst things have hopefully changed since and there can be a review of whether the current rules are now correct or not there's little more can be done about the Rangers issue.