Generic Sevco / Rangers meltdown thread

[CropleyWasGod]

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I'm not sure of the timescale but it reads as if he was a director of both Wavetower and RFC when the deal was done. Need some digging to be done, methinks


Edit, not much digging



https://rangerstaxcase.wordpress.com...ssive-secrecy/

Okay, so he was a director. Fair enough.

I'm having a slow day, though. Why would they lend them the money? And did they ever get it back?

And, more importantly, did BDO know about it?

[Moulin Yarns]

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Okay, so he was a director. Fair enough.

I'm having a slow day, though. Why would they lend them the money? And did they ever get it back?

And, more importantly, did BDO know about it?

Maybe Donald Findlay will dig a bit deeper

[s.a.m]

(Sorry if this question was answered about a thousand pages ago, but....) is there an issue with David Grier's different roles during the whole process (pre and post admin)?

[CropleyWasGod]

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(Sorry if this question was answered about a thousand pages ago, but....) is there an issue with David Grier's different roles during the whole process (pre and post admin)?

He's going to be a star witness, I'm sure.

IIRC, he was charged originally....possibly flipped, so he knows a lot of "stuff".

I'm sure that, if there is an issue like you say, DF won't miss him.

[s.a.m]

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He's going to be a star witness, I'm sure.

IIRC, he was charged originally....possibly flipped, so he knows a lot of "stuff".

I'm sure that, if there is an issue like you say, DF won't miss him.

[Brunswickbill]

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Okay, so he was a director. Fair enough.

I'm having a slow day, though. Why would they lend them the money? And did they ever get it back?

And, more importantly, did BDO know about it?

Bryan's evidence yesterday post#37210

Bryan agrees that the Ticketus deal wouldhave a "major financial impact on Rangers" and needed board approval

Bryan says Ticketus paid season ticket money to Rangers,who lent it to Wavetower, who paid the bank debt

Bryan confirms paying the bank debt toLloyds was a condition of providing the funds to Whyte.

Bryan says total deal was £24m £18m to payLloyds, £2m 'free cash to the club" rest VAT

[CropleyWasGod]

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Bryan's evidence yesterday post#37210

Bryan agrees that the Ticketus deal wouldhave a "major financial impact on Rangers" and needed board approval

Bryan says Ticketus paid season ticket money to Rangers,who lent it to Wavetower, who paid the bank debt

Bryan confirms paying the bank debt toLloyds was a condition of providing the funds to Whyte.

Bryan says total deal was £24m £18m to payLloyds, £2m 'free cash to the club" rest VAT

Gotcha.... ta

It's not a new thing, then, just clarification of how the scam actually went down.

[Treadstone]

Time for Brian Kennedy to make one of his publicity seeking appearances.

Or as a netter once put it "he's one of those people who confess to murders they didn't commit. "

[lord bunberry]

A lot of this stuff goes over my head, but can someone explain something to me. David Murray said he didn't know about the ticketus deal, but a member of the rangers board was working with Whyte putting his bid together.
I find it hard to believe that Murray didn't know about it.

[HoboHarry]

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A lot of this stuff goes over my head, but can someone explain something to me. David Murray said he didn't know about the ticketus deal, but a member of the rangers board was working with Whyte putting his bid together.
I find it hard to believe that Murray didn't know about it.

Indeed.

[Keith_M]

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Indeed.

I'm sure he 'has no recollections of that event', or some other not-quite-a-denial

[CropleyWasGod]

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A lot of this stuff goes over my head, but can someone explain something to me. David Murray said he didn't know about the ticketus deal, but a member of the rangers board was working with Whyte putting his bid together.
I find it hard to believe that Murray didn't know about it.

Pretty sure that Betts wasn't a director of RFC when the deal was being worked on.

BUT....the Donald will clarify, I'm sure 🙄

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[grunt]

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Pretty sure that Betts wasn't a director of RFC when the deal was being worked on.

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Betts shown 9 May agreement for Rangers tolend Wavetower £16m. Witness says he signed for Rangers as a director

Betts says he has no memory of the documentbut agrees he signed it. Was also a director of Wavetower

Seems clear from this that he was an RFC director at the time? He signed the loan agreement on behalf of RFC?

[ancient hibee]

So Rangers were going to run the business for three seasons on approx half their normal gate takings.

[Seveno]

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Seems clear from this that he was an RFC director at the time? He signed the loan agreement on behalf of RFC?

Is this not the basis of the Crwown case. That Whyte and friends did the deal with Ticketus on behalf of Rangers before they actually owned the Club. The money was then loaned to Wavetower to buy Rangers.

This was probably in breach of the Companies Act but not necessarily fraud if the Vendors knew about it? The latter part being what Findlay seems to be making a good go of proving.

[ancient hibee]

If the Crown dropped charges for some of these witnesses to give evidence they didn't write their scripts very well.

[Prof. Shaggy]

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Seems clear from this that he was an RFC director at the time? He signed the loan agreement on behalf of RFC?

Betts was appointed to the RFC board by Whyte.
I guess that's after the coin was flipped over the table.

[greenginger]

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This morning in the Big Brother House




Proceedings resumed with defence counselDonald Findlay QC continuing his cross-examination of Crown witness Ross Bryan



Bryan told the court yesterday that in 2010he was an investment manager at Ticketus


Bryan confirms that it was Ticketus whowanted "third party funding" mentioned in the agreement between Whyteand Murray group



Witness says Ticketus wanted "the clubto perform" so it continued to sell season tickets



Findlay notes normal process with 3rd partyfunding is to put money in an "escrow" account until deal iscompleted. Bryan agrees



Findlay "It's not going to be someonehanding over £20m in a suitcase?" Bryan "No"

Findlay before Whyte did you know AndrewEllis and Chris Akers were interested in buying Rangers? Bryan "Yes"


Findlay "Did a member of theInvestment committee make inquiries about Akers and Ellis? "He said hewould speak to contacts in Scotland"

Findlay "Do you remember telephonecall from William Murdoch about people buying Rangers?"

Findlay "It would seem a littledifficult to square a high degree of confidentiality with a conversation on agolf course"


Bryan​ asked if he knows a Paul Hassal?"Yes" Do you remember email exchange? Yes"

Bryan says Hassal "Made an inquiryabout doing a deal with Ticketus?" Did he know about the Craig Whyte dealwith Rangers? Bryan "Yes"

Findlay Two people outside the deal knewabout it? Bryan "Unfortunately, yes"


Bryan "I got cold called once bysomeone who knew about the deal with Rangers and asked if interested in anotherScottish club"

Findlay uses a hypothetical company"Micky Mouse ltd" to suggest Wavetower guarantee was"worthless" as it had no assets

Findlay to witness "Do try and helpme, I know it's all very tedious"


Findlay "orginally Murray wanted £5mfor shares, eventually given away for nothing" Bryan "This coincidedwith discussion of the tax case

Findlay asks about tax cases "when didTicketus get wind of them?" Bryan: Didn't come up in due diligence, foundout in April/May

Bryan "Normally you would expect thesethings to be disclosed, should have been​ in initial data room."


Court shown email, 5 April 2011, fromwitness to Phil Betts, David Grier and others titled "Tax case hurdleinfo"


Bryan confirms Grier was assisting Whytewith the tax cases . His company later became Duff and Phelps, administratorsof Rangers

Findlay 'If Grier said later he didn't knowabout Ticketus that would be an absolute lie?" Bryan "Would be hardto believe"




Fin

The Ticketus guy says he got a cold call from someone who knew about the Rangers deal and asked if interested in another Scottish Club.

Liths getting a lead from Campbell Ogilvie when he was at the PBS, perhaps ?

[CropleyWasGod]

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Seems clear from this that he was an RFC director at the time? He signed the loan agreement on behalf of RFC?

Not before CW took over, though, which is what I meant.

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[grunt]

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Not before CW took over, though, which is what I meant.

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Oh. Sorry.

[Deansy]

There's an awful lot of 'I don't remember' statements coming from an awful lot of witnesses in this case

Btw - if this jury is genuinely selected from 'Joe Public' I'd think there's a fair chance of both Whyte and Murray being declared 'A pair of shyster xxxxxxxxs' !!

[CropleyWasGod]

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Oh. Sorry.

S'cool. This **** has more characters and subplots and twists than a John le Carré novel.....and is actually better fun than the one I'm reading just now.

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[Moulin Yarns]

At last, confirmation of yesterday's thoughts


The trial continues

Proceedings resume to hear further evidencefrom asset finance manager Phil Betts.

Court shown an email from Craig Whyteasking Merchant Turnaround to transfer £1m to Colloyer Bristow

Betts says he was happy to transfer themoney as Collyer Bristow only held it on a "conditional basis."

Betts asked about a document showing a £16mloan from Rangers to Wavetower. Says he has never seen it.

Betts agrees that when this happened (9 May 2011) he wasa director of both Rangers and Wavetower.

AD "As a director of Rangers you approved a £16mloan to Wavetower, of which you were also a director?" Betts"According to that document"

Betts "I don't remember signing theloan agreement, but it is my signature" AD "Do you sign documentswithout reading them?"

AD "Do you recall who asked you tosign this document?" Betts "I don't remember signing it."

AD "Did Wavetower have anyassets?" Betts "No"

AD "It was club money that was beingused to pay off the Lloyds debt?" Betts "Wavetower were the owners ofRangers Football Club"

AD "Do you see it as an issue that aclub asset is being used to pay off the debt?" Betts "The bank hadcontrol of those assets anyway"

AD "Wavetower had no funds" Betts"The completion price was only a pound."

Betts says deal was £27m in total, majorityTicketus money, £1m from Merchant £4.5m from Whyte.

Betts says he first heard about Jeromepension fund in July 2011 when he saw Aidan Earley in the directors box atIbrox

AD As a director of Wavetower did you havesight of the funds to be used? Betts "No"

Betts on Jerome pension fund "I spoketo Gary Withey about it but can't recall the conversation"

Betts says money was to be provided forplayers, the stadium and the tax bill "If HMRC gave us time to pay the taxbill"

AD "Was there a desire to keep theinvolvement of Ticketus confidential?" Betts says Ticketus did not wantMurray group to know

Adds "They were concerned the MurrayGroup would approach them for the funds and they would say no."

AD suggests cash-flow projection given toMurray was misleading as didn't mention Ticketus




Break

[CropleyWasGod]

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At last, confirmation of yesterday's thoughts


The trial continues

Proceedings resume to hear further evidencefrom asset finance manager Phil Betts.

Court shown an email from Craig Whyteasking Merchant Turnaround to transfer £1m to Colloyer Bristow

Betts says he was happy to transfer themoney as Collyer Bristow only held it on a "conditional basis."

Betts asked about a document showing a £16mloan from Rangers to Wavetower. Says he has never seen it.

Betts agrees that when this happened (9 May 2011) he wasa director of both Rangers and Wavetower.

AD "As a director of Rangers you approved a £16mloan to Wavetower, of which you were also a director?" Betts"According to that document"

Betts "I don't remember signing theloan agreement, but it is my signature" AD "Do you sign documentswithout reading them?"

AD "Do you recall who asked you tosign this document?" Betts "I don't remember signing it."

AD "Did Wavetower have anyassets?" Betts "No"

AD "It was club money that was beingused to pay off the Lloyds debt?" Betts "Wavetower were the owners ofRangers Football Club"

AD "Do you see it as an issue that aclub asset is being used to pay off the debt?" Betts "The bank hadcontrol of those assets anyway"

AD "Wavetower had no funds" Betts"The completion price was only a pound."

Betts says deal was £27m in total, majorityTicketus money, £1m from Merchant £4.5m from Whyte.

Betts says he first heard about Jeromepension fund in July 2011 when he saw Aidan Earley in the directors box atIbrox

AD As a director of Wavetower did you havesight of the funds to be used? Betts "No"

Betts on Jerome pension fund "I spoketo Gary Withey about it but can't recall the conversation"

Betts says money was to be provided forplayers, the stadium and the tax bill "If HMRC gave us time to pay the taxbill"

AD "Was there a desire to keep theinvolvement of Ticketus confidential?" Betts says Ticketus did not wantMurray group to know

Adds "They were concerned the MurrayGroup would approach them for the funds and they would say no."

AD suggests cash-flow projection given toMurray was misleading as didn't mention Ticketus




Break

I'm wondering if this guy should also have been in the dock 🙄

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[Moulin Yarns]

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I'm wondering if this guy should also have been in the dock 🙄

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Probably easier to list those who shouldn't be in the dock

[Argylehibby]

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At last, confirmation of yesterday's thoughts


The trial continues


AD "Do you see it as an issue that a club asset is being used to pay off the debt?" Betts "The bank hadcontrol of those assets anyway"


Break

Imagine even contemplating that they would pay off their debt using their own funds / assets rather than someone else's!

[Moulin Yarns]

Morning pt 2

Proceedings resume to hear further evidencefrom former Rangers' director Phil Betts.

The Advocate Depute, Alex Prentice QC, asksif it was an issue to him that Wavetower were not providing any funds? Betts"No"

Email to witness says deal is £20m"The reality is Wavetower will not be providing this amount, instead willcome from the club direct"

Betts says he can't recall receiving theemail but accepts he must have.

1. AD"Was it your understanding that Ticketus was not to be mentioned?"Donald Findlay rises to object to question. LadyStacey upholds objection
2.
3. Bettssays he believed there was a non-disclosure agreement but didn't see it. AD Whotold you about the NDA? Betts "He is not in the room today."
AD: "Can I make it clear to you, you have immunity,you can't be prosecuted over this." Betts says he can't remember signingloan deal

Betts adds "I'm a little bit stressedat the moment

AD "Did you act on a frolic of yourown" Betts "Frolic?" AD "You just did it on your own"Betts "I don't remember

Advocate Depute ends, Donald Findlay QCrises to cross-examine

Findlay opens "I have no intention topry into your business affairs..but crucial jury have all the information theyneed."

Findlay "Who has £33m in cash?"Betts "Nobody I know" DF "Possibly a gentleman from Medellin,but that might ring alarm bells" (Columbian drug cartel?)

Findlay "Did you ever want to be thedirector of a football club?" Betts "No"

Betts says he first found out about Whyte'splan to buy Rangers from Vincent Bull (Escrow)







Ends (WHIT???)

[Iain G]

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Morning pt 2

Proceedings resume to hear further evidencefrom former Rangers' director Phil Betts.

The Advocate Depute, Alex Prentice QC, asksif it was an issue to him that Wavetower were not providing any funds? Betts"No"

Email to witness says deal is £20m"The reality is Wavetower will not be providing this amount, instead willcome from the club direct"

Betts says he can't recall receiving theemail but accepts he must have.

1. AD"Was it your understanding that Ticketus was not to be mentioned?"Donald Findlay rises to object to question. LadyStacey upholds objection
2.
3. Bettssays he believed there was a non-disclosure agreement but didn't see it. AD Whotold you about the NDA? Betts "He is not in the room today."
AD: "Can I make it clear to you, you have immunity,you can't be prosecuted over this." Betts says he can't remember signingloan deal

Betts adds "I'm a little bit stressedat the moment

AD "Did you act on a frolic of yourown" Betts "Frolic?" AD "You just did it on your own"Betts "I don't remember

Advocate Depute ends, Donald Findlay QCrises to cross-examine

Findlay opens "I have no intention topry into your business affairs..but crucial jury have all the information theyneed."

Findlay "Who has £33m in cash?"Betts "Nobody I know" DF "Possibly a gentleman from Medellin,but that might ring alarm bells" (Columbian drug cartel?)

Findlay "Did you ever want to be thedirector of a football club?" Betts "No"

Betts says he first found out about Whyte'splan to buy Rangers from Vincent Bull (Escrow)







Ends (WHIT???)

They are all a bunch of liars, cowards and shysters by the sounds of this whole transcript!

Sure they are all proper Rangers-minded people though so that's all ok

[Moulin Yarns]

Post lunch perusings

Proceedings resume to hear furthercross-examination from Donald Findlay QC of former Rangers' director Phil Betts

Betts says initial proposal to Ticketus wasfor £10m towards the purchase of Rangers.

Witness says there is nothing unusual about3rd party funding only being available once deal completed

Findlay: "Murray gave away Rangers fora joke, a pound slid across a table"

Findlay "A central element to all thiswas that Rangers were in debt to the bank for £18m. The debt was cleared."Betts "Yes"

Findlay on debt repayment, "Was it notbetter to keep money in house rather than pay it in interest to the bank."Betts "Yes"

Findlay "Wavetower could​ have writtenthe debt off?" Betts "I don't think Ticketus would have been happywith that."

Findlay it could be said selling seasontickets in advance would cut your income, but would reduce payments to thebank"

Findlay "Do you know much aboutfootball" Betts "I'm a Tottenham supporter" (that’ll be a no then J )

Findlay suggests if Rangers "went deepinto the Champions League" that would overcome the sale of the seasontickets. Would be "debt free"

Findlay "Your taking a gamble, butmany business plans involved a gamble" Betts "Correct"

DF 'You get rid of the debt, make it moreattractive to investors and get Champions League money, that was the businessplan.'



TBC

[Moulin Yarns]

Betts on the Ibrox takeover data room:"It was poor, there didn't seem to be enough in it."


Witness says he found out about the"small tax case" at the end of a conference call with Murray Group

Findlay "So someone said, by the wayyou owe HMRC £2.8m, have a nice weekend" Betts "Yes" J

Findlay "Did David Grier know aboutthe Ticketus deal" Betts "Yes" Findlay "Was he any use atall?" Betts "Not particularly"

Betts says he only found out about the"substantial increase" in the Rangers CEO's contract after thetakeover.

Witness says was asked by Whyte to join theRangers board before the takeover. Doesn't remember signing any forms.

Findlay "If was to spend £5m onplayers should I just wander about a public park saying 'do you want to signfor Rangers son?"

Findlay "The bank was paid, the stadium was fixed,the tax case was appealed and players were signed."

Findlay "Did you obtain additionalfunding?" Betts says £2m was sourced from "Close Brothers" inmid 2011.

Findlay "It's up to people to decideif Mr Whyte's business model was better than the one before"

"Was not a club that was hale andhearty but struggling badly..in huge debt"

Findlay notes Rangers price reduced from£5m to £1 due to health and safety issue (£1.7m) and tax case (£2.8m) "Thatadds up to £4.5m. They just threw 500k out of the window"

Lady Stacey intervenes "Is there aquestion in there Mr Findlay?"




Fin