Andy I don't think the money we got for those players was wonderful, selling O'Connor, the timing was poor & 1.6m wasn't that impressive, considering a season in Russia brought a 1.3M profit for the Eastern Europeans.This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
It was John Collins who put his foot down regarding price & fair enough Petrie backed him, but again I don't think there was one player who went for an overly inflated price, that accolade belongs to the jambo's, who held out & got 9M for spotty, Hibs had to sell Brown, Thomson, Whit's & Murphy to achieve that.
With regard to the difficult decisions, how on earth can you say it was successful. We have gone from a support with a very high feel good factor & brilliant football to watch & record amounts of tangible income, to where we are now, dire football & haemorrhaging money!!
Results 61 to 89 of 89
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30-06-2011 05:40 PM #61
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30-06-2011 08:12 PM #62
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At the end of the day we had a good group of players, we grew them, used them and sold them to extract value and put it back into the cycle of Hibernian football club.
To think they would still be there now is crazy, I do not believe any of them would have remained beyond there existing contract, we would therefore still have debt, be training on public parks, and have the old east stand. People are entitled to their own views, in my own view it is crazy to rattle on about "what if we still had" "we should not have sold" etc.
I go back to my original question which of the clubs you noted originally have achieved what we have on and off the field?
Further to the above how many of these clubs and fans do you think would change places with us if they could?
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30-06-2011 08:13 PM #63
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It should always be the aim but its never happened in our history. The suggestion was that it may be easily achieved with the right product was on the park or the right people in charge.
It wont because there has been much much better product and it didnt happen then.
While it should always be the aim history tells us its not worth gambling on.
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30-06-2011 09:33 PM #64This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
Yes, you're right - let's just pack up and go home.
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30-06-2011 09:33 PM #65This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
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30-06-2011 09:35 PM #66This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
We will always and will always have to sell players - regardless of the Board's soundbites 'that we do not need to sell' .. We do. Our operating losses mean we do.
Why do we have operating losses - because on the park it is not good enough .. The last time it was, under JC, we traded at a profit .. Proof that on field success means off field success. The converse is not true!
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30-06-2011 09:36 PM #67
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30-06-2011 09:39 PM #68
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Think it's time for Petrie to hang up the tache and see if we can't stop making the football side look so difficult.
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30-06-2011 09:43 PM #69This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
We were Scotland's no. 1 underachievers pre-RP and we still are .. The acid test for me.
The impact of all this underachievement - falling STs/crowds.
There is no upward spiral just ever decreasing circles .. Time for change - and it should be from the top down..Last edited by IWasThere2016; 30-06-2011 at 09:47 PM.
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30-06-2011 09:50 PM #70This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
Many came back during the mid-naughties with the combined efforts of SUABC & more influentially, TM's team & footballing philosophy & the affect produced record amounts of tangible income for the club. We [as a club] clearly had learned after the abject failure to cash in during McLeish's reign.
It didn't last though, as the sexy football gave way to the dire performances of recent seasons.
The gamble has already been taken with the East Stand built [incurring more debt, but justified in my opinion] & a larger ground capacity & like I've been maintaining, the real difficult job for the board is to keep on producing teams to use that capacity & then we truly say that the board have done an exceptional job.
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30-06-2011 11:57 PM #71
The fact is with all this "progress", we've been in decline.
We have less debt than ever before...and less points to show for it.
It's been said too many times. This beautiful stadium, training ground and general infrastructure is all meaningless if it produces the sum total of **** all. I class 10th place, 11 points of the bottom and losing to the worst teams in the league as the sum total of **** all by the way, for the avoidance of all doubt.
I call losing to dross and exiting the cups in a humiliating fashion achieving the sum total of **** all.
Its just, not, good enough.
So why pretend it is?
Show me someone who accepts losing and I will show you a loser. If the aim of the game is not to win, then what is the ****ing point, ma lord?
Indeed. All the crap that goes around it is just that. What REALLY matters, before crowds drop, merchandise isnt sold and subsequently sold at half price and we go backwards is football. The key. The word not often used in this debate.
Football.
Not all the other stuff. What MATTERS, to 99.9% of punters going to the game is FOOTBALL. Patience is a wonderful thing. It has however, been exhausted for many...
Next season MUST be a return to good fitba, good results and some frickin progress. Otherwise, I predict, a riot.
No more excuses. No more "transition" or "development" periods. Results. Improvement and progress.
ENDOF
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01-07-2011 06:12 AM #72
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01-07-2011 06:21 AM #73
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What you are saying is not wrong but we didnt fill the stadium bi-weekly under Turnbull and we didnt fill it with the famous five. Different times and different criteria and you could argue both points all night but that is the reality.
Scottish Football is a shrinking market place and the gulf vetween the top two and the rest is huge, probably larger, or at least as large, as anywhere else. We will have occassional days and occassional good teams, like we have had all my life but thats it.
While we should always be trying to improve we are, imo, doing it the right way in taking small measured steps. History is against us though.
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01-07-2011 06:31 AM #74This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
Last edited by IWasThere2016; 01-07-2011 at 06:37 AM.
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01-07-2011 06:39 AM #75
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I do think though if the stadium was the other way round and the East had been built first, or the flats had never been built, then the new stand would not be built yet. A number of factors conspired against us and kind of forced the issue.
If that makes any sense?
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01-07-2011 08:11 AM #76This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
Hibs best attendance [not biggest] was against East Fife, when 17k turned up five days after the 7-0 game, however, this also was the beginning of the end of the TT's, our next match saw a 0-1 reverse at Dundee Utd as injuries & suspensions saw the decline that ended up with us third & rapidly exited from the two remaining cup competitions, therefore, just like the team, crowd wise, we were left to ponder what might have been.
What you are saying is defeatist, Hibs are one of the top teams in the land & yes, who have a history of woeful underachieving, but all too often this has been caused by the dreadful way we have been run.
The Hibs board have said they want to aim to regularly qualify for Europe & challenge for cups, rightly so, with a club of Hibs status, it shouldn't be any other way. The team in the middle of the 00's proved people would come & spend money on Hibs, if the product was right and sold properly, it shows it can be done.
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01-07-2011 09:37 AM #77
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The question is do we have leadership - there can be no doubt that are club has a clearer vision of were it wants to be and is consistantly making choices and decisions to get us there. I would go as far as to say the have a clear view and leadership path than any other club in the league.
I believe our club has taken a longer term view...rome was not built in a day and all that. They have invested in something that we as Hibs fans will always have and in doing so ensuring that we have a sound financial footing to invest in the changable part of the club - the playing side.
I am not interested in players that we have sold and what they could or could not have done. We have what we have now and I would not change that for the sake of being able to look at Thomson and Brown play every week for the balance of their original contracts.
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01-07-2011 12:20 PM #78
I notice that Smurf, having started this thread, is now plainly failing to lead the discussion and put his stamp of authority on it's outcomes.
As one of the highest earners on .net, what exactly is he doing to justify his membership here?
Yet again, we see that this thread has turned into a rambling shambles as he has comprehensively failed to offer any sort of direction for it.
It's a disgrace, the thread is just drifting. Perhaps there just be a deadline put on when this thread will be closed. It's dragging on far too long and I'm sick of it.
The finger of blame only points in one direction.
Get it sorted!
Smmmuuuuuuurrrrrrfffff!!!!
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01-07-2011 12:54 PM #79This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
I don't know what your question is, but if you are asking how we are competing with teams of relevant size to ours, both Aberdeen & Hearts have far better records than us, over the time you have spent on this earth & both finished above us last season.
Our ground is better & we have our own training facilities, however, sadly since owing them, we have produced some of the worst displays that I've ever witnessed Hibs produce & as such our financial position is worsening year on year, with little assets to sell, to bail us out this time, therefore we need to get it right on the pitch to attract those fans you have little time for.
Hearts are not bankrupt & the debt is in the hands of Vlad, who knows where it'll end up, a crystal ball would be needed for that, however, Motherwell and several other teams are there plying their trade, with little evidence of recent financial mishap.
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01-07-2011 01:38 PM #80
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You can be as negative as you want about hibs, but I think our board have led us in a good direction. I agree last season was gash, the season before was decent, but the reality is both have passed. There has been significant changes on the pitch and I am hopeful that this is the start of investing on that front.
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01-07-2011 02:05 PM #81
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Following the 7-0 game Hibs finished 2nd that season and 2nd again the next followed by a third for season 75-76.Last edited by Kaiser1962; 01-07-2011 at 02:14 PM.
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01-07-2011 02:06 PM #82This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
Our present owner & his board didn't turn up five years ago, but over twenty, patience you say, it is nearly sixty years ago since we won the title & more than a hundred since the national cup, we are in a constant state of transition & like it or not, we are millions in debt & it's rising because of being unable to get things right on the park, I think it is you who is kidding yourself.
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01-07-2011 02:08 PM #83This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
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01-07-2011 02:30 PM #84
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I go back to my original point. Every club out with rangers and celtic would take our overall position as a club, if you dont see that you have lost it.
With regards winning the league, I think you need to sit down - even with your so called golden generation it was not going to happen...as best you can hold on to the "yeah but it might have". If the league is what you are after I think you would be better off spending the day...in fact the next 20 years in Ikea.
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01-07-2011 02:49 PM #85This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
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01-07-2011 03:03 PM #86This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
PS I've never ever been to IKEA & I don't know where the nearest one is to where I live, but I can tell you something, there's plenty of options for entertainment for me, at a fraction of the price of a trip to Edinburgh, to watch a dire football match, which is almost all that's been on offer at ER during the last 3-4 years.Last edited by Ray_; 01-07-2011 at 03:09 PM.
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01-07-2011 03:10 PM #87
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Settle for that now I think.
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01-07-2011 03:35 PM #88This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
Because of the injuries & suspensions, I'm not sure if the TT's played together again, the following match, Dundee Utd, Des Bremner made his debut at RB & Bobby Smith and Tony Higgins were others that made their debut during the second half of the season.
Onion was out over a year & by that time, Harper had joined and soon afterwards the exodus started.
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01-07-2011 03:51 PM #89
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