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View Poll Results: What is your attitude to a new "Rangers" entering at Div1?

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  • Opposed - and will walk away from Scottish professional football

    533 53.09%
  • Opposed - but will continue to support the game.

    447 44.52%
  • In favour.

    24 2.39%
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  1. #37111
    @hibs.net private member Moulin Yarns's Avatar
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    And last for the week

    Proceedings resume Donald Findlay asks PhilBetts if Ticketus was a respected firm Betts "Yes"

    Findlay "Was the club in a betterposition after the deal?" Betts "Yes"

    Betts on keeping Ticketus involvementconfidential "I think most football clubs do it"

    Betts says the £2m sourced from CloseBrothers was used for "stadium repairs"

    Betts agrees the board meeting whoseminutes are dated on the Saturday was a "notional meeting"

    Betts says he would be "disappointedin himself" if he signed a document he hadn't read "at least someof"

    Findlay on paying the Ticketus money to thebank "it had to go via a fairly circuitous route?" Betts"Yes"

    Findlay "No-one would accept obviousillegality in this transaction?" Betts "No"

    Findlay ends by asking why the witness saidTicketus would have said no to Murray doing the same deal "They told meso"

    Donald Findlay ends his cross-examination.Advocate Depute rises to re-examine




    AD "Football is an emotivematter," more than just a normal business?" Betts "Yes"

    AD suggests this explains why Murray wantedassurances over what happened after club was sold. Betts agrees

    AD Asks what the witness thinks Murraywould have thought about Ticketus Findlay objects Judge allows question

    Betts "They were getting pressure fromelsewhere to complete the transaction"

    AD "They didn't get the chance becauseit was concealed from them" Ends re-examination

    AD says he should be able to close theCrown case next week, has 8 witnesses left. Court adjourns

    There is no such thing as too much yarn, just not enough time.


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  3. #37112
    The Crown has made a complete gubbins of this.They've given immunity to a succession of witnesses who then will not give the evidence that the Crown wants.Most of them sound like they're appearing for the defence.

  4. #37113
    Solipsist Eyrie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ancient hibee View Post
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    The Crown has made a complete gubbins of this.They've given immunity to a succession of witnesses who then will not give the evidence that the Crown wants.Most of them sound like they're appearing for the defence.
    Honour amongst thieves?
    Mature, sensible signature required for responsible position. Good prospects for the right candidate. Apply within.

  5. #37114
    @hibs.net private member JimBHibees's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ancient hibee View Post
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    The Crown has made a complete gubbins of this.They've given immunity to a succession of witnesses who then will not give the evidence that the Crown wants.Most of them sound like they're appearing for the defence.
    Probably the plan all along. Another carpet lifting exercise no doubt.

  6. #37115
    @hibs.net private member Hibernianinc's Avatar
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    Sorry for the really basic question, but who do we want to win this?

    Rephrased, which outcome is worst for TRFC?

  7. #37116
    @hibs.net private member CropleyWasGod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hibernianinc View Post
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    Sorry for the really basic question, but who do we want to win this?

    Rephrased, which outcome is worst for TRFC?
    If you mean the current entity, I'm not sure that there is a preferred outcome.

    There is a fanciful scenario whereby, as a result of this particular case, BDO start civil proceedings against some of the individuals involved. If that were to happen, Oldco might be in a position to buy back their assets. But that's for Series 8....we're only on Series 5.

    To answer your question, it's a bit like watching Hearts play Rangers. We want them all to kick **** out of each other....which is what is happening...and for them all to get red cards. The result is almost irrelevant



    Sent from my SM-A510F using Tapatalk
    Last edited by CropleyWasGod; 20-05-2017 at 10:31 AM.

  8. #37117
    @hibs.net private member Stonewall's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ancient hibee View Post
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    The Crown has made a complete gubbins of this.They've given immunity to a succession of witnesses who then will not give the evidence that the Crown wants.Most of them sound like they're appearing for the defence.
    It's beginning to look that way. I wonder how many millions this has cost/ wasted.

    fascinating stuff though.

  9. #37118
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stonewall View Post
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    It's beginning to look that way. I wonder how many millions this has cost/ wasted.

    fascinating stuff though.
    Not as big a waste as tracking down supporters that were on the pitch.

  10. #37119
    @hibs.net private member Stonewall's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PatHead View Post
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    Not as big a waste as tracking down supporters that were on the pitch.
    The pursuit of those invading the pitch is certainly more futile, although I may re-vist that opinion if we get a not proven verdict.

  11. #37120
    Testimonial Due Treadstone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stonewall View Post
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    The pursuit of those invading the pitch is certainly more futile, although I may re-vist that opinion if we get a not proven verdict.
    I did laugh at that but only because John Wilson got a not proven after admitting assaulting Neil Lennon.

  12. #37121
    DF will have a spring in his step for the next instalment of the CW trial.

    Might just swing things for his client!!

  13. #37122
    @hibs.net private member Moulin Yarns's Avatar
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    a new week in the life of Craigie




    next witness for the Crown, John Newlands

    Newlands tells the court he is 62 and is a"corporate financier"

    Newlands says he raises funds for small andmedium sized enterprises Met Craig Whyte in 2010

    Newlands says he met Whyte through a PeterShakeshaft. (no giggling at the back J )

    Newlands points to Craig Whyte in court,sitting in the dock between two security staff

    The witness confirms he provided someemails to the police Advocate Depute asks for court screens to be turned on

    Letter shown to court from "City oneSecurities" to Murraym Says Liberty Capital has "up to £10m" tosupport a rights issue for Rangers

    Newlands says he wrote the letter afterWhyte told him he had assets of £60m. Wrote letter in "good faith" (now we know the definition of “Off theRadar wealth!)

    Newlands says when letter written he was"under pressure" for rent from his landlord. "Did not have thecash to meet obligations"

    Newlands says he asked Whyte for £2,100 foroffice rent bill. Jury and witness leavecourt while a legal matter is discussed.

    To be continued
    There is no such thing as too much yarn, just not enough time.

  14. #37123
    @hibs.net private member greenginger's Avatar
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    Shakeshaft ! brilliant name for character in this farce.

  15. #37124
    @hibs.net private member Moulin Yarns's Avatar
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    Live tweeting being allowed again *confused*


    Jury return to court, Advocate Depute risesto take further evidence from Mr Newlands

    Newlands confirm that in March 2011 hiscompany was at risk of eviction from its offices. Whyte offered to write acheque

    However cheque would take 3 days to clear,which would have taken too long.

    Newlands says "Craig transferred fundselectronically" to pay the rent. He then signed letter saying LibertyCapital had £30m in assets

    Newlands says he based asset letter wasbased on a draft emailed to him by Mr Whyte.

    Newlands says he does not recall seeingproof of the £10m but "would be very surprised" if he had writtenletter without seeing it.

    Donald Findlay QC for the defence rises tocross-examine Mr Newlands.

    Newlands says his company was regulated bythe Financial Conduct Authority, "They have more power than HMRC andCustoms put together" Findlay "I don't know if that scares you but itscares me...they are a wolf you wouldn't want to invite into yourhenhouse"

    Findlay "In a letter of comfort areyou guaranteeing anything?" Newlands "No"

    Findlay "If you have a friend who isshort of cash you would help them out..not a vast sum of money £2,100"Newlands agrees

    Findlay "The business in non-technicalterm was skint?" Newlands "It was a commercial transaction"

    Findlay suggests that it is understandablethat Newlands can not recall what documents he saw 6 years ago.

    Newlands says the regulator allows clientsto self-certify there level of funds. Witness ends his evidence.


    (Well, that was boring)

    Next witness Stuart McClean

    There is no such thing as too much yarn, just not enough time.

  16. #37125
    @hibs.net private member lord bunberry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by greenginger View Post
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    Shakeshaft ! brilliant name for character in this farce.
    He must've had a difficult childhood with that name

    United we stand here....

  17. #37126
    @hibs.net private member BonnieFitbaTeam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lord bunberry View Post
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    He must've had a difficult childhood with that name

    He's lucky he had a childhood at all given that his father is Mr. Shakeshaft !
    At Easter Road They Play.....

  18. #37127
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    Quote Originally Posted by lord bunberry View Post
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    He must've had a difficult childhood with that name
    Could have been so much different, imaging a letter change from h to n.

  19. #37128
    @hibs.net private member & Biggest, Funniest Slaver on hibs.net 2012 Pedantic_Hibee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rodhibs55 View Post
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    Could have been so much different, imaging a letter change from h to n.
    Shakesnaft?
    "Play for the name on the front of the jersey and the supporters will remember the name on the back"

  20. #37129
    @hibs.net private member lord bunberry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BonnieFitbaTeam View Post
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    He's lucky he had a childhood at all given that his father is Mr. Shakeshaft !

    United we stand here....

  21. #37130
    @hibs.net private member lord bunberry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rodhibs55 View Post
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    Could have been so much different, imaging a letter change from h to n.
    That's his porn name.

    United we stand here....

  22. #37131
    @hibs.net private member Moulin Yarns's Avatar
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    Next witness Stuart McClean

    Mr McLean tells the court he is 42 and asolicitor.

    Mclean says he joined Dundas and Wilson in2004, became a partner in 2008

    Mclean says his firm had a long termrelationship with the Murray Group of companies. Worked on sale of shareholdingin Rangers

    Mclean "The team at Murray wanted theshareholding disposed of" says he worked on the legal side of this as partof a larger team.

    Mclean says he has to "take care inhis response" due to legal privilege. Can't answer last question. Jury andwitness asked to leave court

    Jury return to court. Lady Stacey tellswitness, Mr Mclean, that she understands his obligation of confidentiality but Notescourt has heard from David Murray and other witnesses, directs Mclean legalprivilege has effectively been waived

    Mclean is directed to answer questionsrelating to sale of Rangers shares unless there is an objection or judgeintervenes.

    Mclean says that he still has"difficulties" over discussing interactions with clients. LadyStacey: "If you are in doubt please let me know

    Mclean says this was his first involvementin the sale of a football club.

    Advocate Depute asks what Murray wanted toachieve with the sale of Rangers Mclean refers to Share Purchase Agreement

    Mclean asked about Andrew Ellis. Witnesssays he expressed interest in buying Rangers in 2010 Doesn't recall if therewas a meeting.

    Mclean says he became aware of Craig Whyteafter Ellis organised a meeting with him and David Murray in the South ofFrance.

    Says his firm provided a"chaperone" for the first Whyte/Murray meeting

    Mclean asked if he thought Whyte's offerwas "serious" Lady Stacey intervenes and says would not be for thiswitness to judge that

    Mclean, "Questions were asked aboutthe funding," of the bid Says letters were received from solicitorsColloyer Bristow.

    Witness shown email to him by solicitorGary Withey, October 2010. Says Liberty Capital hold sufficient funds for theacquisition of shares

    Says funds are held in a UK bank account and are"under the direct control" of LCL Adds "The assets of targetwill not be used for the borrowings of bidco"

    Mclean, "I took the email at facevalue."

    Court showing Mclean's reply to Witheyemail. Says Murray requires "additional certainty" on funds availableto "bidco"

    Mclean says at this point the"Enterprise value" of Rangers was £33m, debt was £27m, so price forshares being discussed £5.5n

    Mclean email notes the financialinstitution backing Whyte "remained anonymous" AD "Did youask" Mclean "This indicates we did"

    Court adjourns for lunch

    There is no such thing as too much yarn, just not enough time.

  23. #37132
    @hibs.net private member Moulin Yarns's Avatar
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    Afternoon



    Proceedings resume with the AdvocateDepute, Alex Prentice QC continuing his examination of solicitor Stuart Mclean

    Before evidence resumes Mr Mclean raisesthe issue of legal privilege, says he doesn't think a "waiver" ispossible.

    Lady Stacey asks the jury and witness toleave the court while a legal issue is discussed.





    I’m going for a Contempt of court here

    There is no such thing as too much yarn, just not enough time.

  24. #37133
    @hibs.net private member Billy Whizz's Avatar
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    When is the trial due to end?

  25. #37134
    @hibs.net private member CropleyWasGod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billy Whizz View Post
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    When is the trial due to end?
    Think 11 weeks have been set aside.

    We're on week 4?

    The Crown says it should be able to finish up this week. Then it's the Findlay show.

  26. #37135
    Coaching Staff HoboHarry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod View Post
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    Think 11 weeks have been set aside.

    We're on week 4?

    The Crown says it should be able to finish up this week. Then it's the Findlay show.
    If thus far has only been witnesses for the prosecution side then the AD must be sh*****g himself at the thought of Findlay rampaging over his case next week.......

  27. #37136
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    Quote Originally Posted by BonnieFitbaTeam View Post
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    He's lucky he had a childhood at all given that his father is Mr. Shakeshaft !
    I'm sure I knew his sister a long time ago.

  28. #37137
    @hibs.net private member Moulin Yarns's Avatar
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    Jury comes back into court

    McLean says the purchase of Rangersinvolved a lot of "to and fro"

    Mclean says that during the negotiations he"continued to ask" about the source of Whyte's funds

    Email 28 March 2011, email from McLean toGary Withey, subject "Charlotte" "Obviously funding is the keyissue at the moment"

    Withey replies, "We are still happywith the funding and indeed the club should be also.

    Mclean reply "on funding, it is theevidence of this which is key at this point"

    Lady Stacey: "a 'client account' isvery much a term of art" asks witness to explain "as you do thisevery day"

    Lady Stacey: "a 'letter of comfort' isvery much a term of art" asks witness to explain "as you do thisevery day"

    Email from Gary Withey to McLean 30 March2011, says he is "suffering the vagaries of bank transfers" saysHoare and Co "slow to inform us"

    Next Withey email on funds: says they havereceived some but not the balance "still chasing it through the bankingsystem"

    Withey email 31 March: "I am highlyconfident that in the course of today..the funds to complete will be inplace."

    Next Withey email "I am expecting toconfirm the availability of funds within the next 30 mins"

    Next Withey email "I am pleased toconfirm I now have access to available funds to complete the transaction"

    McLean says he was concerned Withey said hehad "access to funds" rather than they were in the bank account"

    31 March email from McLean to Withey asksfor confirmation of "quantum" of funds available, including £2.8m fortax liability

    McLean email to Withey 4 April 2011:"Key to be able to complete will be getting £27.5m into your clientaccount tomorrow..please confirm"

    Withey reply "I have had theconversation" McLean agrees is not an answer to his question.

    5 April email to Withey "Can youplease confirm funds have been sent to your client account." Last 4 wordsunderlined

    6 April email McLean to Withey "Davidreminded me to confirm..£27.5m now sits in your client account"

    reply "I have explained a number oftimes I have full visibility on the money...being in my client account does notmake it more secure."

    Next email to Withey on funds "This isnot what was promised..when will the funds be in your account?"

    Withey reply "Apologies for the delay,but that's the banking system for you" Continues "I confirm that Inow hold all completion monies"

    McLean reply "Can you confirm how muchmoney you hold?"




    Court takes a short break

    There is no such thing as too much yarn, just not enough time.

  29. #37138
    @hibs.net private member Moulin Yarns's Avatar
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    Proceedings resume

    Next email McLean to Withey: "Doesyour email mean a minimum of £27.5m is held to the order of Wavetower in yourclient account?"

    "My clients have made it clear againthey want to know how much money is in your client account"

    McLean says his client had an issue withchange to Share Purchase Agreement by Withey to "up to £5m" availablefor working capital.

    Email to Withey "Are you able to namethe financial institution that has given this confirmation" McLean saysnot sure what this refers to

    Court shown copy of Share PurchaseAgreement between Whyte and Murray, clause 6 creates a "bindingobligation"

    McLean denies clause is "window dressing"says is a contractual obligation.

    McLean says the Share Purchase Agreementstates Whyte must transfer funds "immediately after" deal is funded

    McLean says that he did not know Ticketuswere supplying funds for the takeover: did know Rangers used them for"short term capital"



    Court adjourns until 10am tomorrow

    There is no such thing as too much yarn, just not enough time.

  30. #37139
    Coaching Staff Iain G's Avatar
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    Is the season ticket money considered an asset of the club when said season tickets have not yet been sold for the new season and are not yet an actual "asset" of the club/company?

    Craiggie is just borrowing against future potential income? Or is that far too simple

  31. #37140
    @hibs.net private member Jamesie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod View Post
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    The Crown says it should be able to finish up this week. Then it's the Findlay show.
    Is that from something said on twitter or was it mentioned in court?

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