Kilmarnock

**IanM** · 15-08-2011 09:43 AM

I thought they were very well organized yesterday - shows what you can do with the right mix of youth and experience.. shocker of a miss at the end though! i was almost willing it in so i could rant a bit more this morning but having slept on the game we'll come good once we have o'hanlon back, palsson in midfield and 2 up front but credit to Kilmarnock, showed what a bit of belief can do

***R'Albin*** · 15-08-2011 09:48 AM

Originally Posted by goofter

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I thought they were very well organized yesterday - shows what you can do with the right mix of youth and experience.. shocker of a miss at the end though! i was almost willing it in so i could rant a bit more this morning but having slept on the game we'll come good once we have o'hanlon back, palsson in midfield and 2 up front but credit to Kilmarnock, showed what a bit of belief can do

They played a very dangerous game though, some of their passing in the first half was very slack, we definately needed to put more pressure on their back 4.

That Dayton looks like he could be a good player though

***blackpoolhibs*** · 15-08-2011 11:21 AM

Originally Posted by R'Albin

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They played a very dangerous game though, some of their passing in the first half was very slack, we definately needed to put more pressure on their back 4.

That Dayton looks like he could be a good player though

I'd agree with that, although the players we played in midfield are not players who press far up the park. Stevenson and Murray are too frightened to push on in case they have to track back when the ball is lost. Thornhill was he playing?

Wotherspoon is playing on memory, and Sproule will chase all day, but we really need his attacking abilities to be utilised too, not have him chasing shadows all day wasting that energy.

One up front gives their back 4 all day to pick a pass, or play the ball between them.

Anyone else find it strange a new manager can come in at Killie and seem to get them to gel so quickly, and have a pattern of play set out between a new set of players that seems to work, or was it only because they were playing Hibs they looked so good yeterday?

**truehibernian** · 15-08-2011 11:27 AM

Good side, play with width which I always like seeing, but in truth we allowed them to play with our unintelligent football and lack of invention.

They lost cheap possession in dangerous areas, yet we were unable to exploit (other than the well taken goal from GOC) because we at times only had Garry in the box. The gap between our midfield and defence was too great (leadership is key there).........our defenders were sitting too deep. Stacky should have been encouraging our backline way up the pitch to condense the area in their half. But the gap was exposed time and time again because players like Nid, Stevenson and Wotherspoon simply don't have the pace to both attack and then drop back quickly and defend when we lose the ball.

As I said in earlier threads, really surprised we went with this 4-2-3-1 (or 4-5-1) when we knew Killie were going 4-3-3 with two wide men. We played narrow yet again, they got the ball out wide all the time thus negating our midfield. In short, Shiels got his tactics bang on, CC didn't.

***whiskyhibby*** · 15-08-2011 11:32 AM

Originally Posted by goofter

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I thought they were very well organized yesterday - shows what you can do with the right mix of youth and experience.. shocker of a miss at the end though! i was almost willing it in so i could rant a bit more this morning but having slept on the game we'll come good once we have o'hanlon back, palsson in midfield and 2 up front but credit to Kilmarnock, showed what a bit of belief can do

Having just watched the highlights I have to say that Killie have some great forward players and are going to be top 6 if they play like that most weeks

***Andy74*** · 15-08-2011 12:13 PM

Originally Posted by truehibernian

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Good side, play with width which I always like seeing, but in truth we allowed them to play with our unintelligent football and lack of invention.

They lost cheap possession in dangerous areas, yet we were unable to exploit (other than the well taken goal from GOC) because we at times only had Garry in the box. The gap between our midfield and defence was too great (leadership is key there).........our defenders were sitting too deep. Stacky should have been encouraging our backline way up the pitch to condense the area in their half. But the gap was exposed time and time again because players like Nid, Stevenson and Wotherspoon simply don't have the pace to both attack and then drop back quickly and defend when we lose the ball.

As I said in earlier threads, really surprised we went with this 4-2-3-1 (or 4-5-1) when we knew Killie were going 4-3-3 with two wide men. We played narrow yet again, they got the ball out wide all the time thus negating our midfield. In short, Shiels got his tactics bang on, CC didn't.

First win since March and the first win for the manager. Anyone needing a win just needs to play Hibs.

Nearly a year on from CC coming in, a whole team signed and getting done 4-1 by a team who haven't won since March and have lost 3 or 4 of their best players.

A good lesson indeed.

***Speedway*** · 15-08-2011 12:18 PM

Originally Posted by blackpoolhibs

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I'd agree with that, although the players we played in midfield are not players who press far up the park. Stevenson and Murray are too frightened to push on in case they have to track back when the ball is lost. Thornhill was he playing?

Wotherspoon is playing on memory, and Sproule will chase all day, but we really need his attacking abilities to be utilised too, not have him chasing shadows all day wasting that energy.

One up front gives their back 4 all day to pick a pass, or play the ball between them.

Anyone else find it strange a new manager can come in at Killie and seem to get them to gel so quickly, and have a pattern of play set out between a new set of players that seems to work, or was it only because they were playing Hibs they looked so good yeterday?

It was his first win in 11, in fact his first win ever. We'd already won this season against a manager who hasn't had to bed in so many players but is still touted for the Hibs job.

***blackpoolhibs*** · 15-08-2011 12:24 PM

Originally Posted by Speedway

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It was his first win in 11, in fact his first win ever. We'd already won this season against a manager who hasn't had to bed in so many players but is still touted for the Hibs job.

So it is just playing Hibs that guarantee's a struggling side the 3 points then.

**truehibernian** · 15-08-2011 12:29 PM

Originally Posted by Andy74

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First win since March and the first win for the manager. Anyone needing a win just needs to play Hibs.

Nearly a year on from CC coming in, a whole team signed and getting done 4-1 by a team who haven't won since March and have lost 3 or 4 of their best players.

A good lesson indeed.

But conversely andy, CC got our first win at Caley in 11 (IIRC), also our first win at Ibrox for a good wee while, and stopped the run of defeats v Hearts (albeit a draw).

Calderwood for me got the formation all wrong yesterday, but you can always argue that you don't want to change a winning side. Once you see the team sheets it must have been clear that Killie would go 4-3-3 and play the extremities of the pitch. That said, it's not CC's fault that neither Stephens or Hanlon couldn't deal with a simple ball over the top, nor have Boothy and Stevenson cut out a simple cross into the box.

The team needs experience...........O'Hanlon and Stack will give us that at the back, GOC and Ivan up top. The midfield area needs it IMHO, as Nid is going to be found out quite a lot purely for pace. He has had a decent start to the season, but him and Stevenson together.......it's just not happening for me.

Very bad day at the office, third goal killed the game stone dead. Onwards and upwards but definitely no need to panic. It was a day that half the team never turned up.........that for me is not CC's fault. His subs also made a difference (for me) so he does know how to change things.

***Cropley10*** · 15-08-2011 12:35 PM

Originally Posted by truehibernian

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But conversely andy, CC got our first win at Caley in 11 (IIRC), also our first win at Ibrox for a good wee while, and stopped the run of defeats v Hearts (albeit a draw).

Calderwood for me got the formation all wrong yesterday, but you can always argue that you don't want to change a winning side. Once you see the team sheets it must have been clear that Killie would go 4-3-3 and play the extremities of the pitch. That said, it's not CC's fault that neither Stephens or Hanlon couldn't deal with a simple ball over the top, nor have Boothy and Stevenson cut out a simple cross into the box.

The team needs experience...........O'Hanlon and Stack will give us that at the back, GOC and Ivan up top. The midfield area needs it IMHO, as Nid is going to be found out quite a lot purely for pace. He has had a decent start to the season, but him and Stevenson together.......it's just not happening for me.

Very bad day at the office, third goal killed the game stone dead. Onwards and upwards but definitely no need to panic. It was a day that half the team never turned up.........that for me is not CC's fault. His subs also made a difference (for me) so he does know how to change things.

We've had a few games now - before and since the split, where we've not 'turned up' - is it becoming a habit?

As for Ivan - yeah he's experienced - but is he any good. Reports and comments from people I've spoken to who were there would suggest he had another ineffectual game....

**Dinkydoo** · 15-08-2011 12:46 PM

Originally Posted by Cropley10

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As for Ivan - yeah he's experienced - but is he any good. Reports and comments from people I've spoken to who were there would suggest he had another ineffectual game....

I wasn't at the game although I did watch it on ESPN and thought Ivan looked like the most likley player in the side to create a chance. He managed to get past his man a few times to deliver a decent cross into the box and seemed to be the most willing to drive forward with the ball.

The problem is that he and O'Connor can only be in one place at once and we need the players around them to start playing if we are to begin winning most weeks.

On the back of yesterdays performance CC really needs to play two strikers from the start and have Osbourne in the middle of the pitch for some well needed solidarity - ignoring the issues with the inexperienced back four that is.

***cabbageandribs1875*** · 15-08-2011 02:02 PM

Originally Posted by blackpoolhibs

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or was it only because they were playing Hibs they looked so good yeterday?

this, aberdeen have pencilled-in the game against us on 11th sept as the game to break their goal drought.

**keekaboo** · 15-08-2011 03:03 PM

Originally Posted by blackpoolhibs

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.....was it only because they were playing Hibs they looked so good yeterday?

Hibs tried to play this kind of football a few seasons ago but it didn't work in the long run, because other teams weren't willing to sit back and admire them. That seems to be what Hibs did with Killie yesterday.

***PatHead*** · 15-08-2011 03:10 PM

Watched the game on ESPN which I know doesn't give me the full picture or allow me to be an expert. I would say that at half time I still expected us to have a chance of winning the game. Their winger Dayton didn't kick a ball until he skinned Booth and got the own goal, after that he was unplayable for about 20 minutes and, to me, was the main difference between the sides. Believe it or not I thought there were a couple of positives until the 3rd goal and we were the better team just after half time up until their goal. These were Osbourne getting game time, Stack made a few good saves, Garry's goal, Paulson not getting ripped for ar@# paper in the second half. Biggest downs were not making their goalkeeper work hard enough and being far too closet up front which played into their centre halves' hands.

Kilmarnock reminded me a lot of Hibs in early Yogi days when the goalie had to pass the ball out and it got us into more trouble than creating things. Once the pitches start to get heavy they will struggle and I would be most surprised if we don't finish the season above them. Still think we will finish fifth. Here's hoping anyway.

**~~PC Stamp~~** · 15-08-2011 06:55 PM

The boy Dayton is 23 and has played around 20 senior games in his career ... 12 for Killie and the rest in lower and non league English football. He was on the verge of quitting the game when Killie signed him. He then spent most of last season out injured with a cruciate injury. Despite that he ran the show yesterday. Is he a quality player that needed a platform or an indication of our shortcomings that allowed him to run the show? Be interesting to see how he develops this season.

***Billy Whizz*** · 15-08-2011 09:24 PM

We used to play the ball out from the back when Mowbray/Collins was the Manager.
We should have gone for Pasquali in the window. He's what we need at the back

**vanNISHtelroy** · 16-08-2011 08:39 AM

Its PASCALI!!!!!!

Just saying cos it really annoys me when commentators pronounce it Pasquale. Although there is some discussion over whether it is a "hard or soft" C sound in Italian - very interesting

.

Although he is happy with it being pronounced Paskali as far as I know!

**bawheid** · 16-08-2011 08:50 AM

Originally Posted by blackpoolhibs

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Anyone else find it strange a new manager can come in at Killie and seem to get them to gel so quickly, and have a pattern of play set out between a new set of players that seems to work, or was it only because they were playing Hibs they looked so good yeterday?

Eh?? A new manager?? Shiels has been there for 14 months, firstly as assistant to Mixu and then as manager.

He's had ages to establish their pattern of play, and that's one of the reasons Michael Johnston gave for hiring him.

**vanNISHtelroy** · 16-08-2011 10:14 AM

Think the fact we wouldn't have to pay compensation as well, meant that he wasn't going to get anyone else in!

**vanNISHtelroy** · 16-08-2011 11:08 AM

Just when it looked like the balance of our team looked good with Dayton---Harkins---Silva behind the striker....Silva has done his medial ligaments and will be out for two months!

***blackpoolhibs*** · 16-08-2011 11:51 AM

Originally Posted by bawheid

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Eh?? A new manager?? Shiels has been there for 14 months, firstly as assistant to Mixu and then as manager.

He's had ages to establish their pattern of play, and that's one of the reasons Michael Johnston gave for hiring him.

How much longer has he been in charge of Kilmarnock than Calderwood has at Hibs? How many players has he brought in at rugby park?

Who's team pumped who 4-1 going on 7?

**smurf** · 16-08-2011 12:04 PM

I listened to the radio pundits raving about Kilmarnock on the opening day v Motherwell IIRC. The way Kilmarnock played shouldn't have surprised us or indeed our manager.

Amazing to think only a few weeks ago the Kilmarnock supporters spokespeoples were calling for their chairman out the door as they had so few players and no confirmed manager.

Kind of troubles the mind as to where we are...

**bawheid** · 16-08-2011 12:18 PM

Originally Posted by blackpoolhibs

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How much longer has he been in charge of Kilmarnock than Calderwood has at Hibs? How many players has he brought in at rugby park?

Who's team pumped who 4-1 going on 7?

He's been at Kilmarnock since June 2010. He's been in charge for five months and Sunday was his first victory.

Your post before last seemed to laud him as a fabulous "new manager" who had managed to get his team to gel so quickly. Given he's been there over a year, that's nonsense.

John Hughes' Hibs lost 3-1 at Kilmarnock in the league cup. We also lost 4-1 at Hamilton.
Mixu's Hibs lost 4-2 at Kilmarnock.
John Collins' Hibs lost 3-0 at Inverness.
Mowbray's Hibs lost 3-1 at Kilmarnock.

These results are typical of Hibs no matter who the manager has been. Perhaps rather than trying to hound yet another one out of the door, we should let one have a go at building something?

**vanNISHtelroy** · 16-08-2011 12:18 PM

Originally Posted by smurf

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I listened to the radio pundits raving about Kilmarnock on the opening day v Motherwell IIRC. The way Kilmarnock played shouldn't have surprised us or indeed our manager.

Amazing to think only a few weeks ago the Kilmarnock supporters spokespeoples were calling for their chairman out the door as they had so few players and no confirmed manager.

Kind of troubles the mind as to where we are...

Weren't the only reasons and although thats now sorted I think the majority would still want rid of him if it was possible.

**bawheid** · 16-08-2011 12:19 PM

Originally Posted by smurf

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i listened to the radio pundits raving about kilmarnock on the opening day v motherwell iirc. The way kilmarnock played shouldn't have surprised us or indeed our manager.

Amazing to think only a few weeks ago the kilmarnock supporters spokespeoples were calling for their chairman out the door as they had so few players and no confirmed manager.

kind of troubles the mind as to where we are...

p3 w1 d0 l2

***blackpoolhibs*** · 16-08-2011 12:47 PM

Originally Posted by bawheid

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He's been at Kilmarnock since June 2010. He's been in charge for five months and Sunday was his first victory.

Your post before last seemed to laud him as a fabulous "new manager" who had managed to get his team to gel so quickly. Given he's been there over a year, that's nonsense.

John Hughes' Hibs lost 3-1 at Kilmarnock in the league cup. We also lost 4-1 at Hamilton.
Mixu's Hibs lost 4-2 at Kilmarnock.
John Collins' Hibs lost 3-0 at Inverness.
Mowbray's Hibs lost 3-1 at Kilmarnock.

These results are typical of Hibs no matter who the manager has been. Perhaps rather than trying to hound yet another one out of the door, we should let one have a go at building something?

I dont want typical Hibs, i want better than that. Accepting mediocrity seems to be what you are asking, never.

The least i'd expect from him after what is it 11 months, is organization? None obvious to me. The least i'd expect from him after 11 months is the players to have desire, none obvious to me. The least i'd expect after 11 months in charge is progress, none again obvious to me.

When Calderwood shows any kind of managerial ability, when he picks players in the right positions and that team show desire and ability enough that we actually look like a football team, then and only then will he win me over.

Until such times, to me he's another of Petries duffers. He's another i believe will be paid off in due course.

**bawheid** · 16-08-2011 01:16 PM

Originally Posted by blackpoolhibs

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The least i'd expect from him after what is it 11 months, is organization? None obvious to me. The least i'd expect from him after 11 months is the players to have desire, none obvious to me. The least i'd expect after 11 months in charge is progress, none again obvious to me.

Calderwood has only been in charge for ten months. Give it another month...