Hibs Casuals and The 2 books

[Monktonhall 7]

Firsly let me put my tin hat on.

Looking around the airport book shop a couple of weeks ago for something to read on the plane, I stumbled across a copy of "These Colours dont run", by Derek Dykes. A couple of years ago I read Hibs Boy, and was intrigued to see the difference, if any, in the stories. The other thought was that during the early 80s and through the 90s, I never missed many matches, home or away, and it would be good to reminisce. Overall there was lots of similarities between the 2 books, but TCDR had a lot more humour, even although the majority of the stories were about violence, as you would expect.

I actually enjoyed TCDR. It was light reading, mentioned loads of matches I'd attended, and brought back lots of memories. It got me thinking about how I reacted during the "casual" era, and although I was not part of it, it was suddenly fashionable to wear decent gear to matches, and stop wearing colours.
It seemed easier going to Ibrox, Parkhead, and Tynecastle with no colours, and there is no doubt that was due to the fact that although my mates and I were not associated with the casual movement, looking like them to opposing supporters was no bad thing, although you did get more attention from Stewards and Police. The other thing that got me on Derek Dykes side, was that he was at pains to stress that violence was almost always against other groups and pre- arranged. For me personally, attending many of the games he talks about, I honestly cant remember seeing much trouble.

So, how did I feel about the CCS? Probably glad that it seems to have disappeared, but left with a strange pride that they were seen as No.1, and that most of the guys who were part of it, have grown into men, and are still big Hibbys who attend the majority of the games.

Would be interesting to hear others views, and yes the tin hat is now securely fastened!.

[Ferryhibby]

The casual element was as he put, likeminded people engaging in a likeminded venture, i for one am happy these guys were around, saved me a couple of times, being in the wrong place at the wrong time, Aberdeen and Ibrox namely since the casuals came along they gave a certain security at games. I read both books and enjoyed them as well.

[Jack]

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The casual element was as he put, likeminded people engaging in a likeminded venture, i for one am happy these guys were around, saved me a couple of times, being in the wrong place at the wrong time, Aberdeen and Ibrox namely since the casuals came along they gave a certain security at games. I read both books and enjoyed them as well.

But then if there were no 'likeminded' folk on either side it would have been safer for the vast majority who were not likeminded.
.
Lets not kid ourselves these guys did football or Hibs any favours.

[Hibby D]

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But then if there were no 'likeminded' folk on either side it would have been safer for the vast majority who were not likeminded.
.
Lets not kid ourselves these guys did football or Hibs any favours.

The casuals will never get admiration or thanks from me - they spoiled football for me and hundreds of other Hibbies in the 80's

[heretoday]

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But then if there were no 'likeminded' folk on either side it would have been safer for the vast majority who were not likeminded.
.
Lets not kid ourselves these guys did football or Hibs any favours.

It's the old "East End of London was safer with the Krays about" syndrome isn't it?

Absolute nonsense. As if these morons had the ability or sensitivity to ensure innocent bystanders came to no harm.

[Carheenlea]

I have both books mentioned, and while they are both interesting enough reads in the sense that I was at many of the matches featured and am of that age when the casuals scene was at it`s peak in my youth, they are not the best books on the subject.

The best two books I have read on the subject are "Bloody Casuals" by Jay Allen, an Aberdeen casual, which was maybe the first book written on the subject, and did not have the sensationalism, exaggeration and even fantasy that seems to be the hallmark of the all too many books on the subject these days. The other one was "Among the Thugs", by Bill Buford, who was a journalist who got involved with English casuals and even the far right for a fascinating insight.

I was never into the casuals myself, a combination of lack of the sartorial style adopted, and having no bottle whatsoever for fighting ruled me out..

There was no doubt though, that visits to Ibrox and Celtic Park became safer outings for the travelling Hibs fans. The fact that the CCS had a big reputation was only really the half of it though, the heavier police presence when Hibs were in town was probably the main reason.

[Wembley67]

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I have both books mentioned, and while they are both interesting enough reads in the sense that I was at many of the matches featured and am of that age when the casuals scene was at it`s peak in my youth, they are not the best books on the subject.

The best two books I have read on the subject are "Bloody Casuals" by Jay Allen, an Aberdeen casual, which was maybe the first book written on the subject, and did not have the sensationalism, exaggeration and even fantasy that seems to be the hallmark of the all too many books on the subject these days. The other one was "Among the Thugs", by Bill Buford, who was a journalist who got involved with English casuals and even the far right for a fascinating insight.

I was never into the casuals myself, a combination of lack of the sartorial style adopted, and having no bottle whatsoever for fighting ruled me out..

There was no doubt though, that visits to Ibrox and Celtic Park became safer outings for the travelling Hibs fans. The fact that the CCS had a big reputation was only really the half of it though, the heavier police presence when Hibs were in town was probably the main reason.

With all respect how do you know bloody casuals wasn't sensationlised if you weren't involved. I could say that colours was the same and I wasn't involved either.

[Carheenlea]

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With all respect how do you know bloody casuals wasn't sensationlised if you weren't involved. I could say that colours was the same and I wasn't involved either.

Obviously I don`t, but I felt there was a bit of honesty about the book. Having read a few books on the subject, you could be reading the same book each time, as they seem to copy the writing style and adopt the tough-guy dialogue.

"Bloody Casuals" captured the scene in it`s infancy, and also focused a lot on the fashions, music and camaraderie, not just ugly violence. But of course, I can`t say for certain that the book was not sensationalised, it just didn`t feel that way to me.

[down-the-slope]

Those who could write with authority about the 'scene' in an engaging, thought provoking and stereotype challenging manner are very unlikely to ever do so as either / and it would be mis-interpreted / they would not want associated with that particular part of their past in that way........

[LaMotta]

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I have both books mentioned, and while they are both interesting enough reads in the sense that I was at many of the matches featured and am of that age when the casuals scene was at it`s peak in my youth, they are not the best books on the subject.

The best two books I have read on the subject are "Bloody Casuals" by Jay Allen, an Aberdeen casual, which was maybe the first book written on the subject, and did not have the sensationalism, exaggeration and even fantasy that seems to be the hallmark of the all too many books on the subject these days. The other one was "Among the Thugs", by Bill Buford, who was a journalist who got involved with English casuals and even the far right for a fascinating insight.

I was never into the casuals myself, a combination of lack of the sartorial style adopted, and having no bottle whatsoever for fighting ruled me out..

There was no doubt though, that visits to Ibrox and Celtic Park became safer outings for the travelling Hibs fans. The fact that the CCS had a big reputation was only really the half of it though, the heavier police presence when Hibs were in town was probably the main reason.

I read a book a while back by an Aberdeen Casual which was brilliant - think it might have been this one - talks fondly of the trip to Gothenburg for CWC Final (which sounded amazing) and he ended up in Jail for a bit as well (which sounded slightly less fun) ??

[Houchy]

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The casual element was as he put, likeminded people engaging in a likeminded venture, i for one am happy these guys were around, saved me a couple of times, being in the wrong place at the wrong time, Aberdeen and Ibrox namely since the casuals came along they gave a certain security at games. I read both books and enjoyed them as well.

Me too, I mind being in the Balgreen Fryer (or whatever it was caled back then) beside the wheatsheaf after the Aberdeen SC Semi at Tynie. I was only around 13/14 and there was about 10 Aberdeen fans started on me (just because I had a Hibs scarf on). 2 Hibs boys flattened the lot of them and for that I am gratefull. While I don't agree with the pre arranged stuff, they certainly looked after their own.

[M11BMO]

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Firsly let me put my tin hat on.

Looking around the airport book shop a couple of weeks ago for something to read on the plane, I stumbled across a copy of "These Colours dont run", by Derek Dykes. A couple of years ago I read Hibs Boy, and was intrigued to see the difference, if any, in the stories. The other thought was that during the early 80s and through the 90s, I never missed many matches, home or away, and it would be good to reminisce. Overall there was lots of similarities between the 2 books, but TCDR had a lot more humour, even although the majority of the stories were about violence, as you would expect.

I actually enjoyed TCDR. It was light reading, mentioned loads of matches I'd attended, and brought back lots of memories. It got me thinking about how I reacted during the "casual" era, and although I was not part of it, it was suddenly fashionable to wear decent gear to matches, and stop wearing colours.
It seemed easier going to Ibrox, Parkhead, and Tynecastle with no colours, and there is no doubt that was due to the fact that although my mates and I were not associated with the casual movement, looking like them to opposing supporters was no bad thing, although you did get more attention from Stewards and Police. The other thing that got me on Derek Dykes side, was that he was at pains to stress that violence was almost always against other groups and pre- arranged. For me personally, attending many of the games he talks about, I honestly cant remember seeing much trouble.

So, how did I feel about the CCS? Probably glad that it seems to have disappeared, but left with a strange pride that they were seen as No.1, and that most of the guys who were part of it, have grown into men, and are still big Hibbys who attend the majority of the games.

Would be interesting to hear others views, and yes the tin hat is now securely fastened!.

I wouldn't say that it has disappeared. There are still plenty off arranged fights involving the CCS (i.e Motherwell away 4 weeks ago). In no way near the level that it used to be.... but it still happens.

[clerriehibs]

Admin, shouldn't this be NHC? The casuals had f'all to do with Hibs. If Hibs hadn't been around, or even football itself, your average bunch of delinquents, educated or otherwise, would've found something else they could attach their thuggery to, wanted or not.

[joe breezy]

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Admin, shouldn't this be NHC? The casuals had f'all to do with Hibs. If Hibs hadn't been around, or even football itself, your average bunch of delinquents, educated or otherwise, would've found something else they could attach their thuggery to, wanted or not.

I disagree, I've only been in trouble through football in the 80s, all involving Hibs other than a couple of Scotland games

[Dashing Bob S]

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Admin, shouldn't this be NHC? The casuals had f'all to do with Hibs. If Hibs hadn't been around, or even football itself, your average bunch of delinquents, educated or otherwise, would've found something else they could attach their thuggery to, wanted or not.

Disagree with this. Everybody is different. Some would certainly look for bother anywhere, others it would make no sense to do so outside the context of football.

The truth is that football and hooliganism have been inextricably linked in this country from day one. That's not to justify it; merely to state a historical fact.

[scoopyboy]

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Admin, shouldn't this be NHC? The casuals had f'all to do with Hibs. If Hibs hadn't been around, or even football itself, your average bunch of delinquents, educated or otherwise, would've found something else they could attach their thuggery to, wanted or not.

If they were season ticket holders (and the vast majority were / still are) then I would argue they have definitely to do with Hibs.

If Hibs season ticket holders have f'all to do with Hibs then who does?

[clerriehibs]

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If they were season ticket holders (and the vast majority were / still are) then I would argue they have definitely to do with Hibs.

If Hibs season ticket holders have f'all to do with Hibs then who does?

because they were/are thugs looking for a scrap. Whatever Hibs might describe themselves as, they will never describe themselves as a focal point for thugs to do what thugs do. The thugs have f'all to do with Hibs.

By your reasoning; some guy goes to a Hibs game, gets bladdered, drives home, knocks over some kid, and has his Hibs season ticket in his back pocket. What's that got to do with Hibs? That's right, f'all.

[joe breezy]

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because they were/are thugs looking for a scrap. Whatever Hibs might describe themselves as, they will never describe themselves as a focal point for thugs to do what thugs do. The thugs have f'all to do with Hibs.

By your reasoning; some guy goes to a Hibs game, gets bladdered, drives home, knocks over some kid, and has his Hibs season ticket in his back pocket. What's that got to do with Hibs? That's right, f'all.

Different perceptions of what football meant back then I suppose.
The backdrop was that football hooliganism was commonplace, not right but it was a different time. Football specials, scarves tied on wrists, men singing get your tits out for the lads any time they saw a female and pissing in the streets.

The alternative was looking great, getting to Glasgow, and standing up for yourselves and getting a result regardless of how the team did. I know which one I preferred.

[Iggy Pope]

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because they were/are thugs looking for a scrap. Whatever Hibs might describe themselves as, they will never describe themselves as a focal point for thugs to do what thugs do. The thugs have f'all to do with Hibs.

By your reasoning; some guy goes to a Hibs game, gets bladdered, drives home, knocks over some kid, and has his Hibs season ticket in his back pocket. What's that got to do with Hibs? That's right, f'all.

That is not 'reasoning'.That is a blethering over reaction that ignores the point made.

[1two]

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because they were/are thugs looking for a scrap. Whatever Hibs might describe themselves as, they will never describe themselves as a focal point for thugs to do what thugs do. The thugs have f'all to do with Hibs.

By your reasoning; some guy goes to a Hibs game, gets bladdered, drives home, knocks over some kid, and has his Hibs season ticket in his back pocket. What's that got to do with Hibs? That's right, f'all.

The ccs had f'all to do with football but a lot to do with hibs!

[frazeHFC]

I was not around in the days when hooliganism was at large but after reading the books and seeing programmes on Hibs casuals, i also, without condoning violence, find it an interesting topic and also have a slight bit of admiration and pride in the fact ours were known to be one of the most feared.

My tin hat is also getting put on!

[Keith_M]

Football hooliganism has been around a lot longer than the beginning of the casuals.

The only difference I know of is that, prior to the CCS, Hibs fans just weren't very good at it