Relegation Dogfight

[hibsbollah]

This debate is getting on my tits now. Poster A- 'the atmosphere at Hibs is rubbish, it would help if we got behind the players more'; results in Poster B saying sarcastically 'Oh aye, its all the fans fault'.




There are two incontrovertible facts; first, the atmosphere is rubbish, second, the team is playing rubbish. Which of these things came first isnt really important, like arguing over chicken and egg. But maybe it would just be more enjoyable to show some positivity? It can't actually hurt, anyway?

[RIP]

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What a shock. Home team - with god awful record in last 2 years - lose a goal and fans get edgy.Yes, those Saints coaches really did let slip a state secret eh......

Clever use of misquote there - very crafty!! They didn't say we got edgy. They said we got on our players backs and thus made the players edgy.

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Between this post and the garbage you posted last night on the PM board Im not entirely sure what your agenda is anymore. Your continual booting of the hibs support is completely at odds with your holier than thou approach to the singing section.

I'm not interested in the singing section Dave. I'm simply interested in anything we Hibbies can do to keep our team in the SPL

As for posts I'm just getting a bit peed off with a few people telling me they are supporters when they quite clearly do not know the meaning of the word. We have a rank reputation as supporters. We're ***** and we know we are. But we don't have to be. We can raise our game. I'm confident we can and will raise our game.

As for holier than thou - you obviously have never met me ...... or heard me. Talk to LBP if you want a reference

[weonlywon6-2]

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The players don't like the atmosphere at home, Fife and co made that clear at the recent forum.

Caught myself screaming abuse recently but now I'm starting to question the impact that's having on their confidence.

over the years ive always found the away support to be far more behind the team than at easter road

[S.sct]

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This debate is getting on my tits now. Poster A- 'the atmosphere at Hibs is rubbish, it would help if we got behind the players more'; results in Poster B saying sarcastically 'Oh aye, its all the fans fault'.




There are two incontrovertible facts; first, the atmosphere is rubbish, second, the team is playing rubbish. Which of these things came first isnt really important, like arguing over chicken and egg. But maybe it would just be more enjoyable to show some positivity? It can't actually hurt, anyway?

Absolutely bang on......it's glaringly obvious that the team have no confidence at all and we exacerbate that by booing every mis placed pass. Yes the football is grim right now and has been on a downward spiral for a long time now but lets not add to it from the stand.Try it and watch the difference in the team.

[Nando™]

Just because the players should be able to handle the booing (which is debatable by the way) doesn't mean that they can, and using that as an excuse to continue booing or chuck abuse towards our own players is ridiculous and says a bit about the mental state of some people.

As someone said, the atmosphere we create at home, as a whole, is not the biggest problem we have, but it sure is one we can easily cut out. It doesn't surprise me in the slightest that our away record is better, because the players are far more relaxed and comfortable in any place that is not Easter Road.

You boo = you help the opposition. Simple. Stop it.

[Argylehibby]

[QUOTE=PeeJay;3062334]
I feel players should be able to deal with it however - if they can't, then they are not applying themselves correctly to the job of being a footballer - football is an emotional sport - highly charged at times, players have to take the rough with the smooth - when the team is playing well the fans sing their praises, when they play badly: what are fans supposed to do - they have to vent their frustration somehow.

Ideally players would be able to stand up to the pressure but the simple fact is that some, especially the younger ones, at this time are not. Experienced pro's have in the past gone through a bad spell and struggled to cope with the pressure and currently a significant proportion of our team are struggling. Have you ever had the hopes and dreams of 12,000 + people resting on your shoulders? I would imagine that's a heck of a lot of pressure for a young lad to take on wouldn’t you?

To solve that problem we either replace the players in the transfer window with more experienced players with stronger personalities which comes at a cost to the club, we hire some sports psychologist again at cost to the club or we, the supporters, stop giving them grief for every mistake they make and instead of venting the frustration in a negative way actually try to encourage the players. Replace the "FFS players Name that’s F**** sh****!" with an equally loud and emotional "never mind Players name get the heid up and get stuck in" or similar (preferably better!) encouragement.

No its not easy but should we expect the board, the manager, the players and everyone else at the club to improve what they are doing but for us to say we are not even willing to consider that we might actually be able to help? Why wouldn’t we want to try and help? What is there to lose in at least trying?
When the club started referring to fans as part of "the Hibernian family" we were happy to be looked upon in that way. Families are supposed to help each other aren't they?

As I said on an earlier post the fans are not the only problem but we are one of the problems. We are by no means the biggest problem either. To get the club out of this mess each of the problems has to be tackled. Yes we need better and more experienced players and I'm not advocating we don’t sign anyone but if we improve at least in a small way every separate aspect that is combining to cause the problem the overall improvement should be greater.

[HibbyRod]

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It's common knowledge amongst SPL teams that if you score a goal against Hibs at ER the crowd will get on the players backs.

I was told that by 2 coaches at St Johnstone. Apparently similar was said by Butcher and Lennon

We may not like it - but it's a fact.

The players know it
The opposition know it
Our manager and board know it

and it contributes to why we are languishing at the bottom of the SPL

You've got to be on the wind-up bud, eh??!!

[nortonhibby]

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Maybe they should get different jobs then, maybe plumbers or something?
Stop pampering them: they do not have tough lives!
They got us into this mess: they can get us out of it - booing fans are not THE problem!

one man is responsable for the mess RP Don Teflon get the cheque book oot now Petrie and sort the mess you have caused.

[matty_f]

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This debate is getting on my tits now. Poster A- 'the atmosphere at Hibs is rubbish, it would help if we got behind the players more'; results in Poster B saying sarcastically 'Oh aye, its all the fans fault'.




There are two incontrovertible facts; first, the atmosphere is rubbish, second, the team is playing rubbish. Which of these things came first isnt really important, like arguing over chicken and egg. But maybe it would just be more enjoyable to show some positivity? It can't actually hurt, anyway?

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Just because the players should be able to handle the booing (which is debatable by the way) doesn't mean that they can, and using that as an excuse to continue booing or chuck abuse towards our own players is ridiculous and says a bit about the mental state of some people.

As someone said, the atmosphere we create at home, as a whole, is not the biggest problem we have, but it sure is one we can easily cut out. It doesn't surprise me in the slightest that our away record is better, because the players are far more relaxed and comfortable in any place that is not Easter Road.

You boo = you help the opposition. Simple. Stop it.

Best posts on this topic so far, IMHO.

[PeeJay]

[QUOTE=Argylehibby;3062996]

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I feel players should be able to deal with it however - if they can't, then they are not applying themselves correctly to the job of being a footballer - football is an emotional sport - highly charged at times, players have to take the rough with the smooth - when the team is playing well the fans sing their praises, when they play badly: what are fans supposed to do - they have to vent their frustration somehow.

Ideally players would be able to stand up to the pressure but the simple fact is that some, especially the younger ones, at this time are not. Experienced pro's have in the past gone through a bad spell and struggled to cope with the pressure and currently a significant proportion of our team are struggling. Have you ever had the hopes and dreams of 12,000 + people resting on your shoulders? I would imagine that's a heck of a lot of pressure for a young lad to take on wouldn’t you?

To solve that problem we either replace the players in the transfer window with more experienced players with stronger personalities which comes at a cost to the club, we hire some sports psychologist again at cost to the club or we, the supporters, stop giving them grief for every mistake they make and instead of venting the frustration in a negative way actually try to encourage the players. Replace the "FFS players Name that’s F**** sh****!" with an equally loud and emotional "never mind Players name get the heid up and get stuck in" or similar (preferably better!) encouragement.

No its not easy but should we expect the board, the manager, the players and everyone else at the club to improve what they are doing but for us to say we are not even willing to consider that we might actually be able to help? Why wouldn’t we want to try and help? What is there to lose in at least trying?
When the club started referring to fans as part of "the Hibernian family" we were happy to be looked upon in that way. Families are supposed to help each other aren't they?

As I said on an earlier post the fans are not the only problem but we are one of the problems. We are by no means the biggest problem either. To get the club out of this mess each of the problems has to be tackled. Yes we need better and more experienced players and I'm not advocating we don’t sign anyone but if we improve at least in a small way every separate aspect that is combining to cause the problem the overall improvement should be greater.

Agree with your post mostly - I don't think booing is good or productive and we really do not need it, but equally I don't think players (young or old) should be affected by it - it's a minor issue, not a reason for the performances served up by Hibs in recent years, just a reflection on those performances. Concentrating on the issue of booing surely only diverts attention from where it should be being focussed - player application, attitude, dedictation, fitness, professionalism, skill, capability and so on: get that rght and the booing will stop - simple really.

I don't care much for the "they're young and can't face up to the pressure" angle myself - we have young players here in Germany, playing under much greater pressure with far greater crowds and media scrutiny.

[Kato]

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You've got to be on the wind-up bud, eh??!!

He's exactly right.

There was a period in the 80's when Rangers fans weren't the most patient bunch. Every manager knew this and would try and frustrate the Rangers team on the park knowing that when the fans started carping/moaning/booing (whatever you want to call it) the confidence of the Rangers team would suffer.

Saying that "they are professionals, they should be able to handle it" is one thing but it's a simple matter of fact that they are also human and it does affect their performance, especially on a run like our current form. It's no mistake that we showed a bit fight after Stack's penalty save as the crowd were up and roaring.

Players play better when the fans are behind them - it's a football truism.

[Kato]

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Agree with your post mostly - I don't think booing is good or productive and we really do not need it, but equally I don't think players (young or old) should be affected by it - it's a minor issue,

With all due respect you are 100% wrong with the bit in bold. It's a major issue especially when players confidence is so low.

not a reason for the performances served up by Hibs in recent years, just a reflection on those performances.

You're right it's not the root cause but it's affacted us in games.

Concentrating on the issue of booing surely only diverts attention from where it should be being focussed - player application, attitude, dedictation, fitness, professionalism, skill, capability and so on: get that rght and the booing will stop - simple really.

Is it not possible to concentrate on those things as well?

Supporting the players on the park can't do any harm, no?

I don't care much for the "they're young and can't face up to the pressure" angle myself -

You might not care much for it but I can see a few fans are raising the issue now after clamming up about it in the past as every time it's mentioned there is always someone posting "SO IT'S THE FANS FAULT NOW, EH!!!" and that's not what is being said. What's being asked for is more positivity and encouragement. If you don't think that would of a benefit (to any team) then fair do's, but I think most people involved in football at whatever level would say it helps players confidence, which is at shockingly low levels at ER.

[PeeJay]

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Players play better when the fans are behind them - it's a football truism.

It may be a football truism as you say, but our team actually plays badly regardless ... mind you if booing can be used as a tactic, maybe the booing fraternity at ER should just switch sides and boo the opposing teams?

[Kato]

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It may be a football truism as you say, but our team actually plays badly regardless .

Again I disagree.

The best atmosphere at Er recetnly was last February(?) when we beat St Johnstone at home and went on thta 5 game run. The place had a wee buzz about it beforehand and the crowd were behind the team all game. We played well and won.

So we actually played better in a better atmosphere.

[Craig_in_Prague]

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Again I disagree.

The best atmosphere at Er recetnly was last February(?) when we beat St Johnstone at home and went on thta 5 game run. The place had a wee buzz about it beforehand and the crowd were behind the team all game. We played well and won.

So we actually played better in a better atmosphere.

We didn't beat St Johnstone at home last season (or at all).

Think we drew 0-0 and lost 2-1.

We drew in Feb/March with them away 1-1 during the 'run' .......

[Kato]

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We didn't beat St Johnstone at home last season (or at all).

Think we drew 0-0 and lost 2-1.

We drew in Feb/March with them away 1-1 during the 'run' .......

....., Aye. St Mirren it was, 2-0 at home.

[RIP]

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It's common knowledge amongst SPL teams that if you score a goal against Hibs at ER the crowd will get on the players backs.

I was told that by 2 coaches at St Johnstone. Apparently similar was said by Butcher and Lennon

We may not like it - but it's a fact.

The players know it
The opposition know it
Our manager and board know it

and it contributes to why we are languishing at the bottom of the SPL

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You've got to be on the wind-up bud, eh??!!

Sadly no. I participated in a fitness course SPLFFIT at McDiarmid for 12 weeks in the run up to Christmas. It was almost all Saints fans, as you would expect. I got the pash gently ripped and it didn't help when Garry tucked away his well-earned and totally deserved penalty award.

Before that game the coaches had a few guests includuding Sandy Clark and Steve Lomas. They were gentle with me about our predicament but they did mention protests against the Board and how our constant manger/player churn had done us no favours. Sandy pointed to the good chairmanship of Geoff Brown and his development of young managers - namely Owen Coyle and Derek McInnes. One of the other coaches (Doug) said that it was obvious that their were a lot of nerves at ER and it gave visiting teams confidence when they heard the Hibs crowd getting on the players backs.

Saints have a close bond with Hibs (Ormond, O'Rourke, Kane)and there was no sniping. There are a few Perth-born lads known to them (Spoony) and they tend to hear what's going on. My sister who follows St Mirren has told me that Buddies fans reckon if you score against Hibs our fans get negative. Apparently Lennon had briefed the players along those lines. I'm sure I've also read Terry Butcher saying similar and my Hearts mates joke that in fact we are the 12thMan ............for the opposition.

There have been constant pleas from our players and coaches to get behind the team. It's a big issue with the player's confidence right now and part of the reason they are hurrying off the field at the end of the match instead of applauding the support.

In Sean's words.
http://www.heraldscotland.com/mobile...94c3fe05aad1fc
Billy Brown in November
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/footbal...6908-23563265/

Other newspaper articles by Mixu, Yogi, Danny, Lewis, Ian all appealed to the Easter Road boo boys to lay off

Other team's messageboards are full of it. Just one of many (see posts 26 and 30)
http://caleythistleonline.com/topic/...t/page__st__25

At the fans forum Fife said they had hoped our fans could make Easter Road a place players would fear coming to. With a wry smile he then added that it had worked "but not in the way we had hoped". We took this as meaning the negative atmosphere had been really getting to the players for a couple of years.

As another poster said. It's understandable behaviour. It's also not our biggest problem - that's been the constant turnover in managers/players since 2006. However it is something we increasingly realise it's in our power to change. As supporters we cannot bring in players nor improve the tactics. But we can get behind every individual player and give them the support they are going to need to keep the club in the SPL.

[DaveF]

I can just see it now.

Fast forward to May and the headlines will read "Hibs relegated because the fans didn't support us".
.
I do take on board the many points raised in this thread BUT the one thing you cannot dismiss is that it becomes increasingly difficult to support a team that consistently fail on the park. Even the singing section have almost given up the ghost and they are supposedly our greatest positive supporters.

I do not boo the team while the game is on, but I will not hold back or deny any other fan their 30 seconds of frustration at either HT or FT.

The Hibernian board and Hibernian players are the ones who can turn this around. A positive attitude on the park, a wee bit of skill, a hard tackle - all that lifts the fans and from there you build momentum.

Years of dross, crap managers and a win loss record like ours make it hard for me blame the fans for the mess we are in

[Kato]

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Other team's messageboards are full of it. Just one of many (see posts 26 and 30)
http://caleythistleonline.com/topic/...t/page__st__25

Says it all...


satisfied that we havent lost the game but a little dissapointed we didnt take full advantage of Hibs fragile state. Their supporters were on their backs almost from the word go, any pass that went remotely sideways would be met with instant discontent. They need to get their perspectives in better shape or they will carry on dragging the club down.

[Craig_in_Prague]

c'mon guys, not only are you slacking at work, but you are relegating Hibs.

It's all the fans fault. Now it's clear!

[Judas Iscariot]

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How original

Far more original than you're persistent, boring, dull and repetitive berating of RP and Yogi

[PatHead]

The atmosphere at Easter Road is really poor without a doubt but that is nothing new. A couple of years ago I had a season ticket in the FF stand and one of the reasons I gave it up was the constant negativity from the people in front of me. Colin Nish only needed to start warming up and they were on their feet giving him pelters. I am sure he has since stated that the abuse he got did affect his game as he was perhaps trying too hard to prove them wrong. Fans have to ask how they would feel if their son or brother was subjected to similar abuse and what effect it has on those around them as well as the players.

To balance this view I would add that the fare we are currently subjected to makes it very difficult to get excited enough to encourage the team. Not having a go at them but I feel that perhaps Section 43 has backfired in that there is very little spread around the ground of "noisy" folk. Its like being in a chirch where the choir sing so the congregation feel they don't have to. In addition we used to get a laugh and a bit of banter at the game but there isn't much of that going around either.

Sorry I don't know the answer but having a team on the park who actually look like they are trying would be a start. Players who lift the crowd aren't always the stars but the most committed in a Roy Aitken mould. None of them at Hibs just now.

Well better be off to hang myself just now this has got me so depressed

[DaveF]

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Says it all...


satisfied that we havent lost the game but a little dissapointed we didnt take full advantage of Hibs fragile state. Their supporters were on their backs almost from the word go, any pass that went remotely sideways would be met with instant discontent. They need to get their perspectives in better shape or they will carry on dragging the club down.

Are you seriously trying to tell me that those same Caley fans were never frustrated and berated their own team when they were relegated and playing pish football?

Easy to be smug and superior when you know your team are not absolute garbage.

[Kato]

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Are you seriously trying to tell me that those same Caley fans were never frustrated and berated their own team when they were relegated and playing pish football?

I'm not trying seriously or any other way to tell you that as I didn't say that. These forums are for people to read but there's far too much "reading into" sometimes.

It's a comment on a message board. The guy might be the worst fan in the world or an Uber-Ultra. I don't know but that's not the point. It's an outside view, seeing ourselves as others see us and all that - and he's got us to a tee.

Bottom line. Carping and booing at the players constantly doesn't help performances.

[DaveF]

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I'm not trying seriously or any other way to tell you that as I didn't say that. These forums are for people to read but there's far too much "reading into" sometimes.

It's a comment on a message board. The guy might be the worst fan in the world or an Uber-Ultra. I don't know but that's not the point. It's an outside view, seeing ourselves as others see us and all that - and he's got us to a tee.

Bottom line. Carping and booing at the players constantly doesn't help performances.

He's hardly Einstein when coming to that conclusion though is he? As I said in reply to Gogs yesterday, a support who have witnessed utter dross for more than 2 years, paying hard earned money to watch a 'team' who have hardly won at home during that time and the support are having a moan?

Not quite breaking news is it.