How crap is the EPL?!

[bingo70]

It's hardly a fair comparison though stevie, of course the premiership is going to be better, there's absolutely no reason any we should be anywhere near as good as them now so threads on here where its constant putting down our league in comparison to one of the richest leagues in the world are totally unhelpfull.

If you said you had a season ticket in the Irish league and that was much better id be more concerned.

As for the pricing issue, the reason for that is a massive tv deal that we don't have, if people think the standard is poor now and is driving people to watch football down south I'd hate to see the standard if ticket prices were cut and we had to pay even less to attract players and other clubs went part time.

[NAE NOOKIE]

Dont think you can call it crap overall to be honest, but I do think there are a fair number of crap matches played, just as there are in most leagues. Having said that a previous poster was right in as much as if you removed all of the overseas players the standard would drop fairly sharply, just look at how rubbish the English national team has been in tournaments over the years since the EPL started, no progress from pre EPL as far as I can see.

Comparing it to the SPL is totally unfair. I am willing to bet that the whole wages and transfer budget of the 10 SPL teams outwith the OF put together would barely match what the likes of Aston Villa or Newcastle spend in a season.

I think folk forget that its not bad going for a country of this size to have a full time professional league at all. In recent years it has been sad to see too many people who are supposed to have the games interests at heart grasping every opportunity to put it down. Nobody is pretending that the standard hasnt dropped over the last few years and that shouldnt be ignored. But IMHO if you are not part of the solution then you are part of the problem.


It seems to me that a lot of these critics dont have too many ideas about how to help Scottish football, but all the while make a living slagging it off.

Oops sorry !

[lapsedhibee]

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Seriously overrated.

Stoke v Villa ; eye bleeding stuff.

Stoke v. Anyone is eye bleeding stuff. Since Allardyce left Bolton and Coyle took over, Bolton are no longer the utterly brutal 'football' team to watch. Stoke are. Throw-ins. That's all they contribute. More than we can get right, certainly, but still utterly brutal.

Manchester C, Tottingham, Arsenal, though, not over-rated at all. Great to watch. Unless they're playing Stoke of course.

[bingo70]

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Dont think you can call it crap overall to be honest, but I do think there are a fair number of crap matches played, just as there are in most leagues. Having said that a previous poster was right in as much as if you removed all of the overseas players the standard would drop fairly sharply, just look at how rubbish the English national team has been in tournaments over the years since the EPL started, no progress from pre EPL as far as I can see.

Comparing it to the SPL is totally unfair. I am willing to bet that the whole wages and transfer budget of the 10 SPL teams outwith the OF put together would barely match what the likes of Aston Villa or Newcastle spend in a season.

I think folk forget that its not bad going for a country of this size to have a full time professional league at all. In recent years it has been sad to see too many people who are supposed to have the games interests at heart grasping every opportunity to put it down. Nobody is pretending that the standard hasnt dropped over the last few years and that shouldnt be ignored. But IMHO if you are not part of the solution then you are part of the problem.


It seems to me that a lot of these critics dont have too many ideas about how to help Scottish football, but all the while make a living slagging it off.

Oops sorry !

Absolutely spot on and if i could use smilies you'd be getting the wee 10/10 geezer.

Whenever there's a high scoring or open, exciting game in Scotland people laugh because the standard of defending is so bad but when the same happens in England people are absolutely creaming themselves about the 'best league in the world'.

This season i've seen Motherwell, St Mirren, Kilmarnock and Dundee united play some really good football at times and there's a real effort with these clubs to play the right way but no (or very little) credit gets given to these teams as it's all about how bad we are but IMO Scottish clubs are trying now to produce young players and try to play the right way, now with what we pay, the temptation for young players to go down south and the conditions we play in it won't always work but i genuinely think clubs are now trying to move forward in the right way, whereas from what i can see down south it's going the other way, teams are just spending more money and there's more and more to lose all the time so it's only going to get worse for the English national team as there's absolutely no depth to their talent beyond maybe a dozen or so up and coming players.

That said our league will never be as good as theres but we just need to get over that inferiority complex and start to look at what we've got without comparing it to another country with far more resources than what we've got.

[heretoday]

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Crap? One poor game between Stoke and Villa and suddenly it's crap? Jesus. Not every team can play like Barcelona.

If the Premier League in England is crap, unfortunately the swear filter won't allow me to post what I think the SPL is.

If the EPL is crap then La Liga is crap too. Both are considered the best leagues in the world. That makes the German and Italian leagues worse than crap.

So football is crap really!

[lapsedhibee]

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So football is crap really!

Not just football. Sport is crap! For example, sometimes in motor racing all the cars don't even make it to the finish line!

[Albion Hibs]

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Seriously overrated.

Stoke v Villa ; eye bleeding stuff.

I would agreed completly. It has to be the most overrated league in the world. None of the top teams in the EPL have a chance against the top two in spain, and perhaps even germany.

Unfortunatly due to its proximity to us far too many people just live for looking over the fence in admiration. As a result our game is dying because people would rather sit and watch a team they have no interest or passion for. The sad but none the less current truth.

[greenlex]

Just watched Sheffield Utd V Notts County.
it wasn't Barcelona by any means but what a cracking last 20 mins or so.

Swansea V QPR next. I can hardly wait!!!

[heretoday]

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Not just football. Sport is crap! For example, sometimes in motor racing all the cars don't even make it to the finish line!

Really? That's bad value for the spectator. They go too damn fast is the trouble.

There should be speed limits on race tracks as on normal roads. I think 60 mph would be reasonable.

[Stonewall]

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It's hardly a fair comparison though stevie, of course the premiership is going to be better, there's absolutely no reason any we should be anywhere near as good as them now so threads on here where its constant putting down our league in comparison to one of the richest leagues in the world are totally unhelpfull.

If you said you had a season ticket in the Irish league and that was much better id be more concerned.

As for the pricing issue, the reason for that is a massive tv deal that we don't have, if people think the standard is poor now and is driving people to watch football down south I'd hate to see the standard if ticket prices were cut and we had to pay even less to attract players and other clubs went part time.

Yes but maybe the real question is whether the standard of the SPL is as good as it should be.

[bingo70]

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Yes but maybe the real question is whether the standard of the SPL is as good as it should be.

no its not and i think everyone recognises that and is trying to make it better but 10-20 years of miss-management isnt going to be fixed over night.

i watched the under 19 derby and was really impressed by both teams desire to play football and the technical ability of both teams but it'll take time for that to transfer to the first teams but teams are definately trying to do the right things now to develop the players correctly and to entertain the fans, compare that to down south where the most competitive teams are going to be the ones that bring in the best foreigners i think English football will be in a really bad way in 5-10 years time.

IMO the baw down south might no be burst but it's definately got a slow puncture

[smurf]

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It's hardly a fair comparison though stevie, of course the premiership is going to be better, there's absolutely no reason any we should be anywhere near as good as them now so threads on here where its constant putting down our league in comparison to one of the richest leagues in the world are totally unhelpfull.

If you said you had a season ticket in the Irish league and that was much better id be more concerned.

As for the pricing issue, the reason for that is a massive tv deal that we don't have, if people think the standard is poor now and is driving people to watch football down south I'd hate to see the standard if ticket prices were cut and we had to pay even less to attract players and other clubs went part time.

The issue for me isn't just the quality. It's the total lack of excitement. The last exciting game i watched at ER was Scotland under 21's.

[TheEastTerrace]

Doesn't matter if it's EPL, La Liga, Bundesliga or any league in Europe - once Platini's financial fair play rules come fully into effect, all the top leagues will become a snorefest like the SPL.

[CallumHibs07]

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I would agreed completly. It has to be the most overrated league in the world. None of the top teams in the EPL have a chance against the top two in spain, and perhaps even germany.

Do me a favour. The Bundesliga is pish

[TheEastTerrace]

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Do me a favour. The Bundesliga is pish

Nonsense. Explain why it is pish?

From where I sit, the Germans have a very competitive league, top attendances, financially stable clubs and some of the best up and coming international players in the world.

It's certainly not pish.

[CallumHibs07]

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Nonsense. Explain why it is pish?

From where I sit, the Germans have a very competitive league, top attendances, financially stable clubs and some of the best up and coming international players in the world.

It's certainly not pish.

Bayern are the only decent team. I don't rate anyone else. There may be goals and high crowds but the standard is very poor. To say that no English team could beat the top German teams is nonsense, and was proved untrue recently. The Premier League is miles better.

[TheEastTerrace]

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Bayern are the only decent team. I don't rate anyone else. There may be goals and high crowds but the standard is very poor. To say that no English team could beat the top German teams is nonsense, and was proved untrue recently. The Premier League is miles better.

Wasn't me who said that but I know who my money is on if Bayern get Chelsea or Arsenal in the Champions League this season.

The Bundesliga is rated third in the UEFA co-efficient list so the standard can't be very poor. What would you say of Serie A, Ligue 1 or the Eridivisie?

I'm not debating the EPL is inferior by the way but the Bundesliga is certainly not scaling the footballing depths to the abyss.

[CallumHibs07]

I know it wasn't you mate, I was just replying to your post. If Bayern faced Chelsea or Arsenal I would back Bayern aswell. However I would also back either Manchester club against them. Like I said, I rate Bayern but Dortmund, Schalke, Bremen etc are average at best IMO. The 3 other leagues you mentioned are not any better but I enjoy watching Serie A. Whether the standard of that league is better than Bundesliga is a different matter though.

[hfc rd]

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion but to say the EPL is crap simply bewilders me. Yes the Stoke City vs Aston Villa game was boring but that doesn't mean that the whole league is rubbish. Would you guys say the same if Hibs were asked to join the EPL? I really doubt it. We would all be begging Farmer and Petrie to accept it. Look at some of the SPL games that have been brodcasted live on SKY and ESPN or the matches that BBC Alba show. Those games can make you lose interest and at times it is like watching paint dry. Most clubs know that without the ugly sisters their is hardly any income in Scottish football as attendances are dopping fast and that it is basically as dead as Irish football. It's only once in a blue moon they show a game that doesn't have the Old Firm involved and that is simply because who is going to watch something like Inverness vs Dunfermline or Aberdeen vs Hearts? Not many folk I reckon. Only the Edinburgh derby looks the most appealing game outside the Old Firm to watch.

I'm a Manchester United season ticket holder. I can't attend all the games as petrol money is crazy these days and I am too lazy to catch a train. But the games that I have been able to make really excite me and always have me on the edge of my seat as the standard and excitement and also the athmosphere is amazing. I really can't remember the last time I witnessed that at Easter Road or anywhere else in Scotland.

[Albion Hibs]

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Bayern are the only decent team. I don't rate anyone else. There may be goals and high crowds but the standard is very poor. To say that no English team could beat the top German teams is nonsense, and was proved untrue recently. The Premier League is miles better.

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I know it wasn't you mate, I was just replying to your post. If Bayern faced Chelsea or Arsenal I would back Bayern aswell. However I would also back either Manchester club against them. Like I said, I rate Bayern but Dortmund, Schalke, Bremen etc are average at best IMO. The 3 other leagues you mentioned are not any better but I enjoy watching Serie A. Whether the standard of that league is better than Bundesliga is a different matter though.

I did not say anywhere that NO english team could beat the top german team. However, from memory City's win against Bayern came against a reserve team as they pulled about 5 players to prepare for their next league game. In any event Bayern progressed from the group and city went out, as good a measure as any as to how they shape up. The german clubs have as many teams remaining in the CL as EPL teams, and from memory they had less teams in it, or qualifying than english teams.

Sky is packed out each week with EPL games, once every few weeks there is a game between two teams which the general public will be interested in but for me I have no real interest in that league. Whilst the standard, crowds etc are better, I would rather watch a game from our own league. I appreciate that is down to preference, but come the end of the major european competition I would not expect to see a team from the EPL.

[CallumHibs07]

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I did not say anywhere that NO english team could beat the top german team. However, from memory City's win against Bayern came against a reserve team as they pulled about 5 players to prepare for their next league game. In any event Bayern progressed from the group and city went out, as good a measure as any as to how they shape up. The german clubs have as many teams remaining in the CL as EPL teams, and from memory they had less teams in it, or qualifying than english teams.

Sky is packed out each week with EPL games, once every few weeks there is a game between two teams which the general public will be interested in but for me I have no real interest in that league. Whilst the standard, crowds etc are better, I would rather watch a game from our own league. I appreciate that is down to preference, but come the end of the major european competition I would not expect to see a team from the EPL.

You said that none of the top English teams could beat the top German teams, so I'm guessing that none of the crapper English teams could either? Anyway, Bayern is the only team you can argue a case for. Recently we saw Dortmund get 1 point out of 6 against a pretty poor Arsenal side (as far as poor Arsenal teams go). This season has been bad for English teams in Europe with both Manc clubs knocked out at the group stages, but why would you not expect an English team to be at the end of major European competitions when they are often there, in 2007, 2008 and 2009 three of the four semi finalists were English teams!

[Albion Hibs]

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You said that none of the top English teams could beat the top German teams, so I'm guessing that none of the crapper English teams could either? Anyway, Bayern is the only team you can argue a case for. Recently we saw Dortmund get 1 point out of 6 against a pretty poor Arsenal side (as far as poor Arsenal teams go). This season has been bad for English teams in Europe with both Manc clubs knocked out at the group stages, but why would you not expect an English team to be at the end of major European competitions when they are often there, in 2007, 2008 and 2009 three of the four semi finalists were English teams!

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I would agreed completly. It has to be the most overrated league in the world. None of the top teams in the EPL have a chance against the top two in spain, and perhaps even germany.

Unfortunatly due to its proximity to us far too many people just live for looking over the fence in admiration. As a result our game is dying because people would rather sit and watch a team they have no interest or passion for. The sad but none the less current truth.

I have included my original comment for the avoidance of doubt, the key word being "perhaps" which you seem to have ignored, and in any event I would probably stand by it.

Regardless my comment was not on the german league it was about the overrated EPL, which is my view 100%.

How EPL teams have performed in the past is irrelevant, if we had this debate 3 months ago you would have thought based on your arguement that they would all still be in there, just because they have been previously - and they are not. As they say football is a funny old game.

[Mikeystewart]

This thread is insane, When they say its the best league in the world I do not think they are referring to the quality of games, they are talking about the players that play in it.

What happens when good strikers play against equally good defenders? The answer is they cancel each other out. If you want an entertaining league then yes I would say the SPl is better in the sense that generally speaking clubs from 3rd down to 12th have a good chance of beating each other, whereas in the EPl it tends to split off into top 4, top middle, bottom middle and then the rest at the bottom who tend to be equally as woeful. But they are woeful in comparison to the teams they play against. Would Blackburn be bottom of the SPL? not a chance!

I will always put the SPl first as it is my domestic league with my local team playing in it. That does not mean I cannot enjoy other leagues like the Premiership, LaLiga, Bundesliga etc.

If you "REALLY" enjoy football, you will enjoy even the most scrappy and competitive of matches, each is unique. Depends what sort of fan you are I guess, totally subjective.

[Stonewall]

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no its not and i think everyone recognises that and is trying to make it better but 10-20 years of miss-management isnt going to be fixed over night.

i watched the under 19 derby and was really impressed by both teams desire to play football and the technical ability of both teams but it'll take time for that to transfer to the first teams but teams are definately trying to do the right things now to develop the players correctly and to entertain the fans, compare that to down south where the most competitive teams are going to be the ones that bring in the best foreigners i think English football will be in a really bad way in 5-10 years time.

IMO the baw down south might no be burst but it's definately got a slow puncture

The problem with this is that the structure and culture of the game in Scotland conspires to prevent these guys from breaking through into the first team.

[JimBHibees]

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Absolutely spot on and if i could use smilies you'd be getting the wee 10/10 geezer.

Whenever there's a high scoring or open, exciting game in Scotland people laugh because the standard of defending is so bad but when the same happens in England people are absolutely creaming themselves about the 'best league in the world'.

This season i've seen Motherwell, St Mirren, Kilmarnock and Dundee united play some really good football at times and there's a real effort with these clubs to play the right way but no (or very little) credit gets given to these teams as it's all about how bad we are but IMO Scottish clubs are trying now to produce young players and try to play the right way, now with what we pay, the temptation for young players to go down south and the conditions we play in it won't always work but i genuinely think clubs are now trying to move forward in the right way, whereas from what i can see down south it's going the other way, teams are just spending more money and there's more and more to lose all the time so it's only going to get worse for the English national team as there's absolutely no depth to their talent beyond maybe a dozen or so up and coming players.

That said our league will never be as good as theres but we just need to get over that inferiority complex and start to look at what we've got without comparing it to another country with far more resources than what we've got.

Completely agree I think there are a few teams who dont have big budgets who do play the game the right way and are good to watch. We do down our game too much alot of which isnt helped by the Weedge controlled tabloids who do the Scottish game down to try and get the OF out of the league.

As per the opening post their are alot of very poor EPL teams who are dominated by physique and athleticism and play is very simple.

[StevieC]

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It's hardly a fair comparison though stevie, of course the premiership is going to be better, there's absolutely no reason any we should be anywhere near as good as them now so threads on here where its constant putting down our league in comparison to one of the richest leagues in the world are totally unhelpfull.

Not really what I was saying. I was just responding to the post that said the EPL was crap .. it isn't.
I don't think I was putting down the SPL either, I did say that I was at Easter Road every game and that Hibs were my first choice.

In response to the post that said a number of EPL teams are mostly strength and athleticism, that might be true but you will also find quality ball players in there as well that can turn a game and their ability is worth watching. Even looking at your Wigan, Bolton, Wolves, Fulham, etc. you will always find one or two "stand-out" players.

I've watched Newcastle get beat in their last two games and yet seen some excellent football in both. Swansea were the physical, fit team that came for a draw but still got the ball on the deck and played a good passing game when in possession. The West Brom game was end to end stuff, brilliant game for the nuetrals, and 5 goals. Point being, 2 teams in the lower half of the table yet still two very watchable games. Certainly not the pish the OP was suggesting.

[--------]

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Completely agree I think there are a few teams who dont have big budgets who do play the game the right way and are good to watch. We do down our game too much alot of which isnt helped by the Weedge controlled tabloids who do the Scottish game down to try and get the OF out of the league.

As per the opening post their are alot of very poor EPL teams who are dominated by physique and athleticism and play is very simple.

The standard in the EPL has been deteriorating for some time now. Sure, the top teams still produce good football, but the league has a growing tail of very mediocre sides indeed.

The OP didn't suggest that the EPL is inferior to the SPL. He just said that it's seriously over-rated, which it is. It's getting worse, too.

IMO the day isn't far off when the top three or four clubs in the EPL star making OF-type noises about setting up a 'proper' European Super League becuase the Wigans and Stokes and Sunderlands are 'holding them back'.

[StevieC]

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The OP didn't suggest that the EPL is inferior to the SPL. He just said that it's seriously over-rated, which it is.

He said it was "crap", which it isn't.

[--------]

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He said it was "crap", which it isn't.

The ten minutes I watched of last night's game were. And a lot of games I've started watching and then switched off have been.




And he asked "How crap is it?"

That's not saying it's all crap. That's asking a question.

[Barney McGrew]

I don't think the EPL is crap, but it's certainly way,way overrated.

It's the same as virtually any league in Europe now - there's a handful of teams that can win it, due to them having better finance than most of the other teams. You then get a whole load of also rans fighting it out below them.

The big difference in the EPL is that you have Sky hyping it up like it's unmissable when in the main, most games are pretty average if the top four aren't involved.