Hibs Casuals and The 2 books

[Monktonhall 7]

Firsly let me put my tin hat on.

Looking around the airport book shop a couple of weeks ago for something to read on the plane, I stumbled across a copy of "These Colours dont run", by Derek Dykes. A couple of years ago I read Hibs Boy, and was intrigued to see the difference, if any, in the stories. The other thought was that during the early 80s and through the 90s, I never missed many matches, home or away, and it would be good to reminisce. Overall there was lots of similarities between the 2 books, but TCDR had a lot more humour, even although the majority of the stories were about violence, as you would expect.

I actually enjoyed TCDR. It was light reading, mentioned loads of matches I'd attended, and brought back lots of memories. It got me thinking about how I reacted during the "casual" era, and although I was not part of it, it was suddenly fashionable to wear decent gear to matches, and stop wearing colours.
It seemed easier going to Ibrox, Parkhead, and Tynecastle with no colours, and there is no doubt that was due to the fact that although my mates and I were not associated with the casual movement, looking like them to opposing supporters was no bad thing, although you did get more attention from Stewards and Police. The other thing that got me on Derek Dykes side, was that he was at pains to stress that violence was almost always against other groups and pre- arranged. For me personally, attending many of the games he talks about, I honestly cant remember seeing much trouble.

So, how did I feel about the CCS? Probably glad that it seems to have disappeared, but left with a strange pride that they were seen as No.1, and that most of the guys who were part of it, have grown into men, and are still big Hibbys who attend the majority of the games.

Would be interesting to hear others views, and yes the tin hat is now securely fastened!.

[Ferryhibby]

The casual element was as he put, likeminded people engaging in a likeminded venture, i for one am happy these guys were around, saved me a couple of times, being in the wrong place at the wrong time, Aberdeen and Ibrox namely since the casuals came along they gave a certain security at games. I read both books and enjoyed them as well.

[Jack]

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The casual element was as he put, likeminded people engaging in a likeminded venture, i for one am happy these guys were around, saved me a couple of times, being in the wrong place at the wrong time, Aberdeen and Ibrox namely since the casuals came along they gave a certain security at games. I read both books and enjoyed them as well.

But then if there were no 'likeminded' folk on either side it would have been safer for the vast majority who were not likeminded.
.
Lets not kid ourselves these guys did football or Hibs any favours.

[Carheenlea]

I have both books mentioned, and while they are both interesting enough reads in the sense that I was at many of the matches featured and am of that age when the casuals scene was at it`s peak in my youth, they are not the best books on the subject.

The best two books I have read on the subject are "Bloody Casuals" by Jay Allen, an Aberdeen casual, which was maybe the first book written on the subject, and did not have the sensationalism, exaggeration and even fantasy that seems to be the hallmark of the all too many books on the subject these days. The other one was "Among the Thugs", by Bill Buford, who was a journalist who got involved with English casuals and even the far right for a fascinating insight.

I was never into the casuals myself, a combination of lack of the sartorial style adopted, and having no bottle whatsoever for fighting ruled me out..

There was no doubt though, that visits to Ibrox and Celtic Park became safer outings for the travelling Hibs fans. The fact that the CCS had a big reputation was only really the half of it though, the heavier police presence when Hibs were in town was probably the main reason.

[Wembley67]

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I have both books mentioned, and while they are both interesting enough reads in the sense that I was at many of the matches featured and am of that age when the casuals scene was at it`s peak in my youth, they are not the best books on the subject.

The best two books I have read on the subject are "Bloody Casuals" by Jay Allen, an Aberdeen casual, which was maybe the first book written on the subject, and did not have the sensationalism, exaggeration and even fantasy that seems to be the hallmark of the all too many books on the subject these days. The other one was "Among the Thugs", by Bill Buford, who was a journalist who got involved with English casuals and even the far right for a fascinating insight.

I was never into the casuals myself, a combination of lack of the sartorial style adopted, and having no bottle whatsoever for fighting ruled me out..

There was no doubt though, that visits to Ibrox and Celtic Park became safer outings for the travelling Hibs fans. The fact that the CCS had a big reputation was only really the half of it though, the heavier police presence when Hibs were in town was probably the main reason.

With all respect how do you know bloody casuals wasn't sensationlised if you weren't involved. I could say that colours was the same and I wasn't involved either.

[Carheenlea]

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With all respect how do you know bloody casuals wasn't sensationlised if you weren't involved. I could say that colours was the same and I wasn't involved either.

Obviously I don`t, but I felt there was a bit of honesty about the book. Having read a few books on the subject, you could be reading the same book each time, as they seem to copy the writing style and adopt the tough-guy dialogue.

"Bloody Casuals" captured the scene in it`s infancy, and also focused a lot on the fashions, music and camaraderie, not just ugly violence. But of course, I can`t say for certain that the book was not sensationalised, it just didn`t feel that way to me.

[down-the-slope]

Those who could write with authority about the 'scene' in an engaging, thought provoking and stereotype challenging manner are very unlikely to ever do so as either / and it would be mis-interpreted / they would not want associated with that particular part of their past in that way........

[Greentinted]

Having read a good few of the books in the so-called 'hooly-lit' genre, THIS is one that stands out for me. (Although in fairness it is more of a thesis)

[DC_Hibs]

My mate Freddie Fishcakes (retired SAS) used to run the CCS training camps in Princes St Gardens back in the day. He reckons some of these "Hibernian soldiers" would give the cream of British special forces a run for their money in most methods of combat and were also on a par with Danny Dyer, Ross Kemp and the likes when it came to basic street fighting.

By the way mere mortals, he knows what he's talking about and doesnt give praise lightly.

p.s He reckons this site is absolute mince.

[LaMotta]

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I have both books mentioned, and while they are both interesting enough reads in the sense that I was at many of the matches featured and am of that age when the casuals scene was at it`s peak in my youth, they are not the best books on the subject.

The best two books I have read on the subject are "Bloody Casuals" by Jay Allen, an Aberdeen casual, which was maybe the first book written on the subject, and did not have the sensationalism, exaggeration and even fantasy that seems to be the hallmark of the all too many books on the subject these days. The other one was "Among the Thugs", by Bill Buford, who was a journalist who got involved with English casuals and even the far right for a fascinating insight.

I was never into the casuals myself, a combination of lack of the sartorial style adopted, and having no bottle whatsoever for fighting ruled me out..

There was no doubt though, that visits to Ibrox and Celtic Park became safer outings for the travelling Hibs fans. The fact that the CCS had a big reputation was only really the half of it though, the heavier police presence when Hibs were in town was probably the main reason.

I read a book a while back by an Aberdeen Casual which was brilliant - think it might have been this one - talks fondly of the trip to Gothenburg for CWC Final (which sounded amazing) and he ended up in Jail for a bit as well (which sounded slightly less fun) ??

[jabis]

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My mate Freddie Fishcakes (retired SAS) used to run the CCS training camps in Princes St Gardens back in the day. He reckons some of these "Hibernian soldiers" would give the cream of British special forces a run for their money in most methods of combat and were also on a par with Danny Dyer, Ross Kemp and the likes when it came to basic street fighting.

By the way mere mortals, he knows what he's talking about and doesnt give praise lightly.

p.s He reckons this site is absolute mince.

sometimes you don't know weather to laugh or cry

[Peevemor]

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My mate Freddie Fishcakes (retired SAS) used to run the CCS training camps in Princes St Gardens back in the day. He reckons some of these "Hibernian soldiers" would give the cream of British special forces a run for their money in most methods of combat and were also on a par with Danny Dyer, Ross Kemp and the likes when it came to basic street fighting.

By the way mere mortals, he knows what he's talking about and doesnt give praise lightly.

p.s He reckons this site is absolute mince.

[Hibby D]

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But then if there were no 'likeminded' folk on either side it would have been safer for the vast majority who were not likeminded.
.
Lets not kid ourselves these guys did football or Hibs any favours.

The casuals will never get admiration or thanks from me - they spoiled football for me and hundreds of other Hibbies in the 80's

[Sergy Pie]

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My mate Freddie Fishcakes (retired SAS) used to run the CCS training camps in Princes St Gardens back in the day. He reckons some of these "Hibernian soldiers" would give the cream of British special forces a run for their money in most methods of combat and were also on a par with Danny Dyer, Ross Kemp and the likes when it came to basic street fighting.

By the way mere mortals, he knows what he's talking about and doesnt give praise lightly.

p.s He reckons this site is absolute mince.

[Twa Cairpets]

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My mate Freddie Fishcakes (retired SAS) used to run the CCS training camps in Princes St Gardens back in the day. He reckons some of these "Hibernian soldiers" would give the cream of British special forces a run for their money in most methods of combat and were also on a par with Danny Dyer, Ross Kemp and the likes when it came to basic street fighting.

By the way mere mortals, he knows what he's talking about and doesnt give praise lightly.

p.s He reckons this site is absolute mince.

Is this post for real?

[nonshinyfinish]

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Is this post for real?

Surely the Danny Dyer/Ross Kemp bit makes it clear that it isn't?

[lucky]

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Is this post for real?

Are you for real ? come on, a training camp in Princess street gardens

[Greentinted]

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Surely the Danny Dyer/Ross Kemp bit makes it clear that it isn't?

Yup that sealed it, I was a wee bitty undecided with SAS gadgey Fishcakes.

[joe breezy]

Phil Thronton's book Casuals also has a Hibs contribution by Cameron C Strachan

[Twa Cairpets]

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Are you for real ? come on, a training camp in Princess street gardens

Ah, good point well made - too early for me...

[Judas Iscariot]

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Is this post for real?

Whooooooooooooooosh

[Hibernia Na Eir]

thought both books were good and told it how it was.

We could do with one more book though, till fill the gap on the B.B.C. years

[heretoday]

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But then if there were no 'likeminded' folk on either side it would have been safer for the vast majority who were not likeminded.
.
Lets not kid ourselves these guys did football or Hibs any favours.

It's the old "East End of London was safer with the Krays about" syndrome isn't it?

Absolute nonsense. As if these morons had the ability or sensitivity to ensure innocent bystanders came to no harm.

[M11BMO]

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Firsly let me put my tin hat on.

Looking around the airport book shop a couple of weeks ago for something to read on the plane, I stumbled across a copy of "These Colours dont run", by Derek Dykes. A couple of years ago I read Hibs Boy, and was intrigued to see the difference, if any, in the stories. The other thought was that during the early 80s and through the 90s, I never missed many matches, home or away, and it would be good to reminisce. Overall there was lots of similarities between the 2 books, but TCDR had a lot more humour, even although the majority of the stories were about violence, as you would expect.

I actually enjoyed TCDR. It was light reading, mentioned loads of matches I'd attended, and brought back lots of memories. It got me thinking about how I reacted during the "casual" era, and although I was not part of it, it was suddenly fashionable to wear decent gear to matches, and stop wearing colours.
It seemed easier going to Ibrox, Parkhead, and Tynecastle with no colours, and there is no doubt that was due to the fact that although my mates and I were not associated with the casual movement, looking like them to opposing supporters was no bad thing, although you did get more attention from Stewards and Police. The other thing that got me on Derek Dykes side, was that he was at pains to stress that violence was almost always against other groups and pre- arranged. For me personally, attending many of the games he talks about, I honestly cant remember seeing much trouble.

So, how did I feel about the CCS? Probably glad that it seems to have disappeared, but left with a strange pride that they were seen as No.1, and that most of the guys who were part of it, have grown into men, and are still big Hibbys who attend the majority of the games.

Would be interesting to hear others views, and yes the tin hat is now securely fastened!.

I wouldn't say that it has disappeared. There are still plenty off arranged fights involving the CCS (i.e Motherwell away 4 weeks ago). In no way near the level that it used to be.... but it still happens.

[clerriehibs]

Admin, shouldn't this be NHC? The casuals had f'all to do with Hibs. If Hibs hadn't been around, or even football itself, your average bunch of delinquents, educated or otherwise, would've found something else they could attach their thuggery to, wanted or not.

[joe breezy]

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Admin, shouldn't this be NHC? The casuals had f'all to do with Hibs. If Hibs hadn't been around, or even football itself, your average bunch of delinquents, educated or otherwise, would've found something else they could attach their thuggery to, wanted or not.

I disagree, I've only been in trouble through football in the 80s, all involving Hibs other than a couple of Scotland games

[Dashing Bob S]

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Admin, shouldn't this be NHC? The casuals had f'all to do with Hibs. If Hibs hadn't been around, or even football itself, your average bunch of delinquents, educated or otherwise, would've found something else they could attach their thuggery to, wanted or not.

Disagree with this. Everybody is different. Some would certainly look for bother anywhere, others it would make no sense to do so outside the context of football.

The truth is that football and hooliganism have been inextricably linked in this country from day one. That's not to justify it; merely to state a historical fact.

[Beefster]

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My mate Freddie Fishcakes (retired SAS) used to run the CCS training camps in Princes St Gardens back in the day. He reckons some of these "Hibernian soldiers" would give the cream of British special forces a run for their money in most methods of combat and were also on a par with Danny Dyer, Ross Kemp and the likes when it came to basic street fighting.

By the way mere mortals, he knows what he's talking about and doesnt give praise lightly.

p.s He reckons this site is absolute mince.

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Is this post for real?

I though DC's post was the funniest thing I had read all day until I saw your post, TwoCarpets!

[Hibercelona]

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My mate Freddie Fishcakes (retired SAS) used to run the CCS training camps in Princes St Gardens back in the day. He reckons some of these "Hibernian soldiers" would give the cream of British special forces a run for their money in most methods of combat and were also on a par with Danny Dyer, Ross Kemp and the likes when it came to basic street fighting.

By the way mere mortals, he knows what he's talking about and doesnt give praise lightly.

p.s He reckons this site is absolute mince.

[scoopyboy]

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Admin, shouldn't this be NHC? The casuals had f'all to do with Hibs. If Hibs hadn't been around, or even football itself, your average bunch of delinquents, educated or otherwise, would've found something else they could attach their thuggery to, wanted or not.

If they were season ticket holders (and the vast majority were / still are) then I would argue they have definitely to do with Hibs.

If Hibs season ticket holders have f'all to do with Hibs then who does?