Syria

[rosscarnie]

I was wondering why the west is not supporting the rebels in Syria like it did with Libya. Is it to do with Israel's security or maybe cause they don't have any oil or something else?

[HibeeSince85]

This thread could be fun! For me it's anyone of these:

Money
Oil
The whole of the Middle East going radge!

Anybody remember when we weren't always in some form of war/conflict?

[ballengeich]

It's mainly to do with the attitude of other Arab governments. They regarded Gaddafi as a dangerous lunatic who was a potential threat to them so voted in the UN for action against him. While Assad will give support to people taking action against Israel his interference in other Arab countries has only extended to Lebanon so other Middle East dictatorships have been unconcerned about his oppression of his own citizens.

It remains to be seen whether reports from the current Arab League observers in Syria will lead to a willingness for international action. Initially there would not have been Arab support for UN approved action and both Russia and China would have used a veto. There are indications that the Arab League position may be changing.

[Detox]

We're gonna take over Syria next, not stopping till we get them all, thank god we're on the bad side!

[Lucius Apuleius]

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This thread could be fun! For me it's anyone of these:

Money
Oil
The whole of the Middle East going radge!

Anybody remember when we weren't always in some form of war/conflict?

Not in my life time.

[Leicester Fan]

We can't win. If we let them get on with it people say 'why aren't we doing anything?'. If we get involved people complain 'we're just after their oil/it's none of our business/what about Israel?'.

That said it'll be interesting to hear Hezbollah sympathisers explain their part in the oppression.

[Hiberlin]

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We can't win. If we let them get on with it people say 'why aren't we doing anything?'. If we get involved people complain 'we're just after their oil/it's none of our business/what about Israel?'.

That said it'll be interesting to hear Hezbollah sympathisers explain their part in the oppression.

Considering our armed forces are just hoodies in uniform, it would be ill advised to send them to anyones aid.

[steakbake]

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Not in my life time.

One year, I think. In all the years after WW2 there's been only one year when the UK wasn't actively involved overseas.

[Sumner]

.. I was wondering why anyone gives one F
about things over there, nevermind money..

[Lucius Apuleius]

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One year, I think. In all the years after WW2 there's been only one year when the UK wasn't actively involved overseas.

Possible mate, cannae recall it though

[ginger_rice]

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One year, I think. In all the years after WW2 there's been only one year when the UK wasn't actively involved overseas.

1968 is the only year that no UK servicemen have been killed

[ginger_rice]

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Considering our armed forces are just hoodies in uniform, it would be ill advised to send them to anyones aid.

And you base that opinion on what exactly?

As an ex-servicemen I find that statement quite offensive to be truthful, I've never worn a hoodie in my life!!

[Hiberlin]

I base that statement on the opinions of a few on here who make sweeping statements about the military. Pisses me off no end. If some of the statements made on here about soldiers were directed at other groups, then there would be hell to pay. But it would seem that it's open season on the military.

[ginger_rice]

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I base that statement on the opinions of a few on here who make sweeping statements about the military. Pisses me off no end. If some of the statements made on here about soldiers were directed at other groups, then there would be hell to pay. But it would seem that it's open season on the military.

Ah! Sorry I didn't pick up on the irony in your previous post....I totally agree with your post above BTW.

[Hiberlin]

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Ah! Sorry I didn't pick up on the irony in your previous post....I totally agree with your post above BTW.

No probs mate. Can't post smilies using my android.

[Betty Boop]

Russia and China veto UN resolution endorsing Arab League plan for Syria.

[heretoday]

Syria are harder than Libya or Iraq. It wouldn't be like shooting fish in a barrel.

[steakbake]

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Syria are harder than Libya or Iraq. It wouldn't be like shooting fish in a barrel.

Yeah, Iraq was easy.

I reckon nothing is going to happen in Syria until Putin decides otherwise.

[ancienthibby]

In all of this turmoil, is there not a UN definition of what is a 'civil war'

If it's not the government in residence killing and brutalising its own people, then what else is???

[Betty Boop]

http://www.informationclearinghouse....ticle30456.htm

[hibsbollah]

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http://www.informationclearinghouse....ticle30456.htm

I'd suggest the facts from Homs are fairly demonstrable. The BBC journalist whose name escapes me is in Homs and is reporting on the artillery barrage and filming the carnage unfolding. The AI press release below makes it clear what the UK govts response should be; an arms embargo, an assets freeze and a referral of the Syrian leaders to the International Criminal Court.

ICH seems to muddy the waters here, when the facts on the ground are actually quite clear. I hope were not seeing more evidence of a 'Israel is bad, Israel's enemy is Hezbollah, Hezbollah is funded by Syria, ergo Syria can't be the bad guys' kind of screwed-up false logic that gives the left a bad name.

http://www.amnesty.org/en/for-media/...protesters-201

[Betty Boop]

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I'd suggest the facts from Homs are fairly demonstrable. The BBC journalist whose name escapes me is in Homs and is reporting on the artillery barrage and filming the carnage unfolding. The AI press release below makes it clear what the UK govts response should be; an arms embargo, an assets freeze and a referral of the Syrian leaders to the International Criminal Court.

ICH seems to muddy the waters here, when the facts on the ground are actually quite clear. I hope were not seeing more evidence of a 'Israel is bad, Israel's enemy is Hezbollah, Hezbollah is funded by Syria, ergo Syria can't be the bad guys' kind of screwed-up false logic that gives the left a bad name.

http://www.amnesty.org/en/for-media/...protesters-201

I think the situation is far more complicated than we are led to believe in the mainstream media. The Arab League's Observer Mission report makes interesting reading, unsurprisingly it has had little coverage here.

http://www.columbia.edu/~hauben/Repo...er_Mission.pdf


Also Robert Fisk's article is a more balanced view of events IMO.


http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion...dth=0&height=0

[steakbake]

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I think the situation is far more complicated than we are led to believe in the mainstream media. The Arab League's Observer Mission report makes interesting reading, unsurprisingly it has had little coverage here.

http://www.columbia.edu/~hauben/Repo...er_Mission.pdf


Also Robert Fisk's article is a more balanced view of events IMO.


http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion...dth=0&height=0

Ahhhhh Robert Fisk!

[hibsbollah]

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I think the situation is far more complicated than we are led to believe in the mainstream media. The Arab League's Observer Mission report makes interesting reading, unsurprisingly it has had little coverage here.

http://www.columbia.edu/~hauben/Repo...er_Mission.pdf


Also Robert Fisk's article is a more balanced view of events IMO.


http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion...dth=0&height=0

Robert Fisk should always be taken seriously. He knows his stuff. But that report is about diplomacy, not about the murder on the streets which is the main issue, and which is wrong for anybody to try to deny.

[khib70]

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I'd suggest the facts from Homs are fairly demonstrable. The BBC journalist whose name escapes me is in Homs and is reporting on the artillery barrage and filming the carnage unfolding. The AI press release below makes it clear what the UK govts response should be; an arms embargo, an assets freeze and a referral of the Syrian leaders to the International Criminal Court.

ICH seems to muddy the waters here, when the facts on the ground are actually quite clear. I hope were not seeing more evidence of a 'Israel is bad, Israel's enemy is Hezbollah, Hezbollah is funded by Syria, ergo Syria can't be the bad guys' kind of screwed-up false logic that gives the left a bad name.

http://www.amnesty.org/en/for-media/...protesters-201

Right on the money, HB. There can be no denying what is happening, and who is responsible. And your proposed solutions are also bang on. Plus of course diplomatic pressure on Russia and China to drop their ridiculous head-in-the-sand denial.

I also agree about the false logic, but I'm not surprised that ICH takes the line it does, since they are among the foremost to display this attitude, which has indeed made the left look hypocritical.

It may suit some people to actually believe the nonsense about tires being set on fire to simulate an artillery barrage, but most people can see from the BBC reports you mention that this is not burning tires.It may suit some people also to ignore Hizbollah's (and Iran's) role in these atrocities, but the evidence is pretty damning.

Even George Galloway seems to have retreated from his previous fawning position toward Assad. Not that what he thinks matters a damn to anyone that gives a damn

[Betty Boop]

Oh what a surprise, British and Qatari special forces on the ground in Syria.

http://www.debka.com/article/21718/

[khib70]

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Oh what a surprise, British and Qatari special forces on the ground in Syria.

http://www.debka.com/article/21718/

Even if this is true, your own link suggests they're actually not there in a combat role.

And they're not the only visitors in Syria either

http://www.lbcgroup.tv/news/19237/he...hters-in-syria

Presumably your concerns about outside interference apply to them as well?

And then, of course, there's these guys

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/46235702...torial-regime/

Certainly neither of these interventions appear to bother the Information Clearing House

[AndyP]

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One year, I think. In all the years after WW2 there's been only one year when the UK wasn't actively involved overseas.

Assistance to the Mauritian Government in 1968, so even if you exclude the Cold War deployments, there has not been a year since 1945 when the British Military were not involved in an Operation somewhere in the world.


Just because nobody got killed doesn't mean we were sitting in the NAAFI supping ale you know ;)

[steakbake]

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Assistance to the Mauritian Government in 1968, so even if you exclude the Cold War deployments, there has not been a year since 1945 when the British Military were not involved in an Operation somewhere in the world.


Just because nobody got killed doesn't mean we were sitting in the NAAFI supping ale you know ;)

From about 1.50 onwards...

[Betty Boop]

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Even if this is true, your own link suggests they're actually not there in a combat role.

And they're not the only visitors in Syria either

http://www.lbcgroup.tv/news/19237/he...hters-in-syria

Presumably your concerns about outside interference apply to them as well?

And then, of course, there's these guys

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/46235702...torial-regime/

Certainly neither of these interventions appear to bother the Information Clearing House

Erm, we can hardly take the moral highground over arming odious regimes, Saudi Arabia who are having their own troubles, having shot two protestors yesterday at an 'illegal gathering, and who weren't slow in entering Bahrain to help with the crack down on dissent. The scenario in Syria is just a rehash of what happened in the lead up to our intervention in Libya, however I think any outside intervention will be disastrous for the region. Just my opinion Kh !